comment #1

NYCBusybody says ...

Oh, Jeff, you're a closet Pirate fan. Admit it. Join us, and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete.

Aesthetic refinement, schmaesthetic refinement.

comment #2

Cory says ...

Jeff,

I agree 100%. That dive was just seriously unreal in execution. I didn't like the film at all but if I were to see the film, it would be all about seeing the scenes with Davey Jones and that specific dive.

I had to do a double take to make sure I saw what I saw because it looked so photoreal.

comment #3

Colin says ...

Did anyone else notice the horrible lighting in the sword fight on the mill wheel between Norrington and Will Turner? It was light outside before the sword fight and light outside after the sword fight, but during the fight itself, it was really, really dark. So dark that I really couldn't see what was going on. In fact, I half thought it was just a problem with the print rather than the film itself (was it?).

It was a clear signal to me that the point was to hide the fact that it was 2 stunt doubles, but it was so poorly done that it really took me out of the scene.

Nighy, Depp, and Tom Hollander (as Cutler Beckett) were great. Everything else was disappointing.

comment #4

Chuck says ...

NYCBusybody- I think your right, Jeff's slowly feeling the pull toward the Pirates. Nothing wrong with that, Nighy WAS great.

comment #5

Anonymous says ...

I didn't notice ANY lighting (or ANY technical problems for that matter) when I watched the film in LA...all I saw was the most BRILLIANT cgi stuff integrated into a movie....the shot at the end where Depp is face-to-face with the squid monster took my breath away...i will see it at least 2 more times just to watch the action scenes...the best summer movie and just typical that Bruckheimer kick's everyone's ass with this thing.

comment #6

cathar says ...

Interestingly, after seeing POTC with my 14-year-old dsughter (we both loved it, it's a movie that keeps on propelling itself at the audience unlike the new "Superman," which just sits there and expects adoration), I go back and catch the last 10 minutes on TCM of "Clash Of The Titans," where Olivier says in an ever so sadly resigned tone, "Send in the kraken" to gobble up Judi Bowker. Having forgotten this movie, I expected from Ray Harryhausen something pretty good, if not as sucker-laden as the critter in POTC. Instead, there's just what basically looks like a "guy" there in a rubber suit in stop-action, albeit one 100 feet or so high and green-colored with scales. Things sure have changed in terms of special effects, and no disrespect is meant Harryhausenn by noting that,

comment #7

RottenTomato says ...

Hey Jeff !

There's something disturbing in Paul Degarabadian's description of the PIRATES B.O. success :

"This is exactly the shot in the arm the industry needs," said Paul Dergarabedian.

So he decided to put edge on his usual puff quote, eh?

Gotta love that mixing of drugs and a family movie !!!

(taken from the NYT article by Sharon Waxman)

comment #8

Michael says ...

I agree that Davy Jones was amazing. I also greatly appreciated the man bound to the wall and the make-up job on Bootstrap Bill. But am I the only one who didn't enjoy the rest of the Dutchman's ship and crew? Too busy, too much clutter.

comment #9

Melquiades says ...

I didn't notice any issues with lighting in the wheel scene. Could well have been an issue with the print you saw (or the bulb in the theater projector).

I agree that Davy Jones and the Dutchman were amazing F/X feats. Nothing in this movie felt like an effect, which is a testament to how well done it really is.

comment #10

NYCBusybody says ...

Easily and without question the greatest visual effects I've ever seen in a film. It made Superman Returns from a week before (a pretty good movie in its own right) seem stolid and etched in dull sand.

comment #11

ArchiveGuy says ...

Re: the OP. Are there any other serious Visual FX Oscar candidates slated for the Fall/Winter? Maybe "Charlotte's Web" (in the "Babe" vein)? And if not, what will the final 3 look like? I think we can safely assume PotC & Supes, but what would be the 3rd? "Poseidon" (Petersen's "Perfect Storm" got a nod)? "X-Men" (a franchise thus far completely ignored by AMPAS)?

comment #12

Steve C. says ...

Forget Gollum from LOTR - Davey Jones is a milestone that joins the T-1000 and the T-Rex in SFX history. I could not keep my eyes off of it.

comment #13

nickc says ...

the fx in Superman seemed blurry and hazy and they never POPPED off the screen, say like in Pirates or Spiderman. Maybe it's the fact that Superman was shot with that new camera and Pirates was on good old fashioned film stock. There is NO subsitute for film in my head. I also loved the hammer-head shark guy...f'ing cool as hell.

comment #14

Cory says ...

The reason the Superman Returns effect didn't pop because Singer wasn't trying to draw attention to them. They served the story. Dead Man's Chest can't say the same thing.

As cool as Davey Jones was, the airplane rescue sequence in Returns was spectacular, effects wise. The whole sequence worked just as great as Davey Jones and the Flying Dutchmen effects.

And there wasn't an action sequence in Dead Man's Chest that could rival Singer's airplane sequence. It's by far the best action sequence this summer.

comment #15

NYCBusybody says ...

There was a story in Superman Returns? It must have been during the time I fell asleep because the movie turned into Lois Lane Returns: A Family Divided.

I seem to remember Parker Posey slapping Kevin Spacey too - I suppose that was plot-based, though it still doesn't allude to this alleged "story". My search continues.

comment #16

Steve C says ...

"They served the story. Dead Man's Chest can't say the same thing."

Oh, what complete fucking horseshit.

Why is it that the dyed-in-the-wool fanboys can never honestly give props to a film that they see as the "enemy" of their beloved franchise (like last year's equally eye-rolling fight among SITH vs FIREFLY fans).

Name me one effect that just screamed "look at me!!!!" in DEADMAN'S CHEST? Everything I saw in it and in SR were done to further their stories. What, you gonna make Davey Jones' crew just water logged men, like they are lost extras from the original THE FOG?

No, this is a story about fantastical sea creatures so you fucking have to show fantastical sea creatures.

I thought the SR airplane sequence was great, although the set up was totally bogus (hey, everyone else has their equipment back, but we don't. Hey, why are these release bolts not working? Hey, why isn't there a back-up?). It would have been nice if the story it was in service to had been as equally compelling.

comment #17

nickc says ...

Cory...u gotta be kidding me...the airplane rescue in Superman Returns PALES in comparrison to any action scene in Pirates....I waited and waited and waited for the "it" moment all throughout Superman and was let down the entire time...the plane scene was 10 mins too short, the payoff at the end was anit-climactic, and again, it all looked blurry, undistinguished, and border-line sloppy. I don't know, maybe I am being too harsh as I found Superman Returns to one of the biggest dissapointments I have ever had in a movie theater.

comment #18

Cory says ...

Why is it when someone actually likes a film and defends it, they get called a "fanboy?"

It makes no sense to me....

comment #19

Cory says ...

nickc,

What do you want me to say? Dead Man's Chest was barely entertaining. For me, it just doesn't work. Had the done the entire film about Davey Jones, the film would've been aces in my book because he was spectacular.

I'm not even a Superman fan and I just responded to Superman Returns. My level of Superman knowledge is the first two Chris Reeve films. That's all I got. And yet, Singer somehow made Superman work on alot of levels to me and one of those were the visual effects.

Look, I'm a big-time ILM fan and I'm of the opinion that they should've had at least another 3 Oscars in the past 7 years so I'm hoping that they win for Davey Jones because it's remarkable.

That doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion, Dead Man's Chest just doesn't work. Sure, it's summer and it's suppose to be "fun." That's the main argument everyone uses. Still, the damn film has to work. The first hour was terrible. It's "let's have Johnny Depp do his Captain Jack Sparrow thing and hopefully everyone will have a good time." As it turns out, it felt incredibly forced to no end. The film didn't really start to get interesting until the final 25 minutes or so. Davey Jones adds a spark when he shows. Bloom, as much as I loved in him Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut, was just bland as hell. Keira was nowhere to be found. And Verbinski somehow made Johnny Depp uninteresting for more than half the film. How is that possible? It's Johnny Freaking Depp. The guy can act in his sleep.

Maybe I'll have to check it out a second time to see if I'm terribly wrong. But, after watching this film, it made me appreciate the first film more...a film that I still think is just okay and only holds together because of Johnny Depp.

comment #20

Steve C. says ...

That's not why you got called that and by failing to respond to what I actually wrote, you sure aren't disabusing me of the notion.

comment #21

Cory says ...

I don't consider Dead Man's Chest the enemy. I just didn't like it.

comment #22

Colin says ...

Cory, I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I thought that the first POTC was just okay, with Depp putting it over the top. I would probably give it a B+. To me, the second one was just a mess, and even Depp couldn't save it. I'd give it a C, maybe a C+.

comment #23

Steve C. says ...

Still waiting on that list of effects that were not in service of the story. You know, what you originally slammed POTC for and what my response was based upon.

comment #24

Cory says ...

Considering I don't really remember too much of the damn film, I can't give you that list.

Anything with Davey Jones, I'm all good. The rest? Couldn't tell you....

comment #25

Telemachos says ...

Johnny Depp's cannibal escape and the three-way swordfight are easily the best action sequences I've seen in awhile... they consistently showed you stuff you'd never seen, but also kept upping the ante and adding elements into the mix. For example, three guys sword-fighting on a giant wheel is pretty crazy to begin with, but add in how they get on/off/inside/outside at different moments plus all trying to grab the key and you've got comedy/action gold.

For all the hustle and bustle of every scene in PIRATES (both from a plot perspective and a VFX one) most of the detail is actually there for a reason, and sets up or pays off another element. Something I missed, for example (SPOILERS, obviously) was when they visited the voodoo priestess for the first time, the undead monkey starts exploring the feet and boots of a body lying on the set. The body, of course, turns out to be Barbossa, the monkey's original owner.

comment #26

Steve C. says ...

Cory -

So, in other words, you were just talking shit when you wrote "They served the story. Dead Man's Chest can't say the same thing." You can't defend the entire raison d'etre of your post.

comment #27

landlubber says ...

Not that I think that calling someone a "fanboy" is that much of an insult, but defending POTC 2 with such vehemence (multiple posts, 'complete fucking horseshit'?) is kinda fanboyish. Just sayin'.

comment #28

Preston says ...

Singer overestimated American nostalgia for the old Superman franchise, just like Peter Jackson did with King Kong. Sure, the general public has some vague cultural memory of the first two Reeves pictures - maybe they caught them on TV or rented them on video when they were a kid - but I don't think that many people were really longing for a return to the old franchise. They could have really gotten behind a total restart of the franchise in the vein of Batman Begins - maybe incorporating some of the ideas of Smallville. Put it in the hands of a visionary director who nevertheless maintains a certain mainstream sensibility and watch the cash roll in. Superman Returns opened alright, but will finish weakly unlike Batman Begins. Superman was supposed to be Warner's ace in the hole and now it looks like it will do maybe $190m domestic - even less international. The first Pirates looked like a misguided attempt at franchise and an absolute flop before its release. Strange fate.

comment #29

Stu says ...

Perhaps the dispute over the effects moving the story is the wrong issue, I mean really, how many movies that have relied on effects to carry the deadweight of a lame story have succeeded? (cough, new, cough, star wars, cough)

I agree that POTC 2, at this point, doesn't seem as good as POTC 1, but there were several effects that were eye-popping yet cleanly done...there is no dispute that Davy Jones was amazing(nod to the poster about T-1000 and T-rex)...the common complaint is, "but it looks like a special effect" OF COURSE IT DOES!!! Its a guy with an octopus for a HEAD!! There is NO WAY IT WILL look truly real, but does it look as well made as possible, YES! Hence its success. BUT then someone else mentioned something key--most of the Dutchman's crew was just too difficult to get in one viewing...yes, the hammerhead guy was cool, as was bootstrap--especially the way he continued to degrade into more of a creature than a man..BUT, the rest of them...eh--they just tried to do TOO much. Which is arguably worse than not enough. But as to POTC 2 as a whole, lets hold off on the judgement, POTC 3 might knock it out of the park...

To the Superman side of things...the story is a tough one...Superman as a character is never going to work well in a film, he is just TOO DAMN POWERFUL. All you can do is get some kryptonite to hurt him...which just gets old over time, so you have to give singer some credit for finding a way to work some additional elements into the film. Does anyone else think that there may be some interesting things working with the Krytonian/Human DNA that kid has...did anyone else notice how he didn't react the way Superman does to the kryptonite? He just stares at it...in fact, it is not until after he is exposed to it that he manifests any super powers...where might that go? I concede that SR goes off in some unusal, some shaking, directions...but we have to also allow for some exposition that is necessary to undo the filth that was Superman 3 and 4.

OK, the effects in SR--I also agree that the airplane sequence in SR was pretty kick ass as was his flying all over saving Metropolis as the continent was forming...much better than anything in the first 4 films. But I keep reflecting on the "little things" that work in SRs effects...Superman breaking the sound barrier for instance...his fall from space...simple stuff...but those are the things that linger with me...I dunno...

either way, if the movie was worth your money...good on you. Hard to achieve these days with 9.50 a ticket in Wash DC...

comment #30

Stu says ...

To Preston:
good point about the overestimated nostalgia impact the reaction to SR...did it come across to some people out there as just a remake of a tired topic that was dead and buried a long time ago? Has it simply been too long?

comment #31

Trammell says ...

I liked both SR and POTC:DMC. Didn't love either one but I thought the good stuff made up for the bad stuff.

I thought both were much better than X3, which I found to be a huge disappointment.

comment #32

Steven says ...

The real story is see at least 10 SRO shows in sleepy Agoura Hills for POTC. The kids in the Mann Theater dressed up in Pirate gear. Kinda like the old days when going to the movies was an event. Are we back? No, too early to tell. Like it or not, one good movie experience begats another...

comment #33

martin benitez says ...

"I thought both were much better than X3, which I found to be a huge disappointment"

Give me a fucking break. Pirates better than X3. sure it wasn`t a masterpiece and wasn`t as good as X2 but X-Men 3 had more depth and was more satisfying than Pirates 2 with all this one-dimensional repetitive crap.

comment #34

Poteki123 says ...

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