comment #1

NYCBusybody says ...

The Weinsteins also just bought the rights to a conservative group's anti-illegal immigration documentary. Interesting lineup they're developing here.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16618

comment #2

tholl-yung says ...

What's the slant here? "Translation: why would these two women want to get in bed with Harvey Scissorhands when they could cut a deal with Bob Berney or James Schamus?" Personally, I'd like a roll with Schamus.

NYCBB, thanks for the point, conservative docs are gonna be the new in thing.

comment #3

mitch says ...

I agree. Conservative viewpoints are far too often not represented within the documentary space.

I'd love to see a doc about the college republicans who offered food (bake sale) based on affirmative action quotas. They were lambasted almost into oblivion.

Yet, does anyone remember any protest against the feminist's "pay equity" bake sale?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

comment #4

NYCBusybody says ...

I just don't understand how, as Barbara Kopple says, the whole Dixie Chicks she-bang was a "Free Speech" issue.

Did anyone suggest that Natalie Maines shouldn't have been allowed to say what she said? If death threats were made, sure, that's despicable, and should be pursued by law enforcement.

But is Kopple going to make a documentary supporting the "free speech" rights of the people who protested what she said, boycotted radio stations who played her music, etc? Isn't this a common political strategy of the left? How is boycotting a radio station impinging on the Dixie Chicks' freedom of speech?

I'd fully understand if Kopple made a movie excoriating and demonizing Bush, and supporting the Dixie Chicks for hating him. But how is this an issue of free speech?

comment #5

FilmTurtle says ...

I think what Kopple means is the firestorm that swept up following Maines' comments was so wildly vitriolic, to the point of absurdity, that it had to be intended to intimidate anyone who would dare to speak out against Bush. Meaning, if you criticize the White House, this is gonna happen to you, too...

comment #6

NYCBusybody says ...

These are vitriolic times. Is Barbara Kopple really surprised that people react "vitriolically" in defense of a President that is so vitriolically attacked by the other side?

This is what happens in a polarized society. Hardly a surprise, and hardly a free speech issue. Many, many conservatives feel intimidated to speak their minds on issues like affirmative action or immigration for fear of being branded "racist" by loud, vitriolic left-wing groups.

Where's Kopple's documentary on that?

comment #7

le corbeau says ...

"the firestorm that swept up following Maines' comments was so wildly vitriolic, to the point of absurdity, that it had to be intended to intimidate anyone who would dare to speak out against Bush."

Yeah, I'll never forget when the thugs set Natalie Maines on fire and the police just looked on, ordered not to interfere.

Just what we need, a documentary lauding celebrities too dumb to realize their fashionably empty-headed opinions might alienate the country music audience. Next can we have one about Tom Cruise's brave fight against the psychiatry mafia, and one about Mel Gibson's silencing by the Jews?

comment #8

Pelham123 says ...

The obvious difference is the so-called vitrolic left wing groups are not in charge of all three branches of government with their own propaganda "news" network. So, please stop with this poor, poor pitiful me nonsense about conservatives afraid to voice their opinions. Maybe in 1992 it would have been valid, but by no means is it valid or close to relevant today.

comment #9

Dixon Steele says ...

NYC BB,

Many conservatives are afraid to speak out? Are you on crack?

Ever hear of Fox News or Talk Radio. That's ALL they do.

comment #10

mitch says ...

Pelham123,

um...

The Judicial Branch (The Supreme Court), 9th Circuit, NPR, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, NYTimes, Time, Newsweek, Hollywood, PEOPLE MAGAZINE!...these are right wing advocates?

Damn. And to think I was just starting to understand politics.

comment #11

mitch says ...

Dixon Steele,

Yes, conservatives of all types are constantly afraid to speak out where free speech should always matter most: educational campuses.

Go ahead, go undercover and be a conservative (atheist no less) on a college campus. Please report back to us your findings.

That is, if you even make it back.

"Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies, Farewell and adieu to you, ladies of Spain"

CHOMP!

comment #12

D.Z. says ...

NYC: "The Weinsteins also just bought the rights to a conservative group's anti-illegal immigration documentary."

Sounds sort of like an illegal immigration variation of Traffic to me...

"I just don't understand how, as Barbara Kopple says, the whole Dixie Chicks she-bang was a "Free Speech" issue."

Why can Ted Nugent get airtime for being anti-illegal immigration, but the Dixie Chicks can't get airtime for being anti-Bush?

"But is Kopple going to make a documentary supporting the "free speech" rights of the people who protested what she said, boycotted radio stations who played her music, etc?"

People who boycott unpopular opinions usually aren't for free speech, even if they hide behind it.

"Isn't this a common political strategy of the left?"

No, the left just doesn't like hate speech, like the kind from Dr. Laura or Jerry Falwell. You have a right to talk about it, but you shouldn't be sponsored for it.

"Is Barbara Kopple really surprised that people react "vitriolically" in defense of a President that is so vitriolically attacked by the other side?"

I'd be, since I thought Bush was fighting-well killing other soldiers in his place, anyway-for their freedom to speak.

mitch: "I'd love to see a doc about the college republicans who offered food (bake sale) based on affirmative action quotas."

It'd probably be about price-gouging so only rich white people can afford it, like we're seeing at the pumps.

"Yet, does anyone remember any protest against the feminist's "pay equity" bake sale?"

So women shouldn't make as much as men for the same work?

"Go ahead, go undercover and be a conservative (atheist no less) on a college campus."

I had plenty of people who spoke consersative views on my campus, and probably a minority who were liberal.

Mgmax: "Just what we need, a documentary lauding celebrities too dumb to realize their fashionably empty-headed opinions might alienate the country music audience."

I thought it's the audience which is usually empty-headed.

comment #13

le corbeau says ...

D.Z. translated:

Damn you, unless you agree with the Dixie Chicks and the thesis of this documentary or at least keep your disagreement to yourself, you're censoring them!

comment #14

Nicol D says ...

I agree with the above poster who said conservatives are under represented in the documentary movement.

I also think more and more conservatives need to embrace the arts, get up off their asses and make documentaries and films.

Bitching about left-wing crap like this (yes, we all know most left-wing docs are crap) won't help.

Sooner or later you have to pick up a camera, pick up a pen and embrace the medium.

George Clooney sure as hell ain't gonna do it for ya'.

comment #15

L.B. says ...

Or, better yet, just make a documentary. I like docs that find a subject, present a subject, and shed new light on a subject. Saying you're setting out to make a "right-wing doc" pretty much says that you're going to make sure you skew the facts to fit your viewpoint regardless of what you may learn during the documentary process. How exactly is that behavior any different from the people you assail every waking moment, Nicol?

Oh, never mind. I forget who I'm talking to sometimes.

comment #16

SpinDozer says ...

"The Judicial Branch (The Supreme Court), 9th Circuit, NPR, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, NYTimes, Time, Newsweek, Hollywood, PEOPLE MAGAZINE!...these are right wing advocates?

Damn. And to think I was just starting to understand politics."

If you think the Supreme Court & main stream media are left wing brother, you don't have a clue.

comment #17

NYCBusybody says ...

The mainstream media is a bit moderately left-wing. The fact that the left decries that it's not "left" is proof of how far to the left many of them have gone.

Talk radio exploded in the 90's PRECISELY BECAUSE they weren't getting their voices heard in the regular media.

And anyone who thinks conservative viewpoints and voices aren't largely squashed in many, many institutions of higher learning in this country should just do an experiment. Try it out. Try and publish a conservative paper, see what happens. Or better yet, read the Phi Beta Con column at National Review Online.

Just because the left-wing propaganda media doesn't report these things doesn't mean they don't exist.

comment #18

mitch says ...

I kinda like DZ's responses:

""mitch: "I'd love to see a doc about the college republicans who offered food (bake sale) based on affirmative action quotas.""

"It'd probably be about price-gouging so only rich white people can afford it, like we're seeing at the pumps."

Ah, so only white people are rich. Nice little racist comment. Got it.

""Yet, does anyone remember any protest against the feminist's "pay equity" bake sale?""

"So women shouldn't make as much as men for the same work?"

So a racist comment and a spin moment. Sweet.

""Go ahead, go undercover and be a conservative (atheist no less) on a college campus.""

"I had plenty of people who spoke consersative views on my campus, and probably a minority who were liberal."

Now, this is possible. Which college did you attend? Me thinks me smells a bit of a fib.

Still, being a racist spin artist in one post, just on my comments alone, is a pretty good start, DZ. What next?

Oh, I forgot. Only white people are bad, so it's ok to speak unkindly of them.

Dang. Still, the spin was good.

comment #19

D.Z. says ...

NYC: "Talk radio exploded in the 90's PRECISELY BECAUSE they weren't getting their voices heard in the regular media."

To be fair to the media, it's kind of tough for people to hear what you're saying when you're speaking through a white hood.

"And anyone who thinks conservative viewpoints and voices aren't largely squashed in many, many institutions of higher learning in this country should just do an experiment. Try it out."

I've encountered people in my classes who trashed war protestors, people who don't like black churches being burned as "paranoud", and who defended sweatshops with no one forcing them to back down from their statements.

"Try and publish a conservative paper, see what happens."

My campus had a Christian club and conservative op-ed pieces in its paper.

mitch: "Ah, so only white people are rich."

No, but they happen to be the ones who have kept other people poor and oppressed since the Crusades.

"Nice little racist comment."

No, just a fact. Blacks and Latinos are statistically less likely to have equity and savings on par with whites.

"So a racist comment and a spin moment."

You never did answer my question. You're the one who's spinning it.

"Now, this is possible. Which college did you attend? Me thinks me smells a bit of a fib."

Cal State Northridge.

"Oh, I forgot. Only white people are bad, so it's ok to speak unkindly of them."

It's ok to speak unkindly of them because they like to blame minorities for being poor and uneducated.

comment #20

SpinDozer says ...

"The mainstream media is a bit moderately left-wing. The fact that the left decries that it's not "left" is proof of how far to the left many of them have gone."

This observation is similar in value to most the ones you provide the blog...

"Talk radio exploded in the 90's PRECISELY BECAUSE they weren't getting their voices heard in the regular media."

Talk radio exploded in the 90's PRECISELY BECAUSE there was and is a sizeable minority of people who want their factually challenged opinions to be affirmed as correct by those with the skill & desire to use the ignorant as their base.

"And anyone who thinks conservative viewpoints and voices aren't largely squashed in many, many institutions of higher learning in this country should just do an experiment. Try it out. Try and publish a conservative paper, see what happens. Or better yet, read the Phi Beta Con column at National Review Online."

You know what happens when people go to institutions of higher learning? What Nixon & other crybaby wing-nuts have found out is higher education tends to make them conservative.

"Just because the left-wing propaganda media doesn't report these things doesn't mean they don't exist."

More to the point, just because a troll posts them to a blog doesn't mean they do exist.

comment #21

mitch says ...

Gosh, DZ...

you really ARE racist. Wow, baiting DOES work.

Thanks.

And no spinning required on my part, as asking if anyone protested a feminist "equity sale" does in now way support a counter claim of of me implying(paraphrase) "women shouldn't be paid the same as men." I just asked if anyone knows of a protest against one of those sales.

SPIN!

Your top, DZ. Or is it really 'dizzy?'

comment #22

Nate West says ...

The Dixie Chicks were taken off the air largely by Clear Channel, the radio syndicate whose owners are big-time Republican contributors. It was a top-down decision, as befits the authoritarian corporate worldview in which most conservatives invest their faith.

If conservative corporations control the avenues of expression and are quite willing to knock off popular artists for political reasons, surely there must be a little free speech angle in there somewhere? Don't you think?

comment #23

MAGGA says ...

After reading all these posts I thought the Dixie Chicks must have said something extremely provocative, but "we´re ashamed the president is from Texas"? If that causes death threats, bicotts etc, I wonder what happens when they have stronger opinions. And I do not think there will be many big investments in right-wing movies (unless one considers films about christianity right wing) because a large amount of a films grosses comes from outside the US, and I can not think of a single country where the public supports the current American administration or its main policies, even if some of these countries´ leaders do. Also, I may be a foreigner and as such might misread some tendencies in the media, but I have a feeling that when people say that the news is slanted towards the left, that the same approaches would have been seen as the center or even slightly to the right in the nineties. But I may be wrong

comment #24

Rich S. says ...

People, people. You will soon learn that arguing with D.Z. is an exercise in futility. Make any statement that can be construed as conservative, and he'll come up with a quick retort that is neither particularly relevant to your argument or consistent with any of his prior positions. Have you ever seen the Argument Clinic on Monty Python? Same thing.

To me, this whole Dixie Chicks thing has always been a public relations gambit that backfired. They tried to seem "edgy" by taking a halfhearted stand against the administration and then realized that the audience they were reaching out to doesn't like their music. They got on a lot of magazine covers and sold a lot of albums, but in the long term it's not helping them on the road. I'm sure we'll see them pop up on the Lilith tour eventually, but by then they'll have to ditch the fiddles.

Their biggest sin, in my opinion, was and is cowardice. Instead of standing outside the gates of the Crawford ranch and making their position crystal clear, Maines (I'm not sure the other two have ever made any public statements) made some ambiguous crack about not liking the president to a group of already-converted British college kids. Everything they've done since (the EW cover, Not Ready to Make Nice) has been carefully-crafted P.R. spin. Not exactly Martin Sheen getting arrested for marching with migrant workers, is it?

comment #25

NYCBusybody says ...

Rich S., yes, your point about D.Z. is correct. Mitch, don't even read D.Z's posts (just scroll through them).

comment #26

NYCBusybody says ...

"The Dixie Chicks were taken off the air largely by Clear Channel, the radio syndicate whose owners are big-time Republican contributors."

This is typical shallow thinking, not really seeing the underlying social forces that were at work.

Clear Channel is a corporation. They are in it for money. Whatever sells, they'd play. If no one had protested the Dixie Chicks, if massive protests hadn't been organized and called in, if there had been no "firestorm", they would have continued playing them just fine.

People were offended, and spoke out, and demanded that their local stations no longer play the chicks. The fact that many of these happened to be Clear Channel would, yes, make it easy for someone with a surface-view of this issue to think it's the work of an autocratic, top-down, fascistic Americorporate entity.

If this were really the case, and it had nothing to do with the public outcry in conservative regions, how do you explain the fact that the Chicks had to cancel 7 shows in the Midwest and South?

comment #27

mizerock says ...

Wow, reading this message board, it becomes quite clear that these times are indeed ripe for a few conservative-minded docs!

I was brought up ("brain-washed") not to hate other people just because they are different than I am - I was told this was being a good Christian. Sure, some people follow this thinking too literally, and they wind up taking some pretty strange or even hypocritical positions. But I still cringe when I read about the latest Rich White Man's rage issue - doesn't it always boil down to "I hate you because you're different", and "I have all the power, and I'm going to use it to screw you over & not feel remotely guilty about it"?

comment #28

NYCBusybody says ...

"was brought up ("brain-washed") not to hate other people just because they are different than I am "

You've obviously been brain-washed to believe that people with conservative beliefs automatically "hate other people just because they are different".

comment #29

D.Z. says ...

Rich: "They tried to seem "edgy" by taking a halfhearted stand against the administration and then realized that the audience they were reaching out to doesn't like their music. They got on a lot of magazine covers and sold a lot of albums, but in the long term it's not helping them on the road."

Yeah well, maybe one of them should marry a cousin or someone who's 14 so they'd fit in like Jerry Lee and Elvis...

"Their biggest sin, in my opinion, was and is cowardice. Instead of standing outside the gates of the Crawford ranch and making their position crystal clear,"

I dunno. Cindy Sheehan's made her position clear at Crawford for a year, and Repugs claim she's hiding behind her son.

NYC: "Clear Channel is a corporation. They are in it for money. Whatever sells, they'd play."

But if they're getting subsidies and payola, why do they have to be obligated to play what "sells"?

"If no one had protested the Dixie Chicks, if massive protests hadn't been organized and called in, if there had been no "firestorm", they would have continued playing them just fine."

People were protesting Clear Channel's anti-Kerry Swift Boat ads, and they didn't take those down as soon as they did the Dixie Chicks' music...

"If this were really the case, and it had nothing to do with the public outcry in conservative regions, how do you explain the fact that the Chicks had to cancel 7 shows in the Midwest and South?"

The concert owners were probably worried about riots and other forms of violence against the singers.

"You've obviously been brain-washed to believe that people with conservative beliefs automatically "hate other people just because they are different"."

Well we certainly showed tolerance to the dead Iraqis and Lebanese we just bombed over the last 3 years, now didn't we?

comment #30

NYCBusybody says ...

Oh DZ, you adorable little scalliwag!

comment #31

sardine says ...

JEFFY-POO, you got some right wingers who won't shut up.

comment #32

MAGGA says ...

"But if they're getting subsidies and payola, why do they have to be obligated to play what "sells"?"

Well our state-sponsored TV channel in Norway, which is financed by a tax on all TV sets and has no commercials, airs a lot of popular shows outside of its quality agenda because it needs viewers to justify its existence. If Clear channel or whatever its called had fewer listeners it might lose a lot of the financial support from the groups that give them. Of course if these groups have an agenda, they might also pull their support if they dissagree with the content.

"The concert owners were probably worried about riots and other forms of violence against the singers."

Or the group had trouble selling tickets due to radio stations not promoting them or playing their records.