comment #1

christian says ...

i love it when rush limbaugh speaks out on medical issues. a man who was pumping heroin into his body everyday for years is clearly the best expert on "taking medication."

the fox ad is brilliant and points out the shameful duplicity of the so called compassionate conservatism.

but then where is NYC on this? probably taking notes from rush so he knows what to think...

comment #2

FilmTurtle says ...

I heard this being discussed on the radio today. A doctor specializing in Parkinson's said sufferers from the disease are in a bind; they can decide not to take an effective medicine and have their bodies become stiff and unresponsive; or they can take the medicine, as Fox apparently did, and suffer the side effect of shaking and tremors.

He's also said that shooting his guest appearances on "Boston Legal" were especially difficult, apparently because he had to go off the meds and shoot the scenes before his body became unresponsive (that would seem to be the case anyway).

comment #3

Hash says ...

I love when folks like Jeff who know nothing about the issues attempt to argue them.

Nobody is arguing against stem cell research. At all. What they ARE arguing about is embryonic stem cell research. Kind of a different thing. In fact, a completely different thing.

People like Jeff give anti-Bush folks like me a bad name.

comment #4

Hash says ...

Oh, and more food for thought: Fox, although I feel as bad as anyone for him, wrote in his book in plain english that any time he goes on TV or in front of a crowd to discuss this issue, he neglects to take his medication for the days leading up to it so his symptoms will be more pronounced.

Im all for stem cell research, but please, know what you are talking about, folks.

comment #5

jeffmcm says ...

That doesn't take into account that, if Fox were to skip his medication, he would be rigid and immobile. His medication is what makes him look spastic and jerky and not the other way around.

comment #6

christian says ...

hash, you are wrong. NOT taking his medication reduces him to an almost catatonic state. TAKING it gives him mobility, if only of the spastic kind.

of course fox has responded:

FOX: I’m kinda lucky right now. It’s ironic, given some things that have been said in the last couple days, that my pills are working really well right now.

and that same embryonic stem cell research could help crippled iraq veterans, so the right wing has again proven their hypocrisy.

comment #7

christian says ...

and here's the video link:

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/25/fox-limbaugh-parkinson/

what a sad little fat man rush is.

comment #8

iamanerd says ...

My problem with the right on this is that if you are willing to concede that stem cells could help, then you can't bitch about where they come from. Besides, any time we lefties want it both ways, the righties call us on it. We're just turning the tables on this one. They say cut and run; we call it getting the whoosafudge out of dodge.

comment #9

crabbieshollywood.blogspot.com says ...

Limbaugh's a dink, but that Fox ad is a bit manipulative.

comment #10

NYCBusybody says ...

Many people, particularly religious and/or Catholics, believe destroying an embryonic life form is killing a human being. Embryonic stem cell research also would employ hyper-stimulation of ovaries and eggs, for a painful extraction procedure that could, and has in S. Korea, led to human cloning, which, along with when the issue of when human life begins (embryo? fetus? 3 months? 6 months? birth), are all issues of a serious ethical and moral debate. Many feminists actually oppose this procedure (http://handsoffourovaries.com/manifesto.htm), and some conservatives such as Nancy Reagan and Bill Frist are quite open to allowing research. I myself am not exactly sure where I stand, as I take both sides seriously.

http://handsoffourovaries.com/manifesto.htm

But that kind of talk is of course beneath liberals. Fox's deplorable ad trys to manipulatively supercede all of that, and of course, on emotive, demonizing-prone lefties, it'll work. As much as I generally like Limbaugh, I think he's wrong as far as Fox acting or faking - but that's not really the important issue we should be discussing. Considering the fact that this post will of course, without question, be followed by typical liberal demonization of Bush and Christians (as has already proceeded my post), proves my point. And if the Amendment (which seeks to constitutionally protect human cloning for research purposes) fails, I think Fox should blame himself. I don't like being bullied into deciding on an issue by disgusting acts of manipulation like that.

comment #11

thetruthandnothingbut says ...

so NYC, I assume you also believe that Republicans waving photographs of a comatose Terry Schiavo, followed by the Senate Majority leader brandishing secret videotapes of her and catscans claiming - without a diagnosis - that she could be revived, also "disgusting acts of manipulation?"

Because if you do not, then you are a raving hypocrite. Which, of course, you are not, right?

comment #12

davidtice says ...

Well said, NYCBusybody! Voices like Fox's need to be silenced now from the public airwaves!! Deplorable and disgusting indeed!

comment #13

NYCBusybody says ...

I don't think he needs to be silenced, or even not be allowed on the airwaves. I just wish he'd not manipulate the actual issue at hand (an Amendment to the actual Missouri State constitution that would not only legalize embryonic stem cell research, but also human cloning), by simply saying "Jim Talent opposes stem-cell research", which isn't true at all (he, like most Republicans, supports adult stem-cell research). If we are to have a debate on embryonic stem-cell research, fine, bring it on, and let Fox be a part of it. But that's not what is happening, either with the Amendment OR Fox's ad, and I find that kind of manipulation disgusting, yes.

comment #14

NYCBusybody says ...

And yes, thetruthandnothingbut, I was not a fan of the Bill Frist-led Republican charge against Terri Schiavo. I supported her right to die. I, like many Americans who aren't liberal Democrats, see a difference between Right to Life, and Right to Death. Schiavo had a choice.

And I found the imagery used by many Republicans to be particularly manipulative during that matter.

comment #15

NYCBusybody says ...

That's the nature of intensely polarized, two-party politics. Democrats call Republicans Nazis and Parkinson-suffering-supporters, and Republicans call Democrats baby murderers and moral degenerates. So, since independent thought isn't encouraged by being able to vote for middle parties, if one is to have a say, one must choose the lesser of those two evils.

Because I'm demonized by the left for being a proud supporter of traditional, nuclear family values, for standing up for the history-changing impact the American capitalist economy has had on the entire world's standard of living, and being opposed to racial preferences and discrimination in universities (not to mention even being open to the idea, non-religious as I am, that a fetus may be human life), I might as well go with Republicans. They share more core values with me, even if not all.

comment #16

Geoff says ...

Go Jeff!!! We need a full-bore investigation and study on embryonic stem cells. It's something I feel very strongly about for personal reasons. I'm starting to despise those religious nuts who value human life oh so much. If there is a God, I've always believed he would understand our cause.

comment #17

davidtice says ...

To NYC: only a moron doesn't understand what Fox means when he says "Jim Talent opposes stem-cell research". I live in Missouri. NOBODY is debating adult stem cell or umbilical stem cell research. By the way, yes, there is a stem cell amendment on the ballot. Fox's ad is a statement that points out that a vote for Claire McCaskill is a vote for a Senate more likely to re-instate federal funds for embryonic stem cell research. So, an endorsement for Claire is disgustingly manipulative in what way?

comment #18

NYCBusybody says ...

Because the obvious point of the message is that if you, like Jim Talent, don't support embryonic stem cell research, you're a heartless, evil person who makes beloved actors shake.

This argument could have been made without showing Fox, yes, but then it wouldn't have had the same emotional impact. I'm aware of that, but it's still manipulative, and avoiding the real debate. And no, not all Missourians may be aware that the issue at hand is embryonic research. Should they not be allowed to at least hear that before they make up their minds?

comment #19

davidtice says ...

By the way, since when did right-wingers become such sticklers about decorum in political ads?

comment #20

christian says ...

"Many people, particularly religious and/or Catholics, believe destroying an embryonic life form is killing a human being."

of course many people, particularly religious ones, believe killing people in iraq is for a noble cause. and religious leaders like pat robertson openly advocate assassination. which makes this plea fall on the deafest of ears.

comment #21

NYCBusybody says ...

I believe killing insurgents in Iraq is for a noble cause, and that those opposed are primarily motivated by either the Marxist ideal that everything America does is economically-driven, or simply and actually being on the side of terrorists, wanting the U.S. to lose a war so it makes Democratic defeatists look good - and I'm not a Christian at all, so it takes all kinds to make a world go 'round.

comment #22

D.Z. says ...

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/216738

comment #23

christian says ...

you again ignore the central question NYC.

look at your family and say, "i trust george bush to drop bombs on us if things get out of hand in my country."

you ignore the thousands upon thousands of innocents killed when we lied to the world and invaded a country that had a tank, twelve rifles and an army surplus rocket launcher.

the insurgents might not be only terrorists. they might now be people whose neighbor's daughter was raped and burned by US troops.

i know as a rightie you don't play nuance, but the truth is within.

comment #24

Jeremy Smith says ...

"...and that those opposed are primarily motivated by either the Marxist ideal that everything America does is economically-driven, or simply and actually being on the side of terrorists..."

You honestly believe that? I lean left, as do most of my friends, and I don't know a single person who would make such silly assertions. Sounds like you've been listening to too much talk radio and watching way too much Fox News.

comment #25

christian says ...

that was funny d.z. awful but i laughed.

comment #26

agrayesq says ...

I'm neither a republican nor a democrat. I'd have to consider myself a liberal though since one of things I believe is that every parent should have the right to abort their child up to the age of eighteen. With that kind of leeway it truly could be called intelligent design. MJF should be applauded for his commercials. Just making them looks hard enough. It shows me that democrats have finally "got it". This is the way to win elections as the repubs have proven. Who cares about decency any more? Neither side has shown any inclination. To those that advocate more parties? You really think that's going to change things? All you'll have is multiple skanks showing ignorance and duplicity. Go all out, my fellow americans. To paraphrase Jack...When you're facing down the barrels of Dems or Repubs..."What"s the difference?"

comment #27

le corbeau says ...

"I was not a fan of the Bill Frist-led Republican charge against Terri Schiavo. I supported her right to die."

Let's remember that that was her husband's right to have her die according to what he claimed were her wishes, wishes unknown to anyone else in her family.

comment #28

agrayesq says ...

Don't leave out the fact that her parents didn't raise a stink until after they realized they weren't going to get a cut of the insurance money that TS's husband was getting. Talk about disingenuous.

comment #29

D.Z. says ...

http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/theone.html

comment #30

chad says ...

My wifes dad had to stop taking his meds just so he could walk her down the aisle. It's not easy because when he took the meds he would shake almost uncontrollably, but if he didn't take them he would go rigid and would be unable to move. Thats what the disease does. It takes just the right timing to go off your meds and function, before going rigid. Most people are misinformed and think the shaking is caused by Parkinson's.

comment #31

Alan Cerny says ...

Yeah, if those people against stem cell research would only shut up, I could sit down to a nice fetus steak. Give me a small fucking break.

comment #32

iamanerd says ...

Politicians have always had celebrity supporters, both financially and folks out stumping for them. Fox doesn't support Talent, nor does he support certain policies Talent has said he would. I don't see what the controversy here it. If I don't like a candidate, it doesn't matter if you don't like my reasons. It doesn't matter if we don't agree with Fox. The bottom line is that voters in Missouri have to decide to want stem cell research to be allowed in any setting, or not. If that is the issue that will have a voter decide between the two candidates, then that is the process. I didn't vote for Bush either time because of two or three issues I can't budge on. All candidates hitch their wagons to certain issues, so why be pissed in voters do to? Bush hooked his wagon to tax cuts, conservative values, and other things, and he got elected. That's life kids.

comment #33

MoroccoMole says ...

It's also worth noting that Limbaugh didn't actually apologize -- he mealy-mouthed his way out of it with an "IF I'm wrong, then I apologize..." statements.

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/10/gop-commentator-limbaugh-refuses-to.html

comment #34

D.Z. says ...

chad: I'm sorry for your dad, Fox, and anyone who has to endure a similar terminal illness. Maybe in a more enlightened time, we as a country will spend more resources treating these things, and not just dropping cancer-causing uranium on civilians.

comment #35

Stephe96 says ...

At the risk of sounding cold and heartless...can somebody please explain to me why, say, Fox's home country of Canada has not yet cured Parkinson's Disease? What about Japan? Or France?

I'm all for curing every disease out there, but this idea of implying that a single Missouri senator is our only obstacle to finding a cure is ludicrous. Why isn't Michael J. Fox going before Canadian Parliment and demanding a cure from them?

comment #36

christian says ...

well, fox is an american now. and canada has a large parkinson's research facility.

and just one state may not a cure make but it leads to an opening for more research. is that a logic stretch?

one could also argue that america has some of the best medical research in the world.

but i'm glad rush chose to open his yap once again and whine into the void of his soul. this is the man george bush called a "good american" which if anything proves bush is a liar.

comment #37

D.Z. says ...

Stephe: I'm guessing because Fox is an American citizen?

Seriously, fuck conservatives for turning their backs on one of the few celebrities who was a spokesman for the free market for almost two decades. Their hypocrisy and double-standards are proof that it's only "free" for them, because they get subsidies, while the rest of people in Fox's condition, but without his money, can't even get
minimal coverage.

comment #38

Monument says ...

I work for the Christopher Reeve Foundation, so there's really no need to accuse me of a bias, I have one. I'll just say that the issue of stem cell research is so much bigger than politics. The fact is that both sides of the debate are woefully under educated, and in many cases willfully ignorant. Most people against stem cell research cannot even explain what a stem cell is.

It's easy to campaign against stem cell research when you live in an able bodied world, but try spending some time among people with disabilities and it might change your perspective. For people with disabilities, this research represents hope.

Sorry for the rant, you can all go back to flaming each other and insulting Jeff.

comment #39

mdc says ...

"I believe killing insurgents in Iraq is for a noble cause."

This must be the saddest, stupidest, most simple-minded sentence anyone has ever left on this blog. To dismiss the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of human lives, many if not most of them not even engaged in combat as "killing insurgents" leaves one breathless. It really is hard to respond. Is it that some people think it's "cool" to appear so callous and dense? And with all we know now, to still attribute Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld's motives to a "noble cause" beggars belief.

As for the motives attributed to anyone opposed to the war (about 95% of the world's population), why comment, what's the point? There's no arguing with someone so willfully blind.

comment #40

Jeremy Smith says ...

True, mdc, but I believe in giving people at least one opportunity to back off of unreasonable statements.

comment #41

MAGGA says ...

"I believe killing insurgents in Iraq is for a noble cause, and that those opposed are primarily motivated by either the Marxist ideal that everything America does is economically-driven, or simply and actually being on the side of terrorists, wanting the U.S. to lose a war so it makes Democratic defeatists look good - and I'm not a Christian at all, so it takes all kinds to make a world go 'round."

If you believe that your life is worth something even if youre not born in America, you should see other arguments. Some believe as many as 600 000 people have died as a result of the invasion. If this is true, and the aim is to prevent another 911, in human lives the tragedy has been magnified 200 times. Even if one only considers American lives, the number has surpassed the deaths of 911. Terrorism around the world has increased, the claims made to justify the war has turned out to be false, Americans have lost many of their civil liberties, what on earth is noble about this policy?

As for using Michael Fox to "manipulate" peoples emotions, I seem to remember Bush surrounding himself with children and their parents as he announced his veto against this research. How is that better? And not wanting Fox to show his illness is a by now familiar tactic similar to not showing the coffins of soldiers. Keep the problem out of sight, and it will be easier to spin the morality.

comment #42

MattyC says ...

Jeremy Smith: Don't hold your breath.

MAGGA: That would be the Snowflake Children, as immortalized in this Daily Show clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I90g_N1aDHc

comment #43

LFF says ...

yeah.. what agrayesq said. The Right has zero moral authority to criticize this ad after decades of similar ads: Do you remember seeing those ERA type law ads that went out of their way to find the most queeny looking gay people, willie horton, Ann richards is secretly a lesbian, John McCain has an illegitimate black baby, The Swift boats?

Its nice to see the democrats actually fighting back for once.

comment #44

TKC says ...

I agree with what the other folks have said, re: Fox's right to appear on TV and address an issue that means a lot to him. (If asking people to stand up and place a human face on the issues affecting them is a reprehensible liberal trick, I'm guessing it's news to every soldier's mother, cop's widow, Afghani woman and Iraqi voter who's been conveniently seated next to Laura Bush for the past six State of the Union addresses.)

As for embryonic stem cell research, a few bits of clarification: The Missouri law explicitly bans human cloning. Seriously -- go read it. It says, "No person may clone or attempt to clone a human being." Seems pretty clear to me.

Also: Egg harvesting, while it may be painful, isn't deadly, nor is it against the law -- it takes place all the time in fertility clinics.

And also -- and most crucially -- the question isn't whether embryonic stem cells should be destroyed or not. They're being destroyed, by the thousands, already -- in order to improve their odds of producing a viable embryo, fertility clinics routinely create more embryos than they need, and the excess embryos are frozen until they're no longer viable, at which point they're discarded. Stem cell research simply means that, instaed of going to a dumpster, those embryos are used to prolong, extend, and improve the quality of people's lives. Now: If you believe that creating and then discarding a four-cell blastocyst is morally wrong and equivalent to murder, that's fine. But in order to live according to that morality, you'll need to shut down every fertility clinic in existence. Good luck with that.

comment #45

MattyC says ...

TKC:

word.

comment #46

SaveFarris says ...

tkc, you should have kept reading. Check Section 6(5):

(5)"Human embryonic stem cell research," also referred to as "early stem cell research," means any scientific or medical research involving human stem cells derived from in vitro fertilization blastocysts or from somatic cell nuclear transfer. For purposes of this section, human embryonic stem cell research does not include stem cell clinical trials.

So the research covered by this bill includes the process that created all those cloned sheep? How is this not human cloning?

comment #47

Dixon Steele says ...

If all the people who were against Stem Cell research suddenly came down with Parkinson's, would they still be opposed to it.

Yeah, that's what I thought...

comment #48

Dixon Steele says ...

If all the people who were against Stem Cell research suddenly came down with Parkinson's, would they still be opposed to it?

Yeah, that's what I thought...

comment #49

christian says ...

i'm truly happy rush stepped in to offer his christly take on fox. next time dick cheney goes on his show, maybe folks will make some connections...

comment #50

christian says ...

"I think this Michael J. Fox ad is going to backfire. I think -- I believe it will backfire in the end because there's false information in it."

so says pillar of wisdom sean hannity. of course, you could cut and paste hannity's claim against every single item of conservative sleaze and wrongdoing with that backfiring line...

backfire in your face slopehead.

comment #51

Clark Perry says ...

I challenge everyone opposed to embryonic stem cell research to sign the following pledge. Notarize it, post it in a public place, make it a part of your living will.

Step up or shut up. It's that simple.

*************************

The Embryonic Stem Cell Pledge

I, (insert name here), do hereby pledge that I will never in my lifetime knowingly take, orally or intravenously, or otherwise ingest in any way, shape or form, any medication or therapy that has been developed either directly or indirectly from research based on the use, either partially or in whole, of frozen embryonic stem cells.

Should my physical and/or mental health ever result in a medical diagnosis requiring any treatments derived from embryonic stem cell research, I will veto any and every attempt to introduce said treatment into my system, even in the face of death.

I will hereby amend my living will to include such instructions in the event that I am rendered physically or mentally incapable of communicating my wishes to physicians.

Signed: _______________

Date: _________________

comment #52

christian says ...

brilliant!

comment #53

Dave Polands Gut says ...

If Fox is going to campaign for candidates he has to be prepared to take the heat. It's part of the territory and his "victim" status doesn't preclude him from taking it as much as the Democrats want. They always think they can trot out some victim and he/she is above criticism and reproach.

comment #54

christian says ...

not above reproach, but worthy of respect.

if a parkinson's sufferer can't speak for themselves, who should?

just like ann coulter's idiot point that somebody else should be the one to speak up for the families of 9/11 besides the families.

but again, fox has shown himself to be a fighter and there's nothing more pleasing than to see a little guy kick the ass out of a conservative jabba. rush is drowning in his own oxyshit.