comment #1

Rich S. says ...

This phenomenon is not limited to comedians. Look at Spielberg's attempts to revise E.T. because he was looking at it through the prism of parenthood.

comment #2

George Prager says ...

And the horror genre too. John Carpenter said that after having kids he wouldn't think of killing Kim Richards in Assault on Precinct 13 with a bullet through an ice cream cone!

comment #3

The Movie Man says ...

I think that more revealing element here is the notion of an artist being on edge or hungry. I don't mean the cliche of a drunk wife beater who composes brilliant novels/scripts/performances by night, but more of the feeling the need to prove yourself variety, the insecurity, the perfectionism, the staying up all night when you've got ten cents left in your budget to get a shot, I think that breeds great moviemaking. Comfort and security are not good for great movies, at least not usually.

comment #4

Mark says ...

i thought Ledger was playing the joker cuz Chris Nolan was directing. but no, you're right, he's thinking of his kid's college fund.

actually this phenomena, i.e., kids, settling down = killing one's edge, is far from recently discovered. And every comic in the world is aware of it. In fact, every professional athlete and most having a job where edge is essential is well coached on the pitfalls of a settled personal life.

But eventually, every individual succombs, bites the bullet, and says it won't happen to them, and they're all wrong. (Larry David and Tiger Woods, excepted.)

comment #5

JD says ...

Working with Nolan is never a sell-out job. And even if it was, Heath Ledger didn't need to have a kid to sell out. Before having a child, he made movies like 10 Things I Hate About You, The Patriot, A Knight's Tale, Ned Kelly, The Order, Lords of Dogtown, etc. (one Brokeback Mountain and people forget his entire crappy career). If anything, he represents the opposite trend. Since having a child, he's signed on to projects by arguably the two best filmmakers he's ever worked with (Noland and Todd Haynes).

comment #6

christian says ...

ben stiller stopped trying to be funny after "there's something about mary" to coast on his perceived mad comedy skillz in making painful faces while being humiliated. "dodgeball" was the apex of this idiocy. and he had the cajones to make mickey rooney audition. say what you will, but the rooney is a real actor and knows more about comedy than stiller could forget.

comment #7

AH says ...

I don't know about this guy, Enright not Stiller. First he knocks "Dodgeball" which I thought was pretty entertaining. Then he names the wrong director and goes and makes a statement based on that mistake.

His theory could very well be correct but the fact is that making just those two "errors" makes me doubt his overall point about Stiller.

comment #8

lesterg says ...

Forget the fact that the movie isn't directed by Stephen Sommers and that his comments on Heath Ledger's career are moronic: I stopped paying attention when he attacked Stiller's performance in Dodgeball. That's the only worthwhile thing he's done since Zoolander...

comment #9

MathewM says ...

So Ben is going to end up like his dad on some popular but low-brow comedy like King of Queens. Maybe that's just the trajectory of his career. Of course marrying the hot blond from the Brady Bunch movie is probably pretty sedating as well.

I would say that Ben is just enjoying life, nothing wrong with that. How many Permanent Midnights do we really need?

comment #10

insidah says ...

I don't think it's the kids...I think it's the lack of real hunger. George Lucas was literally once thin and starving and made STAR WARS. Then he became successful, fat and boring and made STAR WARS: THE PREQUEL ABOMINATION TRILOGY.

comment #11

The Movie Man says ...

JD-Agreed. Well said.

comment #12

Joe Leydon says ...

Actually, having children can affect you in ways you might never dream. I once interviewed an Oscar-winning actress who told me that, after she had kids, she resolved to never again do nude scenes, because she didn't want her children seeing her like that. I also interviewed an Oscar-winning actor (and fairly well-established Leftie) who told me that, after he had his first child, he wanted to buy a gun to be sure he could "protect" his family. I didn't laugh because, frankly, I had the very same impulse when I became a parent.

comment #13

The Movie Man says ...

Ben Stiller doing shitty comedy is not exactly that much of a tragedy, the guy at his best is ok, mildly amusing. A much more tragic, apt illustration of this idea is Robert DeNiro. Let's face it: going from Reality Bites and There's Something about Mary to Night at the Museum doesn't carry half the sting of going from Taxi Driver and Raging Bull to Meet the Paychecks.

DeNiro hasn't quite become the joke of a latter Brando, but he hasn't been good since a certain movie (which will go unnamed in order to avoid a tedious back and forth with DZ) and he's been ourtight fucking bad many times.

comment #14

Peter T Chattaway says ...

. . . which screens today at 3 pm, which in itself is usually a bad sign -- films shown to the press during daylight hours are usually simple-ass family fodder . . .

Eh? A lot of movies, especially grown-up movies, get daytime screenings in my city, and one of the warning signs around Night at the Museum was that it was only screened in the evening ... and in a theatre that is at least an hour's commute from the city! "Simple-ass family fodder" is typically screened during the day on weekends -- but during the week, daytime screenings are as mature as the studios will let themselves be.

comment #15

Goulet says ...

I actually think Night at the Museum is great entertainment, worthy of being compared to the '80s work of Spielberg, Dante and Zemeckis. Plus, and this is coming from a Stiller hater, Ben gives a surprisingly nuanced performance and is all the funnier for it.

comment #16

Arran says ...

Dodgeball is the greatest movie ever.

comment #17

christian says ...

but stiller was once pretty unique and funny with his tv series. that said, he's probably surrouned by so many syncophants that he thinks he's much funner than he was. i fear owen wilson is falling into this category too especially whenever him and stiller appear together.

and deniro was always overrated to begin with outside of a handful of great films so his fall to meet the paychecks (ha!) isn't too surprising. i mean, watch ROCKY AND BULLWINKLE or those ridiculous "my life, my card' amex ads. my ass. do a play bobby. get in the water with the others.

comment #18

christian says ...

and sorry to be a bad movie grinch but DODGEBALL was horrendous and funny only to those that think characters geting hit repeatedly with objects is the height of wit. rip torn was embarassing.

comment #19

christian says ...

but his last, best work remains rupert pupkin becuse he was so undeniro.

comment #20

Movie fan09 says ...

I don't think it's the kids...I think it's the lack of real hunger. George Lucas was literally once thin and starving and made STAR WARS. Then he became successful, fat and boring and made STAR WARS: THE PREQUEL ABOMINATION TRILOGY.

not true.
I saw him on Charlie Rose during the press for the new trilogy.
he said he only made the new ones to build up his bank acct after the divorce nearly ruined him.
he needed the money to fund personal projects after star wars.

thats it.

as for stiller...

yea, it's definately happened.
he has lowered his ability to make good comedic movies.
however...I read that the creators of reno 911 had to make this movie in order to make reno:911 miami
so im guessing ben is friends with lennon and ben g. so he made this movie and got all these people together so that they could get people in the seats and give the studio enough confidence to provide adequate budget for reno.

comment #21

The Movie Man says ...

Agreed on THE KING OF COMEDY, and I agree that DeNiro finds a key and plays it over and over again. But, at his best, its a hell of a key to play. I think he's terrifying in the underrated, better than the original CAPE FEAR. And the guy has a blunt force in all the other Scorsese pictures that is commendable. But he's awful with comedy, and his impression of "normal person" is, actually, has he ever played a normal person?

comment #22

frankbooth says ...

"De Niro was always overrated"?

Are you trolling? 'Cause that's a ridiculous thing to say. Rocky and Bullwinkle was relatively late, post shark-jump in his career. Look at his body of work up to the early '90s . Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Leone's OUATIA, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Godfather 2, King of Comedy...and I'm sure I'm forgetting a good number of titles that someone else will helpfully come up with.
(And he has done theater. Google it.) I completely agree that he's become a sad spectacle, but don't knock his early work.

I agree about Stiller, except to say that he was the ONLY decent thing in Dodgeball. At least he wasn't playing his usual nebbish. Total waste of Rip Torn and the supporting cast.

Wilson jumped long ago. Unless a movie he's in gets exceptional reviews (Wedding Crashers) or is directed by a Wes Anderson, I tune out as soon as I see him smirking and mugging in his pantented, laid-back way.

Okay, I'll stop drinking coffee now.

comment #23

christian says ...

a true artist doesn't get weak from fame. woody allen's films only got better and say what you will, but he's always trying new things. ditto soderbergh. and clooney.

comment #24

Sean says ...

"actually, has he ever played a normal person?"

'Falling in Love'. Terrible movie, but he and Meryl Streep are pretty amazing in it, especially with the sound off.

comment #25

christian says ...

"Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Leone's OUATIA, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Godfather 2, King of Comedy..."

like i stated, a handful of great films. you named them all. altho i don't think GOODFELLAS is great at all and deniro is hardly a wowser in it.

but maybe you've forgotten WE'RE NO ANGELS or whatever that thing was with sean penn...

of course, i'll throw in WAG THE DOG as a great film. but hoffman steals the film from bobby.

comment #26

christian says ...

and of course, my favorite bad movie of the 90's, kenneth branagh's comedy epic FRANKENSTEIN... especially that slapstick scene with branagh and a nude deniro slip-sliding in fluid....

comment #27

The Movie Man says ...

Christian- I agree with the point. Specifically I think Allen's work has been inconsistent lately (though i think SCOOP was underrated, a very delightful little movie), but he is a true artist, and selling out isn't the reason for the spottiness. Agree with Soderbergh and Clooney, their failures are admirable and their work is consistently interesting.

frank-I think I would add Wes Anderson to the shark jumping, not for any particular instance of selling out (his card ad was the best) but because he refuses to expand beyond his rapidly becoming tedious hipster-ironic, everything looks like low budget theatre style. I haven't disliked any of his movies, but as a collective, they are beginning to irritate me.

comment #28

Glenn Whipp says ...

De Niro is awful with comedy???? Have you ever seen "Midnight Run"? De Niro's comic timing opposite Charles Grodin is impeccable. The man does a fine slow burn.

comment #29

The Movie Man says ...

I have to defend GOODFELLAS, plot-wise Scorsese has done that 10 times, but its funny and alive and has a bravura, fluid craftsmanship that most directors would kill for, the fact that its not even Scorsese's best film says a lot.

comment #30

The Movie Man says ...

Glenn-I dig the hell out of MIDNIGHT RUN, and DeNiro does a good slow burn, but you said it yourself, Grodin is the funny one in that film.

comment #31

Rich S. says ...

Thanks, Glenn. I knew there was a great DeNiro comedy out there, but I couldn't remember it.

I also really like his cameo in Brazil. Black comedy, to be sure, but he is still funny.

comment #32

christian says ...

yes, MIDNIGHT RUN. but grodin owns it.

and dito movie man on wes anderson. diminishing returns on the same salingeresque themes.

comment #33

christian says ...

okay okay and deniro is great in BRAZIL because he plays against type.

comment #34

Glenn Whipp says ...

Agreed ... Grodin is brilliant, but you can't discount De Niro's work as the straight man. Grodin works so well because he's playing off De Niro's frustrated, fed-up tough guy. De Niro's reaction shots to Grodin's antics are priceless.

comment #35

The Movie Man says ...

Glenn-I really like DeNiro in MR, but essentially he's the straight man in that film and he doesn't do much that he wouldn't do in a straight performance. When he goes for laughs himself (ANALYZE THIS and THAT, MEET THE FOCKERS, etc.) he's in trouble.

comment #36

Mr. Peel says ...

De Niro's tiny head shake to Grodin just after he's yelled into the phone about he's "gonna shoot this guy and bury him in a swamp!" is one of the single biggest laughs I've ever heard in a theater. I still remember that all these years later.

comment #37

bmcintire says ...

Go ahead and take your potshots, but he pretty much rocked in RONIN, HEAT, CASINO, STANLEY & IRIS (close to normal in another not very good movie), AWAKENINGS (brought actual human emotion to the treacle being poured by Williams and Marshall), THE UNTOUCHABLES, JACKIE BROWN (with the bonus of shooting Bridget Fonda!) and THE DEER HUNTER. In the late 80's - early 90's , he became to go-to man for lightweight projects needing gravitas (BACKDRAFT, MAD DOG & GLORY, MIDNIGHT RUN) and that sort of poisoned the well, leading to crap like ANALYZE THIS/THAT and PARENTS/FOKKERS, where someone thought it would be great to cast the idea of Robert DeNiro. They just didn't take into account that he's pretty much comedic death. Much like ROCKY & BULLWINKLE.

comment #38

The Movie Man says ...

bmcintire-we're pretty much on the same boat, but he doesn't stretch much, and this most recent decade of work has been terrible. I especially agree on AWAKENINGS, a movie I saw twice that I normally wouldn't see once because of DeNiro's participation. DeNiro did for Marshall what Crowe did for Opie (make a medicore product not seem quite so mediocre until about an hour after watching it.) And JACKIE BROWN was what I was referring to in an earlier post.

comment #39

christian says ...

poor ben stiller. this post was about him at one point..but what can you say about DODGEBALL, STARSKY AND HUTCH and...and...

comment #40

Arran says ...

"DODGEBALL was funny only to those that think characters geting hit repeatedly with objects is the height of wit."

And? ;)

comment #41

jjgittes says ...

Man, some weird posts here. De Niro was pretty much awful in some of the pictures he's getting praise for in this thread : "Stanley & Iris?" "Falling In Love"? Come on people he was awful in both those films. The scene where he's walking with Fonda and giving the scientific names of the trees is one of the great howlers of all time.

He's ok in "Jackie Brown" and "Ronin" but sure didn't "rock" those pictures. Nice to be a legend.... that free pass lasts a long long time I guess.

comment #42

Hallick says ...

Oh man, where did the stupidity start here? When Dodgeball, one of the best "dumb" comedies of the decade, got lumped in with Envy and Duplex? Or where Heath Ledger taking the part of The Joker in the next Batman movie is equated with Martin Short playing Jack Frost in Santa Clause 3?

And Night at the Museum might just be a good family comedy (God for-fucking-bid that!); but it does look funny and successful on that level, kind of like Galaxy Quest was. It could still be shit too, but why don't you see the movie BEFORE you draw a damning conclusion about it?

comment #43

christian says ...

GALAXY QUEST hd a great script. period. it was built-in funny, not added-in funny.

comment #44

The Movie Man says ...

Regarding the "is DeNiro funny?" debate I think he's legitimately funny in JACKIE BROWN and there's a vulnerability, a desperation to the character that's leagues deeper than anything he's done since (easy feat). He's not DeNiro the brooder nor quite DeNiro the psycho or DeNiro the schmuck, he's a little bit of each, and it's a wonderful performance.

NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM may very well be great but JUMANJI with the director of the remake of CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN and the remake of PINK PANTHER does not leave me optimistic. Let's also address the just a good family comedy thing, because I hear that I lot whenever I don't care for a popular children's film, why should those films be held to lower standards? Why should kids movies always be frentic and stupid? This mentality is why they are usually so loud and devoid of any mystery or story or originality.

GALAXY QUEST is a wonderful film, with great performances and not a bit of calculation or cynicism.

Ok, think I'm caught up, getting off my soapbox now.

comment #45

erniesouchak says ...

I don't think Ben Stiller has lost his so-called edge, he's just gotten LAZY, and I doubt parenthood has anything to do with it.

comment #46

mdc says ...

"De Niro's always been over-rated outside of a handful of films"

Christian, what film actor has had a career better than "a handful of great films"? Mastroianni? Tracy? Gabin? Olivier? They all come down to three or four roles. I agree I'm in the generation that found a new De Niro performance exciting and thought he'd keep coming up with new ones, but there are a thousand reasons actors don't keep surprising you. I was knocked out earlier this year when I saw Michel Bouquet, an actor I've loved since La Femme Infidele, in the Mitterrand film, because I thought Bouquet was long ago consigned to history. Out of nowhere, he did something fresh at 70-ish or whatever he is. De Niro's record of 'a handful of great films' is a very , very rare one.

It's an interesting question. I've been pondering actors past & present and I can't think of an actor that's done more than four really original roles. Maybe it would have to be a character actor.

comment #47

RoyBatty says ...

Just re-watched the "Extras" episode with Stiller in it, which to me is the one that really fell flat as Stiller was doing YET ANOTHER version of his "angry, uptight prick" schtick.

The other cameos (Kate Winslet, Ross Kemp, Patrick Stewart and Sam Jackson) were all had the balls to make it believable, but Stiller does the tired old "I'm a huge Hollywood star" bit you've seen parodied a thousand times before. Outside of EMPIRE OF THE SUN and PERMANENT MIDNIGHT, has he ever given a "straight" performance without ticks?

comment #48

christian says ...

jimmy stewart, michael caine, oliver, welles, dustin hoffman, spencer tracy, and many others have or had long careers with many great films to their credit. that doesn't mean i have to love deniro. i've analyzed my feelings towards his work and wonder, "is it me? do i just not get it?"

but i know he's amazing in KOC and uninteresting in scores of other films. movie man is right in his take on JB tho but he's not the sole reason i would watch a film.

especially not after THE FAN.

comment #49

christian says ...

ben stiller was in EMPIRE OF THE SUN?

he probably reached his shtick angry prick in MYSTERY MEN a film that has some funny moments but the script was terrific.

comment #50

PatrickE98221 says ...

While I'll cop to the misspelling of Sommers' name, I do want to point out that I never said he was the director. I called "Night at the Museum":

"Steven [sic] Sommers' attempt to bring his crazy "Mummy" antics to a setting that wouldn't require travel to far-off locations: a natural history museum."

I knew Sommers was once attached as director and producer, and according to Yahoo Movies, he's still one of the producers:
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809266172/info

It was in that spirit that I referred to it as "his" film.

-- Patrick E.

comment #51

D.Z. says ...

I think I only liked Stiller for his show. Other than that, he's not really leading man material, and
doesn't have anything going for him. Anyone who thinks he only sucked around 2002 probably didn't see Mystery Men.

As for Eddie, his lucky streak was bound to end eventually.

MovieMan: "DeNiro hasn't quite become the joke of a latter Brando, but he hasn't been good since a certain movie (which will go unnamed in order to avoid a tedious back and forth with DZ)"

Playing Tommy Chong doesn't really take talent.

comment #52

Dave Polands Gut says ...

Ledger doing Batman is about one thing. Money.

Same with Stiller in all these crappy movies. What movies pay the best.

comment #53

rocco says ...

Stiller is not a naturally funny person...he's good at interpreting other people's material...how long can someone really run with that in today's cynical culture?

As for De Niro, he hasn't stretched himself since 'This Boy's Life,' (which also happens to be the pinnacle of DiCaprio's acting career). He's a sellout and has, willingly, become a caricature of himself...but hey, it's his life, get your own.

comment #54

Pete Zha says ...

"While I'll cop to the misspelling of Sommers' name, I do want to point out that I never said he was the director. I called "Night at the Museum":

"Steven [sic] Sommers' attempt to bring his crazy "Mummy" antics to a setting that wouldn't require travel to far-off locations: a natural history museum."

I knew Sommers was once attached as director and producer, and according to Yahoo Movies, he's still one of the producers:
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809266172/info

It was in that spirit that I referred to it as "his" film.

-- Patrick E."

Anyone else's bullshit detector go off?