comment #1

Dixon Steele says ...

Because there are no stars in it, Gibson's gonna have to push this himself.

And what will that be like? He's gonna get hammered on every show he visits.

And remember, this one doesn't have the huge built in audience like PASSION did.

comment #2

me says ...

I am already sick of all of this. So the guy is a bigot...big deal. We all are. In our own ways. He's an alcoholic and has been for years. TONS of people are. Just because he's Mel Gibson is the only fucking reason ANYONE is talking about this shit. I for one will be there opening weekend, whenever Disney releases this probable masterpiece of filmmaking. Mel Gibson is a fucking artist when it comes to directing motion pictures and judging solely from the trailer and on-set stills, this movie will be no exception. We all need get over this shit.

comment #3

Anonymous says ...

Anti-Semitic dinosaur

comment #4

Anna says ...

Have you seen the polls at all the various sites? All of them are running in favor of Gibson. Entertainment Weekly has never liked Mel. That is no surprise. If he goes on Diane Sawyer and does a talk/cry from his heart, and has a couple of rabbis that he has won over standing with him (Mel can be very charming when he wants to be), that will go along way towards the public rehabilitation. He will probably take the rabbis along with him on the movies pr tour.

comment #5

Daniel Zelter says ...

Apocalypto would flop, even if Mel didn't screw up. If no one's gonna see New World, what would motivate them to see this?

comment #6

Mathew says ...

I don't know, shouldn't Mel's mad rampage make Apocalypto all the more intriguing? I had little interest in Passion but Apocalypto does intrigue me since no other film has been made detailing the fall of the Mayan civilization.

comment #7

Mathew says ...

"If no one's gonna see New World, what would motivate them to see this?"

You never know. At least Gibson knows how to enthrall his audience. I like Badlands and Days of Heaven but Malick lost his touch between then and The Thin Red Line; a film that I have a hard time making it past the 30 minute mark with.

comment #8

c fontana says ...

The violence of Gibson's [anti-Semitic] words won't allow it." ???

Violence????

I'm sorry, did Gibson actually make any threatening remarks towards Jews? Seems like he made a few off-hand 'observations,' or shared some biased opinions, rather.

Please, bunch of fucking self-righteous fucking whores. Gibson deserves some flack, sure, but this?...I'm turned off more by those hailing Gibson as the leader of the fourth Reich.

I grew up on LI where Jews, Italians, and Irish slung insults back and forth all through my school years...every group and person I know is bigoted in one sense or another. Let's get the fuck over it and move on. Jeff, you take the lead, you anti-Italian wasp shithead (that last remark was for demonstration purposes, btw).

comment #9

c fontana says ...

The violence of Gibson's [anti-Semitic] words won't allow it." ???

Violence????

I'm sorry, did Gibson actually make any threatening remarks towards Jews? Seems like he made a few off-hand 'observations,' or shared some biased opinions, rather.

Please, bunch of fucking self-righteous fucking whores. Gibson deserves some flack, sure, but this?...I'm turned off more by those hailing Gibson as the leader of the fourth Reich.

I grew up on LI where Jews, Italians, and Irish slung insults back and forth all through my school years...does it make it right? No, but every group and person I know or have ever come across is bigoted in one sense or another. Let's get the fuck over it and move on. Jeff, you take the lead, you anti-Italian wasp shithead (that last remark was for demonstration purposes, btw).

comment #10

Osama bin Laden says ...

And remember, this one doesn't have the huge built in audience like PASSION did.

Is this the same audience (protestant conservative Christians) that Mel has admitted in interviews that he believes are going to hell?

comment #11

Tammy says ...

This story is so utterly overblown!!! For all of his adult life, Mel has been a kind, generous, and loyal friend, and ALWAYS treats those around him with respect, including his many Jewish friends. Moreover, he has exhibited profound acts of kindness to those in need, and rarely had any of it publicized (his choice). It is patently unfair that this man's whole life and reputation should be destroyed by the press and a few jealous, sadistic people in Hollywood over this one stupid incident. He was clearly not in his right mind that fateful evening...everything he said (and there was ALOT more than just the Jewish comments), and all of his behavior was out-of-character for him. A man's life should be measured by the amount and quantity of his good deeds over a lifetime, not in one very bad night. The man was drunk!!! At this point, I submit that some members of the media are spewing far more hate that Mel's few inebriated comments did. This public scourging is downright cruel, and more than one human being can endure.

comment #12

Nicol D says ...

Assuming everyone has honourable intentions and no one wants it to flop in order to make Mel pay;

...release it sooner than later.

EW is not the voice of the nation, it is the voice of the studios PR flacks.

The above poster is right, polls on various websites are running in Mel's favour. Let's not forget, this a guy who has constantly made the top of the lists of 'public's favourite star' type polls for almost 2 decades running. You don't burn that kind of credibility overnight.

I actually think the controversy will help. If Disney releases the film in December it will be seen as a vote of confidence in its quality.

If they wait until spring, it will be perceived as them dumping it in the no man's land.

My hunch is that this flick will be good. They moved it to Oscar season for a reason. If it is brilliant, then the Academy loses face by not nominating it and awarding some safe PC film instead.

People like Barbara Walters who said she wouldn't watch any more Gibson films were most likely not watching Gibson films anyway.

I do not think people will abandon Mel so quickly, even if the industry might want to.

Even so, as I said before, I think Gibson just bought himself a whole shit load of 'edge cred' with critics.

If this film is pushed to the spring, it will be in an attempt to turf it, not help it.

As for me, I can't see it soon enough.

comment #13

Osama bin Laden says ...

This public scourging is downright cruel, and more than one human being can endure.

Yeah, gonna be real hard enduring it with his over $300 million dollar fortune. maybe he can find some solace on his own Fijian fucking island.

sorry, pretty hard for me to give a flying fuck about thetroubles of a pampered millionaire fuckhole!

comment #14

Jesse says ...

I thought Gavin de Beckers letter was good, but this piece by Larisa Alexandrovna on the Huffington Post is especially well thought out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/mirror-mirror-the-passi_b_26620.html

It ends with this:
"I take seriously Mel Gibson's reaching out to the Jewish community and requesting help to understand why he feels the way he does. I accept his apology as well. Ann Coulter has never apologized. George Bush has never apologized. Yet when someone is brave enough to apologize and ask for help in understanding what drives their anger, we shun them and dissect them in a public execution.

True racists don't care enough to reach out. They can be bought, but they will never apologize.

So while the rest of the media runs wild with Gibson the "hate monger" and in doing so ignores actual news, and actual bigotry and hatred in America, I for one would like to issue Gibson a formal invitation to visit me or my family any time, to sit with us and hear our stories, to learn something of us, who we are, and what we believe, and to perhaps allow us learn from him the nature of his views. In the meantime, I will be covering news, and I will be covering such issues as racism. I hope that others will join me. I also hope other Jews will join me in extending an invitation to Gibson. Tolerance breeds tolerance. It is really that simple."

comment #15

Mark says ...

Push it to Easter...springtime...everyone's in a good mood. I doubt there are any end-of-Mayan-civilization flicks on the horizon that'll cut into profits.

Absolutely no point in releasing in December. No awards this year.

comment #16

Anonymous says ...

This is a foreign-language pic without a clear marketing hook. The worst thing for Apocalypto is audience apathy.

Because of the overblown press coverage of l'affair Gibson and the talk of Hollywood shunning, there may be a backlash against the perceived vindictiveness of it all. People will decide NOT to boycott Gibson, and then go buy a ticket to a weird subtitled film they otherwise wouldn't see.

comment #17

Mark says ...

No one is laying down one dollar to take part in some backlash against a backlash. They will only see this thing if it garners some heat due to being a very good experience. And no groups or big-time critic will participate in generating any buzz for the flick while the director is considered the third rail.

comment #18

Mike Gebert says ...

My first thought, when I heard that Gibson's next movie was going to be some trippy Mayan thing, was: The Last Movie.

As in, Dennis Hopper's followup to Easy Rider, about a movie set going nuts in Mexico, which apparently made no sense, bombed, and has been essentially unseeable ever since. Make too big a leap from one lucky-subject-matter-zeitgeist hit to believing anything you do, even a trippy film about doom in Mexico, will be an equal hit, and the result is a major disaster.

Of course, if you actually have something cool to say, maybe you'll pull it off. But who now thinks that Gibson is an insightful thinker with some smart and anthropologically sensitive things to say about another culture?

comment #19

Andrèse says ...

People are going to go see this movie. No press is bad press. I'm predicting that his little drunken rant will make him more famous. But talkshow appearances will be a little harder. I'm betting that Barbara (gag) Walters (puke) and all her old lady crew of the View are going to eat their words and welcome Mel onto their show. It'll be funny to watch *that* episode.
People aren't going to judge him on this one mistake because he's done too many good things in his lifetime. Also, Mel Gibson is a great filmmaker and people love watching his movies. So, no amount of drunken rants can get rid of his excellent track record.

comment #20

Patrick says ...

I want to see it NOW!! Release the damn thing
already! I'll wait for December, but not April or
any date in 2007.

comment #21

Matthew Jordan says ...

Hey, c fontana...would Mel's "I'm going to fuck you" remark to the deputy be "violent" enough for you? I don't have the copy of EW handy, but the "[Anti-Semitic]" remark bracket may be Jeff's.

I'm surprised at everybody rising up to defend Mad Mel's antics. I realize that everyone has their problems, but two years ago, Mel went out of his way to tell people how un-anti Semitic he was. This move to meet with Rabbis, et. al, reeks to me of more bullshit posturing.

comment #22

Daniel Zelter says ...

Andrese: If Tom and Russell's careers are fucked are fucked, so is Mel's.

Matt: To religious Republicans, it's only a lie when Clinton does it.

comment #23

c fontana says ...

...not defending Mel so much as denouncing his attackers. 'I'm going to fuck you' is a direct attack on an individual...it wasn't "i'm going to fuck all Jews" after all...besides, I think some Hasidics might not go for that...kidding, people, kidding...

comment #24

david says ...

I somewhat agree with Jeffrey here. There is something going on behind the scenes with APOCALYPTO. Disney might be feeling the heat of putting any money into the project from others it works with in the industry.

I would also like to note that these supporters of Gibson seem to avoid or deflect discussing the issue at hand. Regardless if my has a drinking issue, the man just made a movie that's main issue was whether it was antisemetic. That said man than goes out and utters antisemitic words....Give me a break, Patrick Swayze? I could list an analogy but think the point I am making is fairly obvious

comment #25

gh says ...

Mike Gebert - - I've seen The Last Movie. It's available on out of print VHS. It's a fascinating, slow motion train wreck with one of my favorite endings ever.

comment #26

The King says ...

Whatever Mad Mel said has sweet fuck all to do with Apocalypto. I want to see Apocalypo and I want to see it ASAP. It may not be a classic but I have no doubt it will be go for broke film-making and this is a rare commodity in this day and age (particularly in 2006 thus far). As for Barbara Walters, no problemo! If that boring,pretentious old slag wants to give MM's movies the flick in favour of coozing up to George Clooney and his pack of cardboard douche bags when their prime pile of shit that will be Oceans 13 oozes out then that is her loss!

comment #27

BL says ...

If "Apocolypto" damns all its Mayan characters as a bunch of browned skinned pagans who are all going to hell - then Disney might as well release it now beacuse the people sympathetic to those kind of biases are a goodly portion of the people who have been cheering Mel on for 'having the balls to speak the truth' about the jews.

If the movie at least takes a stab at portraying some of the Mayans with a degree of respect for their religion and culture, this would probably confound and upset the bigoted segment of Mel's fans and they would most likely not support the film ANYWAY - so Disney perhaps should hold off on releasing it

When I first heard about Mel' incident, it actually made me wonder if he was drinking again because he is worried about the film and/or unhappy with the way its turned out.

comment #28

Anonymous says ...

According to a CNN poll, 60% of Americans don't care about his comments. They will still pay money to go and see his movie.

I'm guessing by next month, that number will be higher.

comment #29

DSG says ...

The only thing that pisses me off is all the non-Jewish types saying "So what?", and claiming it's all a storm in a tea-cup. Gibson insulted the Jewish people, en-masse, so its up to them to decide how insulted they are. That doesn't mean that gentiles have to agree, but what right do we have to tell Jews they're not allowed to be upset? Personally, I believe his apology, but then he wasn't blaming non-Jews like me for all the trouble in the world.

comment #30

AH says ...

The EW attitude is all "inside the beltway." Middle America, Gibson's main audience now, correctly believes that the press is giving him a raw deal.

The problem for Apocalypto isn't Gibson, its Apocalypto. Does anyone want to see a historical movie about ancient Mayan culture?

comment #31

Nate West says ...

Gibson is a gifted crackpot. But 60% of Americans don't want to see a foreign language film about Mayan culture. They don't even know what APOCALYPTO is. "They will still pay to go and see his movie." Yes, if its LETHAL WEAPON 37.

Still, MEET THE RABBIS has great potential. Now that movie I would see. An aging, drunken movie star blows up his career with a stunning racist tirade. Then he's forced to attend sensitivity sessions with two Rabbis--played by Ben Stiller and Steve Carell. Of course, the funny part is that deep down he really does hate Jews. Even funnier is that his public doesn't much mind that he hates Jews, because either they don't know any or they hate them, too. Especially fun would be the scene where Mel takes the rabbis to meet his father, the leader of the splinter group of Catholics in his private church.

To complete the casting, I see Jack Nicholson as Mel Gibson. Perhaps we could work a golf club and a shattered windshield into the mix.

comment #32

Demi Glaze says ...

Patrick Swayze is now defending Mel Gibson. That's a low blow. (Sorry, Mel; I know it must hurt.) Next up is a full court press of defenders: Saved by the Bell's Screech, Kim Fields, Tina Yothers, and Larry Storch.

comment #33

Chez Paris says ...

People all know drunks or have been drunks and said shitty things that they regret.

People don't like witchhunts. Ther eis a big demographic out there who believes had Gibson said anything about black, hispanics, asians, arabs whatever - it wouldnt have gotten the same vitriol.

There is no need to delay the film.

comment #34

Daniel Zelter says ...

Nate: Ironic you should bring that up, since apparently Dark Horizons suggests Mel's gonna be in a 5th LW.

comment #35

Jew Boy says ...

Christ had to die one way or the other.
Might as well have been the Jews that did it to him.
Of course the Jews say the Roman's did it.
But all Jews are liars, as we most definitely know... they are filled with guilt and self hatred of their past and present state in humanity.
Notice how all the Jews published articles to encourage hollywood to turn their back on poor old Mel.
They encourage the Roman's to crucify Christ, and they encourage the UN to give them the right to forcefully kick the palestinians out of their own country because they claim God gave it to them.
Yeah its sad that the jews were put in concentration camps by the nazi's and its even sadder if its true that 6 million died during the holocost, and im not saying that thats true, thats just what they want us to believe.
But look at it this way, six million people die all the time! And who are the jews to kick the poor palestinians out of their own country, inciting a war that won't go away... and now look at them bombing these poor people over some kidnapped soldiers. Theres some jews in israel just itching to bomb some poor homeless people trying to end a war they started by killing a whole country, who is the Nazi now?.
Why don't they have any decency? And no one is going to say that they are wrong, because the Jews will just turn around and call them antisemites! And aparently its worse than being murderers.
Obviously Mel Gibson is just telling the truth, the jews are the cause of all the problems in the world.
You know I'm telling the truth all you jews out there, don't lie.
The christian will go see apocalypto.
And the Jews can line up with the Gays in protest of Mel Gibson.
This is not Gaymerica, or Jewmerica this is America! Land of the Free, Home of the Brave Mel Gibson! America is about Christian Values not Jewish values! Thats why GW is in Office not some jewish guy. Jews start wars and kick people out of their own countries claiming self righteousness! We can't have any of that!
Praise the Lord! Thank you Jesus!

comment #36

Jew Girl says ...

Wow! You have a lot to say,

I do think the Jew's have a lot to answer for, but it is wrong to defend Mel Gibson. Regardless of whether he was drunk or not he should have some self control. He should know better than to say things people are bound to interpret as hateful.

People are people, Religion or Race does not define us or seperate us, we all have something to answer for and we should all be smart enough to know that stereotypes are wrong.

The truth to me is that the problems in the world are caused by those who hate and sterotype and use violence instead of words to solve their problems.
People are stubborn.
The Stubborn people are the cause of all the problems in the world!

comment #37

Rich S. says ...

I haven't been able to check the credits on IMDB yet. Is Mel Gibson listed as the only person who worked on this film? It would be too bad if we were denied the chance to see another Q'Orianka Kilcher, Haing S. Ngor, etc. because of the director's drunken rant. I'm sure Adrian Brody is thankful that Hollywood is more forgiving of sex with teenagers.

Along those same lines, I'm still waiting for NOW's condemnation of the "sugar tits" line.

comment #38

Joel says ...

I don't care about his comments, and I still plan on seeing Apacolypto.

comment #39

James says ...

Mel was drunk and wasted, but not totally drunk and so wasted with only a .12 blood alcohol. I've seen some people act crazy under the influence. Some people act in a truthful manner while others become very paranoid.

I guess that real question is: Were his statements what he really believes in his heart? Or were his statements those of a crazy paranoid, acting out his greatest fears.

comment #40

Nicol D says ...

Jodie Foster defended Mel Gibson too. I'd take her over Rob Schneider any day of the week.

And again, to put it in perspective, people are not defending what Mel said.

People are saying what he said is bad but on what moral authority does anyone in Hollywood blacklist him?

Can someone answer that question?

Child rape is okay but a drunken rant is not?

As someone above said, we are not defending Mel so much as attacking his attackers.

I mean, Mel has done more charity work than many (including financing a battered woman's shelter in North Carolina). I can't just write him off while others who are less talented and truly bad eggs get a pass.

Release Apocalypto!

comment #41

ER says ...

I'm shocked, frankly, with all the defenses of Gibson's behavior on this board. Truly shocked. I find the whole situation appalling and I (along with everyone I know, actually) will not be paying to see another Gibson film ever again.

I have a hunch that had Gibson's comments been targeted against African-Americans, Asians, or some other ethnic group, no one would be rising to his defense like this. Just goes to show that in our so-called tolerant, secular democracy, prejudice against Jews and gays is still deeply entrenched and encouraged.

Can't even finish my thoughts, because reading this board has made me truly sick.

comment #42

AH says ...

Nicol D: Well put.

comment #43

T. H. Ung says ...

Release it now? It's not ready, Mel just wrapped principal photography in June. Bet he was screaming bloody murder that Disney was rushing him with the December date. That kind of pressure could cause a director to drink. The things got to lock picture, then those poor dialogue editors got to figure out the heck to do, and so on and so on. There are going to be more PR bumps in the road for Mel, but the movie will come out -- when it's ready.

comment #44

NYCBusybody says ...

"I guess that real question is: Were his statements what he really believes in his heart? Or were his statements those of a crazy paranoid, acting out his greatest fears."

I think furthermore, the toughest question is, does one take Mel's apologies, which were well-worded and appropriate to the intensity of his comments, as also being sincere and genuinely felt?

I agree with those who say his comments should not be so easily dismissed as frivolous, but I also think that if a person deeply apologizes for such statements and strongly posits that his alcohol-fueled rant is either not truly what is in his heart, or that he desires to change his heart, one should give him the benefit of the doubt. Forgiveness of intolerance, when genuinely asked for, is as important as tolerance itself.

Question is, does Mel genuinely want to change, or is it just an obvious PR stunt necessitated by embarrasment and near career-suicide? I tend to believe him, for now, and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

comment #45

Sasha says ...

Let me say before I begin that I am Jewish. I know that won't wash with some people, but there it is.

First, if Mel's attackers succeed in having him blacklisted, it will confirm, at least in the minds of Mel and other bigots, that Jew's have the power and are capable of destroying extremely high-profile and lucrative careers because that person said something bad about them.

Second, it will confirm, again in the minds of bigots, that Jews are ruthless when crossed.

Third, all of the above will only entrench hatred towards Jews by confirming, in the minds of bigots, their own prejudices.

The man has apologized. We humans are incapable of looking into the heart of someone and judging their sincerity. Only G-d has that capability, so we should leave the judging to Him, and accept his apology. As someone said above, tolerance breeds tolerance. It is as simple as that.

comment #46

ArchiveGuy says ...

Whether it's this fall or next spring, Mel is poison to this film's publicity. He can't do the talk circuit either time, so Disney is best off playing up the action/violence/sex/conflict/whatever of the film, and burying his name and association. This already had a niche audience from the get-go, so the only thing that will get the more mainstream public out is good critical notices, good word-of-mouth, and/or awards play. That's why they're best off keeping the release date, since any awards chance it has will evaporate in the spring, but might generate some legs (albeit short) in the pre-Oscar season. That's still an admitted longshot, but changing the date is going to cost more (with additional marketing) and will look like a calculated evasion.

comment #47

richard crawford says ...

so far mel is a terrible director. it this new movie is any good, i will see. He can be a terrific actor.

We are all bigots at sometime or other.

Mel, start acting again. Get sober. A lot of us will be happy. And why not become a Buddhist...LOL...! Then you won't have to worry about Jesus.

comment #48

T. H. Ung says ...

NYCBB, there is absolutely no way Mel wants to change. The best thing he can do is come clean and get honest with his public. Educate me Mel. Why don't you recoginize the Pope? Why is the testament anti-semetic? I'm the archetypical don't-lie-to-me woman or you'll be sorry, very sorry, don't ask don't tell men need not apply type of soccor mom if I had kids kind of gal. How do keep your 4 boys 3 girls and wife locked up, what kind of world do you live in, Mel? If you make a sci-fi fantasy adventure for my children (if I had them), I want to know you before I let them go see it. And this is called Hollywood blacklisting, hogwash.

comment #49

Josh says ...

Jeffrey. I gotta say I am amazed at some of the hate mongering masquerading as intellectual debate on all of these Mel Gibson talkbacks on the site.

No one here is saying blacklist Mel Gibson people.

It's an individual choice whether you want to see his films or not.

You know...a choice...like getting into a car when you're stinking drunk. A choice like calling a woman sugar tits. A choice like blaming a race of people for all the ills in this world.

Barbra Walters and Rob Schneider and whoever else has the balls to call this man a bigot are making CHOICES based on his actions. They're not telling you what to do. So go watch Apocalypto. Enjoy it to your hearts content. We don't give a shit.

Folks here (chief dumbass Nicol D takes the lead here) are having a lot of fun obscuring the issue of Mel being an anti-semite by equating Hollywood "forgiving" Roman Polanski, etc.

I didn't "forgive" Roman. I'm sure a lot of other people didn't either. So stop saying well if "they" or "we" did this then "we" or "they" should do that.

Deal with this person. Deal with Mel and what he said. And what he's said before about gays and Jews. And what his father has said before. This is not rocket science people. The man hates, Hey I liked his movies too. I still do. But he's a horrible human being.

I'm sure he was adorably fun to be around when he was sober on the set of Maverick, Jodie Foster. But there's another Mel. And he's a shitty guy with alot of fear and anger in his supposedly mananimous heart.

comment #50

nola says ...

Am I missing something? I don't get the hollywood uproar. As if none of these cats use sexist or racists slurs, while sober I might add. I have actually heard a few of them. I think we should be angry that he could have kill someone or himself driving under the influence. Oh wait a minute, if that had happened without the comments, he wouldn't be shunned. Remember the fox exec who killed his co-worker while driving drunk? He's still working in the biz, no problem.

Some of my jewish friends have said what if he said the N word. Okay but Melly mel did not use the K word am I right? I thought Paris was busted dropping the N bomb and she has a hit single and her show was just renewed. Whatever. The issue will come up whenever Disney releases the movie. It was going to be a tough sell anyway.

comment #51

Thung says ...

In case you don't believe me.

By James Hirsen

http://www.newsmax.com/hollywood2.shtml

4. Mel Gibson’s New Sci-Fi Fantasy Franchise

Hollywood filmmaker Mel Gibson and his movie company Icon Productions have a new acquisition times three.

In a move that many view as Gibson’s entrée as producer into “Narnia” territory, he and business partner Bruce Davey have secured the rights to author Libby Bray's fantasy book trilogy.

Bray’s first two books in the trilogy, “A Great and Terrible Beauty” and "Rebel Angels," were New York Times best sellers.

Director Charles Sturridge will direct and adapt the first installment, "A Great and Terrible Beauty."

The gothic tale centers on a young girl in Victorian England who uncovers a conspiracy surrounding her mom's death, which ultimately draws her into a world of magic and deception.

comment #52

christian licorice says ...

My cable was overrun with mel gibson movies this weekend (e.g. ransom & payback) and i tuned in to each for a few minutes to see what my reaction might be upon seeing mel and, yup, all i kept thinking was: what an asshole!

comment #53

Counselor says ...

Whoa nelly folks.....the anti-backlash backlash is thunderous, though I suspect Jew Boy is just trying to get a rise out us.

Regardless, two points.

First, I can only speak for myself, a big time drinking Jew (yeah, an oxymoron, but my mom converted, ok?) who has had many a drunken outburst, if I'm being truly deeply honest I believe in "In Vino Veritas". I may not want to admit it, and I may regret it profoundly, but there always seems to be some deep dark truths revealed in my drunken rants.

I forgive a drunken outburst, but not the hate disclosed during that rant.

Next, if Mel isn't anti-semetic -- why has he asked for help from the Jewish community to "help" him see the error of his ways?

I find it notable that it was a series of apologies. I know the drill, your spouse or someone with power of your gets upset. You don't know exactly why so you start apologizing....and keep doing so until you hit on what pissed them off in the first place. Not becuase you're excavating new lawyers of guilt.

Finally, as for "blacklisting" him, I'll make sure to bring it up at the next meeting of the secret cabal of Jewish media illuminati and otherwise nefarious evil doers. mmmmmmmmhhahahahahaha

comment #54

NYCBusybody says ...

"Next, if Mel isn't anti-semitic -- why has he asked for help from the Jewish community to "help" him see the error of his ways?"

This is my point. Taking into account Mel's past statements, ideas, and now this new scandal, I think it's pretty obvious that he's at least simple-mindedly anti-Semitic, or possibly even deeper.

However, if he admits this, or admits that he has prejudices against the Jewish people for whatever reasons (his particular brand of Catholocism, anti-Zionism, his father's influence, etc.), and asks to change, even if you DON'T believe it is genuine (which is a fair opinion), why fight against it? It's better than if he'd just kinda ignored the whole thing and hoped it'd blow over, which others might have done.

comment #55

Nicol D says ...

Josh

"Folks here (chief dumbass Nicol D takes the lead here) are having a lot of fun obscuring the issue of Mel being an anti-semite by equating Hollywood "forgiving" Roman Polanski, etc. "

If you must resort to childish insults, could you try to be a wee bit more creative?

Something in the vein of...'sugar tits' maybe.

"No one here is saying blacklist Mel Gibson people."

Uhhh, yes as a matter of fact they are. Avi Emmanuel, one of the most influencial agents in town called for a blacklist. Amy Pascal, head of Sony (and also a bigot in her own right) said she would never give Gibson work as long as she was with Sony. And she said that after The Passion.

Please, do not wade into the deep end of the pool with the adults expecting to be treated like one when when you do not have your facts straight.

Name-calling and childish insults makes you come as such...like a child.

The reason people do not like that some of us are bringing up Polanski, Simpson, Brando and hypocrites like Emmanuel and Pascal is that it undelines in big, black bold ink the lack of moral authority in Hollywood.

Holywood cannot 365 days a year excuse every behaviour in the book from chld rape to child pornography to links with the mob to selling violent fare to children and mocking every other demo in the book (blacks, Christians, Catholics,Asians, Hindus etc.) then claim the high road in the case of Gibson.

I'll repeat it again:

What Gibson said was wrong, ignorant and racist.

But who in Hollywood has the moral authority to condemn that and call for a blacklist?

Can I have some names?

comment #56

Thung says ...

Being an agent at ICM means Ari Emmanuel is ahead of the curve. Even in a yoga position on the beach pissing off his neighbors in Watch Hill Rhode Island, he knew he wasn't going out on too much of a limb saying shun Mel. In short order it'll be debated in People Mag, 60 Minutes and church newsletters in a town near year. IMHO.

comment #57

Anonymous says ...

I meant -- in a town near you. IMHO.

comment #58

Counselor says ...

I suppose admitting your a bigot is better than denying it, but any implication or suggestion that the mere act of admitting it and asking forgiveness is enough, kinda pissess me off.

It reminds me of the line, "just because you admit you're an asshole, doesn't make it ok".

Acknowledging the problem is but the very, very first step on a very long road....the length of which is directly proportionate to the degree and extent of the problem.

I don't know the man, and only have third party reports of his statments and behavior together with his on the record views on religion ,etc., but my opinion is that his degree of single-minded "I'm right, the rest of you are gonna burn in hell, including my wife" fanatisicsm is simply anathema to any real kind of sensitivity to the beliefs of others. Thus, the appeal for help from Jews just seems more like a craven PR move. I could be wrong and everyone else -- those who know more than I and even those who don't -- are entitled to believe what they want and I respect that.

I'll just download the torrent of Apocolypto if I feel the need to see it, lest I line his pockets with any of my shekels.

comment #59

Nicol D says ...

"I'm right, the rest of you are gonna burn in hell, including my wife" fanatisicsm...

Can you find me this quote?

I searched and couldn't.

Enlighten me.

comment #60

Counselor says ...

Nicol D wrote:

"I'll repeat it again:

What Gibson said was wrong, ignorant and racist.

But who in Hollywood has the moral authority to condemn that and call for a blacklist?

Can I have some names?"

I don't know about everyone, but I certainly believe Avi [sic] Emmanuel...whose actual name, Ari, a "deep end" resident like you ought know and not get wrong, was not suggesting that Mel's words were the problem, but the apparent hatred and racism and, let's not forget Nicole, misogyny that gave rise to the words.

In any event I will concede that Hollywood and its players may lack a certain moral authority to condemn others, but what about its own? Isn't that a little different? And how exactly are Ari Emmanual and Amy Pascal themselves hypocrital as you accuse?

In addition, I wasn't around back then but who was defending polanski in the weeks/months following the accusations/crimes that came to light?

Can I have some facts?

comment #61

Counselor says ...

Mel has said in interviews -- and I will find it if you insist -- that his wife who is Episcopal is going to hell.

comment #62

tj says ...

No one (as was stated earlier), is defending what Mel said. What Mel said is inexcusable (even Mel has said so).

I'll listen to the people who actually have known him personally over the years as opposed to people who have NEVER met Mel and feel they know "enough" about him to judge the man just from what we have read/seen in the media and one night of drunken rantings.

Hate is just too easy in this day and age...and the vicious circle continues...

comment #63

counselor says ...

Mel Gibson says his wife
could be going to hell
Plus: ‘Monster’ star opposes death penalty;
Studdard fans fuming at Rivers' diet tips

By Jeannette Walls with Ashley Pearson
MSNBC
Updated: 12:35 a.m. CT Feb 10, 2004
Mel Gibson has come under fire for being hard on Jews in his film “The Passion of the Christ” — but apparently, he feels that Protestants are also doomed to damnation. In fact, it looks like Gibson, a conservative Catholic, believes that his Episcopalian wife could be going to hell.

Gibson was interviewed by the Herald Sun in Australia, and the reporter asked the star if Protestants are denied eternal salvation. “There is no salvation for those outside the Church,” Gibson replied. “I believe it.”

He elaborated: “Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am. Honestly. She’s, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it’s just not fair if she doesn’t make it, she’s better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”

Satisfied Nicole?

And tj, don't know if your comment is directed my way, but if I were demanding that anyone agree with my opinion you'd have a point. As it is, my opinioin can only be based upon the informatin that I have.....I have to decide if I want to see his movies. I make that decision, in part, based on how I feel about the man. How I feel about the man is, in part, based on his behavior, statements and alleged/apparent beliefs.

What else would YOU suggest I base MY opiinon for MYSELF on?

comment #64

"FREEDOM!" says ...

Mel, no more apologies!
You've said it sincerely, so don't grovel. You don't need to say any more. This was a stupid act of boorish, drunken behaviour. And you've said "sorry". Twice. That's enough!!

Apparently it's "anti-semetic" to point out our media is largely run by Jews. Why? It obviously is.... That's why the coverage of the middle east is so pro-Israeli all the time. To even allude to the powerful "Israeli Lobby" that skews our foreign policy is also considered to be "anti-semetic". The slur is just a means for the political control of the rest of the population of America. Neo Conservatism was originally cooked up in Israel, by (Shock! Horror!) right wing Jews! (Surely not!!)

Look at that stupid, aging slut Madonna: Wow, she's so 'edgy'... she's intends to deeply offend Christians by being 'crucified' in Rome! Think she'll do a stage show where she skewers the Kabbala? Think she'll mock the Jews, or the Muslims in a show in Jerusalem? Of course not, she wouldn't have the guts...

Mel, take a big full page ad out in all the major newspapers and reprint that inspiring speech from BRAVEHEART!

It's time to take our country back before we get dragged into a new world war by these neo-con lunatics.

comment #65

Larry says ...

Counselor asks how is Ari Emanuel hypocritical? Well, just to give one example, he reps Michael Moore, who's said uglier things sober than Mel Gibson has said drunk.

comment #66

Chuck says ...

"....then the Academy loses face by not nominating it and awarding some safe PC film instead."

You mean like they do every single year?

comment #67

NYCBusybody says ...

Studdard fans fuming at Rivers' diet tips??!!

And we're talking about Mel Gibson?

comment #68

Counselor says ...

Sorry Larry, I don't see the hypocrisy there.

Is Michael Moore a racist, bigot, mysoginist or anti-semetic? I've only seen some of his movies (not a fan) but I didn't think so.

Is Moore an anti-establishment rabble rouser? Sure. A self-promoting publicity hound? Seems so. But a bigot? I hadn't noticed, but admit that I might have missed something.

comment #69

HR says ...

All you need to know about Mel Gibson are a handful of lines he spoke when he was sober:

"Atrocities happened. War is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions of people. Some of them were Jews in concentration camps. Many people lost their lives."

We hardly needed a drunken anti-semitic tirade to get the point.

comment #70

Nicol D says ...

Counselor,

Dude, cut out the attitude.

You chide me by saying Avi Emmanuel's name is really Ari (although I see everyone calling him Avi)then a few lines down you call him "Ari Emmanual ". Incorrect spelling on both names apparently by your standards.

"...let's not forget Nicole, misogyny that gave rise to the words."

You even spell my name wrong...sheesh!

As for Pascal, she produced the hateful The DaVinci Code and made sure to repond to Catholic concerns with it by not meeting Catholic leaders and promoting the movie as the 'truth'. She has no moral authority whatsoever.

As far as Polanski...how can you not know the story. Polanski was charged with the statuatory rape (drugging and sodomy) of a 13 year old girl.

He has never been ostracized by Hollywood, works with the top actors and won an Oscar in 2002.

Now I love Polanski's work and think he is talented...but any industry that will award a child rapist does not have the moral authority to condemn Gibson for his words.

I'm just sayin'...

"Mel has said in interviews -- and I will find it if you insist -- that his wife who is Episcopal is going to hell."

Yes, I would love to see this quote. I cannot find it although I see many people attribute it to him.

Incidentally, I have no problem with people claiming absolute authority of thier beliefs be it Catholic, Muslim, Orthodox Jewish etc.

I am not a relativist. Why would you believe in something if you did not believe it true? The whole New Age 'all that matters is what you believe' belief is rubbish.

comment #71

TC says ...

Fuck Mel Gibson and his pious ass to hell and fuck his crap movies.

comment #72

NYCBusybody says ...

"Imagine no religion...it's easy if you try..."

Oh wait, that guy was a multi-millionaire wife-beater and child-ignorer.

Moral authority is tougher to come by than I thought. Perhaps only Barney can save us now.

comment #73

Scott Mendelson says ...

"Atrocities happened. War is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions of people. Some of them were Jews in concentration camps. Many people lost their lives."

Actually, as a Jew, I support that statement as an example of level-headnedness. It was not just a Jewish holocaust. Of the 10 million who died in camps, 6 million were Jews. That means almost half were not Jews, but other 'undesirables' such as gays, handicapped, POWs, gypies, and other unwanted. It annoys me when we refuse to even discuss this idea that Jews don't have ownership over the Holocaust. It wasn't their tragedy alone and they don't have the right to claim it otherwise.

As for his alleged anti-semetism, we all say dumb things when we're drunk, and we've all used words and phrases that might be construed as racist or bigoted in a different context (ie - quoting Blazing Saddles or Pulp Fiction as a sign of racism?). I'm more concerned about the drunk driving than a human outburst. Besides, considering how pissed off I am at Israel right now (Hammas doesn't hide among civilians, they don't trust them, so the hundreds of Lebonese civilians who have been killed basically represent a terror campaign), I'd have heartily agreed with him if he had said that "Israel" was to blame for wars and what not. Yes, Israel is not all Jews, but people on both sides refuse to make that distinction.

Scott Mendelson

comment #74

Nicol D says ...

Councelor,

Thanks for the quote. Hardly as brutally phrased as 'my wife will burn in Hell'. Also, we all believe in absolutes.

Just as those who believe absolutely that Mel is insane and anti-semitic are also passing absolute judgement.

Again, this is not so facile as many want to make it.

comment #75

NYCBusybody says ...

Hezbollah hides among citizens.

comment #76

Josh says ...

Nicol--

Much as I'm afraid to dip my toe into the deep end of this little intellectual wading pool of yours...I'm gonna add one more posting before I let you have the last word (and then another and another and then another perhaps on Dave Poland's site and then make sure to save time to call in to whatever conservative talk radio host you prefer--Michael Medved perhaps?). I have some time on my hands but sadly not in the quantity you seem to.

You can continue to have this debate with yourself all you want but I don't see where you're going taking on that dastardly big H Hollywood--that horrible monolith of an entity that forgives and forgets these other sins you refer to. This big H sure sounds like a big meanie. Lucky for you HOLLYWOOD isn't around to debate you so you can just make up whatever sort of argument you want. Ya see Hollywood isn't a person. Just like Jews and Christians and Muslims aren't a single entity. You can't just decide you know what IT stands for and what IT'S calling for. A statement from Ari Emanuel apparently means Hollywood in it's entirety is calling for a blacklist? Good to know. Don't worry bud. Your guy Mel is gonna be just fine and be able to make whatever movie he wants.

As for name calling...how about we start with owning up to our full names? Mine is Josh Horowitz. What's yours? Funny how the most energetic of posters forget to sign their full names, isn't it?

Keep on fighting your good fight Nicol. I'm checking out. I fear if I read another of your posts my eyes won't be able to roll any further back into my head.

Best,
Josh

comment #77

NYCBusybody says ...

Mr. Jeffrey Wells,

Do another feature! This thread is getting overloaded! It's gotta be about to set an all-time HE post record!

Man, people like to talk about Mel and Jews!

comment #78

Counselor says ...

Dudette, cut out the holier than though supremecy.

Typos and spelling mistakes are not the same as mistaking one name, Avi, for another, Ari.

In any event, as that is the most minor of my points, let's move on.

I see, so assuming Divinci Code is "hateful", and not based on the bestselling novel of all time (other than the bible of course), she was obligated to meet with regligious leaders to make sure there were no hard feelings?

Where in the novel or movie did anyone say "Christians were responsblie for all the wars in the world". The movie questioned religious precepts, but didn't call those that believe in them evil, bad, or somehow morally questionable.

I know the story of Polanski. My question was what was whether anyone in Hollywood was defending him in the weeks and months following the incident, not whether he won an oscar 20 years later.

in 2026 if Mel directs a movie worth of oscar consdieration, but doesn't get nominated because of things he said or believed 20 years earlier let me know and we can debate it then.

So you deny that his sect of Catholicism believes that all others are going to hell?

Do you deny the holocaust too Nicol ? I'm only 90% joking here...

Obviously you have no problem with others claiming absolute authority.....only those forming their own opinions about others based on what they say and do and quite possibly believe.

I'm not a relativist either. Just not a facist.

comment #79

NYCBusybody says ...

There's gotta be a ribaldly politically incorrect joke to be made about Gibson and Polanski co-directing a film. Just gotta be.

comment #80

Henry N. says ...

Try "Repulsion."

comment #81

NYCBusybody says ...

I thought "K**kes and Tykes"

comment #82

counselor says ...

alternates to "My wife will burn in hell"

1. My wife will vacation in Hell and use SPF 1 to the 1,000,000th power to avoid any unsightly and uncomfortable burn
2. My wife will visit hell, decide its not to her liking, complain to management for an upgrade and be stuck on hold for eternity
3. My wife will try to avoid hell but decide its better than an eternity with an anti-semite

I dunno, I'm sure the are other funnier, let alone less "brutal" ways to say it Nicol.....

I think he actually said, "My wife will burn like the godless whore she is in Hell for enternity with the rest of those Christ killing blood sucking jews"

Oh and lest anyone accuse me of shileding myself with anonymity my name is Gary Kline

comment #83

sutter kane says ...

I don't think Mel's rants are going to help BO or increase interest. Rather, this is going to backfire on him the way the whole looney-Tom Cruise thing did on MI:3.

I agree, though, that it sounds like an interesting film and I'm anxious to see it. But Mel needs to disappear for a while, a long while, and let all this blow over.

comment #84

L.B. says ...

Nicol-

Here's the exact quote from the September 15, 2003 New Yorker profile titled "The Jesus War":

"'There is no salvation outside the Church,' he said. 'I believe it.' He explained, 'Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She's a much better person than I am. Honestly. She's, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it's just not fair if she doesn't make it, she's better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.'"

comment #85

NYCBusybody says ...

I don't quite understand what the big problem with that is. He believes that. You don't. Big deal.

There's a big difference between what he said in that quote and "my wife's going to hell". He even said "it's not fair". That's questioning God, which seems to me to be a pretty admirable thing for any religious person to do.

comment #86

L.B. says ...

Wasn't judging, NYCB. Just providing the quote because it was requested. Did a little research. Didn't just mouth off at someone so I could feel superior.

Didn't you say you would stop posting?

comment #87

NYCBusybody says ...

Was really referring to Counselor, actually, L.B. I hadn't even looked at your name, sorry.

Would you really characterize what I said as "mouthing off?" I may be a lot of things, but arrogant is certainly not one of them. I often learn quite a bit from postings on these boards, that's why I'm still here. I don't have a superiority bone in my body.

comment #88

Counselor says ...

In fairnes NYCB, you're probably right, and my reference to that part of his belief system as support for my view that Mel's beliefs amount to "single minded...fanatacism" is probably misplaced...or not. Many things the catholic church believed in the first part of this century (and which Mel's church still advocates) could be viewed as "single minded" and "fanatic", in much the same way that the beliefs of ultra-orthodox and/or hassidic jews can be viewed that way.

In any event, I don't have a problem with his religious beliefs. I have a problem with his apparent problem with mine.

comment #89

Doug says ...

Should we really be so concerned about what an actor/director says to police when he's being arrested? He didn't break any laws by making anti-semetic or sexist remarks. He broke the law by threatening his own safety and the safety of others by driving drunk.
I hope he is able to conquer his alcoholism.

comment #90

B says ...

I say release it early :)

comment #91

NYCBusybody says ...

Doubt anyone's still reading this one, but Counselor, I agree. That was really the point of what I was saying. It's not anyone's religious beliefs that may offend me so much as their imposition, especially through political means, on my life.

comment #92

kimi98 says ...

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