comment #1

quizkid82 says ...

I half-expected Lane to also say he thinks "Saturday Night Live" isn't as funny as it used to be.

Doesn't some uptight critic write this same piece every year? And didn't Lane remember that Paul Greengrass already made "Mission: Impossible III"? It was called "The Bourne Supremacy" when he did it.

comment #2

Larry says ...

I essentially agree with Lane. I think there are still good movies out there, but great dialogue is a lot rarer than it used to be.

comment #3

D.Z. says ...

I fell asleep through "All About Eve" when it was playing at The New Beverly. The characters just go through the motions, so I didn't see the appeal. (Or the point, for that matter.) But then I'm not really into "The Great Gatsby", either. I don't find the magic in people who are isolated from the real world discussing inane subjects.

comment #4

Pinko Punko says ...

All About Eve is a masterpiece. The characters do not go through the motions. Many of them are actors playing actors- Bette Davis is amazing, her relationship with Merrill's character is real in the dialog alone, even thought it happened to also be real off-camera. It is one of my favorite films and gets better with each viewing.

comment #5

Argen says ...

Try not to take D.Z. seriously, Pinko. There's nothing to be gained from it.

comment #6

thatrader says ...

Lane asks how M:I-3 would've turned out if Paul Greengrass had directed it.

He must not have seen a little movie called the Bourne Supremacy which included some of the most incoherent editing of the year.

And "Hidden" a.k.a. Cache was awful.

Any director who makes his audience sit through a 3 minute static shot, followed by him rewinding and making us watch it again is just masturbating on the screen for us all.

And don't get me started on that ridiculous, "Gee.. Guess who really sent those tapes" twist.

A lot of foreign stuff is more overrated than anything Jeff gives his stamp of approval to.

comment #7

MAGGA says ...

So his response when people watch a film and ask "what happened?" was to start talking about the Oscars? The perspective! Anyway, there is no reason to think that movies like these will not come back, wee just need to make it worth their while to make them.

comment #8

p.Vice says ...

The problem with that cocksucker Lane is, being a pundit instead of a real critic, he too easily allows himself to be a victim of blind nostalgia. I've been hearing friends, critics, etc. complaining that "they don't write dialogue like All About Eve anymore" for about twenty years... if he's only getting around to figuring this out, those assholes at The New Yorker might want to think about dusting the lint off their moth-eaten tweeds and getting the fuck out into the real world once in a while.

Next thing you know he'll be writing a think-piece on how digital technology is slowly ruining filmmaking!!!!

comment #9

adorian says ...

Is the remake of "The Women" really going to happen? That will have four great roles for women and memorable dialog, although I think the original is good enough as is and doesn't need to be remade.

The Meryl Streep movie about Martha Mitchell should have great roles for women.

For that matter, don't "Dreamgirls" and "Devil Wears Prada" have great roles for women?---or do they not count because they have only three great roles, not four?

comment #10

Movie fan09 says ...

I half-expected Lane to also say he thinks "Saturday Night Live" isn't as funny as it used to be.

it isn't.
have you seen SNL lately?
it's horrible.
I saw a rerun where the skit was just about the couple fighting.
it was incredibly boring and arkward.
but the new york audience seemed to love it.
(thank god for laugh tracks)
the reason is b/c you have peformers no longer coming from Second City and the Groundlings.
they either honed their craft in their own improv troupes or from ucb(upright citizens brigade) which is notoriously know for their annoying ironic humor.

comment #11

Chris D. says ...

Just saw a clip from Hollywoodland. Which reminded me that this film had great dialogue.

comment #12

The Movie Man says ...

People, the style has changed. Many filmmakers are more interested in dialogue that sounds more natural, closer to "real", and that obviously leaves less room for witty, quotable dialogue. I wish there was a little more elegance and wit in our mainstream films today, especially our romantic comedies (we really need an Ernst Lubitsch now more than ever), but let's acknowledge that its not just that the filmmakers don't care, and that the audiences are uncultured bafoons (or insert your tired, tedious complaint of choice here), but that things also change. Also keep in mind, even in movies' various Golden Ages (1930s, 1970s) there's always a bunch of kill joy crones bemoaning the state of the modern film. As they say the more things change, the more they stay the same.

comment #13

Rich S. says ...

To paraphrase some quotable dialogue, "The Movie Man is right about Howard Johnson being right." For the same reason we have fewer "movie stars" (see the discussion about Daniel Craig v. Steve McQueen), we have less "movie star dialogue." All About Eve is, of course, one of the greatest movie star dialogue movies ever made.

The more realistic we demand acting and movies to be, the less quotable the dialogue will be. Nobody talks like the characters do in All About Eve (or Casablanca, or The Wizard of Oz, or Streetcar Named Desire), but that's partly the point. Tarantino understands this (cue D.Z.) and that's why his movies are quoted endlessly.

Now, that doesn't explain the lack of strong female roles, but as numerous posters have pointed out above, I think that objection may be a little overblown.

comment #14

The Movie Man says ...

Rich-Thanks, I was about to bring up Tarantino, but sort of forgot about it. He pared the dialogue down with Kill Bill, but his other three features have some of the best, most purely enjoyable conversation in the last twenty years. I also think the Coens, when they're really on, write marvelous, only in the movies dialogue.

I don't think its a coincidence that the two writers I'm most easily able to name seem to work largely in the crime genre. That's because, especially in a time where Oscar seems more important than anything else, that dramas aren't allowed to be playful anymore, eloquent, they all have to be heavy handed and patting themselves on the back for their "importance." Guys in other genres, such as crime, still feel free to play.

comment #15

sardine says ...

all about eve is a lot of fun. Anne Baster, though is NOT VERY GOOD.

comment #16

adorian says ...

Not to dwell on the past, but....

I once attended a revival house double bill of "The Women" and "All About Eve" in San Francisco, and the audience was amazing. They said all the big famous lines in unison with the actors. An incredible experience. They would all say the line and then applaud !

Of course, this was back in the 1970s. Now it's cell phone, conversations, and crying babies.

comment #17

dixiedugan says ...

Oh for pete's sake, they aren't really looking to remake The Women again are they? There was an awful remake back in '56 and that should have been the end.

File that in the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fuck-with-it folder.

comment #18

christian says ...

anne baxter is quite awful in AAE and stifles the reality of her being presented as a great actress.

comment #19

Craig Kennedy says ...

Wow I hated Hidden and I didn't think I'd have to hear it talked about anymore.

These end of year complaints about the awful state of movies always piss me off. The only bad year for movies is the year they don't make movies at all. Not every year has a preponderance of mainstream films that are going to endure through the ages, but there are always smaller films if you look hard enough.

Looking back at the "golden years" you have history filtering out a lot of the garbage and I think that exaggerates the overall quality of the films being made. We mainly only remember the good ones.

I don't think any one movie I've seen this year has totally blown me away...close but not quite...but I've seen a lot of movies I really loved. Sarris can suck it.

As for Anne Baxter: how about the idea that she's not horrible, but she plays a character who isn't really a good actress and since she's acting all the time on stage and off, it just seems like Baxter is bad? All the other characters perceive her as good, but they all have ulterior motives for wanting to think that. Just thinking out loud about a movie I love...most likely full of crap.

Movie Man and Rich S are right also. In case there's some kind of vote on the subject, I've cast mine.

comment #20

The Movie Man says ...

I know I'm really opening myself up by saying this but I put the CACHE DVD on one night, watched about ten minutes, thought, "oh its one of THESE" and put something else in. I'm not pretending to know the movie, but life is too short for elitist European Art movies. My apologies if I've drawn a wrong conclusion.

"Looking back at the "golden years" you have history filtering out a lot of the garbage and I think that exaggerates the overall quality of the films being made. We mainly only remember the good ones."

EXACTLY.

And to hell with all the old fuddy duddies that are always bitching about the state of cinema, as I said early, their tired rants are worse than watching the majority of bad movies.

Nothing has really stirred me this year either, though I really liked The Departed, though I feel its overrated, and I also nearly loved, Neil Young:Heart of Gold, The Descent and The Prestige and thought Brick and The Proposition were flawed nice tries. But I've missed some heavies that I probably won't get to catch until DVD.

comment #21

Craig Kennedy says ...

This is the last time I'm going to say this because I'm clearly the only one and I'm starting to feel more than a little retarded, but I loved The Notorious Bettie Page and I'm dismayed it has been totally forgotten. Going in I had no real opinion about Gretchen Mol one way or the other and I thought she was fabulous.

I just posted a comment in the Children of Men thread and I'm reminded that while no single film rocked my world, CoM has several scenes that certainly did.

comment #22

The Movie Man says ...

Haven't seen Children of Men, but I have seen The Notorious Bettie Page. Personally I thought the film was a pretty standard biopic, but Gretchen Mol was wonderful and very sexy.

comment #23

Craig Kennedy says ...

See I thought it was elevated from a standard biopic (over something like Walk the Line) because it wasn't really about Bettie Page at all in the end. In fact it doesn't reveal a lot about her. The film is really about us as an audience and society. Bettie was presented as sort of a force of nature and the interesting thing is how different people react to her.

Wow, that was massively pretentious and I'm sure I convinced a number of people to remove the film from their Netflix queue.

comment #24

The Movie Man says ...

I think your take on Bettie Page is valid, but the exploration of Page's society's reaction to her was almost as slim as the exploration of Page herself, and it really didn't go much deeper than the standard prigs in the 1950s material that you see in a lot of movies. I know very little about Bettie Page, but I knew everything that The Notorious Bettie Page portrayed. That said, I don't think its a bad film, but I do think its forgettable and, even at 85 minutes, a little sluggish. Again, excluding Mol, who really gives one of the sexiest performances I've seen in a long time, I can't believe this is the same stick in the mud from Rounders.

comment #25

Craig Kennedy says ...

I freely admit I may just be smitten by Mol.

comment #26

sardine says ...

lane is the worst critic in america today.

gretchen moll was lovely in bettie page.

comment #27

Argen says ...

"lane is the worst critic in america today."

While Peter Travers, Scott Holleran, Cole Smithey, and Richard Roeper still breathe?

Blasphemy.

comment #28

christian says ...

just curious sardine, did anybody else go see MARIE ANTOINETTE? i thought you might be able to kick up the box office a bit...

comment #29

D.Z. says ...

Rich: "Nobody talks like the characters do in All About Eve (or Casablanca, or The Wizard of Oz, or Streetcar Named Desire), but that's partly the point. Tarantino understands this (cue D.Z.) and that's why his movies are quoted endlessly."

No one talks like they're in a Tarantino movie, either. His movies are quoted endlessly, because people think he's "original".

Movie Man: "That's because, especially in a time where Oscar seems more important than anything else, that dramas aren't allowed to be playful anymore, eloquent, they all have to be heavy handed and patting themselves on the back for their "importance." Guys in other genres, such as crime, still feel free to play."

I think the dialogue is compensating for an inability to shoot action sequences which aren't just copied from other films.

christian: Saw it. Liked it up until she had a baby.

comment #30

Rich S. says ...

You could set your watch by him....

comment #31

The Movie Man says ...

"No one talks like they're in a Tarantino movie, either. His movies are quoted endlessly, because people think he's "original"."

Actually Tarantino's dialogue not resembling real life was THE ENTIRE DAMN POINT of that part of the thread. D.Z., not to get too personal, but I have to know, did Q.T. fuck your sister or something? Because that grudge seems to be a little unhealthy.

comment #32

hatchetface says ...

And now we know you can miss the point multiple times, even when quoting the material yourself.

comment #33

erniesouchak says ...

Flawed as he is, Woody Allen has written some great parts for women & has certainly penned some memorable dialogue.

Great lines aside, the "staginess" of All About Eve is undeniable. Still, I prefer it to Tarantino's staginess, which reeks of a cokehead who's just jerking off.

comment #34

Cadavra says ...

There are plenty of great lines and roles for women; they're just all on the small screen. GILMORE GIRLS. VERONICA MARS. STUDIO 60. MEN IN TREES. BOSTON LEGAL. 30 ROCK. I'm not saying they rank up there with ALL ABOUT EVE, but then, how many feature films do?

comment #35

christian says ...

i hate most of today's so called great tv writing. it's all meta ironic snark. david kelly is the worst offender. talk about phony.

and woody still writes some of the greatest dialogue in american film. just revisted DECONSTRUCTING HARRY and found it raunchily delightful all over again...

better that than SCRUBS...fuck tv!

comment #36

D.Z. says ...

MovieMan: "D.Z., not to get too personal, but I have to know, did Q.T. fuck your sister or something?"

No, he just fucked my favorite Asian films.

ernie: "Great lines aside, the "staginess" of All About Eve is undeniable. Still, I prefer it to Tarantino's staginess, which reeks of a cokehead who's just jerking off."

I agree with that one.

comment #37

The Movie Man says ...

Christian-agreed on tv and especially agreed on Woody Allen's Deconstructing Harry. I always bring this and Sweet and Lowdown up when people make gross generalizations about his latter work. DH has a lousy, I'm ok you're ok ending, but other than that its a brilliant self-analysis from a great writer-director. I thought that Allen's newest SCOOP, while very derivative, was much better than it was given credit for, a very enjoyable confection.

comment #38

quizkid82 says ...

alfred:

Of course "SNL" is terrible. What I was getting at was that this sort of article is written every year without failure, and that I don't need to read it anymore. It's not like I'm going to stop seeing movies just because Anthony Lane thinks they all suck, and I'm not going to stop hoping for that very rare flash of brilliance on "SNL."

comment #39

Pinko Punko says ...

Baxter is playing a sociopath. And she comes across as one. Her key scene is the very last one where she comes across an even creepier version of herself. And the final scene with the girl and the mirror is amazing.