comment #1

Joel says ...

Cohen's a genius. I can't wait for the Borat movie. As for Ferrell's movie...well, not all that excited.

comment #2

Nag says ...

So Sascha Baron Cohen will be to "Talladega Nights" what Steve Carrell was to "Anchorman"?

I can see that.

comment #3

BL says ...

This movie is by the "Anchorman" crew?

Man, now I know I'm NOT going - that movie was awful.

Then again, I was one of those stick in the mud type little kids who always thought burping or farting on cue was lame-ass humor.

comment #4

Beatrice dil Dante says ...

Saw Borat in Cannes and still laughing kaputt. Not to mention the appearance of Baron-Cohen in the beach with the mini mini vitriolic green bathsuit. A true reckless comedian.

comment #5

lesterg says ...

Sounds that way, Nag.

Cohen's hooking up with The Frat Pack is definately paying off. With Talladega, Borat and Oceans 13 hitting before the end of the year - his US fame could finally rival his position in the UK.

comment #6

kadoogan says ...

Saw this at a test screening last April. Despite Baron-Cohen being largely MIA during the second half of the movie, his absence is made up for by an awesome turn by Gary Cole who dominates every single scene that he is in. Still, if you didn't like ANCHORMAN I'd stay away from this.

P.S. Think we'll ever see a Bruno movie? That would rule.

comment #7

MAGGA says ...

People who have seen it (AICN people mostly) seem to be assuming that the current version of Borat will be censored somewhat. Any reason to fear this?

comment #8

NYCBusybody says ...

I think Sacha Baron Cohen as Borat can be very, very funny.

I think Sacha Baron Cohen as Ali G is the worst humorous character ever invented.

So I don't know what to think about this guy.

comment #9

NYCBusybody says ...

Either way you cut it, he's nowhere near as funny as Coogan, Gervais, or even Ferrell.

comment #10

jesse says ...

BL, I just rewatched Anchorman and there are very few (if any) burping or farting gags in it (they're not my style either). One about an erection, and one about a bad smell (but it's the supposedly vile '70s style cologne "Sex Panther," not a bodily function)... but nothing incredibly scatological. Comedy can be broad without being childish or gross.

comment #11

Mark says ...

For real, anyone who didn't like Anchorman should not even bother to enter this thread. It's by far the best "frat pack" comedy. (Old School and Wedding Crashers just lose it at the end.)

comment #12

Chris No says ...

Cohen is fearless.
As an improviser, he makes any SNL'er look like an amateur.
He reminds me of Peter Sellers, and if any comedian has a chance to excel as a Serious Actor, it is Cohen, who writes better dialogue on the fly than 99% of the screenwriters who tussle with their Powebooks all day long at Starbucks.
Maybe Ali G, as an example of a certain type of social persona, is a little dated, but Cohen's commitment to the moment, his absolute refusal to break character, no matter what happens, is very rare, and something that someone like Ferrell should emulate.
I find most American comedic actors, especially those who serve their apprenticeship on SNL, have a hard time not commenting on their character and reminding the audience that they're really not anything like the doofus they're portraying.
Ferrell is as guilty as anyone of this.
His characters are so over the top, so broad, so clownish, all of the humanity is drained out of them.
Which may be the point.
I'm sure that some would argue that humanity is a highly overrated trait, and while that may be true the father along the evolution escalator we move, it still seems to me that the more you try to make a character seem like an actual person and not a cartoon the more complex and layered that character is, and the more their is to discover about that character, which would lead to repeated viewings, making that character more and more familiar.
Next time Ferrell decides to make a movie, maybe he should play second fiddle to Cohen and use it an opportunity to learn something.
It may be the case that Ferrell's offscreen persona is completely different from the characters he plays.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Maybe one day he will be able to play a part that is more like who he thinks he is.
But my point is that I don't think Cohen has a personality unless he is playing a character, which is what makes him more interesting to watch.
Cohen seems to absorb people.
Ferrell seems to want to mimic them, highlight the traits that are the most absurd.
Ferrell always wants you to know that even though he's pretending to be someone named Ron Burgundy or Ricky Bobby, he's still Will Ferrell.
Cohen has no interest in you knowing who Cohen is.
We need more of that.

comment #13

NYCBusybody says ...

I tend to agree, Chris, that American humor/comedy/comedians is generally a bit too broad, jokey, and even sophomoric at times.

But to use Ali G as an example of the contrary is preposterous. He was a broad caricature to the point of ridiculousness, so broad as to nearly be offensive, really, to African-Americans, whose culture he's broadly (and stupidly) imitating.

comment #14

Chris No says ...

I have no interest in reductive politics.
I'm solely talking about a very singular attribute that Cohen brings to his craft.
I don't live in England, I'm not from there, so I have no idea what Ali G signifies inside of that social context.
You should try not to speak for an entire group of people.
It's a bad rhetorical technique.
I am interested in THE ACTING.
Don't be a troll.
Or be a troll.
But when someone is trying to say something maybe what you should try and learn to do is not be so quick to be antagonistic.
Unless you want people to be antagonistic back to you.
If that's the case then you should consider yourself a success.
Now you can continue in your belief that everyone is stupid and mean except for you.
It must be difficult to be so smart.
Your response: No, it's actually very easy.
Oh you're a quick one.
You got me there.
I am running away from my computer with my tail between my legs.
I'm telling myself to never get into it with NYCBusybody ever again.

comment #15

Mike Schaefer says ...

"to use Ali G as an example of the contrary is preposterous. He was a broad caricature to the point of ridiculousness, so broad as to nearly be offensive, really, to African-Americans, whose culture he's broadly (and stupidly) imitating"

I agree with your previous comment that the Ali G character is unfunny -- it has put me off him for the longest time and only recent comments on this site have made me consider reconsidering him. But he's not satirizing African-American culture; he's making fun of clueless white guys who try to be hip-hop (and only secondarily spoofing hip-hop itself).

comment #16

NYCBusybody says ...

Mike, I understand your point about satirizing white guys, but I do think it has to be taken into account that Cohen is British, and not American. I think one has to be careful when broadly characterizing a group of people that isn't even from your own culture or country. So I find it unfunny.

Isn't that a good, fair, liberal idea?

And Chris, just because I have strong opinions and voice them strongly doesn't mean I think I'm smarter than anyone else here, or even, indeed, smart at all.

I just get really bored at work.

comment #17

NYCBusybody says ...

But, on second thought, that's a good point. Maybe you're right about that, spoofing white people pretending to be black.

I can take that onboard my ship.

comment #18

Baxter says ...

For what it's worth, NYCBusyBody, I think you're smarter than Chris No, I just hope that by saying that I don't inspire another endless, barely sensical rant.

comment #19

NYCBusybody says ...

I must protest "endless". I think I keep my nonsensical rants quite succinct.

comment #20

NYCBusybody says ...

And for what it's worth, I think Chris No seems quite inventively intelligent.

comment #21

Will Leitch says ...

For the record, Grierson is an excellent critic. I'm very pleased to see you quoting him here, Mr. Wells.

comment #22

NYCBusybody says ...

Will Leitch is an infamous Grierson suck-up.

I have no idea what that means, I just thought it sounded funny.

comment #23

Anonymous says ...

The only thing holding Cohen up from stardom is that he's too darn tall.

Where are they going to find a 6 foot 2 woman to play off of Cohen?

He's an absolute riot. That's for sure. But his height will not allow him to be a leading man.

comment #24

Baxter says ...

NYCBusybody,

I was referring to Chris No, not yourself, in the endless rant department, I'm generally a fan of your input, sorry for the confusion.

Baxter

comment #25

Rag on Everyone who's made it says ...

Man, there are a lot of arrogant bitter pricks on this board.

Me included of course.

comment #26

King Julian says ...

I like to move it move it

comment #27

BL says ...

"Comedy can be broad without being childish or gross." - jesse

Yeah, but "Anchorman" was both so I don't get your point.

I was not saying it had burp/fart humor per se, but that it is a grownup version of that kind of humor. My friend and I both hated it - while they sat there scowling through the whole thing, I was trying to socio-analyze those in the audience laughing - mostly guys, with their compliant girlfriend obviously laughing along in order to please them).

I think these kind of films are more of some kind of 'tribal indicators' than comedies. They invite their targeted audience to identiry themselves as part of a certain 'tribe' who 'get' certain kinds of humor that is unseen by 'outsiders'. That is to say - the humor is intentionally not really funny as a way for people who choose to laugh at it to see themselves as part of that 'group'.

Oh well, at least *I* know what I mean - sort of.

comment #28

gh says ...

Nag,

That should read

"So Sascha Baron Cohen will be to "Talladega Nights" what Paul Rudd was to "Anchorman"?

comment #29

Abe Goldfarb says ...

Erm, hate to bring this up, but the phenomenon Ali G is spoofing is a specifically British one, and the culture he's imitating is categorically neither African nor American. He's speaking in "rude boy" patois, which originates from Jamaica and has made its way into British street culture. The fact is that white British boys speaking patois in England is a neat correlary to the adoption of hip hop culture by white American kids. So the satire is pretty far-reaching, in my humble opinion. In any case, this conversation has been going on for a while now in British popular culture and Cohen's performance as Ali G brilliantly crystallises all the most hilariously repugnant aspects of clueless white wannabes.

In any case, I think Chris No is right on the money with the Peter Sellers comparison. Sometimes I do have to wonder what's behind those eyes.

comment #30

NYCBusybody says ...

The people laughing were too busy enjoying their lives and their "compliant" girlfriends to sit in a theater, scowl, and socio-analyze you back.

comment #31

NYCBusybody says ...

He may speak in a patois informed by Jamaican dialect, but he wears basketball jerseys. NBA, American basketball jerseys. This culture was created in American. Hip-hop, the schtick he's doing, is African-American.

comment #32

Abe Goldfarb says ...

Yes, NYCBusybody, he wears bling and NBA jerseys, but the all of his slang, including the rapping and occasional singing he does, are of the Jamaican dance-hall variety rather than classic hip-hop.

comment #33

Abe Goldfarb says ...

Yes, NYCBusybody, he wears bling and NBA jerseys, but all of his slang, including the rapping and occasional singing he does, are of the Jamaican dance-hall variety rather than classic hip-hop. The social phenomenon he's satirizing is specifically British.

comment #34

NYCBusybody says ...

No....it's specifically American AND British. If Jamaicans and British developed their own offshoots of American hip-hop music, fine, but it still all stems from hip-hop culture, which is originally African-American.

And is a reason that it never played big over here. A lot of black hip-hop stars talk like that, and there have already been countless imitations of it by white boys, comedians even. It was old-hat here, but apparantly new in England.

comment #35

jesse says ...

BL, I do know what you mean about the "tribal" thing, at least theoretically... but not about the movie being "intentionally not funny," and certainly not in practice simply because I know that Anchorman (and Ferrell in general, his more personally-directed material in particular) makes me laugh, a lot. It's basically an extension of the best Ferrell stuff from SNL -- silly, slightly surreal, often with an odd love of bizarre language. I'm not sure exactly why I find it funny, but it hits me just right, and I admire the techniques Ferrell and company take from improv (especially compared to the really indulgent improv stuff in the Austin Powers movies that is sometimes funny but tends to just go on and on). I also appreciate Ferrell and McKay's willingness to let everyone be funny, compared to (say) a Jim Carrey vehicle where inevitably the only "funny" thing onscreen will be Carrey.

I would be curious about what kind of comedies you like. Not that Anchorman is the be-all, end-all, but in terms of pure comedies (that is to say, not comedy-dramas or indie half-comedies -- many of which I love, but aren't really traditional comedies *or* dramas), what do you like? I put Anchorman up there with Wet Hot American Summer and Kids in the Hall: Brain Candy as the funniest broad comedies of the past ten years or so.

comment #36

Abe Goldfarb says ...

Er...Cohen had been doing the character since 1998, on a very popular British show. So no, not even really very new there. Dancehall is an offshoot of reggae with a bit of hip hop thrown in. And as you couldn't spot that Cohen was spoofing not black culture but its white imitators, I would not hesitate to suggest that you're not entirely qualified to dissect his humor or the social context it fits in. No offense.

comment #37

NYCBusybody says ...

I don't know, I think this from the Wikipedia entry on Ali G sums it up best:

"Ali G can also be seen as a commentary on the adoption of American black street culture by both non-Americans and non-blacks. Because Baron Cohen is a middle-class, Cambridge University-educated Jewish actor portraying a suburban, presumably middle-class Briton of undetermined extraction who is, in turn, styling himself on American street life, the show maintains a certain Victor/Victoria quality"

Yes, he may be spoofing British white youth who appropriate British/Jamaican culture, but that British/Jamaican black culture is primarily based on African-American hip-hop culture. Ali G is not wearing bling, jerseys, and proclaiming to be from the hood because of Jamaican ghetto culture.

comment #38

mariana says ...

For NYCBusybody black American culture is a sacred cow that most not be mocked despite its immensely mockable aspects. As far as I'm concerned, no cows.

comment #39

Anonymous says ...

NYCBusyBody...really get a fuckin life. The fact that Cohen is jewish and appropriating British/Jamaican culture, and that it pisses you off is funny as shit.

comment #40

Duck of Death says ...

NYCBB...your getting your info and opinions from wikipedia? Ok, now I see your problem.

comment #41

nemo says ...

NYCBusybody: Even your Wikipedia quotation makes it clear that the Ali G character is NOT satirizing black culture, whether African-American or British-Jamaican, but is instead satirizing white wannabes who adopt superficial aspects of black culture.

You're right that "he's broadly (and stupidly) imitating" black culture. But the joke is not about black culture. It's about white wannabes who broadly and stupidly imitate black culture. How on earth is that offensive to black culture?

You're a smart guy, but you're slipping a gear here, just like you do when you go off on one of your patented rant about anti-Semitic "far-lefties".

Even so, not everybody is going find Cohen's Ali G act funny, even if they get that he's ridiculing white wannabes.