I love the way Olive's outrageous dance at the end is only a slightly more over-the-top version of the sex-ified performances of the other contestants, which of course the outraged pageant organizers completely miss. Not to mention that Olive was more honest about it. There is indeed more depth and complexity to this movie, a movie that too many here are labeling as a "good sitcom at best". I still want Marty to win "Best Director", but it wouldn't bother me if LMS takes the "Best Pic" statue.
Joe, what other depth and complexity does the movie have outside of what you say, which basically translates to a single biting commentary on the pageant world? Emphasis on 'single'.
Whether or not LMS deserves an Oscar is debatable, but it is a sweet flim with heart and has a great cast. It's certainly heads above most of the crap that gets made every year.
Good movie and I wouldn't be unhappy if it won best picture. In fact this is the first year I can think of in a long time that I wouldn't care if any of the five films that are up would win. I know that LMS isn't Children or Pan's, hell it's not even in the same league, but it's still a good movie and a lot better than some of the films that have came out this year that could have been up *cough Dreamgirls cough*.
It's a good scene because it is universal thematically. True society is going to put the pretty people on pedestals and make fun of the ugly people (watch an episode of American Idol for proof) but that's just the way we're wired. The only thing lacking from most people is being self-aware. Of course self-awareness isn't pleasant like idiocy is.
I don't have time to offer a complete overview of LMS's thematic content, but here's a brief overview. As Michael Arndt has stated in several interviews, the movie is best udnerstood as a meditation on competitiveness and the American attitude toward success. Every one of the characters is a failure who comes up short of his/her goal in a significant way. Just acknowledging this truth is more reality than most movies allow these days and the film still manages to be somewhat uplifting -- in spite of its bleak, honest outlook -- because it's guided by a distinct philosophy that breaks from status quo thinking about success. LMS makes the highly unorthodox point that success is actually not worth pursuing and, as represented by the beauty pageant contestants, insidious in some way. They are a powerful metaphor for all the compromise and insincerity that is quite often necessary to achieve success in this day and age. In a way, winning best picture would be thematically wrong for the movie, as it is basically a critique of awards, success, etc. Ironically, if the movie wins best picture, many critics of LMS will have to agree with its thesis (ie. that awards are generally given to compromised, dishonest, low quality work).
Well, there's theory and there's execution. While I don't deny that those themes are present in the movie, they're not developed/executed in any really forceful/radical/interesting manner. In my opinion.
And another thing, when Little Miss Sunshine wasn't busy doing a poor job of developing its themes, it ran over my dog and left a note saying "hah hah, sucker".
(shaking fist in anger)
Damn you Little Miss Sunshine! You're the worst movie EVER!
I don't think The Fountain is that great or LMS is that bad. But I do think that it's kind of a trifle.
Plus it's screenplay is one of the biggest weaknesses of the movie. Everything that's good about it is thanks to the actors and directors.
"Not a movie for those who think THE FOUNTAIN is a work of forceful, radical genius."
Does this have to include the words "forceful" and "radical"? Neither comes to mind in regards to "The Fountain", but I do think it's genius - and should be the film that would take home all the Oscars - and I still enjoyed "Little Miss Sunshine" immensely.
Good show, Gabriel m'boy. Good show. The Fountain is still the cat's pajamas in my eyes.
I'm over my "down with LMS" campaign. It's a fine film and if it wins, good for the cast and crew. But I'm still rooting for The Departed, Marty (since Cuaron and Del Toro got bitch-smacked) and Marky Mark.
I think it's a better than average Oscar season, even if the two best films - The Fountain and Children of Men - got insufficient recognition. Departed and Babel were both favorites of mine, and even Little Miss Sunshine beats the crap out of most of the Best Picture winners of the past decade.
"Little Miss Sunshine" is grand, but that scene at the pier just has something about it that stands out as soapboxing on the writer's part more than capturing a conversation. Not so much in the Proust lead-up but right about where Paul Dano's character starts going off about fuck-this-and-fuck-that. Then again, it does get saved by that "you're not nearly as stupid as you look" moment thanks to Carrell's delivery and Dano's laugh, but I still get fidgety.
The best scene that hasn't worn thin for me so far is the one with grandpa's advice to his grandson in the van. Not just because it's an old man talking dirty but because of the way Kinnear fires off that "again with the Nazi bullets!", the allusion to the intervention that went disasterously, the "when you're my age you're stupid NOT to" take drugs, etc. The minutia is what makes this movie great in my book; a lot more than any great overarching themes.
Carrell is great in that scene and Dano does the best he can with the laborious dialogue...he *almost* makes me believe that a 50 yr-old guy didn't write that.
Something that has always bugged me...You can't fly jets if you're color-blind? They couldn't have come up with something better than that?
Re MatthewM's post:
Anyone notice the disconnect between Keith Olbermann mocking AMERICAN IDOL's meanness
last night and Olbermann mocking the sad, disturbed female astronaut who nearly committed a crime of passion?
One thing in defense of LMS and in particular this scene: sometimes, in real life, people do actually talk about their frustrations and their search for meaning and air things out in a very straight forward manner, it's not always double talk and symbolism and artfully hidden riddles. I think people who frequent this site (and I am certainly including myself) tend to lose track of things like that.
Yes, LMS is very contrived in places, and I ultimately do not think its a great movie, but scenes like this are usually jumped on in all kinds of movies.
The color-blind thing is true. I have it and was told that I could not fly planes before I reached middle school. What's ridiculous is the fact that Dano's character wouldn't know that...no wonder's he's in a pissy move all the time; apparently his parents have never taken him to an optometrist!
comment #1
Mr. Gittes
says ...
Overrated.
Posted by Mr. Gittes
at February 7, 2007 10:40 AM
comment #2
Joe M.
says ...
I love the way Olive's outrageous dance at the end is only a slightly more over-the-top version of the sex-ified performances of the other contestants, which of course the outraged pageant organizers completely miss. Not to mention that Olive was more honest about it. There is indeed more depth and complexity to this movie, a movie that too many here are labeling as a "good sitcom at best". I still want Marty to win "Best Director", but it wouldn't bother me if LMS takes the "Best Pic" statue.
Posted by Joe M.
at February 7, 2007 11:29 AM
comment #3
ArchiveGuy
says ...
Meh. It's certainly not the best scene, but it is the Themiest ("Want to know the message of our cute little movie? Listen away!")
I'll take the SuperFreak number any day.
Posted by ArchiveGuy
at February 7, 2007 11:30 AM
comment #4
wayne76
says ...
"Good sitcom at best"? More like "bad sitcom at definitely".
Posted by wayne76
at February 7, 2007 11:35 AM
comment #5
jeffmcm
says ...
Joe, what other depth and complexity does the movie have outside of what you say, which basically translates to a single biting commentary on the pageant world? Emphasis on 'single'.
Posted by jeffmcm
at February 7, 2007 11:42 AM
comment #6
Edward
says ...
Whether or not LMS deserves an Oscar is debatable, but it is a sweet flim with heart and has a great cast. It's certainly heads above most of the crap that gets made every year.
Posted by Edward
at February 7, 2007 12:15 PM
comment #7
donthx78
says ...
Good movie and I wouldn't be unhappy if it won best picture. In fact this is the first year I can think of in a long time that I wouldn't care if any of the five films that are up would win. I know that LMS isn't Children or Pan's, hell it's not even in the same league, but it's still a good movie and a lot better than some of the films that have came out this year that could have been up *cough Dreamgirls cough*.
Posted by donthx78
at February 7, 2007 12:24 PM
comment #8
MathewM
says ...
It's a good scene because it is universal thematically. True society is going to put the pretty people on pedestals and make fun of the ugly people (watch an episode of American Idol for proof) but that's just the way we're wired. The only thing lacking from most people is being self-aware. Of course self-awareness isn't pleasant like idiocy is.
Posted by MathewM
at February 7, 2007 1:04 PM
comment #9
JD
says ...
I don't have time to offer a complete overview of LMS's thematic content, but here's a brief overview. As Michael Arndt has stated in several interviews, the movie is best udnerstood as a meditation on competitiveness and the American attitude toward success. Every one of the characters is a failure who comes up short of his/her goal in a significant way. Just acknowledging this truth is more reality than most movies allow these days and the film still manages to be somewhat uplifting -- in spite of its bleak, honest outlook -- because it's guided by a distinct philosophy that breaks from status quo thinking about success. LMS makes the highly unorthodox point that success is actually not worth pursuing and, as represented by the beauty pageant contestants, insidious in some way. They are a powerful metaphor for all the compromise and insincerity that is quite often necessary to achieve success in this day and age. In a way, winning best picture would be thematically wrong for the movie, as it is basically a critique of awards, success, etc. Ironically, if the movie wins best picture, many critics of LMS will have to agree with its thesis (ie. that awards are generally given to compromised, dishonest, low quality work).
Posted by JD
at February 7, 2007 1:07 PM
comment #10
jeffmcm
says ...
Well, there's theory and there's execution. While I don't deny that those themes are present in the movie, they're not developed/executed in any really forceful/radical/interesting manner. In my opinion.
Posted by jeffmcm
at February 7, 2007 1:10 PM
comment #11
Dixon Steele
says ...
Just saw LMS again for the first time since I saw it theatrically.
Terrific, especially when you consider it was a first effort both in directing and writing.
While I don't think it's the best film of the year, it may be the best comedy. Great performances and excellent commentary on the DVD.
It'll probably nab Best Original Screenplay and why not?
Is it forceful? Radical? No. Why should it have to be?
Not a movie for those who think THE FOUNTAIN is a work of forceful, radical genius.
Posted by Dixon Steele
at February 7, 2007 1:46 PM
comment #12
Craig Kennedy
says ...
And another thing, when Little Miss Sunshine wasn't busy doing a poor job of developing its themes, it ran over my dog and left a note saying "hah hah, sucker".
(shaking fist in anger)
Damn you Little Miss Sunshine! You're the worst movie EVER!
Posted by Craig Kennedy
at February 7, 2007 1:48 PM
comment #13
jeffmcm
says ...
I don't think The Fountain is that great or LMS is that bad. But I do think that it's kind of a trifle.
Plus it's screenplay is one of the biggest weaknesses of the movie. Everything that's good about it is thanks to the actors and directors.
Posted by jeffmcm
at February 7, 2007 1:58 PM
comment #14
Gabriel
says ...
"Not a movie for those who think THE FOUNTAIN is a work of forceful, radical genius."
Does this have to include the words "forceful" and "radical"? Neither comes to mind in regards to "The Fountain", but I do think it's genius - and should be the film that would take home all the Oscars - and I still enjoyed "Little Miss Sunshine" immensely.
Best scenes in the film: http://youtube.com/watch?v=e6i2WRreARo
Posted by Gabriel
at February 7, 2007 4:21 PM
comment #15
dre
says ...
Good show, Gabriel m'boy. Good show. The Fountain is still the cat's pajamas in my eyes.
I'm over my "down with LMS" campaign. It's a fine film and if it wins, good for the cast and crew. But I'm still rooting for The Departed, Marty (since Cuaron and Del Toro got bitch-smacked) and Marky Mark.
Posted by dre
at February 7, 2007 4:36 PM
comment #16
Gabriel
says ...
I think it's a better than average Oscar season, even if the two best films - The Fountain and Children of Men - got insufficient recognition. Departed and Babel were both favorites of mine, and even Little Miss Sunshine beats the crap out of most of the Best Picture winners of the past decade.
Posted by Gabriel
at February 7, 2007 5:20 PM
comment #17
Hallick
says ...
"Little Miss Sunshine" is grand, but that scene at the pier just has something about it that stands out as soapboxing on the writer's part more than capturing a conversation. Not so much in the Proust lead-up but right about where Paul Dano's character starts going off about fuck-this-and-fuck-that. Then again, it does get saved by that "you're not nearly as stupid as you look" moment thanks to Carrell's delivery and Dano's laugh, but I still get fidgety.
The best scene that hasn't worn thin for me so far is the one with grandpa's advice to his grandson in the van. Not just because it's an old man talking dirty but because of the way Kinnear fires off that "again with the Nazi bullets!", the allusion to the intervention that went disasterously, the "when you're my age you're stupid NOT to" take drugs, etc. The minutia is what makes this movie great in my book; a lot more than any great overarching themes.
Posted by Hallick
at February 7, 2007 5:27 PM
comment #18
rocco
says ...
Carrell is great in that scene and Dano does the best he can with the laborious dialogue...he *almost* makes me believe that a 50 yr-old guy didn't write that.
Something that has always bugged me...You can't fly jets if you're color-blind? They couldn't have come up with something better than that?
Posted by rocco
at February 7, 2007 5:42 PM
comment #19
The Movie Man
says ...
LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE is ok, no more, no less, and no one would hate it if it didn't get all of that so cool to hate Oscar attention.
THE FOUNTAIN is not a radical work of genius but I did find it more interesting and memorable than LMS. So sue me.
Posted by The Movie Man
at February 7, 2007 6:28 PM
comment #20
Dixon Steele
says ...
Learned from the Director's Commnetary that the Pier scene was a reshoot.
Originally the two guys actually rented surfboards and went out into the ocean. That's where it took place.
But the directors felt it didn't work, so they reshot the scene later on at the pier.
Posted by Dixon Steele
at February 7, 2007 8:16 PM
comment #21
Terry McCarty
says ...
Re MatthewM's post:
Anyone notice the disconnect between Keith Olbermann mocking AMERICAN IDOL's meanness
last night and Olbermann mocking the sad, disturbed female astronaut who nearly committed a crime of passion?
Posted by Terry McCarty
at February 8, 2007 1:24 AM
comment #22
The Movie Man
says ...
One thing in defense of LMS and in particular this scene: sometimes, in real life, people do actually talk about their frustrations and their search for meaning and air things out in a very straight forward manner, it's not always double talk and symbolism and artfully hidden riddles. I think people who frequent this site (and I am certainly including myself) tend to lose track of things like that.
Yes, LMS is very contrived in places, and I ultimately do not think its a great movie, but scenes like this are usually jumped on in all kinds of movies.
Posted by The Movie Man
at February 8, 2007 5:33 AM
comment #23
rashbot
says ...
The color-blind thing is true. I have it and was told that I could not fly planes before I reached middle school. What's ridiculous is the fact that Dano's character wouldn't know that...no wonder's he's in a pissy move all the time; apparently his parents have never taken him to an optometrist!
Posted by rashbot
at February 8, 2007 5:41 AM
comment #24
Abercrombie & Fitch
says ...
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at November 19, 2010 1:40 PM