comment #1

Mr. Gittes says ...

I'm really looking forward to The Good Shepherd. My be bad, but it looks very intersting. Plus, Eric Roth wrote it. Cast looks great.

comment #2

Mr. Gittes says ...

I'm really looking forward to The Good Shepherd. Might be bad, but it looks very intersting. Plus, Eric Roth wrote it. Cast looks great.

comment #3

Kristopher Tapley says ...

Stranger Than Fiction didn't die simply because you hate it, Jeffrey.

comment #4

sardine says ...

anyone looked at the NEW YORK TIMES LATELY.....TAKE A LOOK, JEFFERY.

comment #5

JamesK says ...

"It may be tempting to greet 'Marie Antoinette' with a Jacobin snarl or a self-righteous sneer, since it is after all the story of the silly teenager who embodied a corrupt, absolutist state in its terminal decadence. But where’s the fun in such indignation? And, more seriously, where is the justice? To say that this movie is historically irresponsible or politically suspect is both to state the obvious and to miss the point."

--A.O. Scott, NY Times

comment #6

actionman says ...

Little Miss Sunshine is a good movie but is SO overrated.

comment #7

NYCBusybody says ...

Litte Miss Sunshine was a fantastic, hilarious, heartfelt film until the appalling, appalling ending.

comment #8

Paul8148 says ...

LMS going to be the main threat to beat Dreamgirls at the Globes and The Departed at The SAGS, but will it be enought?

comment #9

T. S. Idiot says ...

Harold Pinter sent Sofia a fan letter about Marie A. Of course, it's based on his wife's book: http://film.guardian.co.uk/interview/interviewpages/0,,1891161,00.html.

comment #10

Cory says ...

Okay, I've got to know the answer. Why the hell is Dreamgirls being touted as the one to beat?

I've seen the trailer. It doesn't scream "The One To Beat." It doesn't even look remotely interesting. Why the love over something no one has even remotely seen?

How about some love for United 93....

comment #11

Jeremy Smith says ...

I'll quote the notorious "Butcher of Broadway", Frank Rich, from 1981:

"When Broadway history is being made, you can feel it. What you feel is a seismic emotional jolt that sends the audience, as one, right out of its wits. While such moments are uncommonly rare these days, I'm here to report that one popped up at the Imperial last night. Broadway history was made at the end of the first act of Michael Bennett's beautiful and heartbreaking new musical, 'Dreamgirls.'"

That's how good DREAMGIRLS can be. Combine that with the fact that David Geffen has been incredibly protective of the property, frustrating numerous attempts to get a film adaptation off the ground, and you've got a lot of folks expecting a whole lotta greatness.

But I'm with you on UNITED 93. It absolutely deserves more buzz than that glorified MOW, WORLD TRADE CENTER.

comment #12

Joseph says ...

Please. There was more depth in any random moment of Airport '77 than there was in the whole of United 93.

comment #13

Chris Molanphy says ...

Wrong, NYCBusyBody: the ending was the thing that elevated 'Little Miss Sunshine.' It took the satirical point of the movie to a logical, yet still astonishing, conclusion. It was Colbert/South Park-worthy genius.

But hey, we can agree to disagree, right? Oh, wait...

comment #14

Jeremy Smith says ...

If we're speaking fathoms, Joseph, then I completely agree. If not...

The "depth" of UNITED 93 was provided by the viewer - i.e., it was the event and our individual reaction to it, which Greengrass engaged and challenged with his objective, brutally unsentimental recreation. For me, it's still the most emotionally jarring film of the year as well as the most meticulously well-crafted, though I did miss Darren McGavin fretting over the flooding of the cabin.

comment #15

Joseph says ...

LOL, Jeremy. Yes, United 93 owes whatever "depth" it has to the audience's knowledge of the event (in that regard, it's closer to Tora! Tora! Tora! than any of the Airport movies); at the same time, I disagree that it's "objective" or "brutally unsentimental"--the very fact that the movie creates a fiction of what happened on the plane indicates that it's a thoroughly subjective piece.

Personally, I missed Brenda Vacarro slapping Lee Grant when she tries to open the door.

comment #16

Cory says ...

Thanks for the answer Jeremy. Sounds like some of the same "hopeful" statements that were made when Phantom of the Opera was on the way out...and we see how that turned out (although I do enjoy the film somewhat).

Still, just looking at the Dreamgirls trailer, I don't see it being in the same league as United 93, The Departed, or The Fountain (the film I'm dying to see right now.)

But, this is the Academy Awards we're talking about. They gave Return of the King the Best Picture statue three years. That tells you all you need to know....

comment #17

insidah says ...

Bobby is supposedly a good, entertaining movie...don't put it past Harvey and Bob to get this thing going. Not sure why you have such a bias against this film...come to think of it, you have biases against most films it seems.

comment #18

kmoore says ...

I have been coming to this site for the past few months. But I did not feel the need to get an account until tody. I am one of the few A-A student in the screenwriting program MA program @ my school (I will not reveal what university), and I that this site need a young A-A voice. For several weeks not just on this site I have seen people dimiss "Dreamgirls" and I feel that a great deal of the "it" has to due with the fact that this is a Black Film. Often many great "Black" films such as "Eve's Bayou" and "Boyz N the Hood" are looked over. "BNTH" as simply just another hood movie. If anyone here has seen a theatrical "Dreamgirls" YOU would know that it has a great story, great music..it's entertaining, and simply a DAMN good time. I happen to love United 93, but its clearly a director's movie. IN the hands of a less accomplished director this film would have been terrible. I have not seen "Dreamgirls" like most of U people on this blog, but I see no logical reason to dismiss a movie that has a great story, A very talented cast, and a hugely talented director who has wrote and/or directed 3 great movies in a row...

comment #19

The Winchester says ...

Little Children deserves more credit than anyone's giving it credit for. I thought it was a top notch production all across the board. And yet, Winslet is the only one people are talking about? Ridiculous.

And I think a lot of the Dreamgirls backlash has to do with the fact that it's been hyped up as much as Flags of our Fathers as the movie that's gonna win the Best Picture. Again, no one has seen anything, but that's not stopping anyone from saying it won.

When did the Academy Awards become this rote and predictable? They're still five months away. How about we focus on a film's merit over whether or not it will win an award everyone will forget about in two years?

comment #20

Larry says ...

Dreamgirls might be fun, but I'm not expecting much. The show was a cliched plot with a few passable songs. Frank Rich notwithstanding, I can't imagine anyone being excited about hearing yet again the dreary "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going."

What made the Broadway show work was the great staging by Michael Bennett. There's no reason to expect it to translate well to film, certainly not from Bill Condon, who's done good work, but nothing that would prepare him for this.

comment #21

David Ehrlich says ...

Amen to the Winchester's Little Children comment. Makes all the other trumped up contenders bow before it. The sort of film that was never destined for Oscar success, but rather true longevity in the cultural discourse. But while we're moaning about Oscars... in a field as odd as this, it's ALMOST feasible that something as deservedly beloved and timely as Pan's Labyrinth could eke its way into the bigger races...ALMOST.

comment #22

kmoore says ...

Chicago: Best Writing, Screenplay Based on Material Previously Produced or Published
Bill Condon...so I think he may be a bit qualified to handled this sort of material...I haven't seen Little children yet, but i do luv Kate Wislet...I will be checking LC and Departed out on tomorrow...and Last King of Scotland on Saturday...

comment #23

The Winchester says ...

A Beautiful Mind: Best Writing, Screenplay Based on Material Previously Produced or Published Akiva Goldsman... who brought us such gems as Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, and Deep Blue Sea.

And Bill Condon didn't win for Chicago.

And he also directed Candyman: Farewell to the Flesh.

Point is: It's still anyone's game.

comment #24

Doug says ...

I've got about eight contenders to see, but so far "United 93" is the best film of the year.

comment #25

NYCBusybody says ...

kmoore, I'm happy to hear that MA programs at major universities now include Alcoholics Anonymous members.

Welcome to the site.

comment #26

sardine says ...

read stephanie zacharek's STUNNING review of Marie Antoinette. Salon.com

comment #27

f.bush says ...

Being tagged as a "front runner" at this stage of the game when nobody has seen the picture might as well be the kiss of death. Remember "The Aviator" in 04 and "Munich" last year.

comment #28

bipedalist says ...

Does it have to be Dreamgirls vs. United 93? Why not both? Why not all? It's still early to be taking sides. Dreamgirls has yet to be tested with critics and audiences. It has some stumbling blocks but none of them have to do with the film or the story - AMPAS traditionally has never awarded "black movies." They award white saving black but not white directing black (Color Purple). They are primarily straight, white old men who like manly films unless they're films that take a man's eye view of another problems, like Terms of Endearment for instance. It's a gross generalization, I realize, but it's funny to me that no one is being cautious where DG is concerned. They're just balls out saying it's a winner. Early buzz indicates it IS a winner - those who've seen it have said it holds up as the best film of the season (or so I've heard). But you know, if I had a dime for every time I heard THAT phrase. What will ultimately kill DG if it does die? Hype and expectations. It's always better to go in low and be pleasantly surprised than to be high and be let down. So there you have it, my lame-ass two cents.

comment #29

bipedalist says ...

Does it have to be Dreamgirls vs. United 93? Why not both? Why not all? It's still early to be taking sides. Dreamgirls has yet to be tested with critics and audiences. It has some stumbling blocks but none of them have to do with the film or the story - AMPAS traditionally has never awarded "black movies." They award white saving black but not white directing black (Color Purple). They are primarily straight, white old men who like manly films unless they're films that take a man's eye view of another problems, like Terms of Endearment for instance. It's a gross generalization, I realize, but it's funny to me that no one is being cautious where DG is concerned. They're just balls out saying it's a winner. Early buzz indicates it IS a winner - those who've seen it have said it holds up as the best film of the season (or so I've heard). But you know, if I had a dime for every time I heard THAT phrase. What will ultimately kill DG if it does die? Hype and expectations. It's always better to go in low and be pleasantly surprised than to be high and be let down. So there you have it, my lame-ass two cents.

comment #30

L.B. says ...

Good call, NYCBB. That would explain the grammar. Well, not really, but if he's freshly sober maybe it would explain why a writing student with such a valuable presence can't string a few simple, correctly spelled words together.

I'm going to be one of those sticks in the mud who thinks it's silly to call DREAMGIRLS a front runner without anyone having seen it. Up to a week ago it was FLAGS, FLAGS, FLAGS and now people have actually seen it and suddenly that cools off. So, a lot of this feels like, "No, seriously, this is the movie no one's seen that really will be the best picture!" Who knows? I'm hoping for the best. For myself, the best films I've seen this year are U93 and DEPARTED. And I'd lean towards giving DEPARTED the award because this is a lousy year and I'm always happy to see a nice genre movie take it over some pre-package Oscar-bait. But what do I know? The Oscars are to enjoying movies as brightly colored balloons are to deer hunting.

comment #31

NYCBusybody says ...

While I generally detest awards-races, Top Ten lists, and the like (yeah, good conversation pieces, I suppose), I'd have to say I haven't really enjoyed this year in movies. Little Miss Sunshine (despite the ludicrous ending), The Departed (despite Nicholson's overbaked performance), and U93 have been my favorites thus far. For

I'm looking forward to Borat and Marie Antoinette most of all.

comment #32

kammy says ...

Yes, Frank Rich did give the Broadway version of “Dreamgirls” a rave review, and I myself enjoyed the show quite a bit too!

But the movie is no shoo-in for the Best Picture award.

Let’s consider the last three film adaptions of Broadway musicals:

The stage version of “The Producers” won 12 Tony awards – a record in the Broadway history. How many awards (Golden Globes, BAFTA, AMPAS, etc) did the film win? None!

“The Phantom of the Opera” is the longest running show on Broadway; but the movie did a poor business, earning a domestic gross of only some $51 million (production budget: $70 million). Did it earn any great reviews? Mr. Poland was the only critic who considered the film version a serious Oscar contender!

“Rent” won a Pulitzer Prize, but the movie was a financial and critical failure.

comment #33

kmoore says ...

Because this is a lame ass blog and none of u people really matter to me, I did not check my spelling or grammar. As I said b4, "black movies" usually get no respect. Part of he problem is that most people expect crappy movies from black people because most of the recent BLACK movies have been horrible. That aside, when examing the the actors and the talent behind the camera, I am not surprise that DG movie is getting so much buzz. Plus the clips shown @ Cannes have critics glowing all of the world. This weekend I will see several movies, so hopefully Deaparted is a god that everyone says it is. Also I know several people who walked out of Little Miss Sunshine, but I will have to see for myself what all the fuss is about.

comment #34

RoyBatty says ...

Very happy I gave up on the Academy years ago and can sit out this sort of pointless speculation.

But I will make this observation: if a tarted up crime piffle like THE DEPARTED can be talked up for awards, don't be too surprised if an equally tarted up comedy piffle like LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE captures enough Academy members' hearts to get nominations too. When you consider the whole Mark Whalberg/rat-on-railing ending, it too ends on a appalling note.

comment #35

RoyBatty says ...

"Because this is a lame ass blog and none of u people really matter to me..."

Then what does that say about the fact you've been "coming to this site for the past few months" and your need to post your comments for us to read? Au contraire, my arrogant friend, it would seem our opinion on your thoughts seem to matter a great deal if you went through the trouble of signing up for the TypeKey account to share them with all of us "nothings."

comment #36

christian says ...

kmoore, welcome aboard but your accusation that us honkies (not that you'd know) have a problem with "black film" is ludicrous. this site has pimped HOTEL RWANDA and HUSTLE & FLOW along with any number of movies by or about African Americans. would you consider LAST KING OF SCOTLAND a "black" film?

DREAMGIRLS is a broadway musical, not shakespeare. it's a limp story strung together with high wattage tunage but that don't make it great -- or a testament to race. i'm dying to see it solely for eddie murphy who i've been saying since the firt time i saw him on SNL that he would be a great movie actor (when he's not doing awful films like DR DOOLITTLE or PLUTO NASH gag) and he's almost there.

of course, i thought murphy was robbed of an oscar nom for THE NUTTY PROFESSOR, a limp film except for his awe-inspiring set of character performances ala peter sellers.

and while i loved LMS for its sheer intelligence and alan arkin (along with that amazing little girl) i found scenes would go on seconds too long and undermined its indie cred with broad hollywood strokes (the stealing of grandpa was straight outta bad sitcom land). but i was still moved by many moments.

so there.

comment #37

Argen says ...

It also helps if what you post makes sense. You claim that BOYZ N THE HOOD was dismissed as just another hood movie and yet it was nominated for best original screenplay and best director (making John Singleton one of very few directors who recieved that nomination for his first movie). EVE'S BAYOU you can make a case for. On the other hand, small indie films very rarely crack the nominations unless they have some star power behind them or, like sex, lies, and videotape, were part of some cultural note. And a statement like "most people expect crappy movies from black people because most of the recent BLACK movies have been horrible" is just immature and badly considered on the face of it.

Lastly, for someone who enters the fray laying out their prestigious writing pedigree as an introduction, the way you express your opinions is important. In fact, you made it more important with your introduction because we are lead to believe that you really know something about writing. From the evidence you presented it's clear you don't have a grasp on writing and a questionable knowledge of film and film history.

comment #38

kmoore says ...

TO RoyBatty: The fact these two or three actually to note of the way I type on a blog is stupid. This is a blog, not a classroom. IMO, typos on a blog should not matter, but I guess people in really care about their "job". I think the site is interesting and I love viewing criticism from ordinary people and critics, just to see the variety of views and opinions displayed in relation to what I think.

PS: People should stop being so mean to Will Smith...If Ben Affleck can with an Oscar then why can't Will. Hell, why can't my grandmother...

comment #39

christian says ...

and who woulda thunk that stephanie z. at salon would MA? it's the perfect film for post-meta-proto-female film critics who get to pretend eye shopping is the same thing as a good movie.

sz has a bad case of kaelitis which means -- like most of kael's spawn -- that they love to phrase reviews with "...one of the reasons WE love movies with shallow characters is to indulge in OUR fantasies of being shallow. WE go to movies to secretly pretend WE'RE different than WE are..."

comment #40

L.B. says ...

"If Ben Affleck can with an Oscar then why can't Will."

I guess it's time Will Smith got a bunch of high powered talent to ghostwrite a lameass original script for him. Then they'd be even.

Just a tip, kmoore. The problem with this sentence: "The fact these two or three actually to note of the way I type on a blog is stupid" has nothing to do with typos.

comment #41

christian says ...

kmoore, ben affleck won an oscar for writing, not acting. will smith has been nominated for best actor.

and to shrug off unreadable grammar as "just a blog" doesn't cut it from someone claiming to to be a writer. i'm just saying.

comment #42

christian says ...

i thought i should at least go read sz's review of MA after i castigate her royal WE style, but then i come to the third paragraph:

"Marie Antoinette is Coppola's silk-embroidered fantasy sampler of the inner life of a queen WE can never really know: It's a humanist comedy-drama decked out not in sackcloth but in ribbons -- instead of flattering OUR ideas of OUR own virtuousness, it asks OUR sympathy for this doomed queen even as WE can't help envying her privilege."

thanks for letting US know how WE feel, sz...

comment #43

kmoore says ...

Get a life people. When I say "dismiss" I am reffering to the general public's reception...the same goes for "DO The Right Thing". I can remember reading things abour riots and how the film was Propaganda. And with "H&F" I saw on many blogs such as "AICN", while Harry was excited abotthe movies, the people who would post replies were downing the flim for its subject b4 even seeing the film.

comment #44

nola says ...

Re: Dreamgirls, Beyonce makes me nervous, did you see Fighting Temptations?

Kmoore, you do know that other than the cast, no one above the line is black right? Director, producers, writer, casting director etc.

Looking forward to seeing Eddie Murphy.

comment #45

L.B. says ...

You might be mixing up some things under one general heading here. BOYZ was far from dismissed by the general public. It was very well revieved and did a respectable amount of box office. It's not for nothing it landed Singleton production deals. Whether he's used them to their best advantage is a whole other argument, but it doesn't negate the fact that BOYZ is still considered his best film and definitely one of the best films of that year. The only negative press I remember at the time was reports of shootings at a theater where it was showing. Those reports were blown out of proportion, but our crappy news industry always obeys the "bleeds/leads" maxim.

DO THE RIGHT THING was a controversial film. It was made to be controversial and at the time it wasn't even as controversial as the things Lee would say in the press. At the same time, it wasn't dismissed either. Yeah, you're always going to find people who say, "oh that's just blank-blankety-blank" and go no further with a film. But I remember it doing fairly well when it came out (I lived in New York at the time, so it's not really a fair sampling). But it was taken very seriously as a film and as a work of art. And a lot of it is propagandistic. That's not taking anything away from it. But pulling out a couple of thoughts from here and there (no one took the scattered fears of "riots" seriously then) doesn't equate a film being dismissed. It was given the short-shrift by the Academy and deserved better. To correct Argen, it was given exactly the traetment SEX, LIES, AND VIDEOTAPE was given- the "yeah, we know you exist, but we're not that thrilled about it" writing nomination. Actually, come to think of it, it got one more with the Aiello nomination. But you can always count on the Academy to be stodgy and slow to wake up to anything current. (It's not remarkable that something as dusty as the JFK conspiracy was considered too edgy by the Academy.)

As for HUSTLE & FLOW (yes, directed by a white guy before someone things they're onto something), don't mistake people having issues with making a pimp your main character as dismissing a film for being "just another hood film". On the contrary, the film was far from dismissed by the general public (and just for your own sanity it's good to keep in mind that the AICN Talkbakers do not represent the general public in any fashion) or the industry. Terrence Howard is one of the busiest actors in the business today (can you say IRON MAN?) based largely on that film. It did some decent business and is doing moreso on video, where most people were likely to catch up with it anyway, it being a small film. I heard some talk about "glorifying" pimps and its supposed sexism, but you get political responses to movies that aren't asking for it all the time. I myself never saw it as a glorification of that life. It seemed to me the point was even a man on the lowest rung of society can have a dream and his achievement of that dream is important. Some people have a hard time getting around the sexual politics of it. But that's what makes the world go round- arguing over every last thing.

None of this is to say that films made by and starring African Americans don't always get a fair hearing. There's certainly evidence of that. But at the same time, everything can't be lumped together so neatly. And when you use examples that are actually the exceptions in recent history it shows a certain lack of understanding about how things have played out, how they're changing, and how they can be improved.

comment #46

christian says ...

for the record, beyonce has not a scintilla of thespic talent. watch GOLDMEMBER (at your own peril) for the proof.

comment #47

L.B. says ...

If I had to watch GOLDMEMBER again I'd have to stab out my eyeballs like I promised myself when I saw it the first time.

comment #48

NYCBusybody says ...

Very well said, L.B. I kept reading it and couldn't seriously argue with a thing you said.

However:

"None of this is to say that films made by and starring African Americans don't always get a fair hearing. There's certainly evidence of that.

I'd be interested to know what evidence you're talking about (not claiming you're wrong, just not sure exactly which instances you're referring to), and also, a fair hearing from whom? Studio execs.? Audiences?

comment #49

kmoore says ...

L.B. Thank you for your insight. I agree with most of what u said. I do feel that when a largely African American project come along, it has to "prove itself". Not amany A-A projects get this much buzz, so I am excited and I hope that it's a good movie.

I hope to write movie that challenge and movie audiencee, esp. black audience. When I say "crappy movies" I feel that several A-A films as a late are nothing special and the only people great god A-A movies for white directors. I went to an all Black college (the college as Spike Lee) and now I go to a Majority white Un. so I see and hear diefferent views and opinions on films and filmmaking.

I wrote a paper recently, about how black audience do not go to Blk films that challenge the mind. Based on box office most African Americans want to see Medea and Big Momma's House, and that is very sad. Hustle and Flow should have made much more money than it did. When I went to see "Hotel Rwanda" the audience was majority white and it was very obvious.

What makes me upset is that each year major Black publications complain that Black actors and directors do not get recogized by the Academy, but what "we" fail to realize that if we do not support intelligent Black films that do get recognized then studios will not make them. I'm sure many people read able to the struggle to get funding for Hustle & Flow.

Theer are not many black directors or writers and I think that is a shame. Hopefully someday soon I will be able to bring a new perspective or voice to Black Cinema. Which is the reason why I study great films, but I also watch the one's that are not so great but popular to examine what I can do to make an impact both financialy and critically.

As far as Beyonce, which I knew would come up, I think a Great director can work wonders on anyone. Look what Condon did for Brendan Fraser, who is no DeNiro. Hell he not even a Ben Affleck...I don't think Halle Berry is all that talented, but she has a Oscar because she scored a great role brought out by a great director. While I wouldn't say Forster is great but he is definitely good. With the right script, the right director, and the right editing anything can happen.

We must remeber the Academy "usually" (Al Pacino SofaW, an exception, IMO...That was for his body of work) awards the best performance of that year, so if Beyonce pulls out a great performance this year, than more power to her. I hope she is recognized as well. But like most people, I am really excited about seeing Eddie Murphy finally get some recognition. It's about time.

comment #50

NYCBusybody says ...

"I hope to write movie that challenge and movie audiencee, esp. black audience."

"I feel that several A-A films as a late are nothing special and the only people great god A-A movies for white directors"

Dude, the occassional typo or hurried grammatical error is one thing, but this is bad. It's almost like an Onion joke. If it hampers the reader's basic understanding of what you're trying to say, it's not enough to just say "lighten up, it's just a blog".

I agree with your point that the majority of black audiences only go to entertaining movies and not deeply thought-provoking ones, but that's true of pretty much every demographic audience the entire world over.

comment #51

L.B. says ...

I'm thinking I might have been able to word that sentence a bit better, but some of it is shaped by my experience in the trenches getting productions set up. And a lot of it is based on seeing filmmakers and a lot of actors who have great things to say with the art of film get passed over time and again- or undercut in the budget side- in order to finance films that have a particular bent to them. One of the most difficult films to get financed anymore is a film with an African American cast that doesn't fall into the crime, religio-inspirational, or starring Ice Cube genres.

But having said that, and read some of the bits in kmoore's last post, some of that may just be the general dumbification of the art. Audiences do turn more toward the easy to digest and sensational, which makes it hard for anyone not peddling those wares to get their film made, regardless of race. I've been stuck in that boat, too. Case in point: We tried to set up a picture once and had an actor attached who had done stellar work in a TV series for six years. It wasn't a huge show, but it held its own and seemed like a great launching pad for actors since the vast majority of the cast was amazing. Everybody we took it to wanted "a name", "something marketable". Understood. You need to see how you can sell a movie if you're putting the money down. We went to bat time and time again for this actor, pointing out his stellar work, almost going so far as to pull newspaper clippings of his reviews out. No go. Couldn't get it made. Then to see if we could move forward at all we brought up another actor similar credentials, though frankly not anywhere close to the talent we had attached. That they were interested in. And the only major differences between the two were their race and their level of talent. But as more than two people (who will remain nameless) said, "That would open up the market for the film."

So that kind of stuff happens all the time. Which is not to say that a Halle Berry or an Eddie Murphy or a Sam Jackson can't get doors open. But on the whole it's remarkably more difficult for minority actors- and not a whole lot easier for writers, producers, and directors- to move up through the ranks and catch the same breaks as their white counterparts.

Once you reach the audience, though, it's the Thunderdome. And chances are you're going to be chasing the back of something a lot dumber and more accessible than what you have. That's not all the time true, but it's true enough. The #1 movie of the year is rarely the one with the smartest story. It would be great if audiences sought out higher quality films on the whole. But it doesn't mean we should shrink from getting smarter films out there and push and push and push for a more equitable atmosphere.

comment #52

NYCBusybody says ...

But what "doors" aren't open to Halle Berry or Denzel Washington or Will Smith or Sam Jackson, that ARE open to Sandra Bullock or Matthew McConnaughey? Especially keeping in mind that only 13% of the U.S. population is black? It's one thing if institutionally, Hollywood execs and gatekeepers racistly deny blacks roles and jobs because they're black. But is there evidence of this, actual evidence?

If anything, I think Hispanics are under-represented in the media, not blacks.

comment #53

nola says ...

Well Sam, Halle, and Denzel are in a rarified position and Will isn't even seen as black (seriously) so he is def. in his own league.

NYC you are asking two different things. First let me say I do agree with you that Hispanics are underpresent in the media esp. in film. Re: jobs behind the camera, is Hollyood racist? Yes, no doubt about it from execs to writers/producers/directors it's a joke, esp.for black women. Things are better in television.

Re: roles, the problem it's a catch 22. There are talented actors but the town would rather go with a rapper or singer to help put asses in the seats. Most young rappers are not trying to act full time. I look at someone like Anthony Mackie and wonder what will happen to him? There are a bunch of less talented white guys getting roles left and right and all the hype. The Anthony Mackies (meaning actors who want to act, not design clothes etc.) will have a tough time unless they decided to do Madea Family Reunion II. When we try to set up a project the studio will say there are only two maybe three black actors "who have value." Well how can they grow in value if we never cast them. ugh. Sometimes I wonder why I stay in this business.

Denzel would not become Denzel if he was just starting out today. They are just not making those kinds of movies or careers anymore. I can't even imagine trying to pitch a Soldier's Story to a studio today.

comment #54

OddDuck says ...

hey kmoore, skirting the conventions of formal writing on a blog message thread is one thing, but dude, your grammar is pretty bad. is english even your first language?

but while your argument construction sucks, i think your head's probably in the right place. white and hispanic america just don't have that much interest in anything black except for a few narrowly defined cultural trends.

not that this is directly related, but i'm curious if anyone here watches the wire on hbo. it was recently greenlit for a fifth season despite abysmal ratings throughout its run. it's got a large case, almost entirely black (although i think most of the writers are white). anyway, it's easily one of the funniest, deepest, darkest and most meanigful works of television in the past two decades, and fucking nobody watches it! the most likely reason -- it's predominately black cast and subject matter.

comment #55

le corbeau says ...

Frankly, having seen The Queen today, I know which movie I suspect resonates the most with wealthy, insular 70-year-old Beverly Hillsers. And it ain't The Departed, or Dreamgirls.

Although it kind of piffles out to an ending that's hardly an ending. Still, if Chocolat could get nominated, so can this. And beyond that, who knows?

comment #56

L.B. says ...

nola pretty much took a bunch of the main points. No doors are closed to stars, so your question holds no value. The trouble is giving actors- and writers and directors- the opportunities to become stars or players in any real sense.

I agree with you OddDuck that THE WIRE is the best thing on TV. A major credit to HBO for keeping it going despite low ratings. And I think it's also a victim of being incredibly smart, unwilling to play dumb, and stays pretty non-sensational. It expects the best from its audience. And I love that its cast demographics reflect the demographics of Baltimore (where it's set). It's realistic and it's put a lot of great actors of every color out in the open. Not to mention they hire Clark Johnson as a director and I've loved him since HOMICIDE (the best thing on TV when it was on TV). True, the show's main writers- David Simon and Edward Burns- are white, but they're also former Baltimore City detectives and their experience is reflected in the verity of the show.

comment #57

Thrudvangar says ...

I hope Dreamgirls beats out The Departed for Best Picture. I was so thrilled when Chicago won the Oscar over The Pianist. You get song AND dance in the same movie. What could be better? No one watches the Tony's, so when a beautiful, beautiful musical wins big then Broadway finally gets some recognition. I was heartbroken when Moulin Rouge lost out to A Beautiful Mind.

comment #58

Patrick says ...

Jeffrey, saying that 'The Departed' is carrying
the torch for 'The French Connection' is really
embarrassing! It's easily Scorsese's least
worth effort since 'Boxcar Bertha'

Scorsese has said that 'The Departed' has a
"sense of despair" Well, the only despair going
on in that theater Tuesday afternoon, was the
pain of having to sit there and watch a legend
fall into self-parody. That will be the last
Scorsese film I'll be seeing in a LONG TIME.

'World Trade Center' is alive and well!

comment #59

NYCBusybody says ...

Man, all I can say is, with the relatively blah nature of the possible Best Picture contenders at this point, and the likelihood of lots of British nominees (especially old ones), and topped off by Ellen DeGeneres hosting (too gay and offputting for a lot of Red Staters, too daytime-TVish for me, even though I find her amusing)...can anyone say lowest-rated Oscars ever, by far?

comment #60

Dan Revill says ...

If this kmoore is a screenwriting student with his obvious love of grammar and spelling, then I am Mary, Queen of Scots.
Then again, the mere fact he had to mention that he/she's "one of the few A-A student in the screenwriting program MA program @ [his/her] school (...will not reveal what university), and [he/she] [I'm gonna take a stab and say, 'decided'] that this site need a young A-A voice," reeks of enough young screenwriter pretentiousness that it might just be true.
Anyhow, this honky thinks that kmoore is one of your alter egos, so come on, the jig is up.

comment #61

NYCBusybody says ...

Sorry, L.B., I read your statement wrong - for some reason, I read it as "Berry, Murphy, Jackson can't get doors open", without realizing the context of "which isn't to say they can't".

I must be a screenwriter too.

comment #62

zoey says ...

LB... right on target with HOMOCIDE ...the best cop drama on tv ever. And why Andre Braugher doesn't have projects lined up is beyond me.

WIRE has the same feel. The teenage actors on the show this season add a poignancy that I thought was missing in the earlier seasons. (The classroom scenes are also dead-on. Brought back my good ole substitute teacher days!)

comment #63

Patrick says ...

Homocide not winning any Best Drama Emmy's is
more of a disgrace than 'Rocky' winning the Oscar
in '76.

comment #64

kmoore says ...

From now on, I will make sure I proofread and edit my blog posts to please the anal bitches on this site.

Also, I am happy that we were able to discuss and examine issues relating to Black Cinema. There were some very good points made, especially by L.B.

I look forward to arguing with all of you movie fanatic assholes in the future...Thanx for the warm welcome and introduction.

comment #65

L.B. says ...

"Andre Braugher doesn't have projects lined up is beyond me"

Exactly. It drives me nuts. Love, love, love the man and he should be doing so much more. You could cast a bunch of movies just out of that cast alone and be happy.

And I think some of my love for THE WIRE is that it serves as a HOMICIDE fix in a way.

Patrick, you're dead on about the HOMICIDE/ROCKY post. (I'd have to argue with you about the WTC/DEPARTED post, but I'll try to keep things positive.)

Hang in there, kmoore. Part of debate is learning things and finding ways to improve your arguments. It's not all just an "I have spoken" situation. But the ability to clearly communicate your point (even if it isn't perfect grammar) and to back up your points is critical. It'll also serve you well in the real world. Sometimes all you have is your words.

comment #66

L.B. says ...

And NYCBB- No harm, no foul. It happens all the time. It served to extend the topic a bit further and I think it's an importnat topic to keep alive. On blogs and in the industry at large.

comment #67

NYCBusybody says ...

kmoore, if your posts look more like that last one than your preceding ones, you're a-ok in my book.

comment #68

donnyboy says ...

Yeah what about Yaphet Kotto?
You want black?
He's BLACK!
And a badass.

comment #69

donnyboy says ...

NOTHING BUT A MAN
is a great film with a young Yaphet in it.

comment #70

Patrick says ...

Being anal? I'm not. I thought 'Homocide' was
pretty funny. You 'Departed' fans shouldn't
have had any negative feelings towards it. Lord
knows how many anti-gay remarks were made in that
piece of shit. Oh, please don't give me 'those
characters would talk like that' or 'Damon's
character is really gay' crap. It was over the
line and will feed into the anti-gay mindset of
most people who'll see the movie. Pretty cheap on
Scorsese's part, but it'll add money to his
(hopeful) retirement fund.