comment #1

Stephe96 says ...

Stanley Kubrick thought 'EWS' sucked, too? Join the club.

comment #2

Rich S. says ...

Man, now they're taking shots at Tom from beyond the grave! Will the indignities never end?

comment #3

jeffmcm says ...

There's no need to make Ermey into a 'nutter'. One of the first things you learn about analyzing art/literature is that the artist's opinion of his own work is often inconsequential. Woody Allen thinks most of his movies are passable at best. Spielberg and Scorsese's dream projects - Always and New York, New York - are far from their best works. And I have it on good authority that Beethoven never listened to his own 9th Symphony.

comment #4

DarthCorleone says ...

jeffmcm, that was the gist of what I was going to say as well. I'm a Kubrick fan, and I thought Eyes Wide Shut was great, but I'm not going to cast aspersions at Ermey for this story. So what if it's true? Kubrick's opinion of his own film doesn't change my opinion.

comment #5

DarthCorleone says ...

Oh, and not to be a typo-hound, but it's R. Lee Ermey.

comment #6

Larry says ...

Kurbick kept Cruise working so long that he had to miss other movies roles. He also had so many takes of each scene that he was able to pick and choose in post and give us one of Tom's worst performances. And Kubrick whines Tom had his way with him?

Kubrick's best film is Strangelove, where the actors were given enough room to breathe. (His second-best film is that 40-minute short about Marine training at the beginning of Full Metal Jacket.)

And what's all this nonsense about Ermey's politics. Who cares? I mean he's not even talking about politics here.

comment #7

jeffmcm says ...

Plus, Kubrick's opinion on it might have shifted over time, especially considering he probably never actually finished editing the film before he died.

comment #8

dcc77 says ...

I think the reason Beethoven never listed to his 9th Symphony was because he was already deaf. If that was a joke, Rich, I commend you.

"Eyes Wide Shut" improves (somewhat) with repeated viewings but if you look up the word 'phlegmatic' there's a picture of Nicole Kidman ballroom dancing with a horny Hungarian.

At the risk of getting meta on the HE site, once a film is released it becomes part of the public consciousness and thus the director's opinion of his/her work is secondary to the reaction from the populace and, to a lesser extent (due to biases), the critical community. In other words, does it really matter -- save for trivia purposes -- what Kubrick thought of "EWS" ex post facto, even if his retroactive comments were right on?

comment #9

christian says ...

it's crystal clear to me (but not those that defend EWS) that kubrick did not finish editing the film. it's the only way to explain why the variations of the same dialogue is repeated over and over...

comment #10

Mark says ...

One, as previously mentioned, this alleged conversation means nothing. Kubrick told others that EWS was his favorite movie. The themes of EWS definitely don't fall in Ermey's wheelhouse, and Kubrick likely knew it.

Two, as friends of Shelly Duvall can attest, no one should feel sorry for Stanley for being abused by actors.

comment #11

jeffmcm says ...

Speaking of repetitive dialogue, I watched The Untouchables recently and I swear, the dialogue exchange, "hey, what if we went after Capone for tax evasion?" "tax evasion, are you kidding?" happens three times in three different scenes.

comment #12

christian says ...

that's just mamet.

just.

mamet.

it's just.

mamet.

comment #13

Dixon Steele says ...

The scene in EYES between Kidman and the louche Hungarian is my favorite in the movie.

comment #14

otakuhouse says ...

Finally I gotta say something here.

I've had the pleasure of meeting R Lee Ermey, twice.

One of those times I had to interview him, on camera. R Lee is very gregarious and larger than life but I came away feeling there's no actual pretension or artifice in the man. He's a straight shooter. And when the camera was off he was a different, quieter, more thoughtful and candid person.

As a Kubrick obsessive, I believe that this actually happened. It's not uncommon for directors to tell friends that what they're working on is a piece of shit. It's not uncommon for directors to always feel what they're making is a piece of shit. I don't believe Kubrick felt he himself was a god of cinema; and had his own inward process and everything else about this jibes with all the anecodtal evidence about Kubrick and his relationships with actors. This sounds to me like someone talking to a trusted friend complaining maybe feeling a little lost in the process.

I think Eyes Wide Shut is an interesting failure; it was never finished given the director's propensity for cutting films after they were released. And the worst element of all is Cruise's performance - he doesn't have anywhere near the subtlely or inwardly neurotic qualities of someone lost in erotic reverie. His machismo and libido are always projected onscreen as either in the negative digits or full on dialed up to 11. Imagine what an actor like Clive Owen or Jude Law could've done with the part.

And he has obviously given his Scientological doctrination never used marijuana from the looks of that one scene.

What I have never seen, given last year's brouhaha, is something that came to my attention recently, which I think is worth a story. There's a Kubrick connection to Scientology that casts some of this in a sad, strange light. Maybe it isn't worth a story, but it sure is interesting.

comment #15

sardine says ...

eyes wide shut. it's poop. so are a lot of his movies. However, the great ones are v. great -Lolita and Strangelove for instance.

comment #16

jeffmcm says ...

I would actually call Lolita his worst movie. It doesn't have the spark of the novel and Sellers upstages Mason.

comment #17

otakuhouse says ...

I agree on Lolita, but one last thing I forgot to say -

Off camera, when he's not being that persona, Ermey speaks of Kubrick with the utmost respect and admiration. Which a lot of actors who have worked with him won't give you. Ermey is more than a caricture, too. He went back for a tour in Vietnam of his own volition; he's had demons he's obviously faced.

Ermey will talk shit about people straight up, heedless of consequences, but when he talks about Kubrick, you can feel the affection.

comment #18

le corbeau says ...

Kubrick was no shrinking violet. I mean, in his 20s he bossed Kirk Douglas, Laurence Olivier and Charles Laughton around, what's Tom Cruise next to those three? But on the other hand, he was 70, he hadn't made a movie in 14 years, he'd been living in his insular world for a long time, and he may well have felt on some days like it had been a big mistake to ever actually start production instead of tinkering in the garage with concept drawings and Panavision cameras to the end of his days. This sounds like the down phase of someone a little bipolar, and much of the rest of Kubrick's career plays like the up phase-- manic energy ready to do great things and to hell with anyone who says otherwise. That's my armchair diagnosis....

comment #19

Hopscotch says ...

There was this documentary on AMC called "Hollywood Vietnam" or "Vietnam through Hollywood", typical talking head w/clips doc. But Ermey went off on Coppola, he said words to the effect of "I was a technical advisor on Apocolypse Now, but do you think means that Francis would actually take my advice?"

Modine spoke very fondly of Kubrick when they went into Full Metal Jacket. forgot what Ermey said. The doc had both Chuck Hagel and Max Clealand on it talking about their experiences, for that kind of doc it was pretty good.

comment #20

cbuckie says ...

Does anyone actualy think that Jack Nicholson was a push over to direct in The Shining? I'm sure Kubrick could hold his own with any actor. And EWS was completed and turned over to Warner Brothers about 2 weeks before his death, so it was the version he wanted.

comment #21

jeffmcm says ...

What's your source for that '2 weeks before his death' piece of info?

comment #22

cbuckie says ...

The only reference I can find for it right now is the IMDB entry for EWS, but it says he turned in his final cut 4 days before his death. I thought I had read 2 weeks somewhere else.

comment #23

DeafEars says ...

I don't think Ermey is a nutter, but I do think he may be something of a bullshit artist. Kubrick didn't generally stay in touch with his actors unless they were very high-powered like Nicholson. So I doubt that Kubrick talked with Ermey at all about EWS, and if he did he may have talked about difficulties he was having, which Ermey then blew up into K. thinking his film was a piece of shit.

comment #24

Nate West says ...

Since Ermey believes all liberals are unpatriotic Communists at heart, my assumption is that he and left-leaning Kubrick were not as "close" as advertised.

comment #25

Michael says ...

If you honestly think that where one falls on the political spectrum is how they determine who their friends are...well, that's just kinda sad.

comment #26

christian says ...

yeah, i'm sure emery must hate liberals.

that's why he keeps making movies in hollywood.

and kubrick had a rep for odd phone calls out of the blue at odd hours, so i believes him.

but it was clealy cruise who had a say in editing EWS, which explains why you never see that marijuana joint touch his lips in perhaps the phoniest getting high scene in movie history. kidman is just awful with that phony laughter.

comment #27

jeffmcm says ...

There is no friggin way Kubrick would have let Cruise have any say in his editing.

comment #28

christian says ...

i don't think kubrick's ghost would have been there to debate cruise.

and one of the biggest problems with EWS is kubrick's blatant use of two stars who had no business being in the film.

but then i think the film had no business of being in the film...

comment #29

D.Z. says ...

Xenu Jr. is not having a good year.

comment #30

maria says ...

Tom had two ulcere
SK was an obssessive controlling director, very tough on his actors.
And Tom was very good in it, very interior and powerful.

Someone dared to mentionned the flack J Law. Please!!! stop smoking man ;)