comment #1

Rich S. says ...

Before he took on Apolcalypto, didn't Mel express an interest in doing a movie about the Maccabees and the origins of Hanukkah? I know he was meeting a lot of resistance there, and that was a year before his traffic stop. Maybe he could make and distribute the film for free?

comment #2

travis b. says ...

i think it's become clear that the vision of mel gibson as being clean and sober was a sham. over at cnn.com they're reporting that he's been stopped twice before for reckless driving and allowed off because of who he is. forget about all of the religious aspects of mel gibson (both positive and negative), the guy is quite lucky that he didn't kill someone. but of course, if he did, i'm sure there would still be some who would rush to defend him. even now i find it difficult to see how anyone could defend this behavior, especially since it seems he's apologizing and going to rehab after he'd been caught and not because it's how he truly feels. we'll see though. maybe there will be some kind of turnaround for him.

comment #3

Anonymous says ...

Oh that's what that mark on your forehead is.

comment #4

Amy Dee says ...

Mel has said that his father, a famous Holocaust-denier, has "never lied to him." Why should Mel come clean now? To do so would be to betray his particularly kooky brand of "religion."

I'm sure Mel believes that the Jews set him up, and he'll find apostles who agree with him here. But what's done is done. And he's done.

At least, let's hope ABC cancels his "Holocaust" mini-series, now in development.

comment #5

O. Exx says ...

Does he have the character? Christopher Hitchens answers that, I think:

"And it has been obvious for some time to the most meager intelligence that he is sick to his empty core with Jew-hatred.
This is not just proved by his twistedly homoerotic spank-movie The Passion of the Christ, even though that ghastly production did focus obsessively on the one passage in the one of the four Gospels that tries to convict the Jewish people en masse of the hysterical charge of Christ-killing or 'deicide.' It is validated by his fealty to his earthly father, a crackpot who belongs to a Catholic splinter group of which our Mel is a member. This group more or less lives off the stench of medieval anti-Semitism."

comment #6

Anonymous says ...

the jews are coming for mr wells now

comment #7

Nicol D says ...

Two points,

1. Being a Traditionalist Catholic has nothing to do with 'hating Jews' as some here have implied. I know many and that is just not what it is about.

To smear all Traditional Catholics with hating Jews is to display the same kind of ignorance that Gibson did.

2. Chrisopher Hitchens has made a career of lambasting the Catholic Church and anyone who follows it. For him to condemn Gibson of hatred is like a fish condeming a sponge for being water logged.

comment #8

Anonymous says ...

we already got his bicycle. tomorrow, the world.

comment #9

Thung says ...

Question is, is that good for the Jews? I mean I like the reference and majesty of it, and it may work for the Christians, but I think Jews as a group are pretty no nonsense and don't put much credence in penance. I think Rabbi Marvin Hier spoke pretty sensibly to the matter. I'm dying to Apocolyto and anything weird like that Mel can finance, but stay out of The Holocaust business, please, it's just too perverted no matter what.

comment #10

Anonymous says ...

It amazes me how Mel Gibson and his team (agents/publicists/managers/spiritual gurus) are attempting to skirt the issue here by placing him in rehab (now reported) and issuing a general apology. People are not stupid, Mr. Gibson. You are avoiding discussing the matter at hand. And until you admit guilt, people will continue to call your bluff.

comment #11

gh says ...

Christopher Hitchens needs to have his head examined. There is more hatred in that one paragraph than in anything Gibson is being accused of beleiving.

comment #12

Daniel Zelter says ...

"He needs to make a show of groveling at the feet of Hollywood's Jewish bigwigs. That's the only thing that will even half-assedly begin to get him off the hook. Me bad, me anti-Semite, me looking for guidance."

I wish the bishops who picked the current Pope would do the same.

comment #13

gh says ...

All these people calling for Gibson to admit his "guilt" make me sick. Who died and made you Jesus.

comment #14

Nicol D says ...

Daniel,

The Jewish community approved when Ratzinger was chosen as Pope.

He has done much to spearhead relations wih them and has a history of fighting anti-semitism.

You really are one of the biggest, ignorant asses I've ever encountered in the blogosphere Daniel.

Really.

You are every bit as ignorant as Gibson.

Now leave a simplistic post saying how Ratzinger was a Nazi...

comment #15

christian says ...

what's really at stake here is the right-wing embrace of gibson's jesus torture film and their amazing ballet skills now that a lot of our suspicions have been slightly confirmed. michael medved has been up against the wall today as he comes up with hilarious excuses, i.e., comparing gibson to michael moore.

btw, i know jewish people who know mel personally and he's always been painted as a stand up good guy.

just don't go drinkin' and drivin' with him.

comment #16

Anonymous says ...

Exactly, Christian, "Jesus torture film" -- a snuff film under the guise of religiousity.

comment #17

Anonymous says ...

In response to GH:

Mel works with people of all ethncities and races for business reasons. Having antisemtic beliefs that are now vocalized is NOT acceptible in any workplace environment. Get a clue buddy.

comment #18

Anonymous says ...

2:30 am on the PCH is a workplace environment? I didn't realize that Mel moonlights with CalTrans.

comment #19

Jeff says ...

This world is so unbelievably fucked up--the guy was busted for driving plastered, and somehow that fact isn't what he is being derided for. Stop worrying about relatively harmless anti-Semites like Gibson and start worrying about the ones launching rockets into Israel while using women and children as human shields.

comment #20

lu says ...

i´m surprised nobody mentions the 37 dead children by israeli missiles only this weekend. i´m not excusing gibson´s comments, but i bet he was thinking about lebanon when he blamed jews for all the wars.

comment #21

travis b. says ...

nicol d said "Now leave a simplistic post saying how Ratzinger was a Nazi..."

that actually brings up something that i've been thinking about...

one of my biggest problems with the "passion" was, what i felt it was a simplistic view of the death of Jesus. It didn't go into the politics of the situation, of the views of the Romans on Jesus, or the different sects of Jews' views on Jesus. The problem with this, is that a lot of people took it as anti-semitism and took Gibson to task on that.

now, ratzinger was a hitler youth, but anyone who knows their history knows that he wasn't one of the hardcore Nazis and, has quite obviously renounced that portion of his life. when i think of a stereotypical nazi, ratzinger doesn't come into mind. but, imagine if ratzinger suddenly went onto an anti-semite tirade. it would kind of support the nazi ties.

i feel like that's what has happened with gibson, at least in my mind. i was willing to forgive him for the passion because it took an extremely one sided view of the situation (and yes, i understand that it's pretty close to the bible), and while some of it was stereotypical (i say stereotypes since there was no context given to the Jews in the movie), i didn't think he meant it as anti-jew.

from what happened with his dui, i have begun to rethink the passion and i think that maybe, whether it was subliminal or not, it was a blatant piece of anti-semitism. unfortunate, yes. but it's enough to make one wonder.

comment #22

Anonymous says ...

Ah, Nicol D! If I may: Your Hitchens simile doesn't hold water! In fact it's kinda, I dunno: Stoopid? (Gosh, I have to admit I'm finally getting fatigued by the amazing amount of vicious and brainless idiocy I'm finding in Wells's comments section. But no, NO Jeff; don't let it stop. I need the release.)

Nicol D. (again): If you really think Hitchens has "made a career of lambasting the Catholic Church," then you really don't understand A) Hitchens or B) How careers are made.

I guess my final thought is simply this: Why is this thread, like a hundred others I've been to today, so obsessed with who should be hated, and why? Anyone considered the fucking possibility that HATRED is not the answer?

What childishness. How sad.

"chrisopher Hitchens has made a career of lambasting the Catholic Church and anyone who follows it. For him to condemn Gibson of hatred is like a fish condeming a sponge for being water logged.

--Posted by: Nicol D at July 31, 2006 02:56 PM

comment #23

Anonymous says ...

Since you're throwing out numbers, how many innocent Israeli's have been killed by terrorists and anti-semitic regimes that surround Israel?

Why aren't hundreds of Israelis being killed by these new Hezbollah attacks? Because they have a massive amount of bomb shelters. Why do they have so many bomb shelters? Because they have been regularly bombed and attacked since the state of Israel drew its first breath.

Israel is surrounded by vocal anti-semitic countries who do not accept their right to even exist. It's a tragedy that the Lebanese civilians are being killed. But instead of blaming Israel, why not blame the Lebanese government for allowing a terrorist organization to attack another sovereign nation. And furthermore, blame Hezbollah for using its own people as shields.

comment #24

travis b. says ...

hey nu...

i'm sure mel was thinking about lebanon when he made those comments...but guess what...israel is not the world Jewish population....yeah, it's a predominant jewish society, but there are people within israel who are protesting the war. and there are jews outside of israel who do not want to be associated with that country's policies.

people (on this board, in the news, everywhere) need to stop confusing israel with the jews of the world. i think that would stop a lot of this this anti-semitism

comment #25

Anonymous says ...

It's all tied together, it always has been

comment #26

Daniel Zelter says ...

Nicol: The community didn't "approve" of Ratzinger as much as a couple of rabbis who were on good terms with the old Pope. And I don't see how refusing to mention anti-Semitism while visiting a concentration camp until he was prodded to do so is an indication that he's "fighting" it.

"Exactly, Christian, "Jesus torture film" -- a snuff film under the guise of religiousity."

Do the Abu Ghraib photos also count?

"It's a tragedy that the Lebanese civilians are being killed. But instead of blaming Israel, why not blame the Lebanese government for allowing a terrorist organization to attack another sovereign nation."

Because Lebanon's already been bombed out from over a decade of civil war?

"And furthermore, blame Hezbollah for using its own people as shields."

You know if anyone from a S.W.A.T. team killed civilians in a hostage situation, they'd be forced to resign and/or go to jail.

comment #27

Anonymous says ...

You can't compare S.W.A.T. teams with war. Innocent people die in war, innocent people have died in every war. It's horrible, it's a tragedy, it's awful, I wish that it did not ever happen but it does.

If a foreign soldiers crossed the U.S. border, attacked & kidnapped our soldiers and our people, would we call it a hostage situation? Now add up how many times this has happened to the Israeli people and tell me that they should handle it diplomatically. We're villifying Mel Gibson for his alleged anti-semitism, why not do the same for the vocal anti semitic regimes that surround Israel?

comment #28

Anonymous says ...

Ratzinger a Nazi? I doubt it. Nicol Dunghead, near cert.

comment #29

Josh Mooney says ...

I wish there were a way to keep Jeff's "Hollywood Elsewhere" free of this horrible and boring us-versus-them flame wars! (There is, of course, but I am against censorship of any kind.) Still, shouldn't the people with HUGE issues to contest do so on other, more relevant blogs, or have their own TV shows or summink? From the amount of ill-reasoned, adolescent and obtuse vitriol being tossed around on Jeff's message boards, one might concluded that this is the only forum available for a world's worth of opinions. I KNOW that's not true. I've looked! Maybe you sanctimonious, hypocritical, incredibly self-assured people (really, how DO you survive in the 21st century without blowing your fucking HEADS off?) could do better in a place where you'll be told that all is well and you're among friends and your hatred can blossom anew there. More power to you, kids, in the MEANTIME, maybe we can get back to the subject of Hollywood and movies which is what this particular place is all about.

comment #30

Daniel Zelter says ...

"You can't compare S.W.A.T. teams with war. Innocent people die in war, innocent people have died in every war. It's horrible, it's a tragedy, it's awful, I wish that it did not ever happen but it does."

I'm just wondering why the fuck Israel can't use snipers?

"Ratzinger a Nazi? I doubt it."

Ratzinger's like one of those "scientists" the U.S pardoned to work at N.A.S.A. While not necessarily a war criminal, he didn't really speak out against the Nazi regime, either.

comment #31

Bibi N. says ...

"Chrisopher Hitchens has made a career of lambasting the Catholic Church and anyone who follows it. For him to condemn Gibson of hatred is like a fish condeming a sponge for being water logged."

This is an example of extremely sloppy thinking. Criticism of religious institutions, even of a severe nature, does not automatically equal "hate." If Hitchens has "lambasted" the Catholic Church, perhaps it's because the Church has had a lot to answer for. See how it behaved during World War II and the Holocaust, for example.

On the other hand, who can say that Gibson's drunken tirade against ALL JEWS (not merely the current Israeli government) is an example of reasoned discourse?

With Gibson, no thinking is involved. It's all gut.

comment #32

Martin Benitez says ...

Considering what Israel is doing right now, I don`t see Gibson doing that. Unless he wants to be an even bigger pariah in Hollywoodland.

comment #33

Nicol D says ...

Joseph Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler youth because at that time in Nazi Germany you had to join as a teen or it was a crime.

He later escaped and his father, a police officer, went to quite some lengths to putting himself and his family im jeopardy going against the Nazi's.

Just because a soldier is conscripted does not mean he believes in the cause.

Life is not that facile.

As for Hitchens, this is a man who hates Catholics so much he wrote a book vilifying Mother Theresa.

I wonder if he wrote his diatribe after 5 or 6 bourbons?

comment #34

Daniel Zelter says ...

Nicol: "Joseph Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler youth because at that time in Nazi Germany you had to join as a teen or it was a crime."

That's what Ratzinger claims, but I was told it was voluntary.

"As for Hitchens, this is a man who hates Catholics so much he wrote a book vilifying Mother Theresa."

Well Catholics wrote plays vilifying Jews, so it's only fair.

comment #35

lindenen says ...

So unbalanced racism is *fair*. Wow.

comment #36

nola says ...

I was a foriegn affairs major in college. From what I remember, if you were a teen at that time joining Hitler youth was "strongly" recommended if not mandatory.

Back to movies for a minute. I finally saw Downfall. Excellent but very upsetting movie.

comment #37

travis b. says ...

zelter- dude, the hitler youth, from 1938 to the end of the war was mandatory. by the end of the war, they were conscripting boys at the ages of 15 & 16 to serve as officers in the nazi military they were so shorthanded on men. i'm not a religious person, nor am i big fan of the catholic church, but you're spouting off nonsense man.

comment #38

Scott Weinberg says ...

"He needs to visit a prominent temple, take his shirt off, kneel on the stone floor and submit to lashings by a team of rabbis."

Wow, between this and "Lucky Jew," I'm really starting to see some true colors here. Classy.

comment #39

Daniel Zelter says ...

travis: "dude, the hitler youth, from 1938 to the end of the war was mandatory. by the end of the war, they were conscripting boys at the ages of 15 & 16 to serve as officers in the nazi military they were so shorthanded on men."

It didn't seem like they were being forced during the Kristallnacht...

comment #40

travis b. says ...

alright zelter. first of all, i'm not defending the hitler youth, i'm just pointing out that ratzinger did not join the h.y. on his own wishes. but, since we're going to go tit for tat, find me information from the kristallnacht about the median age of the people involved. then, when you're done with that, find the age of ratzinger. you would find that he would've been 11 years old, and he would not be conscripted until the age of 14. so bringing that horrific event up, makes no sense in the context of what we're talking about.

comment #41

Daniel Zelter says ...

"first of all, i'm not defending the hitler youth, i'm just pointing out that ratzinger did not join the h.y. on his own wishes. but, since we're going to go tit for tat, find me information from the kristallnacht about the median age of the people involved. then, when you're done with that, find the age of ratzinger."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht :

"The German citizen’s reaction to Kristallnacht was varied. Martin Gilbert believes that “many non-Jews resented the round up” [15], his opinions supported by German witness Dr Arthur Flehinger who recalls seeing “people crying while watching from behind their curtains” [16]. Some even went as far as to help Jews on the night, but the majority merely sat inside watching in horror, feeling helpless to do anything. Other German citizens took part, as it was not just Stormtroopers rioting. Evidence of this can be seen firstly in that riots broke out on the night of November 7 and continued in some places after the pogrom was later called to a stop, which were thus not the actions of the Nazi’s. Also, many sources mention women and children in the riots, who were clearly not Stormtroopers but ordinary citizens taking part. The number of German citizens involved in the riots is impossible to know however, as most of the Stormtroopers were wearing civilian clothes and they were thus indistinguishable."

"you would find that he would've been 11 years old, and he would not be conscripted until the age of 14. so bringing that horrific event up, makes no sense in the context of what we're talking about."

Sure, it makes sense. He only had a problem when he was forced to join, not when the organization consisted of members who joined of their own volition, even if they were killing people.

comment #42

Josh Mooney says ...

Omigod, they just keep going on going on going on going, and now they're onto Hitler youth. And Hitchens wrote a book vilifying Mother Theresa. Oh my gosh! Do tell. Well, for starters, that wasn't the goal of the book and, for seconders, a lot of reasonable Christians think "Saint" Theresa is actionable in the deaths of millions. OOPS! But I've gone and done what I said should NOT be done on Jeff's site, so I'll shut up. Please forgive me my trespasses. I'm as human as Mel Gibson. Am I not? Oh, I'd SO love to hear from those who think I ain't. Come on. Tell me why. Mind you, it's the essence of simplicity: "Why am I NOT as human as Mel Gibson?" Forgiveness. That's all I ask. You fucking cunts. FORGIVENESS. You hypocrites.

comment #43

gh says ...

In response to _______:

You wrote

"Mel works with people of all ethncities and races for business reasons. Having antisemtic beliefs that are now vocalized is NOT acceptible in any workplace environment. Get a clue buddy".

Are you high? Your response has absolutely nothing to do with anything I wrote. Maybe you should get a clue.

comment #44

Anonymous says ...

So unbalanced racism is *fair*. Wow.

Yes, please, more balanced racism, that would be fair...I think we've reached the point where logic has fallen sloppy dead

comment #45

Josh Mooney says ...

As long as someone is still quoting the Jefferson Airplane, I MUST remain hooked to this thread...

"So unbalanced racism is *fair*. Wow.
Yes, please, more balanced racism, that would be fair...I think we've reached the point where logic has fallen sloppy dead"

---Acid, incense, and ballons! Jefferson Airplane Loves You! But I need to point out, "anonymous", that the full quote is:

"When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead...And the White Knight is talking backwards, and the Red Queen's on her head... Remember what the dormouse said: 'Feed your head. Feed your head.'"

That changes, rather dramatically, your use of it in the above post, don't you think? I do! I find generally that people who quote the Airplane don't have a clue as to what they're doing! IMO!!!

comment #46

Christopher Giardino says ...

Daniel,

Do you realize that your little 'diatribes' against Catholics sound every bit as rational and logical as Mel's against the Jews?

I'm not gonna go tit for tat with you anymore.

You obviously are consumed by such an illogical hatred that I am sure there is nothing I could write to quell it.

comment #47

Daniel Zelter says ...

Chris: "Do you realize that your little 'diatribes' against Catholics sound every bit as rational and logical as Mel's against the Jews?"

I've said it before, but I'm not trashing Catholics, just the people who run their religion.
And what's irrational in demanding that gays and women be treated as equally as straight males by the religion? What's irrational about expecting priests to be held accountable for being anti-Semitic and/or child molesters?

comment #48

Anonymous says ...

"I find generally that people who quote the Airplane don't have a clue as to what they're doing!"

I knew EGGSactly whut I was doing.

comment #49

Christopher Giardino says ...

Daniel,

"What's irrational about expecting priests to be held accountable for being anti-Semitic and/or child molesters?"

What's irrational, is that based on every post I read from you on this subject, it appears you believe all Catholics are anti-semitic and child molesters. That's certainly the paranoid vibe you give.

"And what's irrational in demanding that gays and women be treated as equally as straight males by the religion?"

Are you equally demanding of Hindus, Muslims, Bhuddists, Orthodox Jews etc ? They all have the same views as the Catholic church on this issue.
I do not say this is right or wrong but as someone who has studied world religions for a good portion of thier adult life, I find it ironic that the Pope is condemned while the Dalai Lama (who is every bit as socially conservative as the Pope) gets a free pass.

Peace

comment #50

dave kelle says ...

But have Hilary Clinton make anti-semitic remarks, while presumably sober, and the Hollywood elite is grabbing its ankles to put her in the White House. The old double-standard....

comment #51

Anonymous says ...

"But have Hilary Clinton make anti-semitic remarks, while presumably sober, and the Hollywood elite is grabbing its ankles to put her in the White House. The old double-standard...."

Fantasy Island is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there

comment #52

Anonymous says ...

Not Fantasy Island, reality and it's not that hard to find...

"Patterson stated that Bill and Hillary Clinton would frequently argue with each other using the worst expletives known to mankind, sometimes in the presence of their daughter Chelsea. Some of the anti-Semitic slurs with which she commonly laced her tirades against Bill were "Jew motherfucker," "Jew Boy" and "Jew Bastard." [NewsMax, 15 and 17 July 2000]

"If she disagreed with Bill Clinton or she disagreed with some of the Jewish community in Little Rock -- or some of the ethnic community -- she would often make these statements." "She would say 'Jew Bastard' or call her husband a 'Jew boy' or a 'motherfucking Jew'," Patterson told the WABC New York radio audience. [Carl Limbacher and NewsMax Staff, 17 July 2000]

Patterson said he heard Hillary "utter anti-Jewish epithets between 10 and 20 times over the course of his six years at the Arkansas governor's mansion." [NewsMax, 17 July 2000]

Jerry Oppenheimer's book State of the Union: Inside the Complex Marriage of Bill and Hillary Clinton (2000) quotes former campaign aide Mary Lee Fray, who says that Hillary exploded in a rage after Bill lost his first bid for elective office, a run for Congress in Arkansas's Third Congressional District against John Paul Hammerschmidt. Hillary blamed Fray's husband, Paul, for the campaign's bungled political strategy. The slur was uttered at a heated, finger-pointing session at Bill Clinton's Fayetteville, Ark., campaign headquarters on election night in 1974, following his defeat. "You fucking Jew bastard!" Hillary yelled at Paul, Mary Lee confirmed -- even though Paul Fray is not Jewish. [NewsMax, 15 July 2000]

In the room that night were Bill Clinton; his then-girlfriend Hillary Rodham; Paul Fray, Clinton's campaign manager; and Fray's wife, Mary Lee. Another campaign worker, Neill McDonald, was just outside the door and heard everything. [Daily News, 17 July 2000] Paul Fray is a Baptist but his heritage is Jewish; his paternal grandmother was Jewish, and Bill and Hillary knew of his heritage.

Mary Lee Fray said that Hillary not only used an anti-Semitic slur but she shouted it so loudly "it rattled the walls." "It was very clear," she said. "Bill Clinton's face became white as a ghost." [FOXNews.com, AP and New York Post, 18 July 2000]

Former Clinton campaign aide Neill McDonald, who has always been a Clinton supporter [Jewish World Review, 19 July 2000], confirmed the story, according to the New York Daily News. [Reuters, 17 July 2000] He heard the obscenity as he stood outside the room. [FOXNews.com, AP, New York Post, 18 July 2000]

Sources in Arkansas told mainstream reporters as early as 1999 about Hillary Clinton's use of anti-Semitic language, but they and their editors decided to withhold the bombshell revelation from the American people. [NewsMax, 18 July 2000]

Vanity Fair writer Gail Sheehy, who has enjoyed special access to Mrs. Clinton over the years, interviewed Mary Lee Fray for her book Hillary's Choice. Sheehy told Newsday that even though Mary Lee's account included Mrs. Clinton's vile slur, her husband made no mention of it in a separate interview. Sheehy does not say that Mr. Fray denied the story -- only that the subject did not come up. Apparently the author herself decided to avoid the topic, thereby ruling out any chance that a second source for Hillary's anti-Semitic shocker would compel publication. [NewsMax, 18 July 2000]

Sheehy said that she had heard the story of the alleged anti-Semitic comment several years ago from Fray's wife. But Sheehy said she left it out of her book because it was "off the wall. It was totally without credibility." [NewsMax, 18 July 2000]

NBC-TV's Andrea Mitchell admitted that Fray recounted the incident, complete with Hillary's anti-Semitic slur, during an interview for the network's "Dateline NBC" program in 1999. But NBC News editors decided to kill the report on the sensational allegation because the story lacked corroboration, Mitchell said. [NewsMax, 18 July 2000]

The folks at NBC must not have tried too hard to substantiate Fray's account, since his wife, Mary Lee, was more than willing to corroborate the charge -- as she has for dozens of reporters since the story resurfaced. [NewsMax, 18 July 2000]

One-time Clinton consultant Dick Morris gave Gail Sheehy an exclusive account of his now legendary story about Hillary's use of a Jewish stereotype during an argument she had with him. "Money -- that's all you people care about is money," Morris said Hillary yelled after he asked for a pay raise in 1986. In November 1999 Morris went public with the story, noting that he'd told it to Sheehy for her then-upcoming Hillary biography, Hillary's Choice. But when the book hit the stands in December, Morris's explosive report was nowhere to be found. [NewsMax, 18 July 2000]"

comment #53

Anonymous says ...

Real nice library they've got on fantasy island, a hardcore anti-semitic elected in Jewish stronghold of NY, who'd've thunk it.

Point is that the mainstream press has been actively promoting Clinton's candidacy, not Hollywood elites (mythical creatures inhabiting Wingnut fantasy island), & they have done so to hurt the image of Democrats, and this (gasp) is because they are big corporate rightwing leaning entities. In her public comments Clinton has urged the creation of a Palestinian state (pre-senate, subject to distortion by her enemies as somehow anti-semitic) to her most recent servile bootlicking of the invasion, like 90% of her fellow congress-people.

comment #54

Daniel Zelter says ...

Chris: "What's irrational, is that based on every post I read from you on this subject, it appears you believe all Catholics are anti-semitic and child molesters. That's certainly the paranoid vibe you give."

I just said certain priests are molestors and anti-Semitic.

"Are you equally demanding of Hindus, Muslims, Bhuddists, Orthodox Jews etc ?"

I haven't heard of any cases of gay people getting ex-communicated or being forced to "become" straight by those religions. And while the latter religions have varying interpretations of how women are to be treated, they don't all have one person at the top dictating how women should live, to the extent that they can't even take the morning-after pill when they've been raped.

"I find it ironic that the Pope is condemned while the Dalai Lama (who is every bit as socially conservative as the Pope) gets a free pass."

The Dalai Lama actually speaks out against social injustice. The Pope just tolerates it to maintain the status quo.

Anyway, Newsmax and the NY Post are bullshit sources of information.

comment #55

Nicol D says ...

Daniel,

If you can't read your last post and see how hateful it is; how filled it is with misinformation, lies and double standards...

Man, I feel sorry you.

Who quoted Newsmax and the Post? The Dalai Lama is opposed to both SSM and abortion. His views are the same as the pope. I do not say that is right or wrong morally ...just a fact.

Most other world religions agree on these issues. Feel free not to. It's your choice.

Remember Dan, no one forces anyone to become a Catholic. No one forces them to follow its tenets. If you disagree then do not join.

That goes for all religions.

If a woman/man wants to be a Catholic, Orthodox Jew, Muslim etc. Let them. It's none of your concern. Many women are opposed to abortion. Feel free to disagree.

It's that simple. They do not force anything on you, so do not try to force anything on them.

Live and let live, man.

I rarely post here, but I read a lot. And man...your posts against Catholics are rather pathetic.

I am sorry you are filled with so much hate and prejudice.

Peace, man.

comment #56

Christopher Giardino says ...

Daniel,

Yeah, lighten up. Nic above is correct. You should live and let. Catholics aren't forced to be Catholics. Don't force them to be you.

Best.

comment #57

Jesse says ...

"I haven't heard of any cases of gay people getting ex-communicated or being forced to "become" straight by those religions."

You're right Daniel, Muslim extremists don't excommunicate homosexuals, they execute them. Not to mention throw acid in the faces of women without veils, and kill women who have been raped in order to save their honor.

You probably also haven't heard about the armed Hindu forces in Sri Lanka and Indonesia that have been attacking churches, not to mention torturing and killing native Christians in order to get them to convert back to Hinduism.

Or Bhutan, where the Buddhist government regularly jails, tortures, and kills Christians.

Or how about Afghanistan where Abdul Rahman, who faced the death penalty for apostasy after he converted to Christianity?

Yes, Christianity and Catholicism have been responsible for some seriously evil things throughout history, no question. But they are not the only religious group to commit atrocities in the name of their faith. If you're going to make bold statements you should know what the fuck you're talking about.

comment #58

Anonymous says ...

"If you can't read your last post and see how hateful it is; how filled it is with misinformation, lies and double standards..."

sounds like a nicky d post to me!

comment #59

Anonymous says ...

On second thought, to be a real bona fide Nicky D post you'd have to throw in inappropriate comparisons, fallacious reasoning, a generous helping of generic stupidity, & obsequious adoration of authority.

comment #60

Daniel Zelter says ...

Nicol: "Who quoted Newsmax and the Post?"

Exactly.

" The Dalai Lama is opposed to both SSM and abortion. His views are the same as the pope."

The Dalai Lama doesn't force his people to live a certain way.

"Remember Dan, no one forces anyone to become a Catholic. No one forces them to follow its tenets."

The Pope did 6-800 years ago.

"Many women are opposed to abortion. Feel free to disagree.It's that simple. They do not force anything on you"

Not me, personally, but certain pharmacists force women who want birth control and morning after pills to move to other states, because they find it unethical to "abort" a fucking sperm cell.

Jesse: "You're right Daniel, Muslim extremists don't excommunicate homosexuals, they execute them."

And so do Christian extremists. What's your point?

"Not to mention throw acid in the faces of women without veils,"

And Christian extremists burned women suspected of witchcraft.

"and kill women who have been raped in order to save their honor."

And Christian extremists kill women who have been raped by forcing them to survive on the street, because they don't believe in giving them welfare.

"You probably also haven't heard about the armed Hindu forces in Sri Lanka and Indonesia that have been attacking churches,and killing native Christians in order to get them to convert back to Hinduism."

And "Christians" within the KKK burn black churches. Plus I'll throw in the Kristallnacht.

"Or Bhutan, where the Buddhist government regularly jails, tortures, and kills Christians."

One word: Guantanamo.

"Or how about Afghanistan where Abdul Rahman, who faced the death penalty for apostasy after he converted to Christianity?"

And we're ready to execute Jose Padilla for converting to Islam.

"Yes, Christianity and Catholicism have been responsible for some seriously evil things throughout history, no question. But they are not the only religious group to commit atrocities in the name of their faith."

They're not the only group, but they killed the most people.

comment #61

Anonymous says ...

"They're not the only group, but they killed the most people."

I can't wait to hear how you qualify, much less prove that weak, ignorant, juvenile, and uninformed statement.

An earlier post to you which still applies:

"If you can't read your last post and see how hateful it is; how filled it is with misinformation, lies and double standards..."

comment #62

Daniel Zelter says ...

"I can't wait to hear how you qualify, much less prove that weak, ignorant, juvenile, and uninformed statement."

6 million Jews, 20 million American Indians, countless Muslims, plus blacks on the Middle Passage. Can the Muslims and Hindus top that?

"If you can't read your last post and see how hateful it is; how filled it is with misinformation, lies and double standards..."

Frankly, I consider it to be a double standard that conservative Christians complain about liberals playing the "moral relativism" game; because when they're caught being anything but conservative or Christian, they try to give me some "perspective" by citing other examples of human follies by non-Christians.

comment #63

Jesse says ...

It isn't moral relativism, it is perspective. And frankly you need perspective. The world is not as cut and dry as you want it to be. If you want to hate a certain religion or race, be my guest. But if you'd take off your blinders, you'd see that every race and religion has committed the worst kind of atrocities and is deserving of an equal amount of scorn. You are just as bigoted as any anti-semite, but your brand of bigotry is socially acceptable.

And as for your point. I think you're confusing Caucasians with Christians.

comment #64

Daniel Zelter says ...

"But if you'd take off your blinders, you'd see that every race and religion has committed the worst kind of atrocities and is deserving of an equal amount of scorn."

True. It's just that Christians have been the most active about committing atrocities for a while now.

"You are just as bigoted as any anti-semite,"

Not really, since my comments are based on facts, not stereotypes. If you don't like being labelled as sexist, racist, and homophobic, then stand up against those who are, instead of voting them into office.

"but your brand of bigotry is socially acceptable."

It's not that it's socially acceptable. It's that the respect people had for the institution has long gone with dipshits like Falwell and Swaggart.

comment #65

Anonymous says ...

If sweeping generalities and opinions can be called facts, then I suppose you're right.

comment #66

Daniel Zelter says ...

"If sweeping generalities and opinions can be called facts, then I suppose you're right."

Yeah well, the religious right weren't complaining when their leaders were running on the sweeping generalization that, "If the gays are allowed to marry, bestiality will also be legalized." Or when their spokespersons like Coulter were openly advocating forcing Muslims to convrt to Christianity.

comment #67

Anonymous says ...

You're hopeless