Chinese clarification

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That scene in The Departed when Jack Nicholson's gang meets that gang of Asian thugs to sell those stolen missile-guiding microchips? Jack mentions the basic concept of payment for goods, and to underline the point in a crudely ethnic vein, he says, "No tickee, no laundry." Wrong. The perjorative Chinese immigrant expression is "no tickee, no washee ."

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on October 22, 2006 at 11:24 PM

comment #1

Craig Kennedy says ...

Not that Urban Dictionary exactly the OED but I think both phrases are used:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dry+cleaners

Who nominated you keeper of the English language anyway? Does this mean we're all going to have to start saying 'graph' and 'mezzo-mezzo' now?

Posted by Craig Kennedy at October 22, 2006 11:53 PM

comment #2

jeffreywells says ...

Wells to cjKennedy: I know what sounds good. Comes with being a writer. "No tickee, no washee" has a ring...and "no tickee, no laundry" doesn't.

Posted by jeffreywells at October 23, 2006 12:00 AM

comment #3

PastePotPete says ...

Posts like this are why Poland doesn't think much of you. Not that you should care. But it is pretty pointless and stupid to even bring it up, weeks after the movie's release.

Posted by PastePotPete at October 23, 2006 12:48 AM

comment #4

Josh Martin says ...

This is pretty small potatoes compared to the way the "Chinese" gangsters completely mangle their native language.

Posted by Josh Martin at October 23, 2006 1:04 AM

comment #5

Aguirre says ...

Oh please, this is Jeff's self-appointed job, he's allowed to post about minutia like this. The reason Poland might not think much of him is because of the unearned ego that leads to comments such as "I know what sounds good. Comes with being a writer." Then again, the careful brew of his unearned ego and layman's intellect is what drives this site, so I can't complain.

Posted by Aguirre at October 23, 2006 1:04 AM

comment #6

jeffreywells says ...

Goddamn it, "no tickee, no laundry" is wrong!! I said it right, I know what i'm talking about, etc.

Posted by jeffreywells at October 23, 2006 1:22 AM

comment #7

jeffmcm says ...

It's rare that Wells deigns to post more than once in his own blog, so clearly he feels strongly about this one.

Posted by jeffmcm at October 23, 2006 1:57 AM

comment #8

Kristopher Tapley says ...

Ever consider the fact that Jack getting it wrong makes it even funnier?

Posted by Kristopher Tapley at October 23, 2006 2:06 AM

comment #9

Larry says ...

I'm with Wells on this one. It really bothered me when Jack got it wrong.

Posted by Larry at October 23, 2006 2:10 AM

comment #10

The Hoyk says ...

I've also heard the phrase as, "No tickee, no shirtee."

Plus, I wonder how many theatre operators have at one time in their life uttered, "No tickee, no movie."

Posted by The Hoyk at October 23, 2006 2:12 AM

comment #11

jeffmcm says ...

The Hoyk has it, that's the phrase I'm familiar with.

Posted by jeffmcm at October 23, 2006 2:13 AM

comment #12

Nick J says ...

I'm a writer, and I think "no tickee, no laundry" is funnier. So do you think that makes me a bad writer?

Posted by Nick J at October 23, 2006 5:19 AM

comment #13

Chris Molanphy says ...

I'm with Hoyk -- I grew up with "tickee...shirtee."

Just sayin'. I don't really have a dog in this fight, as Wells might say.

Posted by Chris Molanphy at October 23, 2006 5:29 AM

comment #14

Dave Polands Gut says ...

The guy is a gang leader not a scholar.

Posted by Dave Polands Gut at October 23, 2006 6:31 AM

comment #15

Hallick says ...

The movie didn't get the line wrong. "No tickee - no washee" may be the actual phrase, but "No tickee - no laundry" is a better line with a better sense of emotional poetry. It rises up goofy, then drops down on serious, going from stereotypical immigrant to proper American; which fits in better with the undertones of Costello doing his "in THIS country!" speech.

Posted by Hallick at October 23, 2006 7:24 AM

comment #16

storymark says ...

Goddamn it. Jeff's right. I mean, he said so and everything.

Or, to put it another way, who really gives a shit one way or the other?

I doubt that aligning his racial barb with some internet blogger's perceptions was a top priority for that particular mob boss.

Posted by storymark at October 23, 2006 8:38 AM

comment #17

adorian says ...

I taught ESL to adult Asian males for years, and "laundry" is a word they invariably had trouble with. (We had it on our pronunciation exercise handouts.)

An Asian speaking English would opt for the easier word "washee," which is much easier to pronounce. If Nicolson had said, "No tickee, no raundry," it would have been more interesting.

Posted by adorian at October 23, 2006 9:02 AM

comment #18

Ju-osh says ...

"I know what sounds good. Comes with being a writer."

You sound like an arrogant asshole here. Was that the writer's intent?

Posted by Ju-osh at October 23, 2006 9:07 AM

comment #19

le corbeau says ...

Definitely "no tickee no shirtee."

Probably changed because some 26-year-old in a focus group said they had no idea what it meant.

Posted by le corbeau at October 23, 2006 9:29 AM

comment #20

Mr. Muckle says ...

Jeff's right. Besides, why would a moron like Costello use a high-falutin word like "laundry?" The gangster's sense of power comes from getting DOWN, not uppity.

Posted by Mr. Muckle at October 23, 2006 9:57 AM

comment #21

jeffreywells says ...

Wells to bickering posters: adorian's post is the definitive one here. He taught Asian males for years, etc.

Wells to Nick J. and Ju-Osh: "No tickee, no washee" sounds more primitive and it just...you know, flows. It sounds right...rolls trippingly off the tongue in an old-fashioned racist Chinese laundryman sort of way.

And no, it's not arrogant or asshole-ish to say that being a writer gives you an ear for what sounds better. Musicians have an ear for good tunes and good hooks, and comedians know how to phrase a joke just so -- why can't writers have an ear for a good-sounding expression?

Repeating again to wax-in-his-ears Nick J: The reason "no laundry" sounds better is because Asians allegedly have trouble with the word laundry and have always preferred simpler sounds that are easier to say for them....c'mon, this is so elemental.

Posted by jeffreywells at October 23, 2006 10:35 AM

comment #22

Cadavra says ...

You could also argue that Costello is deliberately using the word to provoke the Asians, knowing that they probably can't pronounce it correctly.

I've always heard the line as "washee," but that doesn't ipso facto mean "laundry" isn't valid.

Posted by Cadavra at October 23, 2006 10:41 AM

comment #23

nemo says ...

Man, the folks defending "no tickee no laundry" are all wet. It's jarring when Nicholson says "no laundry". Completely wrong. Both Nicholson and Scorsese should know better.

If you're as old as I am, you spent your childhood in the 1960s watching crappy old 1930s and 40s movies and cartoons over and over again on television, and you heard the the phrase "no tickee no washee" over and over again. In Abbott and Costello movies. In Bugs Bunny cartoons. In Three Stooges shorts. In countless crappy old westerns and gangster movies. Not once would you ever have heard the likes of "no tickee no laundry".

Try Googling the two phrases. It's obvious that "no tickee no washee" is the preferred version.

Some scholar named Wolfgang Mieder even researched a scholarly paper on the phrase some years back, and he sure as shit didn't call his paper "no tickee no laundry". The full paper is not available on line, but you can see the opening page at:

"No Tickee, No Washee": Subtleties of a Proverbial Slur
Wolfgang Mieder
Western Folklore, Vol. 55, No. 1 (Winter, 1996), pp. 1-40

And a discussion of Mieder's paper in the broader context of 19th century dialect humor is in an essay by Terry Abraham at:

'No Tickee No Washee': Sympathetic Representations of the Chinese in American Humor

Abraham points out that many 19th and early 20th century racist jokes about the Chinese often end with the Chinese gaining the upper hand:

"The funny part is in the underdog unexpectedly being victorious . . . Similarly, 'No tickee, no washee' speaks to the Chinese laundryman's power over the transaction -- I won't give you your clothes if you don't have a receipt -- while making fun of his pidgin English. As Mieder points out, the expression has since been generalized as a humorous catch-phrase governing a wide range of transactions and not expressly related to the Chinese at all."

Mieder records the earliest documented use of the phrase as 1931, although Abraham believes it dates back at least 50 years earlier in California. And both of them cite what is probably the most famous cinematic use of the phrase, which probably in turn inspired all those imitiations by the Three Stooges, Abbott and Costello, et al. It was spoken by Philip Ahn in the 1937 Tex Ritter western "Tex Rides With the Boy Scouts":

http://www.philipahn.com/odds.html

Sing Fong: Hello, you come for laundlee?
Stubby: Yeah, sure. Is it ready?
Sing Fong: Sure. . . . You catchem tickee?
Stubby: Yeah, sure. . . . Gosh, I guess
I must have lost it.
Sing Fong: No tickee, no washee.
Stubby: But, doggone it. . . . I gotta
have that shirt.
Sing Fong: All samee. No tickee, no washee,
no shirtee. You bling tickee,
you catchem washee.

You can listen to the scene at the link, and see a still photo at http://www.philipahn.com/tex.html.

Philip Ahn had a more distinguished career than you might suspect from that sorry scene in a forgotten oater. The philipahn.com site is worth a look.

Philip Ahn was actually Korean-American, born in California, and not Chinese at all, although he played plenty of both Chinese and Japanese during his film career. He worked with a lot of respected actors and directors right from the beginning, such as Gary Cooper, Lewis Milestone, and Raoul Walsh, although most of his roles were absurd stereotypes.

But for modern audiences Ahn's most famous role was as David Carradine's Shaolin master in the "Kung Fu" television series. From the guy who made "no tickee no washee" famous to Grasshopper's master in a single career.

Anyway, Wells is right. The phrase is "no washee" or maybe "no shirtee". Nicholson and Scorsese bungled it with "no laundry". I bet the Chinese actors were grumbling in Mandarin: dammit, if you're going to have this ignorant mick character use a absurd racist phrase, at least have him get it right -- it's "no washee", not "no laundry"!

Posted by nemo at October 23, 2006 12:36 PM

comment #24

nemo says ...

Also, if you search IMDB on the keyword "tickee" you will find a 1915 comedy called "No Tickee, No Washee" and a 1921 cartoon called "No Tickee No Shirtee".

Nothing called "No Tickee No Laundry". The "no laundry" faction is all wet.

Posted by nemo at October 23, 2006 12:43 PM

comment #25

nemo says ...

By the way, the best joke at the Abrahams essay
"No Tickee No Washee"depicts the Chinese getting the upper hand. It's the one in which the white cowboys promise as a New Year's resolution to stop playing cruel practical jokes on their Chinese cook. The cook is skeptical about their resolution, and finally says: "Velly good. China-boy no piss in coffee anymore."

Posted by nemo at October 23, 2006 1:06 PM

comment #26

Ju-osh says ...

So does this officially knock The Departed out of the Oscar race?

Posted by Ju-osh at October 23, 2006 1:28 PM

comment #27

nemo says ...

The big problem with that scene isn't Nicholson bungling something as elementary as "no tickee no washee". The big problem is that the entire scene is so damn lame.

Here we have a movie based on a modern classic from Hong Kong, and that piece o' shite scene is all the more the Chinese actors get? Nicholson growls at them a little bit, they grumble back in Mandarin or Cantonese, and then they back down. That's it?!?

And -- spoiler alert -- Nicholson supposedly gets the better of them in such an obvious way by substituting phoney microchips? Come on! Did anybody in the audience buy that?

The goombahs in "The French Connection" way back in the early 70s brought a chemist with them to the hotel room to test the heroin the French had for sale. Surely the mainland Chinese government would have sent along some electrical engineer to do so elementary tests to make sure they were at least buying some real microprocessors.

Everything about that whole scene stank and pulled me right up out of the movie. And I still thought this was one of the better movies I've seen this year, which show you how sad the competition has been.

Getting the ethnic stereotype phrase wrong is just the tip of the iceberg that sank "The Departed". I can't count all the ways in which a potentially great movie was gradually dragged down to the level of a pretty good disappointment.

Posted by nemo at October 23, 2006 2:02 PM

comment #28