comment #1

NYCBusybody says ...

And more people will hit Drudge's site in 12 hours than will ever see this movie.

comment #2

Nicol D says ...

So now we have to pretend that a heroin addicted, girlfriend beating, rock star gagillionaire who supported the IRA and gave money to them to kill British soldiers and civilians was oppressed by George Bush?

Please, release a film like this around 08.

Please.

comment #3

Daniel Zelter says ...

Nicol: Um, Bush did coke and was a drunk driver, forced one of his girlfriends to have an abortion, was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and now trades with Qadaffi.

comment #4

Bart Smith says ...

You may want to drop the "site" from the end of the url. Otherwise it doesn't exactly lead to the Drudge Report parody.

http://www.theusversusjohnlennon.com/

comment #5

Mathew says ...

Drudge is linking it directly.

Not really interested in seeing it after viewing the trailer. Lennon wasn't a very likable guy. Don't believe me then try listening to his Rolling Stone interview. He struck me as one of those artist types that tried to act like he hated being a celebrity all the while secretly enjoying the attention. And really who knows what he saw in Yoko except maybe himself...

comment #6

Daniel Zelter says ...

Matt: "He struck me as one of those artist types that tried to act like he hated being a celebrity all the while secretly enjoying the attention."

He hated having to live up to his success, but he loved the validation.

"And really who knows what he saw in Yoko except maybe himself..."

She was the opposite of how he was brainwashed to live his life, and that's why he loved her.

comment #7

Mathew says ...

How was he brainwashed? It seems to me that he more or less lost his way after the Beatles break up. I'm not a historian on the matter but isn't Yoko kind of a bitch since she has lambasted other members of the band.

comment #8

Daniel Zelter says ...

Mat: "How was he brainwashed? It seems to me that he more or less lost his way after the Beatles break up."

He never wanted to be the loveable(read: safe) guy in a suit or turtleneck sweater who covered the latest hits from MoTown, as idealized by Brian Epstein. That's something he did to pay the bills. But living that lie was just too much for him. I don't think most fans get that about him.

" I'm not a historian on the matter but isn't Yoko kind of a bitch since she has lambasted other members of the band."

At least John didn't let her family make business decisions for the band like Paul did
with Linda's family.

comment #9

travis b. says ...

i like how everyone talks about his drug addiction and yoko, yet they fail to talk about how Nixon did really go out of his way to get this guy out of the U.S. for reasons that weren't exactly on the up and up. say what you will about his personal life, but this looks to be an interesting documentary on the government (specifically Nixon & Hoover) going too far in their vendetta against a man who was against their politics.

comment #10

travis b. says ...

nicol...what the hell does this documentary have to do with george bush? it was nixon, not bush who did the oppressing against lennon. surprisingly enough, everything does not revolve around george bush.

comment #11

Mathew says ...

The Beatles progressed as a band. None of them wanted to continue to write 'Love Me Do' so they didn't. I have no idea what you're talking about wearing a turtle neck and covering MoTown. I'm sure John wouldn't either.

comment #12

NYCBusybody says ...

Elvis Costello said it best about John Lennon:

"Wasn't it a millionaire, who said imagine no possessions?"

Lennon had some great ways of inspiring people to stand back and open their hearts; he was also a great songwriter, perhaps rock's best. But he was a pretty miserable human being, and I have no interest in seeing a movie that I'm sure will whitewash him, particularly after seeing the ad campaign.

comment #13

NYCBusybody says ...

And travis b, I think it's pretty obvious that Nicol D was being facetious in his reference to Bush. That was his point, that not everything has to do with the guy.

comment #14

SaveFarris says ...

NYCBusybody,

I think Nicol D was in no way facetious. If "not everything has to do with the guy", why is Gore Vidal saying that "Mr. Bush represents death", not to mention the trailer crowing about being "From the Studio of Fahrenheit 9/11".

comment #15

NYCBusybody says ...

I don't like George Bush or John Lennon, and I wouldn't attend a movie celebrating either.

comment #16

Nicol D says ...

Just to clarify, I was referring to George Bush Sr. , who was head of the CIA during the 70's.

I am sure that the film will make the connecton.

Also, Lennon was a brilliant artist. But he was no saint and other than having a big mouth, did very little in life to promote peace.

He gave money to the IRA and supported thier cause and abused his girlfriends.

Give peace a chance? Perhaps he should have looked in the mirror.

Also, to say Lennon was silenced and oppressed when he was one of the most vocal, arrogant stars of all time is to mock the true oppression that actually occurs on this planet (ie. Cuba, China, Egypt, Syria etc.)

Lennon was a great muscian but he is no Bono. Bono really does try to make a difference and understands the nuances of geo-politics.

Lennon was an arrogant poseur who just spewed the marxist rhetoric of the times.

Great musician though!

comment #17

Skip Noonan says ...

All J. Edgar had to do was look at John & Yoko trying to stop the war by staying bed for a week. That surely would've been a tip-off that John was as much of a national security threat as a hailstorm.

Nice that Hollywood celebs are continuing John's painless protests with their "rolling fasts." Hoo boy.

comment #18

Daniel Zelter says ...

Mat: "The Beatles progressed as a band. None of them wanted to continue to write 'Love Me Do' so they didn't."

But they still had to stick with a certain image, and it was just too much for John.

NYC: 'Elvis Costello said it best about John Lennon: "Wasn't it a millionaire, who said imagine no possessions?" '

Wasn't it rich white slaveowners who believed in a democratic system of government?

"But he was a pretty miserable human being,"

At least he didn't contaminate Vietnamese villagers with Agent Orange.

Nicol: "Just to clarify, I was referring to George Bush Sr. , who was head of the CIA during the 70's."

Oh, you mean the guy who helped Saddam and Pinochet overthrow democractically-elected governments, and whose father did business with the Nazis?

"But he was no saint and other than having a big mouth, did very little in life to promote peace."

The same could be said about Nixon and Johnson.

"He gave money to the IRA and supported thier cause"

So I guess by your logic, George Washington and Ghandhi were terrorists, because they wanted independence from the British, too.

"and abused his girlfriends."

He wasn't perfect, but he tried to improve himself. Most rock stars are egotistical and greedy, but John wanted to do more with his life.
That's what people respected about him.

"Also, to say Lennon was silenced and oppressed when he was one of the most vocal, arrogant stars of all time is to mock the true oppression that actually occurs on this planet (ie. Cuba, China, Egypt, Syria etc.)"

Um, trashing other countries is getting old, considering we're trading partners with China, we're keeping detainees in Syria, we supported an election in Egypt which allowed the Muslim Brotherhood to become the dominant party, and
we're cutting off food and medicine to Cuba.

"Lennon was a great muscian but he is no Bono. Bono really does try to make a difference and understands the nuances of geo-politics."

I don't see how stopping an illegal and immoral war isn't making a difference.

comment #19

Anonymous says ...

"I don't like George Bush..."

And we believe you too, Monica, you're just a high-spirited, friendly kind of gal. Oh, & dear, you missed a spot on your chin just there.

comment #20

Nicol D says ...

Daniel,

I don't even need to defend people like Bush Sr. etc.

See I do not deify them. Bush Sr. was never considered a hero by the masses.

Lennon is deified. And he was a pig. That is the difference.

I am not saying others are perfect, but I do not worship them.

Lennon was just a wealthy rock star poseur and he is not fit to wipe Bono's nose.

At least Bono knows socialism/Marxism is a form of oppression. Lennon was too facile to get that that.

Also you cannot say "give peace a chance' and then finance the IRA and have credibility. The man was a hypocrite.

Great musician though! I went to Abbey Road last year. Great place!

I do not hate Lennon. I just want people to put him in perspective.

comment #21

Nicol D says ...

Daniel,

"Um, trashing other countries is getting old,..."

No, trashing America is old.

comment #22

Daniel Zelter says ...

Nicol: "Bush Sr. was never considered a hero by the masses."

The people who voted for his son would disagree.

"Lennon is deified. And he was a pig. That is the difference."

Lennon was a walking/talking contradiction, but he had progressive ideals and values. He put his career on the line to support what were considered social taboos back then, such as interracial marriage, and equal opportunities for women. Sure, Bob Dylan was way ahead of him on being against the Vietnam War, but Lennon stood by his stance until the end.

"Lennon was just a wealthy rock star poseur and he is not fit to wipe Bono's nose."

Lennon was doing charity concerts long before Bono.

"At least Bono knows socialism/Marxism is a form of oppression."

Marxism only "oppresses" those who use money to maintain power. Now if you're referring to the kind of oppression found in the U.S.S.R. and China, that's not true Marxism. Also, the Canadians and Europeans are socialist, and they have more parties to represent them than we do. So how are they being oppressed?

"Also you cannot say "give peace a chance' and then finance the IRA and have credibility.The man was a hypocrite."

Actually, he didn't finance the IRA ( http://www.commondreams.org/views/022500-102.htm ), but even if he did, it was likely before they became a "terrorist" organization. And even if that weren't the case, I'm sure he'd withdraw his support the minute they engaged in violent activities.

comment #23

Daniel Zelter says ...

Nicol: "No, trashing America is old."

Then America should stop invading countries and killing people for profit.

comment #24

Nicol D says ...

"Lennon was a walking/talking contradiction, but he had progressive ideals and values."

In other words he was a hypocrite who judged others yet did not even try to walk the line himself.

Using that definition of walking/talking contradiction you must love people like Jim or Tammy Faye Baker.

As far as your views on Marxism...friend, more people have been tortured maimed and killed in the named of Marxism in the past 100 years than capitalism, Christianity, Islam, Catholicism and the America in 2000.

Canada is not socialist. They just elected a Conservative to PM who is friends with Bush.

Parts of Europe are socialist and now they are payign the price.

Socialism is oppression.

comment #25

Daniel Zelter says ...

Nicol: "In other words he was a hypocrite who judged others yet did not even try to walk the line himself."

Lennon actually did try to be a feminist and a peacenik. I don't see Bush trying to be a "compassionate" conservative, though.

"Using that definition of walking/talking contradiction you must love people like Jim or Tammy Faye Baker."

The Bakers were scum, because they not only were hypocrites, but they stole people's money while being hypocrites. (You know, like most Republicans.) They didn't show any remorse for their actions until they got caught. Lennon knew he had problems from the get-go, and didn't try to pretend otherwise.

"As far as your views on Marxism...friend, more people have been tortured maimed and killed in the named of Marxism in the past 100 years than capitalism, "

Sorry, but Hitler's scorecard of deaths is still higher than Stalin's, Mao's and Pol Pot combined. And if you go back even further with the Middle Passage and the slaughter of Indians since Columbus, it gets even higher. And then, of course, there are the people currently suffering from lack of food or health care under a free market system. (40 million uninsured? Most of Africa and Latin American starving and malnourished? Check.) You see, Nicol, capitalism needs genocide to function. The "have-nots" need to pay for the mistakes of the "haves". You've already seen it happening with Katrina.

"Canada is not socialist. They just elected a Conservative to PM who is friends with Bush."

The coalition party is still socialist, because Canada's not stupid enough to get rid of its free health care, no matter who they pick.

"Parts of Europe are socialist and now they are payign the price."

You mean a currency which has more value than the dollar? Fewer wars amongst themselves? (The Bosnian war was the result of nationalism re-emerging after the fall of the Soviet Union, after all. Is that really the kind of world you believe should be unregulated?)