comment #1

EwanC says ...

*Gulp* ... Let the fighting commence....

comment #2

westegg says ...

Absolutely terrific meditation on an important topic. Even Kubrick's 2001 can be included as a search for the transcendental. Kubrick himself had great respect for "the great unknown," without getting bogged down in the easy sentimentalities of faith or religion. It's also good to see a director such as Scorcese be attuned to these themes; let's hope with the success of THE DEPARTED he can afford to do a few more along these lines. This is where art and mystery can truly create something extraordinary.

comment #3

NYCBusybody says ...

Wells, I'd like to hear you say the exact same things about adherents to Islam - the negativity, the hatred, the derision you have.

I'm assuming that even as idiotic as you are, wearing Target clothing isn't as egregious an offense as holy-war inspired suicide bombing.

Which, of course, is really the point. The REAL tragedy of filmmaking today is the utter lack of artistic balls. ANYONE can attack "Heartland" types, and do, for their supposed sheep-like conformity to organized religion. William Donohue might issue a press statement or two, and rubes like me with improper thread count t-shirts will rabble about it in posts like these.

Mildly criticize Islam? End up like Theo Van Gogh.

Cowards like Wells NEVER mention Islam, which is the PRIMARY religion in the world today that invokes the name of God in horrible, terrible acts of oppression and violence.

Do they do this out of fear? Of course, although American journalists don't worry about it as much, because they're relatively safe here (thanks to Bush-Cheney, no thanks to cowards like Clinton, who was held in check by venally evil liberals, whose deaths cannot be swift enough, praise Allah). I think it's done purely out of sheeplike-comfort, though, which is, ironically, the exact thing they are always on the attack about.

Have some balls, Wells. Be a maverick.

comment #4

MAGGA says ...

moving off topic here, but Limp Bizkit? You must be joking. Apart from that, great read. And NYC, he was talking about all religions which of cours includes Islam. So there

comment #5

NYCBusybody says ...

On second thought, don't. You'll be killed by a Muslim within the week, guaranteed, and even I don't wish for your death.

And that's my last post on this thread, I don't want to contribute any more than I already have to cheap hit-count grabs.

God almighty, how this site has fallen in recent years.

comment #6

NYCBusybody says ...

He's talking about all religions? I saw Christians mentioned...I saw American heartland types mentioned...

If he was making a pan-religion statement, he wouldn't have specified anyone. He's a coward and he knows it. And a particularly idiotic one, which is of course why his life has amounted to getting snubbed by Scott Caan and blogging about the Oscars from a hotel.

comment #7

christian says ...

thanks to bush cheney, who were in charge on 9/11?

and you wish the death of liberals praise allah?

like i said, you neo-cons think just like the terrorists. all you left out was the word "faggot."

of course, democrots like cleland and kerry fought in a war unlike your alcholic president and his ceo vp who "had other priorities."

"Apart from being inclined to wear vaguely uncool hair styles and clothing from Target and J.C. Penney-type stores, people who are into "faith" are, I believe, good-hearted souls who, for the best of reasons, are basically into submission and, in a manner of speaking, a kind of spiritual cluelessness."

talk about clueless. your faith is that people who have it are morons? you have faith when you get into an airplane it will fly or that you're not going to die tomorrow -- otherwise you'd be out finding value and meaning in life. and realizing you simply don't know either waym but that doesn't discount the deep powerful feelings of connection that faith inspires.

why would a screenwriter spend a year writing without being paid? or an actor take demeaning roles for years? or anybody creating any art? because you believe.

yeah, i wish bergman had stayed away from issues of faith so we wouldn't have THE SEVENTH SEAL. or woody allen films. or 2001. or even PULP FICTION.

comment #8

NYCBusybody says ...

Bush-Cheney blew it in the lead-up to 9/11, but they've done a lot more since then to fix the problem than Clinton ever would or could have.

But leave it to the libs on this board to already stand up for degenerate Muslim scum.

I happen to like faggots, so I don't use that word.

comment #9

Ortega says ...

To NYCBusybody:

Didn't you write in your second posting that it was going to be your last one? You were just about to make my day there for a moment. And yet I see you writing again almost immediately after. Way to dash my hopes man, that's cruel.

comment #10

Josh Massey says ...

I wear clothing from Target and my favorite film of 2006 was Children of Men. Where, praytell O God of Hipness Wells, do I fall?

comment #11

NYCBusybody says ...

I know, Ortega, I even let myself down.

Must...resist..adding...to...hitcount...

comment #12

Mr. Muckle says ...

Very nice and moderate consideration, JW, to which NYC added his predictably idiotic dribbles. Although there are obviously a number of murderous nutjobs justifying themselves with religious quotations in Islam, it is fairly certain that NYC does not have the knowledge or experience to understand their causes and correctives, preferring the tactic of distracting us from cleaning up our own houses by suggesting "that other bastard's house is dirtier than mine."

In my opinion, Christianity went off the rails fairly soon after its inception (with its claims of exclusivity and its own obscenely violent ways of trying to enforce conformity), and an original impulse in Islam was a corrective to some of these.

Nowadays it's beyond retarded merely to be able to point out the rampant corruption in some other guy's religion, while giving lifetime passes to our homegrown mullahs like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and even that famous converter of the Bush, Billy Graham.

In a country leading the world in wealth and weapons, together with their misuse in gathering more of the same to the grave detriment of others, NYC does not even begin to account for the damage done by those assholes and their sycophants, so gee whiz, it's a mystery to him why so many of them dang foreigners despise him.

comment #13

NYCBusybody says ...

I account for Falwell and Robertson. I hate them. I'm an atheist.

How long has it been since an abortion-clinic was bombed? How many homosexuals are hung from trees in America?

I point out the idiocy in all religion. You don't, because you're a despicable coward who doesn't care about the lifes of people who suffer under the oppression of Islam, because you see all non-Europeans as one big mass of victims for you to protect and defend. They're just Third-world pawns to you, no less than to any Bush or Cheney, but you're too mindless to understand that. So I'll have to point it out to you.

comment #14

NYCBusybody says ...

And if foreigners despise me for that, bring it on. I'm proud to be hated by people I hate.

comment #15

NYCBusybody says ...

And yes, if pushed to it, I do think there is a semblance of humanity to even the most zealotous (word?) Christians that I don't see in Islamic counterparts.

But as long as liberals care more about Falwell than Bin Laden, people will suffer in Afghanistan, and Iran, and Iraq, and Palestine, under the hand of oppressive religion.

But you sure feel good for sticking it to Target, don'tcha? Idiots.

comment #16

Craig Kennedy says ...

I don't know. Once again I find myself agreeing with Wells in the big picture but being put off by his sneering tone of superiority.

I'm no fan of your average religious screwball whatever flag he or she is waving, but I take no issue with them seeking to get a grip on a nervous, angry and irrational world by acting like they have all the answers as long as they keep the bombs to themselves (whether the target is a skyscraper in Manhattan or an abortion clinic in Memphis makes no difference to me).

When it comes to movies though, I prefer the ones that ask spiritual questions rather than pretend to provide all the answers. Save the preaching for Sunday church. Instead, show me characters that are grappling with the notion of their existence in the same ways I am.

To answer Renshaw's question about how many I've seen "in the last 15 years where a character's religious beliefs played a significant role": I think he's defining religious beliefs too narrowly. They may not always be overtly couched in the language of one specific religion or another, but the movies I see are filled with spiritual struggles and moral questions. That's my religion.

comment #17

Mr. Muckle says ...

NYC, I think that basically you're too transparently hot under the collar and knee-jerk reactionary to warrant trying to have a sane and civil discussion with you. Go on hating, then. The point is that's not the solution, that's the problem.

comment #18

Rich S. says ...

I respect Jeffrey's position on the matter, but I think he defeats his own argument. How can one equate spirituality with status obsession? What does the fact that one shops at J.C. Penney's or Target have the least bit to do with one's spiritual health?

Jeffrey is a deeply conflicted individual. We've seen what he drives. We know that he risks his life and property each day to make his tea in a rusted misshapen pot. He's posted pictures on this site of the extraordinarily expensive skin care products he uses. He has had to ask for donations to keep his site running, and yet he routinely travels to destinations the average person can only dream of.

In many ways, he presents himself as austere, but then he degrades clothing for having insufficient thread count. His limited though contradictory views seriously damage his credibility.

Spirituality is where you find it. I was moved by the end of Titanic, which had nothing to do with religion. I was also fascinated by Charlton Heston's conversation with Rex Harrison concerning the portrayal of God in The Agony and the Ecstasy, which is otherwise about as ham fisted as you can get on the subject. I admired The Passion of the Christ, The Last Temptation of Christ and Monty Python's Life of Brian, all of which I thought had fascinating things to say about religion and spirituality.

I've always liked Chris Rock's speech in Dogma, where he observes that mankind took faith, which is a very good thing, and then loused it up by building up belief systems around it. In many cases, I find that is true about religion. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that all, or even the majority of, adherents to any religion fit any type of particular stereotype. To do so fits the very definition of narrow minded.

comment #19

cobhome says ...

Shopping at Bloomingdale's is not a sure sign of intellectual or spiritual superiority - and it is patently absurd to suggest so - Jeff - you run a great site and 90% of the time I love what you have to say - but your snobbery is really a drag - and thoroughly inconsistent with anykind of spirituality. Your remarks reflect so many levels of ignorance it is hard to even begin to address them but there is one thing I would say - the bloodbaths occurring in places like Iraq - Darfur - the Congo etc etc - did not start out as bloodbaths - they started out with people seperating themselves into the us's and thems - the folks who shop at Target versus the folks who shop at Bloomies ( or whatever store suits you) - ridiculing - stereotyping - reducing to absurd levels of simplicty the beliefs of others - is divisive - and starts us down the slippery slope towards violent confrontation. Please consider that next time you want to make a statement.

comment #20

Mr. Muckle says ...

Jeff's essential point (as I perceive it) is to make a distinction between mere believers and people with experience. Mere believers are sometimes not even aware there is such a thing as "experience" in spiritual/religious affairs, which trumps a system of belief, and they often even actively deny there could be such a thing. After all, the authority of experience (and the knowledge derived from it) trumps the authority of bureaucracy on which the shell of so-called religion depends.

Sure, he could possibly have put it more diplomatically in certain ways, but that would not stir up the process. Mostly, it appears that people react to the superficial and don't care about theh essence. So Target, Penney's, blah, blah. Who cares? I get my clothes the cheapest way possible and I'm past caring about being cool.

But to have an idea of the difference between a mere believer and, say, a "mystic knower" usually implies a level of evolvement beyond the usual, which is noteworthy.

comment #21

truefaith says ...

"Bush-Cheney blew it in the lead-up to 9/11, but they've done a lot more since then to fix the problem than Clinton ever would or could have."

Yeah, right, NYCGuy--Bush and Cheney did A LOT MORE since 9-11. They only made the terrorists, insurgents of Iraq, and al-Qaeda stronger. Now I feel a lot safer knowing that the terrorists are stronger and better equipped to bomb a baseball field in Phillie. Thanks Bush and Cheney for that.

Also, Bush and Cheney helped the Shiites in the Middle East to become stronger. Now there is an even greater chance that there will be an all out war in the Middle East between the once-dominated Sunnis and oil-hungry Shiites. Again, thanks Bush and Cheney for that. Isn't the world supposed to end in the Middle East? Well, Bush and Cheney are wasting no time to make that happen.

NYCGuy likes Bush and Cheney probably because he is making a ton of money from his oil stock inventments. As far as I am concerned, Bush is the worst president in modern times.

comment #22

ArchiveGuy says ...

"Jeff's essential point (as I perceive it) is to make a distinction between mere believers and people with experience. Mere believers are sometimes not even aware there is such a thing as "experience" in spiritual/religious affairs, which trumps a system of belief, and they often even actively deny there could be such a thing. After all, the authority of experience (and the knowledge derived from it) trumps the authority of bureaucracy on which the shell of so-called religion depends."

The problem, though, is that JW posits the two as mutually exclusive--if you are a person of "faith", then by virtue of that faith, you render all the transcendent experiences out there in the world as inaccessible. Only by being divorced from the stringent systems that define his perception of "faith" can one truly experience a spiritual moment.

Which is, of course, horseshit.

Many people have "faith" because it was hoisted on them from birth and they've led reclusive, insular lives in one-track-mind communities. But just as many (if not more) have had transcendent, genuinely spiritual experiences and choose to interpret or process them in a way that's obviously to JW's disapproval. Unless we achieve awakening just like he does, it's not "real".

Which, again, is utter horseshit.

comment #23

ratskiwatski says ...

I was literally five minutes away from firing up "Passion of Joan of Arc" when I checked in on this, but, instead - Let The Cartoons... Begin!

I'm your garden variety messed-up-ex-Catholic, now live-and-let-live-agnostic-heathen-fuck, and Renshaw's article kind of amused me. Take away the "Faith" from "Fox Faith" in that sentence and a more germane point emerges. Mainstream American filmmaking is and always has been averse to giving off a sniff of offense on any topic, period. It takes so much guile and infighting to get anything of any heft made, anything that isn't completely vapid... why should religion - more appropriately, spirituality - be exempt from the Great Lathe That Smooths All Edges? Not even Walden Media has the stones to make the Christian subtext (forget that - *text*) explicit in a C.S. Lewis adaptation, because they're not imbued with either deep spiritual or artistic sense - it's about the "family friendly" market sector... "Narnia" Happy Meals... in God We Trust. And why not? The low-hanging fruit is so much easier to pick.

What a surprise - something like Michael Tolkin's "The Rapture" (my opinion, the greatest American film I've ever seen about these matters) played to three customers and a projectionist while "Hostel" - oh, sorry, I meant "Passion of the Christ" - spoke to so many. And "Wild Hogs" outgrossed "Zodiac" - knock me over with a fucking feather. And, in further developments, Martin Scorsese is still hypovolemic from the quarts of blood he had to give up to film "Last Temptation," and "Rambo IV" is slated for an early 2008 release... sometime Easterish.

comment #24

cobhome says ...

Yeah - Bush is doing a gruesome, appalling job - but ya know - his predecessors weren't knights in shining armor and frankly - our democratic controlled congress is now happily reneging on the commitments Bush made to the whole "Make poverty history" effort - I have this suspicion that the issue isn't our leadership - it is us - the American people - would the politics of the Middle East have an impact on the world if Americans weren't guzzling gas - to totally blame Bush for that is silly.

I was in London when the terrorist attacks on the underground occurred - lots of chat re: "innocents" being hurt - a friend - who is Islamic - made an observation that continues to stay with me - that if we really have democratic societies in the West - than there can be no such thing as an innocent - for all actions of our governments are sanctioned by all of us - and we all have the power to change the course of our govenments actions. The comment has made me less inclined to rail against Bush and more inclined to look at what my own responsibility is for shaping the country I live in.

I am disinclined to think that new age gurus are mystics in the real meaning of that word - and at any rate - the great tradition of mysticism derives from the great religions - the sufi's of Islam- the monastic communties of Catholicism ( Merton anyone?) and certainly the traditions of Jewish mysticism ( the Kabbalists) etc etc. and the presence of doubt - uncertainty - informs all of the great organized religions. Much of the intellectual, scholastic achievements of western civilization were made by people of profound religious faith - the philospohical basis for rationalism ( ya know - the enlightenment?) were articulated by a couple of scottish presbyterians - one of whom was a bishop -

I do think Scorses's fascination with turning the novel "The Silence" into a film is a fine example of what Scott Renshaw is asking for - a complex deeply spiritual story of Jesuit missionaries - that explores deep issues of human experience - the existence of suffering - the search for meaning - the matter of faith - and those adherents to organized religions who do delve deeper into the mystery of faith - films such as this certainly should be made -

comment #25

filmradar.com says ...

Did it ever dawn on you that not all Christians fit into a stereotype? I am a Christian and get this....I'm also a liberal. I support gay marriage and pro-choice. I am a registered Democrat. I live in Los Angeles (not the midwest.) There are MANY other people like me out there.

comment #26

Joe Leydon says ...

So Jeff: What do you make of the deeply religious -- and, yes, deeply Christian -- folks who were/are at the forefront of the abolitionist, civil rights and anti-war movements because such activity was/is their way of practising what they preach?

BTW: I am writing this while seated in a way-cool Austin coffee shop, after seeing a documentary about Abu Ghraib, while wearing a shirt I bought at Target, jeans I bought at Penney's, and boots I bought at Wal-Mart.

comment #27

Craig Kennedy says ...

Before buy into Jeff's assertion of his own spiritual superiority, let's just remember this is the same guy who greeted news of Scorsese possibly making The Silence with a complete dismissal of the outstanding Kundun and an open wish that he'd stick to gangster pictures. Remember that the next time you're slumming at Target or JC Penny.

comment #28

Armin Tamzarian says ...

filmradar.com, you are not alone. There are many more of us than Wells would ever dream possible. His stereotypical, sanctimonious, elitist, ignorant rants instill a sense of rage in me that soon gives way to sadness. As time goes on, he appears more and more to be a sad, lonely man in a fruitless pursuit to fill a void deep within himself, living in the confines of deep-seated denial.

comment #29

jeffmcm says ...

This is the stupidest thing out of many stupid things that Wells has ever posted.

Jeffrey Wells: you are one of the worst people alive. Stop calling yourself hip, a journalist, an important tastemaker. You are an arrogant, elitist, snobbish, liberal kook.

comment #30

christian says ...

joe, which way-cool austin coffee shop are you in? i miss 'em all.

i'm assuming spider house or the flight path or little city...

comment #31

rocco says ...

Posts like this cause me to seriously question, why do I continue to frequent a website where I know the proprietor despises me, yet gladly accepts the revenue I indirectly drive his way?...

...despite being a very open-minded, rational person, very highly educated with several degrees (incl. Physics), and someone who lives a very "blue-state" lifestyle in every way (metropolitan setting with a healthy breadth of movies, food, tastes, an openness and eagerness to experience new things, etc, etc) I am also a person of FAITH. Despite all of my education and exposure to all kinds of worldly experiences--not to mention deeply painful loss that would presumably shatter one's faith--I CHOOSE to believe that there is knowledge beyond the grasp of man...I choose to believe in a place called hope...sorry, couldn't help myself...I choose to believe that there is something, call it God if you like, that gives us the ability and burden of contemplating our lives and our existence. I embrace science and man's quest to understand our origins and feel strongly that science and the concept of spirituality are complementary, and I do not ask that anyone share my beliefs...

...if that makes me irrational, stupid, sheepish, or any other adjective secular folks like to throw around, then so be it...but *I* know that my faith comes from a place of enlightenment after deep contemplation and reflection, and if myopic, intolerant jitbags like Jeff are dismissive, so be it...it makes the irony of their own faith in man-made enlightenment all the more amusing.

comment #32

Joshua Mooney says ...

Nice to find another "Rapture" fan. Agree with the rest of your take, too.

"What a surprise - something like Michael Tolkin's "The Rapture" (my opinion, the greatest American film I've ever seen about these matters) played to three customers and a projectionist while "Hostel" - oh, sorry, I meant "Passion of the Christ" - spoke to so many. And "Wild Hogs" outgrossed "Zodiac" - knock me over with a fucking feather. And, in further developments, Martin Scorsese is still hypovolemic from the quarts of blood he had to give up to film "Last Temptation," and "Rambo IV" is slated for an early 2008 release... sometime Easterish.

Posted by: ratskiwatski at March 14, 2007 11:02 AM"

comment #33

f.bush says ...

NYC Busybody:
I don't care what "Liberals" think about Fallwell or Bin Laden. I've been waiting for almost six years for the people in charge of this Country to capture or kill the bastard. All we've gotten in those six years is the wrong war perpetuated by lies, three thousand of our dedicated service men and women killed for no reason, God knows how many dead Iraqi men, women, and children, complete incompetence in every phase of the Occupation of Iraq, complete incompetence in response to Katrina, a world far more dangerous for Americans than before Bush started this bogus war. Isn't Walter Reade the last straw even for people like you?

comment #34

Mr. Muckle says ...

ArchiveGuy: "The problem, though, is that JW posits the two as mutually exclusive--if you are a person of "faith", then by virtue of that faith, you render all the transcendent experiences out there in the world as inaccessible. Only by being divorced from the stringent systems that define his perception of "faith" can one truly experience a spiritual moment. Which is, of course, horseshit."

I don't read that in what he said. Of course, perhaps it's not necessary to say that people of faith are "spiritual pikers." We could say that the various systems of religious belief (here called "faith") are more like elementary schools. However, it is not commonly said that we have to do our work and graduate from school. If we don't, then we ARE pikers. There's a difference between, say, reading about food in Gourmet Magazine, and cooking eating a fine meal. One is not exclusive to the other; they're different things.

ArchiveGuy: "Many people have "faith" because it was hoisted on them from birth and they've led reclusive, insular lives in one-track-mind communities. But just as many (if not more) have had transcendent, genuinely spiritual experiences and choose to interpret or process them in a way that's obviously to JW's disapproval. Unless we achieve awakening just like he does, it's not "real".

Which, again, is utter horseshit."

My mother was pretty much a churchy person. At some point in her life when I was young, she describes having had something of a "mystical" experience that, on its own merits, sounded fine. But soon she used it to justify so much literalistic, church-based interpretation that it was pretty much dead as far as I was concerned. That represented a devolution to me. You can't squeeze the atmosphere into a bottle. If you could, Bush would be charging you $60 a barrel for it.

cobhome: "I am disinclined to think that new age gurus are mystics in the real meaning of that word - and at any rate - the great tradition of mysticism derives from the great religions - the sufi's of Islam- the monastic communties of Catholicism ( Merton anyone?) and certainly the traditions of Jewish mysticism ( the Kabbalists) etc etc. and the presence of doubt - uncertainty - informs all of the great organized religions."

That's quite a worthwhile disinclination, imo. They are not real mystics, just childish pretenders.

While the genuine mystics and realizers may have grown up in a tradition, it's pretty much by definition that they have transcended those traditions, even if they continue to outwardly practice them. At some level, what does it matter then?

But they will not be party to exclusivist sentiments and superiority complexes about it, having seen something essential and true that informs all genuine religious inspirations.

comment #35

ratskiwatski says ...

Tamzarian - I'm just glad you didn't end your psych evaluation with a spirited, yet sadly knowing, "Up Yours, Children!"

Because that wouldn't be, well, Christian...

comment #36

Ju-osh says ...

Limp Bizkit was NEVER considered cool or interesting or daring by anyone with even a minimum of musical taste, Jeff. I'm guessing you think they're a 'hip' name to drop because David Fincher once worked with Limp Bizkit's lead singer on an aborted version of the film The Lords Of Dogtown. Well, you're wrong.

comment #37

nola says ...

Jeff should read the article in the NYTs about "the three amigos". I think it is fascinating how their Catholic upbringing has influenced their work.

I am sick of people esp. in this town being so self-righteous about not believing in anything except making money. Some of the most incredible art in the world would not be here if it where not for faith, some of our laws would not exist where it not for Judeo-christian beliefs. Enough already with the slamming of people who believe in something. We are not all fanatics. I consider myself a Christian, love Prada and Gucci and have never stepped into a Walmart (they didn't have them where I used to live...which was Manhattan, the bluest of the blue) . Jeff is tripping.

comment #38

rocco says ...

Wow, missed the Limp Bizkit reference the first time I read it...a guy who talks about enlightenment and having visited the other side of the door who would waste one precious second on this earth listening to Limp FUCKING Bizkit!!?? Is Jeff parodying himself?? Holy fucking shit...

...I'm sorry I spent as much time as I did responding the first time...a guy whose singular fixation is in being hip is not someone who's looking for an intellectual conversation about reconciling faith and spirituality with free-mindedness and rational thought. What a fucking maroon, trapped on his own little desert island where approval, not water, is his only concern.

Seriously, this is the stupidest fucking thing you have ever posted...so stupid it avoids offense.

comment #39

Hallick says ...

"I consider myself a Christian, love Prada and Gucci and have never stepped into a Walmart (they didn't have them where I used to live...which was Manhattan, the bluest of the blue) . Jeff is tripping." - nola

Jeff IS tripping. His cartoonish impressions of the religious is brain-blind. And it would make the evangelicals and mormons I know laugh their asses off at him. I live in a rather heartland-type small town, and as hard as it is for Mr. Wells to believe, these guys can run circles around most anybody else when it comes to clothes, hair, technology, music, etc.

I don't share their beliefs, but I do envy their sense of community and optimism. And their mix of modernity and ancient dogma would be a fascinating subject for films or television shows. There just has to be some serious tension in the middle of it all.

comment #40

cobhome says ...

seems like a lot of people stop growing in their understanding of religious faith at about ten - and then have adult experiences which challenge their ten year old child understanding of religion - and come to the conclusion that religion stinks - right Jeff?

read that something like 85% of all Americans believe in a personal God - reverse is true in Europe -15% believe in a personal God - does this explain Fellini?

comment #41

TheJeff says ...

Wow. Jeff Welles is a deeply insecure man. His silly self-portrait of a hip, urban, well-connected intellectual used to strike me as the comical posturing of a confused middle-ager trying to stave off a mid-life crisis. Recently though, his finger-wagging swipes at everyone from inner-city "blings" to red-state Christians has bordered on pathetic.

comment #42

TL says ...

Jeff, I've been reading you since the Reel.com days, and, all due respect, you're never more out of your depth than when you try to write about religion.

"the free-thinking, stand-alone satori crowd -- i.e., the spiritual seekers, mystics and knowers.... true mystical God-knowledge is for the shepherd. ..."

We all know you're just talking out of your ass here, so let's let that slide. What's truly remarkable is the way you acknowledge that your only frame of reference is "American heartland types," and then generalize your lack of experience to a concept as large as "faith" itself.

Why don't you just admit that you have no frame of reference on religious belief outside what's portrayed in the media by a small minority of loudmouthed knuckleheads instead of becoming the same type of knucklehead on the opposite end of the specturm?

comment #43

gruver1 says ...

Wells to TL and all the others: Suck on it, deal with it -- the rabid-doofus Christian right of the U.S. of A. is not only real but deeply & profoundly loathsome, and no amount of bash-postings on this site is going to change that fact. That said, it's very pleasant to hear/be reminded of the fact that there are tens of thousands of moderate-minded, conscientious, decent-hearted Christians out there who hang out at cafes and read Rilke and Kant and wear high-thread-count T-shirts.

comment #44

rocco says ...

"That said, it's very pleasant to hear/be reminded of the fact that there are tens of thousands of moderate-minded, conscientious, decent-hearted Christians out there who hang out at cafes and read Rilke and Kant and wear high-thread-count T-shirts."

I'll read that remark as sincere, but only because Jesus would want me to...

...I wish I could end with that, but facetiousness doesn't translate well in print...

...no, I'll take that as sincere because I want to believe you really mean it. I have faith in you, Jeff...

comment #45

kimi98 says ...

Wells to TL and all the others: Suck on it, deal with it -- the rabid-doofus Christian right of the U.S. of A. is not only real but deeply & profoundly loathsome, and no amount of bash-postings on this site is going to change that fact. That said, it's very pleasant to hear/be reminded of the fact that there are tens of thousands of moderate-minded, conscientious, decent-hearted Christians out there who hang out at cafes and read Rilke and Kant and wear high-thread-count T-shirts

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