comment #1

Rob G says ...

It would be interesting to see Mann going back to basics -- so to speak. I loved MV, but $150 million, or whatever, is NOT on the screen. Regardless, I'll pay good money to see anything Mann puts to celluloid -- or DV or etc.

comment #2

Bart Smith says ...

For the money spent on MIAMI VICE, we should have gotten two Michael Mann movies.

comment #3

akabob says ...

I would think "Miami Vice" would be able to pick a big chunk of change overseas. I hope so as this is a movie that deserves to be seen (on the big screen). Like all of Michael Mann's other films (except "The Keep") it will find its audience sooner or later. However, $150M is a bloated budget. Mann can & has done much better with much less. Here's to a big screen resurrection of Lt. Mike Torello & the MCU.

comment #4

frank says ...

But Mann doesn't want to work down to the bone when it comes to a production. Wasn't Collateral supposed to be a down and dirty low budget production until Mann came along. He doesn't turn the camera off. He shoots weeks worth of film. And he enjoys a certain lifestyle during a shoot.

Marty had a passion to make Last Temptation and he sacrificed a lot to get the budget together. Do you really think Mann would go as low as Marty? He's a big show director. He's not going to stay at the Budget Inn. Miami Vice felt like it was a TV movie - especially with the HD. It was hard to see how it cost $150 million. Was there anything in that film that wasn't done on the TV show for a tiny fraction of the budget?

This is his third bust out of 4 films. Who wants to gamble with the guy? Maybe Mann should go make a project for HBO and take the box office monkey off his back.

comment #5

sprofessor says ...

Great film and in the long run, like all Mann's films, i think it will make most of its money back but i agree that far too much money was spent. It seems to me that with a little economy the same film probably could have been made for alot less. But then i'm not a movie producer so what would i know.

I don't think this will hurt Mann too much. Since establishing himself as a director he's never had much trouble getting films made. Besides if that was really a concern for him he would have made a much safer film, which he didn't. Of course if he makes another big budget bomb then all bets are off...

Has anyone heard anything concrete about what Mann's next project might be? imdb's info is outdated and unreliable.

comment #6

Anonymous says ...

Sprofessor: How will Vice "make most of its money back"? If it cost $150 million and another $60 million was spent on prints and marketing, as Jeffrey indicates, and the film makes $60 million at the American box office, with only $30 million of that going to Universal... how much foreign would you have to do and how many DVDs would you have to sell to make up the shortfall separating $30 million and $200 million-plus?

comment #7

BL says ...

Why do people make such a big deal about domestic grosses? Isn't money money? I am not surprised MV has not done well here, but I WOULD be surprised if it does not clean up overseas.

And for the record, MV got quite a few bad reviews - OK, I'm not looking at Rotton Tomatoes, but my impression is the reviews have run about 50-50.

comment #8

Anonymous says ...

The mainstream movie audience, going to a theatre in the summer to see a movie of "Miami Vice," would have expected something fun and entertaining (more along the lines of "Lethal Weapon", not the sombre movie Mann made. This is why the movie failed.

comment #9

CCA says ...

What's the consensus here about this movie? I would have seen it opening wekend but I was back east for a funeral. My buddy, who is a HUGE Michael Mann fan (like myself, only times ten) saw it in the meantime and told me "wait for DVD." I near fell out of my chair.

comment #10

Mathew says ...

I had minimal interest in Miami Vice and had even less after the luke warm reviews came in. Michael Mann seems to garner idol worship amongst the Gen-X film geeks but Collateral, the last Mann film I've seen left me a little underwhelmed outside of the performances. I dare say that Mann is overrated. He's got the urban vibe thing down but that doesn't make him a great filmmaker in the same vein as Scorsese. His style is also fairly mimic-able as seen in movies like Crash and the upcoming Rocky Balboa.

Miami Vice might have worked better as a HBO series.

comment #11

Mann and $$$ says ...

The Last of the Mohicans - $70 Million
Heat - $65 Million
The Insider - $29 Million
Ali - $58 Million
Collateral - $100 Million

Some of these aren't bad numbers, but who on Earth at Universal thought it was a wise idea to give Mann $135+ million to make "Miami Vice?" His track record in no way warranted such a budget. Universal has only themselves to blame.

comment #12

Nicol D says ...

Damn. Damn. Damn.

I loved the film and so wanted it to become a 'property' item with a sequel etc.

Now it looks like it will only be a one off.

I'm seeing it again with a friend on Thursday.

comment #13

Patrick says ...

'Miami Vice' was AWFUL and I love that it's a
total bomb! Please get back to the basics, Mr. Mann! Like that 'Gates of Hell' book you were
going to adapt.

comment #14

Frank says ...

He should have made a movie about DEA agents and left Miami Vice alone. What's the point of using characters he didn't create and being in creative control of a series he never directed?

Mann is about to enter that same era that dogged J. Lee Thompson. Maybe Mann will try his hands at some Planet of the Apes movies.

comment #15

Larry says ...

Miami Vice is the most worthless film I've seen this year (and I've seen plenty). Story, bad. Dialogue (what little there was), bad. Acting, bad. Even all that grainy stuff shot at night got to be tiresome.

I wasn't a big fan of the TV show, but two episodes strung together would have been more entertaining.

comment #16

Nicol D says ...

Comparing Michael Mann to J. Lee Thompson?

That's like saying Steven Spielberg is about to enter into his Michael Winner phase.

comment #17

Dave at Garfield Ridge says ...

The great thing about Mann is, even when some people think he sucks, he really doesn't.

Miami Vice was a very good movie. Not great, but it succeeded at what it was: an adult action movie. Admittedly shallow, but sumptuous to watch.

Some people don't like that; to each their own. But no one can deny the craft and precision that goes into Mann's movies.

Well, no one, that is, except for the "audience."

What I don't get is how his movies don't make B.O., when they end up pretty much universally loved once they hit DVD and TV. If, say, Last of the Mohicans or Heat shows up on TV, *you stop and watch*. It's that simple. And I know plenty of people who love Mann's movies. . . once they see them on DVD, or on cable.

It's not that folks don't "get" Michael Mann-- he's definitely a craftsman, but he's not some obscure overrated elitist crap French filmmaker. He makes popular entertainments, but he makes them *very well*. I guess that just confuses some people initially, but people always seem to come around eventually.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

comment #18

Dixon Steele says ...

Lots of posters here worship at the House of Mann.

And I like his films.

But MIAMI VICE was like high-priced hack work.

Nothing special at all, even with the gorgeous Gong Li.

It was obvious word-of-mouth would be bad when I saw it.

Enough with the TV show adaptations, Hollywood.

Mann should've known better, but it was Jamie Foxx who suggested it. At least HE got paid!

comment #19

Daniel Zelter says ...

Movie versions of tv shows are usually risky business, and $150 million for a buddy cop movie is even more insane, unless you have big names attached to it. Hell, even with Mel, the fourth Lethal Weapon flick only made a fraction of the profit of the previous two films.

comment #20

Mike Gebert says ...

I revere Mann as much as the next Mann-reverer, but he set out to make a cop movie mood piece instead of a movie with characters and a plot, and he succeeded. Unfortunately.

comment #21

nickc says ...

miami vice is my favorite movie of the year (not necessarily the BEST) and I am fucking disgusted at the fact that nobody is going to see it. Where are the men who want to see a kick ass action drama with awesome cop-violence with a high sex quotient (featuring the hottest of hot Gong Li) and boats and copters and ferraris and machine guns and complete machismo running off the screen? it saddens me as a man to see the day where a great piece of entertainment like this is lost on the general male population. i yearn for the days of die hard, lethal weapon, and simpson-bruckheimer-tony scott and all of those awesome summer movies. R rated, unaplogetic, and completely fucking ass kicking. If i ever get my way out here and make the kinds of movies i want to make, there will be a return to old glory.

comment #22

Anonymous says ...

Amen, brother, amen!!

comment #23

Nick says ...

I want to know what the technology cost vs. the actual production costs. In the long run, that 135 might net us a couple of cheaper Mann films using the same cameras.

comment #24

mitch says ...

MV was a total waste of time and energy. Please, Mann, do something with REAL atmosphere, like Manhunter.

Strong as I Am!

Yeah...that's the shit, baby

comment #25

Anonymous says ...

Jeff,you BOMBED,I will never forgive you for loving such a STINKER.

comment #26

Anonymous says ...

nickc, I agree with you that we need more hard assed R rated action movies. But Miami vice just sucked. It was bloated and dull. Running Scared was more hardcore and the upcoming Smokin Aces looks kick ass as well.

comment #27

The King says ...

Listen you buttwipes, MV opens in Australia this Thursday so final judgement will be passed by THE KING after I see it then.

comment #28

guy steele says ...

Whoa boy... I finally saw MV! Way better than Collateral. I enjoyed the latter but MV was just so unexpected. The MV team got involved in what should have been a Fed situation because they wanted to sink their teeth into the Arian group. This of course lead to bigger, badder crime lords and the MV cops could go undercover easier than the feds... it's what they do.

I don't go to a Mann film for realism. I go for the craftmanship.
Nobody make's 'em like Mann. Does that make him the 'best' director? No. Just one of the most interesting when it comes to framing, lighting, cinematography.

I know that Mann does like his films to have tension and action and I have always thought it unique that my favorite Mann movie doesn't have his cool action moments: The Insider. That movie is an American Masterpiece.

I agree with many of the posters above: Mann makes ADULT movies period. He doesn't pander to the audience. Neather did Kubrick who is a similar director in terms of perfection.

Not only are his movies ADULT but they are also COOL to watch.
They are involving. They move at their own pace.

But as other's here have mentioned I to wonder what the $150 Million was spent on.

The actors here are not in the $20 million range. Does the Viper really cost that much? And if he's shooting on Tape it shouldn't matter how much he unspools in terms of cost of tape vs. stock.

Oh one other thing: The villians in MV were pitch perfect. No one was over the top, no one chewed the scenery... Yet the three main ones were perfect. The Arian... chewing his cud, doing what he was told. The Middle Guy... wanting to be on top, so sure of himself, unrelenting in his beliefs, always in control and the Head Boss... Smooth, silky, nothing bothers him... he never sweats, never raises his voice...

They were the best things in the movie besides the movie itself.

comment #29

Rich S. says ...

Still mad that Mann didn't make Gates of Fire. Now Zack Snyder is almost finished with Frank Miller's 300, pretty much saturating the market for Thermopylae films. I hear Snyder's film is at least visually stunning, but I was looking forward to a Mohicans-esqe serious take on Pressfield's novel, rather than an adaptation of a comic book.

Oh, well. Maybe Mann can do Tides of War instead. I'd like to see whom he would cast as Alcibiades.

comment #30

Webster says ...

Liked MV. Didn't love it. Not a masterpiece. Not worth $130 million. But not deserving of the hateration that some folks here are giving it. Why are posters so eager to root for failure?

comment #31

Rich says ...

Clerks 2 out of the top twenty after only three weeks of release. I know the "View Askew" universe has shrunk and all, but wow.

comment #32

clarkman says ...

I suspect the bad reviews aren't killing MIAMI VICE nearly as much as the word-of-mouth. I haven't talked to anyone who hated the movie (myself included) ... nor have I heard from anyone saying, "Wow, ya just gotta see this on the big screen!" Myself included.

Has anyone spoken to the stale vibe of the franchise itself? Even though Mann does an admirable job trying to distance this movie from its hackneyed 80s roots, it's hard to shake the painful memory of shit-slick Don Johnson and that other guy wearing pastel t-shirts and white blazers and feigning tough guy attitude against a throbbing 80s-synth soundtrack.

I think people hear the words "miami" and "vice" and it's all they can do not to grimace. Mann should've made a killer cop drama hewn from an original premise, something not tied to such a dated franchise.

comment #33

guy steele says ...

To Mr. Clarkman: Dude... hate'n on the Don? Why for? The Don was cool back then. From Boy and his Dog to Dead Bang to The Hot Spot and MV this dude was killer smooth. Sure he made his share of craptacular cinema but even messes like Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man is funky cool trash.

And then if hate'n on The Don isn't enough your trashin MV: The TV show! Granted in today's terms it is really outdated. But for it's time it was groundbreaking. Mixing the hit music of it's day to visuals hadn't been done. The shoot-outs had never been shot like they were here. This show had a new way of mixing meanness, cops, attitude, fashion and comedy.

This was THE SHOW for the smart male/female cop/action lovers during the '80's until Wiseguy showed up and changed things again. And yes I know Hill St. Blues was out there as well... and it too was groundbreaking... and boy it doesn't hold up now either. But Wiseguy does. Trust me on that.

I would have liked to see MV: The Movie made as a new cop film sure... but I am sure the suits and Mann felt that the title was pre-sold. Maybe it was a mistake... the title... but the movie sure wasn't!

comment #34

Kevin M says ...

My girlfriend asked why does this look like a student film? She asked the same question when we watched Collateral-actually her exact remark with Collateral was “why do it look so raw, like they couldn’t afford to film it”. I really don't know why MV looks like a student film considering that the movie cost 150 million to make. That money was not on screen at all. I don't know how professional DP can rave about digital looking like film when it just doesn't. I don't understand the need to invent a technology that is only as good as a 100-year-old technology? Just doesn't make sense. If the thing look far superior to film then fuck film but you're looking at something that still doesn't match the look. The other day I was watching the Phantom Menace and I thought wow why does this one look so much better the ep 2 and 3? Turns out it was the only one shot of film (In my opinion if you minus jar jar and Jake Lloyd Ep 1 is the best of the prequels in terms of the camera’s ability to actually articulate beats between actors not to mention that for some reason in that film Lucas’s camera is actually expressive (to some extent), I actually got a sense of what he as a director felt about his subjects not something I find in his other films, maybe cause I can’t get pass all the exposition I just want to shut my eyes I mean if you going to keep telling me why watch at all.)

Any way MV was very hard to believe indeed. Never thought I would be sitting in a Mann film bored to tears. I hate it when filmmakers don't realize that the idea for their film is only cool to them-that there is nothing in the idea that is interesting to the public at all. Like "Rumor Has it" who the fuck cares if her family is the real Robinsons?????? I don’t know any one who ever saw The Graduate and thought, “hmmm I wonder who the real Robinson's are.” MV is the same I can't tell you why they thought it would be a good movie to make other than that the fact MV has name brand recognition.

comment #35

Jay T. says ...

The problem with Miami Vice is they seem to take it all too seriously... and some of the dialogue is disturbingly over-the-top. "You think I'm so far under I don't know which way is up?" Ughh...

comment #36

Scott says ...

I think once this thing get on DVD and gets on TV it will catch on like any Mann flick, the theatre I saw it at was nothing but guys and the few who made the descision that week. And I talked to a group of them after and they loved it, and I think once the longer cut comes out some of the Mann fence sitters will come down on its side

Heat has its own over the top dialouge but it wouldnt be heat without it, and the Vice dialouge played much then you would think from the trailers

I would love for Man next to be "The Few" but with flyboys and the aviator I am not sure its a good time for another avaition movie, also I think Crusie has the rights so thereofre he woul not part with it if he wan not playing fiske, and thats another can of beans there

I think after international and dvd uni will be alright, Warners on the other hand has me worried thy benen baking some very good stuff such as the fountain, and wi a scanner darkly but poseidan and supes is just going to level them.

comment #37

Alexander says ...

After some considerable thinking, I think there's no doubt that Miami Vice is Michael Mann's second worst film (that dishonor belongs to the horrible The Keep). At least Ali had Will Smith's best performance in the middle of it, driving it even as the pacing and screenplay were harming the film from underneath him. Miami Vice had very little; Colin Farrell was all right and Gong Li was... easy on the eyes... but aside from that, nada. Jamie Foxx was wasted (perhaps because of his own actions, leaving the Bahamas, etceteras) and Mann's dialogue was really, really bad at times.

It's too bad. I had spent a lot of time looking forward to it. But, now, it really leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth. This year has been one of disappointment following disappointment. As someone said in another thread recently, who would've thought M:I 3 would be the best big summer movie this year? Bleah.

comment #38

Dixon Steele says ...

Would it had really made a difference where they shot the ending? Not from my perspective, story-wise.

The problem is, Mann has become obsessed with technology. In this case, at the expense of story. Shooting in high-def video so you can see things happening 5 miles away. Who cares? It's what's happening in front of the lens that counts, right?

Maybe Mann needed this failure (and you better believe that's what it is, MM) to get back on track. Hope that happens. He's a smart, talented guy.

comment #39

Sergio says ...

I don't understand. I'm completely baffled. What could have have caused such a dropoff like that? It's a solid, action packed...oh wait, that's right..there is NO ACTION in the film except for a lame shootout at the end which you barely see or make out what's happeneing because of the crummy digital video photography which can't capture any movement clearly at night.

Aside also that there's a thin plot, pretentous (which means critics loved it) and the fact that Jaime Foxx, though he's listed above Colin Farrell, is just a glorified supporting actor in the film. He's gone for huge chunks of the movie and has anybody noticed that in many scenes he's either standing in the background or walking BEHIND Farrell? I don't blame Foxx for walking off the film