comment #1

Daniel Zelter says ...

Ugh, it might not be a good idea to call yourself a "storyteller" like Shyamalan. And what limitations, Kevin? You haven't once taken a chance on Green Hornet or Fletch. You just played it safe by going for the kinds of movies you trashed John Hughes for doing at his nadir.

comment #2

Kevin Smith says ...

Um... when did I trash John Hughes for doing anything, either at his zenith or nadir? I'm on record as being pro-director Hughes across the boards - even "She's Having a Baby".

"Fletch Won" I wanted to do, and absolutely would have... had I been allowed to cast Jason Lee. No Lee, and the "Fletch" feature loses its luster (for me, at least).

And as far as taking chances on "Green Hornet"... that's a rather specious argument. Some would say that making a sequel to "Clerks" is taking a chance, as one runs the risk of making a flick that sucks, which in turn alienates the fans of the original. Either way, my gut was telling me to do "Clerks II", not "Green Hornet". And since my gut's rather large, I tend to listen to it.

The whole "He didn't take a chance and make 'Green Hornet'..." seems silly to me. I love to READ comics, yes; but I love to MAKE talky, low-budget flicks. Not wanting to confuse the two isn't me not taking a chance, it's me being me. Why's that bring out your venom?

Feel free to direct "Green Hornet" in my place, sir. The gig's open. And if you do, I'll extend you the courtesy of not turding all over you at every mention of your name in the HE comments sections.

Christ... everyone's an armchair agent.

comment #3

Kevin Smith says ...

"A man should be what he can do."

And what I can do is what I did: "Clerks II".

I appreciate the vote of confidence, Jeff, but at this moment in time, I've got nothing Woolfian to say about "a Gen X marriage gone bad" (besides - you had "The Breakup" two months back; didn't that cover the subject matter for the time being?).

However, I do appreciate the career advice I've been the recipient of here at HE today. Between you suggesting scripts I should write and the other guy telling me I'm not taking chances by not making "Green Hornet", I think I may finally be on the right track. Good thing, too: I was under the mistaken impression I'd been doing alright for the last twelve years.

comment #4

Anonymous says ...

Haha... Daniel Zelter gets slammed.

comment #5

Zac Bertschy says ...

For what it's worth, I think it's refreshing to hear a filmmaker be honest about the kinds of films he wants to make and then making those films rather than living up to whatever ridiculous hyperbolic unreasonable "expectations" the internet and the film community at large might have of him.

It doesn't always have to be about "taking chances" or whatever to appease the "community"; art is what the artist wants it to be, and I think there's some nobility in standing up and saying "This is the artist I am" rather than attempting to jump through whatever flaming hoops your critics want you to jump through.

comment #6

CCA says ...

Look at Kevin Smith breaking out both the "you direct it" (read: I work, you don't so don't say shit to me) AND "I'm successfull" (read: I make movies and you don't) arguments in practically the same breath.

Man, I fucking hate those arguments. I can't play baseball even a lick, but I still know Julian Tavarez of the Red Sox is a shitty relief pitcher, even if he can pitch better than me and has made a lot of money doing so. If someone working in the film business is going to respond to the layman this way, then why post at a blog where regular people post, because after all, we can't say shit to you?

As for your work, I'm sorry you're content at the level you reached twelve years ago. Not because I think you're unfufilled or struggling but because I (me, me, me) am disapointed you haven't delivered on the (again, as perceived by ME) promise of CLERKS. Good for you that you have a nice life writing stories and selling merchandise, God bless, but I reached the same conclusion (that you do what you do, and that's all you'll ever do) a long time ago. Forgive me if I -- lo those many years ago -- thought yor work might continue to speak to me like CLERKS did.

BTW, here's my career advice: Do stand-up or something of that ilk, because you're a damned entertaining speaker, son.

comment #7

Monty says ...

I've just never understood why there was so much Kev-bashing on the internet. Maybe people see him as one of their own, and criticise him for not doing what they would have done... but that just doesn't sit well with me. I've always been a fan of his work, and appreciated every film for what it was. I'll go down the list if you want...

Clerks - low budget slacker flick, looked as bad as could be expected on said-budget, but skills as a writer of dialogue were firmly on display.

Mallrats - a fun teen comedy that was around four years ahead of time, but still manages to be somehow different to any recent entries in this genre. Had it been released around American Pie time, it would have made similar amounts of money.

Chasing Amy - a brilliant relationship drama, that delivered heaps of laughs and great performances.

Dogma - he doesn't take risks? He got death threats for daring to tell a very personal story that does exactly the same as Chasing Amy: it makes you laugh and it makes you think, and is performed well across the board.

Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - a very funny film, and it looked pretty damn good as well.

Jersey Girl - sure, it told a similar story to things we've seen before, but it WAS different, and it WAS well-told, and it looked REALLY good.

Across all six films so far (haven't seen Clerks 2 yet), he's shown a marked improvement in each, both in getting even better at writing dialogue, and even better in framing a shot and moving a camera. He may not be 'stretching himself,' but I see no reason why he couldn't in the future, and that he will have more than enough skill to do it.

Until then, I'm happy to watch the films he continues to make. Stretching or no stretching, for two hours he entertains me and that's all I ask for.

comment #8

Osama bin Laden says ...

See, Smith embraces his shortcomings as a filmmaker. he knows he has very little talent and is happy with the little he can do. the rest of you American jackals should follow suit with this puny, fat man and realize you too are inferior as he admits to being.

comment #9

Harry Lime says ...

Isn't it nice for a filmmaker to get advice from message posters including the author of the website himself who have never once made a movie...but no doubt have a shelf full of unproduced screenplays that apparently are too brilliant to see the light of day? There are reasons why some people are critics and will remain so while others do something with their talents...like make movies a lot of people apparently love, like, and/or respect...and not to mention make money!

comment #10

Tim Burton says ...

I make movies for a living. My movies have made WAY more money than Kevin Smith's. I think he's talentless. By Harry Lime's logic, I win. End of argument.

comment #11

Daniel Zelter says ...

Kevin: Weren't you making fun of Home Alone? So what the f**k was Jersey Girl? And how can a guy who's proven himself in a popular NBC sitcom not be the lead? Is Universal that stupid? Well ok, that might be considered a rhetorical question, given their last 3 years at the box office, but still..

As for Clerks 2, fine, but I would have prefered the animated film. I think the only reason I'm likely to see it is because I wanted a real ending from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

"I love to READ comics, yes; but I love to MAKE talky, low-budget flicks."

Singer was able to do both kinds of movies. I'm sure you can, too. (Well except for Superman Returns, but you've been in the same boat, so I guess it was just one of those projects which wasn't meant to happen.)

"Feel free to direct "Green Hornet" in my place, sir."

I'd love to, but it'll probably go to that guy who directed Ultraviolet.

"And if you do, I'll extend you the courtesy of not turding all over you at every mention of your name in the HE comments sections."

Actually, I'm a lot less critical than some people, because I'm a fan who just wants to see
you move up like Raimi, not down like Burton.

Monty: "Dogma - he doesn't take risks? He got death threats for daring to tell a very personal story that does exactly the same as Chasing Amy: it makes you laugh and it makes you think, and is performed well across the board."

And it's got better pacing than The Da Vinci Code.

"Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - a very funny film,"

That's debatable.

"Jersey Girl - sure, it told a similar story to things we've seen before, but it WAS different,"

I saw some legal clips of it online, and it seemed duller than Full House.

comment #12

Anonymous says ...

Jersey Girl is a good (or bad) film that had something to say about being a man and a father. Home Alone is a fucking awesome, but goddamn simplistic and stupid, mainstream comedy that only has one thing to say. A kid can ward off two career criminals through a crazy assortment of mouse trap style shenanigans (that would kill a normal person in half the time). Jersey Girl has some level of ambition (even if you think it's a piece of shit). Home Alone does not.

And I did have to wonder if someone would greenlight Fleth Won now that Jason Lee is doing well. Although, A Guy Thing and Stealing Harvard were awful financial failures. Hopefully people will forget about that.

Kissing a Fool is entertaining in a "I'll watch it on Comedy Central on a hungover Sunday afternoon or if it shows up on Tivo recomends."

comment #13

Kevin Smith says ...

One post, to cover all the bases...

The No-Name Guy wrote: "Haha... Daniel Zelter gets slammed."

I write: Hardly. I certainly wasn't spoiling for a fight; just correcting what I saw as misinformation (re: Hughes movies and "Fletch Won").

Let's not turn this into something it wasn't, though. I'm getting too old for internet battles, y'know? In the words of the poet: "My name is Kool Rock, and I'm a lover not a fighter."

Zac wrote: "For what it's worth, I think it's refreshing to hear a filmmaker..."

I write: Thanks for the props, sir.

CCA wrote: "Look at Kevin Smith breaking out both the "you direct it" (read: I work, you don't so don't say shit to me) AND "I'm successfull" (read: I make movies and you don't) arguments in practically the same breath."

I write: That wasn't the aim, but in re-reading what I wrote, I guess it could be taken that way. It wasn't the intention. The "You direct it" part was more tongue-in-cheek; not a throwing-down of the gauntlet. The "I'm successful" part was just pure wise-assery.

CCA also wrote: "As for your work, I'm sorry you're content at the level you reached twelve years ago."

I write: Gonna have to disagree with you here. If what you're saying is that I haven't done anything but the same movie for a dozen years, that's just silly. "Chasing Amy" is as different from "Clerks" as "Dogma" is from "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" and "Jersey Girl". The "level" that I'm happy with working on is simply this: I like making talky movies about relationships. That's why I got into film in the first place: to make films of that nature.

If, however, the point you're making is that I've not gone beyond those types of films, then yes - you're right. But honestly? I've never aspired to.

CCA also wrote: "Not because I think you're unfufilled or struggling but because I (me, me, me) am disapointed you haven't delivered on the (again, as perceived by ME) promise of CLERKS."

I write: I (ME) do appreciate you stressing that this is your opinion. The 'net would be a much nicer place if more people took the time to do the same.

However, I don't understand what promise you saw in "Clerks" that I never delivered on. I feel that "Clerks" promised nothing but dialogue-heavy flicks that (hopefully) make you laugh. It's not like anyone could've possibly watched "Clerks" and said "One day, this guy's gonna give us the next 'Star Wars'." A film about people talking about the next "Star Wars"? Sure. But I truly feel I've lived up to whatever unspoken promise I made/showed with "Clerks": I still make talky, (hopefully) funny films.

CCA also wrote: "Good for you that you have a nice life writing stories and selling merchandise, God bless, but I reached the same conclusion (that you do what you do, and that's all you'll ever do) a long time ago. Forgive me if I -- lo those many years ago -- thought yor work might continue to speak to me like CLERKS did."

I write: Can't say much to that except that maybe "Clerks II" can do that. But if my flicks are no longer your cup of tea, I'd understand you having zero desire in checking the new one out.

Then, CCA closed with: "BTW, here's my career advice: Do stand-up or something of that ilk, because you're a damned entertaining speaker, son."

I write: Thanks, man. But comedians stand before an audience and generate. All I do is answer questions.

Monty wrote: "Across all six films so far (haven't seen Clerks 2 yet), he's shown a marked improvement in each, both in getting even better at writing dialogue, and even better in framing a shot and moving a camera."

I write: Careful there, Monty: you're being too reasonable. That kinda behavior might get you kicked off the internet.

Thanks for the kind (and what I feel are true) words.

Osama wrote: "See, Smith embraces his shortcomings as a filmmaker. he knows he has very little talent and is happy with the little he can do. the rest of you American jackals should follow suit with this puny, fat man and realize you too are inferior as he admits to being."

I write: How can someone be puny and fat at the same time?

Oh, right... my dick.

Harry Lime wrote: "Isn't it nice for a filmmaker to get advice from message posters including the author of the website himself who have never once made a movie..."

I write: CCA had a point. It's not like I make the flicks to put on a shelf, never to be seen. Manufacture for use. Once I put 'em out there, I gotta expect folks will have an opinion on what I do. And sometimes, that opinion won't be particularly pretty.

However, once folks put their opinion out there, they've gotta expect I might not agree with it, and might express that, from time to time: a critique of the critique, if you will.

"Tim Burton" wrote: "I make movies for a living. My movies have made WAY more money than Kevin Smith's. I think he's talentless. By Harry Lime's logic, I win. End of argument."

I write: That was more entertaining than the "Planet of the Apes" remake.

For the record, though: I think Tim Burton really is a way better filmmaker than me. I think most filmmakers are way better filmmakers than me (PTA included, naturally). Just felt I needed to put that out there, as some people seem to think that because I've cracked wise about my "betters" that I don't respect what they do or their craftsmanship. Not so.

The man who started it all, Daniel Zelter, wrote: "Weren't you making fun of Home Alone?"

I write: In "Dogma"? Yes. But like I wrote in my first post: "I'm on record as being pro-director Hughes across the boards - even 'She's Having a Baby'." Maybe it's splitting hairs, but "Home Alone" wasn't directed by Hughes.

Daniel Zelter also wrote: "So what the f**k was Jersey Girl?"

I write: Not your brand of whimsy, I take it.

Daniel Zelter then went on to write: "And how can a guy who's proven himself in a popular NBC sitcom not be the lead?"

I write: Sir, you're preaching to the choir. Talk to Harvey.

Daniel Zelter then wrote: "As for Clerks 2, fine, but I would have prefered the animated film."

I write: For the moment. Perhaps you'll wind up liking the flick more than you currently imagine you can. I've been getting a lot of that from journos for the last few weeks, during the press tour. Even if you don't, however, I appreciate you giving it a shot regardless.

Daniel Zelter wrote: "Singer was able to do both kinds of movies. I'm sure you can, too."

I write: Brian Singer is a much better filmmaker than me, and he has an interest in making larger films. I don't. I didn't get into film to make bombastic flicks. I love watching flicks like that, but have zero interest in making one.

Daniel Zelter wrote further: "Actually, I'm a lot less critical than some people, because I'm a fan who just wants to see
you move up like Raimi, not down like Burton."

I write: See my Singer comment above, and swap "Raimi" for "Singer".

The No Name guy wrote: "Jersey Girl is a good (or bad) film that had something to say about being a man and a father."

I like your take on it, sir. Most people simply dismiss it as "Gigli 2". I get that there are plenty folks who didn't like the movie, but I do honestly believe that had I pulled the Stephen King/Richard Bachman switch and released that movie under a pseudonym, the reviews wouldn't have been nearly as harsh. Sure, the box office would've been the same, but the flick wouldn't have been written off with stuff like "How could the guy who made 'Dogma' make something this conventional and lame?" or "This is a movie Dante and Randal would've made fun of in 'Clerks'."

This has been fun. I thank all for not smelling blood in the water and turning this into an AICN Talkbacks feeding frenzy. I feel like, even though some of us disagree, we were able to do so with little bitchiness. You HE comments sections folks are alright in my book.

comment #14

Kevin Smith says ...

Christ, that was a long post. Jeff, you've gotta get some kinda quotable text PHP thing format going on here, so the responses are easier to make/look at.

That's right: now I'm telling YOU how to run YOUR kitchen, bitch.

Tee-hee...

comment #15

Anonymous says ...

I saw some footage around SXSW with Smith talking to Rodrigues and Tarantino. Smith was self depracating to the point of apologizing. Tarantino was into the conversatipon and offering funny advice. Rodrigues was posing in a doorway in a lazy but entirely self-conscience way. Smith is a charming and talented guy. Rodrigues needs to go away. He's an artless hack.

comment #16

Anonymous says ...

Glad you like my take on it. I saw it on a plane on the way home from Comic Con 2004. I ended up sitting next to a beautiful chick and we had a Before Sunset sort of thing on a plane (not as good as snakes -- but I'm all about settling). She ended up crying at the pan and scan, edited version of the film. I just remember being baffled at how impressed I was with the movie (I had put off seeing it because I loved all the View Askew movies and I was terrified of having to not like one of your movies -- I call it the "Elizabethtown effect"). I'm a fan of the Affleck, even though I hate Lopez (everything non-Out of Sight) but I would have cast her, too. That's why I'm doing the anonymous thing.

comment #17

Anonymous says ...

Being "baffled by how I impressed was with the movie" doesn't mean I thought it was a classic by any means. I just thought it was a funny, smart, character movie that would have dissapeared in a storm of indifference and a small fan base if it hadn't followed Gigli or had another name in the writer/director slot.

comment #18

Scott says ...

As a huge fan of Kevin Smith's movies and a rather large (metaphorically and slightly physically) geek in my own right, I think a lot of the internet dissatisfaction with Kevin's filmaking is the perception that he is one of us.

Now, anyone who has watched his films, heard him speak in person or on DVD or on internet message boards can interpret "us" in a variety of ways. And since I or we or whatever pronoun one could use doesn't really know him or could really ever be him or even anything remotely as successful he has been, it is easy to extrapolate whatever issues we have with either personal, "real" filmmaking or big budget, fantasy studio filmmaking onto him. He can often become a surrogate for whatever we in our own minds would do in his position or whatever we imagine his position to be.

If you look beyond the films he has made (which I really think are really good) to those he has tried to make (including an attempt at Superman), one can see that he has attempted to do things that could be percieved as greater than the films he has released, but for whatever reasons didn't quite work out.

As it stands, what you can expect from Kevin Smith are either poignant character dramas or zany madcap comedies (or a combination of the two) with witty yet highly stylized dialogue and (I'm sorry) flat, basic visuals. He has found his voice and his place in the medium and even if he never ventures outside his niche, I can almost always count on an entertaining two hours from Kevin Smith.

Also, I'm long-winded and drunk.

comment #19

Dixon Steele says ...

Smith is a talented guy, but it's amazing how much envy he generates with some of these posts. And yeah, it's envy.

Because he's out there, actually making features and getting paid the big bucks and all the perks that come with the career.

And guys like CCA and Zelter...enough said.

My own take on KS is that his movies are hit & miss, for me at least.

Loved CLERKS. Hated MALLRATS.
Loved AMY. Hated DOGMA.
Enjoyed JAY & SILENT BOB. JERSEY GIRL...wasn't THAT bad.

So I'm thinking CLERKS 2 will be a winner, but Kevin, for God's sake, what's with that wretched trailer. I've seen it three times and the audience all but boos it off the screen each time. One of the all time worst.

comment #20

Colin says ...

Hmmm...just reading through Entertainment Weekly and saw that on the re-release of Road House on DVD (with Road House 2!), there's a commentary track with Kevin Smith and Scott Mosier. I've got to put that on the queue now.

As for Smith as a writer-director, I've liked everything he's done. Keep up the good work. I'm a big fan, and I know many others in the same boat.

comment #21

dullea says ...

In fairness to KS, while I have mixed feelings about his work, I don't see why he should change. He has his own taste/approach and people are just telling him to remove the things that don't jive with their taste and keeps the things that do. That's bullshit. Personally, I find the more ingratiating, cute moments (his Silent Bob acting style post-Chasing Amy fits in here) in Smith's films really irritating, while I really like the more naturalistic, real world material. I guess Jeff is identifying a similar preference. But, come on, the guy's a big fan of 80s comedies, not Harold Pinter. I guess the frustration is that some people just want him to be a different guy, but do you really want to see him pretend to be something he's not?

By the way, here's that Tarantino/Rodriguez clip. They're showing genuine enthusiasm and, while it's a bit weird to record and post clips of other people enjoying your work ("see, people like me!"), it does accomplish the goal of dismissing some criticism ("You think you know more about movies than Quentin Tarantino? No, you don't."). Then again, QT did think Domino was one of the best movies of 2005...so what does he know?

http://www.dvblog.org/movies/01_2006/clerks/goodbadman.mov

comment #22

Matthew Jordan says ...

I love Kevin and his movies; when all's said and done, I think he'll wind up being one of the definitive voices of his generation.

But I hate when he does stuff like this.

comment #23

Anonymous says ...

Dixon Steele: "And guys like CCA and Zelter...enough said."

Really? And how does what you wrote differ from what I wrote? Your alternate liking and disliking KS's movies and Clerks II trailer is clearly based on envy as well! See how all encompassing that (fucking stupid) argument is? This is the point I was making with the Tim Burton post (which was a joke, btw) opinions are like assholes ... everyone has one. Just don't fucking run out the "you haven't done it so you can't criticize it" argument, because it's a flacid cop out. I haven't run a country either but I can't opine on the president? Fuck you (and by 'you" I mean anyone who would tell me that)!

Look, sure I'm envious of Kevin Smith but it doesn't shape my opinion of his movies. I'm also envious of Brian Azzarello (for instance) too but I love his work so's I don't say shit about him. Kevin's clearly a stand-up guy to come here and talk. I think that's cool. I also think it's cool he does it without accusing me of being envious of him. I just wish his movies were as entertaining as he appears to be. BTW, KS, I won't be seeing Clerks II because I don't think blowing donkey's is funny. Sorry, cuz.

comment #24

CCA says ...

Whoops! That's me in the above post.

comment #25

akabob says ...

I have to say I've been surprised at the venom launched at Kevin Smith not just in this site but around the net. Smith makes very funny, wise-cracking jabber-jaw movies and to ask for more than that seems gluttonous to me. I haven't seen "Jersey Girl" and ran in horror from "Mallrats" but the rest have been really funny, especially "Chasing Amy". I'll be seeing "Clerks II" (after "Miami Vice") next weekend and thank you Kevin for casting the supercalifragilistic Rosario Dawson.

comment #26

Frank says ...

Didn't I read that Jason Lee was no longer interested in Fletch Won... that he was past that part in his life?

Also, as an aside, whether or not you like the movies you can't ignore that Smith makes scenes pop. I personally think screenwriters should be seeking him out to help create scenes crackle... it's not career advice, just a thought.

If I were to ever write a screenplay on the level of Clerks or Chasing Amy (which most of us never will) or something as thought-provoking as Dogma (really a great picture, that covered a lot of the ground that Dan Brown gets into, to more amusing and stimulating degree), I'd be satisified with my lot too.

comment #27

Steven F says ...

Personally, I love Kevin's work and I'm sure Clerks will be a lot better than some of the crazy blockbusters out there like the Da Vinci Code, ugh.

comment #28

Scott Weinberg says ...

I say give it up for someone who not only recognizes and accepts where his talents lie, but also finds great satisfaction in hanging out there.

I've seen Clerks 2. If Clerks 1 is a 4.5 out of 5 (and I think it is), then C2 is (at the very least) a 3.5. And throw in an extra half-star for Dawson's sunny/sexy performance. Better to have a sequel from the original creator than a studio-cobbled in-name-only hack-job, yes?

And I'm not being a Smithers here. Mallrats still doesn't do it for me and JSBSB really runs out of steam in my eyes, but overall I think Smith has a better batting average than most directors after seven trips to the plate. Plus, as mentioned previously, the guy's pretty damn funny, and I find it relatively easy to like someone who's funny.

One can only take so many Adam Shankman movies.

comment #29

Darkblue says ...

Maybe Kevin has emough pull to tell the Miramax powers that be to strike some new prints of the original "clerks". When I saw it at a midnight show a year or so ago it was so spliced and scratched that it was nearly unwatchable. Seriously. Junk the old prints and get some new ones out in circulation. It's your movie man.

comment #30

moises says ...

Scott, Scott...don't mention Kevin and Adam "A Walk to Remember" Shankman in the same post, you'll give me an ulcer. You may be my SXSW homeboy, but don't jeopardize our friendship, sir.

In a summer full of disappointment and overinflated expectations, I'm glad that come Friday, I know I'm gonna get something I'll enjoy. As long as Brian O'Halloran doesn't fall to the floor in a Christ pose, I think we'll be fine.

comment #31

ArchiveGuy says ...

As someone who's been seriously underwhelmed by Mr. Smith's films since "Dogma" (which itself was a mess, but an interesting one), I'd still like to extend my thanks for his reasonable and honest responses here. I'm glad he appears to be happy with what he's accomplished thus far, and just because I think his latest films have been more facile than I'd like (hopefully, a temporary slump) doesn't for one second mean I wish him any kind of ill will, personally or professionally. He's always struck me as a nice and fairly classy guy, so there you go.

comment #32

jaz says ...

He sounds lovely and is welcome round mine to meet my mum for tea anytime.

comment #33

Mike OToole says ...

Kevin is a humble dude, and a fine filmmaker. Very nice meeting you at CN8 in Brookline,MA (Boston) last month, sir.