"Superman" in the ring

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Has the fate of Superman Returns been decided already? Or are the judges still evaluating the boxing match of emotion and opinion that's happening in the ring as we speak? There's a lot of love out there, a lot of passion...but the naysayers keep nipping away. I can't quite tell what's happening, but it feels iffy.

A clearly eccentric middle-aged guy was in Tower Video's Sunset Strip store yesterday ranting about what a piece of shit it was (he'd seen a Wednesday noon show) and that the '78 Donner version was far superior. Older guys are always saying that older versions are better, so why am I even mentioning what this douchebag said? Because the guy wouldn't shut up -- he was deeply turned off. I looked out the window and thought to myself, "Superman is fighting for his life out there...right now." A rival studio extimated that Superman Returns did $14.7 million on Wednesday, give or take. If that's half-accurate, Thursday's $11 million-plus earnings means a $3 million-plus dropoff. I'm still predicting $100 to $110 million by the evening of 7.4, and earnings somewhere in the mid to high 20s over the 7.7 Pirates 2 weekend, and then diminishing returns over the remainder of July. Hello, Paris, Madrid, Rome, London...Helsinki!

comment #1

craptastic says ...

S.R. was wonderful! I saw the original Reeve movies in the theater and I thought it was everything I wanted from a Superman movie and more. The acting was fantastic (took a little while for Kate to grow on me-- but she got me about 1/3 through), the story was touching (no one can watch that last moment between Supes and son and not get a LITTLE watery), the effects were great... it has one of the best action sequences since the pods burst out of the ground in NJ last summer... I don't understand what people are BITCHING about?!? So Superman didn't beat the shit out of some giant robot every ten minutes... Is that what all of you bashers want? If so... rent a Michael Bay film and shut the fuck up. Make my super heroes complex! That's what I say!

comment #2

lesterg says ...

I don't deny I've been a nay-sayer in terms of Superman's BO prospects. But if you told me a month ago that X3 would make more in three days than Superman could in 5 (and possibly 6 or 7) - I'd say you were nuts.

comment #3

craptastic says ...

Oh yeah... and if you didn't get upset when Lex was kicking the shit out of Superman... or when he fell from space to the earth... you're a commie, pinko, unemotional bastard.

comment #4

oddDuck says ...

It does look like X3 is going to outperform Superman, and that depresses me greatly because it means more power to the Ratners of the world and less interesting movies for the rest of us.

comment #5

ArchiveGuy says ...

" I looked out the window and thought to myself, 'Superman is fighting for his life out there...right now.' "

:sniff: All it needs is an Alan Silvestri score. Did anyone approach you and ask why you seemed so wistfully poetic?

comment #6

Devin C says ...

How could people bash this movie? The Donner films were good but I felt empty and disconnected in a way (a lesser one) that Wells felt about Pirates II. At the sametime I concede that I liked the films (not loved). Superman Returns added incredible special effects and more importantly heart. Heart is a rare element in big blockbusters these days. The only real reason people are bashing this is because everyone is so goddamn nostalgic these days. Everything was better before. Can't we appreciate the past and the forward movements we are currently making every minute. Open your minds and start going to movies that actually mean something and have a purpose.

comment #7

Jeffrey Wells says ...

Wells to Archive Guy: I wasn't feeling wistful or poetic at that moment. I was feeling disturbed. That middle-aged guy irritated me, but he also gave me concern. Linking a sentence I've written to an Alan Silvestri score is a truly profound insult. Maybe I deserve it, but thanks a lot all the same.

comment #8

Shawn says ...

Well at least David Poland is happy. "Me right for once! Me hate Superman and love Pirates! Me can't wait for Dreamgirls -- I've already my glowing review!"

Excuse me while I go throw up.

comment #9

says ...

Was it the Back to the Future theme?

comment #10

ArchiveGuy says ...

OK, the Silvestri jab was a low-blow, but the expression of that particular sentence was unquestionably cheeseball (even if you didn't intend it that way).

I wouldn't worry too much about Supes. He's faced worse than the curse of overinflated expectations...

comment #11

Zach says ...

I agree with Oddduck. If X3 makes more than Superman Returns I will have lost a lot of faith in American moviegoers. Superman Returns is a far, far, far superior film. Maybe its the WB marketing department that screwed up?

I'm looking forward to seeing Superman again. I think it will do well at the box office but I'm surprised at all the negative internet buzz. Everyone I saw it with LOVED IT!!

comment #12

travis b. says ...

i'm still not seeing what the rose color view of the original Superman is all about. it does not hold up well with repeat viewings. i know it was building up for the second one but it loses momentum after the night flying scene with Superman and Lois. to me, Superman Returns builds upon the groundwork sort of haphazardly laid out by Donner/Lester in Superman I & II. great film..and definitely the best i've seen so far this summer.

comment #13

NYCBusybody says ...

I've always found it amusing that everytime a movie that an individual likes doesn't do well, they've "lost faith in the American moviegoer".

Who hasn't lost most faith in most people by now?

Besides, as I've said all along, this movie would fail for one reason: Richard Kind should have been Superman.

comment #14

NYCBusybody says ...

Honestly, I think the box-office may suffer simply because people are waiting for Pirates 2.

Plus, I think it'll do well internationally. Marketing Superman in front of a globe rather than an American flag, or even just downplaying his American-ness-esque-osity, will hurt in the Heartland, but play big in France and Djibouti, or wherever else they hate us so.

comment #15

Rich says ...

I'm not sure the "disappointing" box office results for SR can be chalked up to quality or lack thereof. We live in a world where movies just don't have legs any more. The movie makes the majority of its boxoffice in the first weekend, and then quickly tapers off while everyone else waits for DVD. There are exceptions, but that's the way it works for tentpoles.

X-Men III benefited because it followed two very well-received movies and it looked like more of the same. Most casual moviegoers don't follow the fanboy obsession with Ratner/Singer. They just want to see Wolverine rip stuff up.

Contrast that with SR. It stars a newcomer surrounded by a talented, but offbeat, cast. It's about a character that hadn't been on the big screen in more than two decades and is decidedly "old school" when compared to the X-Men. The fact that it is deliberately paced and "about something" may have actually worked against it.

I wouldn't critcize the moviegoing public as much as Warners' publicity department. Jeff commented on the poor advance tracking numbers, so the "must see" factor wasn't out there. And now people are enjoying the movie, but not being "wowed" by it. Sounds a lot like King Kong, right? And then add the fact that it's, again, really freakin' long, and it is what it is. It's not a triumph of the crappy movie. It's history repeating itself.

comment #16

Zach says ...

NYCBusybody,

Did you SEE X3?!?

If that mess makes me more than Superman Returns, I will be disheartened for sure. I think Superman's boxoffice numbers will pick up this weekend. I certainly hope so.

comment #17

Mathew says ...

Wasn't Superman originally conceived as a 'red state' kind of Superhero? I mean his home town is Smallville which could of been the same town a 'Bob Dole' grew up in. He 'used' to fight for the American Way (now it's just "all that other stuff")...

Something happened though between the masculine George Reeves Superman and now the rather effeminate Brandon Routh Superman. Perhaps some of the dislike of the current Superman is because the evolution of the character has felt more and more like a betrayal. Watch a couple of those 30's and 40's Superman cartoons that are available for free on iTunes via Vintage ToonCast to see what I mean.

comment #18

Zach says ...

Rich, I think you make some good points. The Warner marketing department might want to retool the way they handle a movie like this. I loved the film and so did my friends, but I know plenty of people who didn't even realize this movie was coming out.

Also, I can't believe there were so many posters and other advertisements that had June 30th after they changed it to the 28th!!!

However, I still think the numbers will be strong this weekend and we'll know more on Monday.

comment #19

says ...

The guy is a douchebag because he disagrees with your opinion? Get a grip on yourself.

comment #20

Colin says ...

From everything I've seen and heard, this sounds like a repeat of X-Men. Sure, some people love it and some people hate it, but it seems like most people think that it was a solid movie that should serve as a decent foundation for sequels.

There are some things that work great, other things that don't really connect, and a couple of elliptical things that hopefully will be fleshed out on DVD (Will we see Superman Returns 1.5?). Removed from the shackles of the origin/"re-origin" story, Singer will have a good shot to make a 2nd film that improves on the first one.

In terms of box office, it will likely do solid, but not eye popping business (of course, with the respective budgets, this makes X-Men more successful).

comment #21

lesterg says ...

Zach/Matthew,

If this goes the way it is looking, I don't think the folks currently working at WB's marketing department are going to be an issue much longer. Poseidon + an underpeforming Superman = get your resume ready.

comment #22

Nag says ...

I don't think that SR will do bigger numbers than Pirates, but I think people are cutting it short.

Today is Friday. I know a lot of people who havn't seen it yet and are planning on seeing it this weekend. If it has the heart that you say it has, then that aspect of the film will spread as well.

Keep in mind, even if the film were awful it would be financially well off cause it's Superman (which is on the level a fucking institution to some people). There's a group that will definitely go to see this film twice.

My guess is Pirates will open big and that SR will creep up after it to win some more people over. Besides---what's opening after Pirates?

comment #23

delbomber says ...

I'm about as big a Superman fan as one can be without being deemed a fanboy, and I have yet to see the movie. I know TONS of people who are waiting for the weekend because they either work, like myself, or want to see it *with* their kids. I'm not in the box office prognosticating business, but I'd be willing to bet numbers will pleasantly surprise those rooting for the man of...ok, enough with these monikers.

comment #24

Billy Cash says ...

Superman will not do the B.O. that X3 will do and in the big scheme of things who should really give a f*ck about how much money a movie makes? I mean do I really care that MacDonalds has over 32 billion served. Do I really care if Walmart shipped 3,200 units of Whirlpool shower heads last week. If Superman does 11 million tomorrow or 9 million tomorrow will that affect my ability to make my car payment next month. This obsession with box office is a sad reflection of how damn shallow you people are. Get a life. How about watch RULES OF THE GAME or TROUBLE IN PARADISE or SHAMPOO. Flashback to 1976.... "Oh shit, man SHAMPOO only did 800,000 in Box Office this weekend and CAR WASH did 3 million. Damn, what does this mean?"

comment #25

Billy Cash says ...

Superman will not do the B.O. that X3 will do and in the big scheme of things who should really give a f*ck about how much money a movie makes? I mean do I really care that MacDonalds has over 32 billion served. Do I really care if Walmart shipped 3,200 units of Whirlpool shower heads last week. If Superman does 11 million tomorrow or 9 million tomorrow will that affect my ability to make my car payment next month. This obsession with box office is a sad reflection of how damn shallow you people are. Get a life. How about watch RULES OF THE GAME or TROUBLE IN PARADISE or SHAMPOO. Flashback to 1976.... "Oh shit, man SHAMPOO only did 800,000 in Box Office this weekend and CAR WASH did 3 million. Damn, what does this mean?"

comment #26

Billy Cash says ...

Superman will not do the B.O. that X3 will do and in the big scheme of things who should really give a f*ck about how much money a movie makes? I mean do I really care that MacDonalds has over 32 billion served. Do I really care if Walmart shipped 3,200 units of Whirlpool shower heads last week. If Superman does 11 million tomorrow or 9 million tomorrow will that affect my ability to make my car payment next month. This obsession with box office is a sad reflection of how damn shallow you people are. Get a life. How about watch RULES OF THE GAME or TROUBLE IN PARADISE or SHAMPOO. Flashback to 1976.... "Oh shit, man SHAMPOO only did 800,000 in Box Office this weekend and CAR WASH did 3 million. Damn, what does this mean?"

comment #27

Josh Ehrnwald says ...

"A clearly eccentric middle-aged guy was in Tower Video's Sunset Strip store yesterday ranting about what a piece of shit it was (he'd seen a Wednesday noon show) and that the '78 Donner vesion was far superior."

AKA: "Cat-Piss Man."

Sounds to me like one of those 50-year-old comic book nerds for whom personal hygiene is rather low on the lifestyle totem pole (read: "eccentric"), who still have to order every single last "Iron Man" and "Incredible Hulk" title every single month, who have no sex life (or who date fellow -- and frequently overweight -- comic book nerds/SCA women who collect elf statuettes), and who hold public court on all things nerd-ish in places like Tower Records and Barnes & Noble.

These people can quote from the past 60 years of "Superman" continuity as if it were as vitally important as the 9/11 commission report, and who are pissed off that *THEY* weren't placed in charge of screenwriting and/or directing the flick, instead of Bryan Singer.

"Cat-Piss Men"...know them. Fear them.

comment #28

Billy Cash says ...

Superman will not do the B.O. that X3 will do and in the big scheme of things who should really give a f*ck about how much money a movie makes? I mean do I really care that MacDonalds has over 32 billion served. Do I really care if Walmart shipped 3,200 units of Whirlpool shower heads last week. If Superman does 11 million tomorrow or 9 million tomorrow will that affect my ability to make my car payment next month. This obsession with box office is a sad reflection of how damn shallow you people are. Get a life. How about watch RULES OF THE GAME or TROUBLE IN PARADISE or SHAMPOO. Flashback to 1976.... "Oh shit, man SHAMPOO only did 800,000 in Box Office this weekend and CAR WASH did 3 million. Damn, what does this mean?"

comment #29

travis b. says ...

man, billy cash is really hammering his point home ;-)

comment #30

Matt says ...

Somebody save me! I really wanted to like this movie - I've been obsessing about it for nearly two years, visiting websites at all hours of the day and night, saving every clip, trailer or commercial and even showed up at the theater in a new \S/ shirt. Sadly, I was underwhelmed. There were some shining moments, but overall the movie felt like a collection of poorly sewn together pieces of a quilt. Maybe my expectations were too high and I was over-exposed to spoilers, but after this long of a wait and so many millions of dollars I think fans deserved better. At the end of the day I think this film was a servant with too many masters (a fact proven by the more than 20 different commercials that aired during everything from the NBA finals to Oprah). It tried to be too many things to too many different market segments and, much like Superman, had no emotional core. Batman Begins took a simple recipe and added flavor to it. Superman Returns tried to make a Cobb Salad with whatever happened to be in the fridge. Superman should have been a 32 ounce steak.

comment #31

nola says ...

I loved X2 can't stand Ratner so passed on X3. I was looking forward to Supes until I saw the cast. I know JW says it's about something but I am having a very hard time get past cardboard, wimpy looking Brandon, over the top Spacey and a Lois Lane who looks like she's in high school. This movie was so expensive, I'm not sure how they will justify a sequel. Other than the development costs for the aborted earlier versions, why was this movie so much more expensive then the Spidey or X movies?

comment #32

Zach says ...

Nola,

"Other than the development costs for the aborted earlier versions, why was this movie so much more expensive then the Spidey or X movies?"

It wasn't. X3 cost over 200 million. The actual production budget for Superman Returns came in just over $200 million. It was originally budgeted at $184 million, but Singer convinced WB to spend a little extra so that they could add a couple of extra effects shots (like the awesome bullet to the eye scene).

comment #33

Greg says ...

People concerned with X3 besting SR:

It has nothing to do with quality. It's the X-MEN for Pete's sake! There's a demand for them. As far as I can tell, the only people pounding the table for Superman to return to the screen were WB execs.

Superman's not just fighting for his life as a movie but as a character. He's too simple, our world too complex.

Sadly, eliminating "... the American Way." does not a modern-hero make.

comment #34

J. Huff says ...

I think there is one big issue that nobody seems to be dealing with...was anybody clamoring for another version of Superman? Nobody was really saying, "This is a story that needs to be retold." I liked the first two films when I was a kid, but so what? I'm not in line to see it now. I'll rent it, I'm sure, but beyond that...eh. I needed a new Superman as much as I needed a 3-hour King Kong.

comment #35

Devin C says ...

Quick sidenote- All of you people taking shots at Brandon Routh obviously have not done your research or seen the movie. Brandon Routh put on 20 to 25 pounds and everyone involved with the Superman franchise states that Routh's muscles overshadow the muscles of Reeve. He is flat out ripped. Don't take shots unless you know what the hell you are talking about and if you still need a bigger super-hero go buy the dvd for The Hulk or The Fantastic Four. Those movies are probably more on your level.

comment #36

supermanisgay says ...

I couldn't believe how bad superman returns was. I was so upset after it ended. Everyone in the movie seemed to be underperforming their parts. Spacey was the only guy who seemed to be adding a little magic here and there but overall he fell short.
Before i saw the movie i had read some pretty negative reviews, and some positive ones, that also had negative remarks here and there. I was kind of upset that critics were trying to destroy the movie in their way, and didnt believe that the movie could be as bad as what they were saying... boy was i wrong.
The story is supposed to have this emotional level to it which fell flat. I'm obviously talking about superman and lois lane. There was no passion in their romance. They had one scene where he takes her flying and that was so underwhelming. Seriously the emotional story was so bad written.. IN fact the whole movie was badly written. Too much time wasted on bullshit. I cant think of any good scenes that happened. Lex's plot to destroy the world was a pretty lame event. And then superman in the hospital was the biggest jack off cliche scene ive ever seen.
I'm guessing, like xmen, brian singer is setting up for a sequel, hopefully a good one. I thought xmen 2 was awesome and had really high hopes but superman let me down so much, im surprised any one is giving it more credit than xmen 3! At least brett rattner seems to have accepted his hackyness. Im not saying that bryan singer is a hack, but, this is suspicious. The way he handled this movie its like it was too much for him, the budget and everything. All the characters reminded me of mindless drones saying lines that made me think they were empty inside. And his writers couldnt hack it either...

I dont know if you guys know about brian singer, im talking about him being a homosexual...
Has anyone noticed that in all his recent xmen and now superman movies, he adds these "pretty boys" here and there. Lex's group of pretty boys? ummm? I know he likes to seduce young boys, especially film school kids and actors by giving them jobs and small roles and in return he gets to fuck em.
Sorry my post had to go this way but Bryan singer pissed me off so much with this superman movie... all the hype, all the expectations, all the hope....He has to pay.... ask someone who knows him or of him they will tell you im right. For example Dan Harris the writer on superman and xmen, he's in his mid 20's, he was a driver for bryan on xmen1 and then bryan made him a writer after supposedly telling him some ideas he had... And then Harris wrote and directed "imaginary heroes" in which the kid in the movie sleeps with his best friend , a guy... point is, dan harris is gay, bryan singer is gay, they're gay for each other and they made the gayest movie of the summer. Its soooooo sad but its sooo true. Tell me i'm lying!

Why are movies only made so they can open big? If they spent a little longer working on the script they might actually make good films and the box office will be even bigger... especially with a 250 million dolalr plus movie like superman! What the fuck kind of shit are they trying to pull. That movie should have been good! I feel like those who thought the movie was good are lying to themselves. Have you never seen a good movie... does superman returns even come close to the spiderman movies?
speaking of which, the best thing about the movie was the spiderman 3 trailer. I trust sam raimi won't let us down. He knows his audience and wont fuck them over. That just the type of guy he is.

Its sadder that the best movie this summer has been "click" and even that is debatable. I have high hopes for pirates 2 and clerks 2. Even snakes on a plane, but i have a feeling everyone is going to be disapointed, i dont know if any of you have seen cellular, but thats the director and it wasn't that good a movie... but it was probably the script. i dunno.

Sorry, i just had to get that all off my chest.

comment #37

Devin C says ...

And my eyes roll back in my head....Click the best movie of the year? Your opinion is noted and you may now be seated....thanks

comment #38

Devin C says ...

Sorry SUMMER not year...my mistake...but either way I gagged when I read your commentary...also when you are trying to educate people, use a dictionary or spell checker...thanks

comment #39

lesterg says ...

Zack: "The actual production budget for Superman Returns came in just over $200 million. It was originally budgeted at $184 million"

209M is the figure that's been floated (which is frankly an absurd number for a non-sequel with one "name" star...but I digress) for the actual production of Singer's film.

Now, by Singer's own admission and (the Warner owned) EW's research they're well over 250M adding in previous Superman development costs. Marketing is another 80-100M easy.

So in the end, what is that actual break-even number? 400? 450? More?

comment #40

says ...

"Click" is the best movie of the summer? Since when have retarded people been able to log on to the internet?

comment #41

gh says ...

No it would have been the Cast Away theme.

comment #42

Ernie says ...

Wells and (to a lesser extent) the rest of you "SR" supporters, need to get over it. The film was a huge letdown and no matter how hard you try to maintain, that there tons of heart on display in the film, you're dead wrong. Singer and his overrated writers (Harris and Dougherty) horribly dropped the ball with this flick. I'm not saying "Pirates" is going to be the be-all end-all of the summer, but it's got provide more bang for the buck than "SR." What could have been a fun and joyous big screen adventure was turned into an emo-snorefest. Donner's films may be imperfect and show their age, but they are tons better than "Superman Returns." And no, I'm not an old geezer who longs for the old days. Even if this movie made north of $300 million this summer, I'd still consider it a failure and I don't think I'm alone in this thinking.

comment #43

JackdoesJill says ...

supermanisgay said:

"Its sadder that the best movie this summer has been "click" and even that is debatable. "

He didnt say it was the best movie, he said it was sad that that has been the best.
Have you even seen it?

I guess that makes you all retarded for not being able to read.
Apparently retards can log onto the internet!

So retards.. What the best movie of the summer?

I havent seen click but everything i have seen has sucked!

comment #44

QueenOfTheRetards says ...

man, this conversation is retarded!

this summer has just been one letdown after another.
my faith in anything but indie is starting to dwindle.
c'mon you big studio shits, get your act together... please!

comment #45

says ...

I liked Superman returns but it is a flawed film. The film has a momentum problem in it's story telling and the choice to film it on a grainy type of film stock was a mistake and I think is turning the mainstream crowd off a little. routh is real good as superman and bosworth grew on me but the lois character is so different in tone from the donner films that it takes time to get used to. I could sense from watching it that it would get a split reaction from regular movie goers just like King Kong which critics loved. For the record Kong was ho hum from my point of view.

comment #46

C. Robert Dimitri says ...

*SPOILERS* Superman Returns...eh. Not much suspense, very predictable, minimal clever dialogue, boring plot...there were a few good moments, and I dug a couple of the action sequences, but I'm not understanding the worship. With respect to the Donner movies, nothing really happens in this movie that we haven't already seen. O.k., Superman has a kid. Like we didn't see that coming once you know Lois has a baby. I love Superman 2 (General Zod rules), but I'm not really a Superman guy. An invincible hero with one vulnerability just isn't very interesting.

comment #47

says ...

Superman was not filmed on film. It was all on Video.
Its not grain its pixels.

It was annoying in the beginning to see all the pixelation, but i got used to it.

There was a lot more to be annoyed with than the video look though.

I think video needs to be reconsidered as the new medium for cinema.

Film is Truth!
and superman had none!

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