comment #1

jeffmcm says ...

"Hong Kong"? What are you talking about? A throbbing metropolis?
If you hate it so much, move away. Seriously, stop. You're not adding to the cultural discourse or creating anything, you're just complaining about how much you hate the 99% of the country who doesn't like the same movies you like. I don't hear this kind of bile anywhere else, over and over again like a broken record.

comment #2

JD says ...

Jeff, as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to horror. Relative to its genre, the Rodriguez film is actually an extremely inventive and well-crafted film. I saw Grindhouse with several fellow horror fans last night and we all agreed it was Rodriguez's best to date. I'm not saying it's better than Death Proof -- it's more dense and disciplined, but the best moments in Death Proof are clearly superior -- but it's not an embarrassment either. You just didn't get it... because YOU'RE not hip enough.

And anyone who praises Death Proof without acknowledging the massive miscalculation of the performances in the last 10 minutes is overlooking something fairly significant. In the last 10 minutes, it shifts from being a credible homage to exploitation cinema to a downright joke. The characters lose all credibility. Now, if you look down your nose at exploitation films (as Jeff does), I guess this shift might be up your alley, but it's a huge deviation from the otherwise reverential tone of the films. Tarantino goes for cheap jokiness when he had laid the groundwork for something genuinely inventive and unsettling. Still, it was a great night at the movies and, in my theater, everyone stayed through the end credits, hoping for more. I may be wrong, but I suspect that word-of-mouth will be very good.

comment #3

travis b says ...

did anyone really think this movie would've done anything but mediocre sales? this is such a niche audience kind of film..already it's rated R so that kills the under 17 demographic, then what you have is a film that caters to a very select cult. . . i don't see why there's any surprise. the weinstein's should've released it on another weekend (easter seemed a rather odd choice)..maybe even had a limited release in new york and l.a. as a kind of ode to the old grindhouse films. even the films by tarantino and especially rodriguez very rarely made a boatload of money.

comment #4

gruver1 says ...

Wells to jeffmcm: It's a daily column, the news is the news, and I'm not going to avoid diagnosing the reality of movies and the marketplace and the way things are in order to please you. If you're tired of reading my opinion and analysis you can always take a road trip or open a book or jump off a cliff. Everything you write is nyah, nyah, nyah. Talk about one-note boredom.

comment #5

Stephe96 says ...

Jesus Christ. A movie aimed at a narrow target audience falls a few million short on its opening weekend...and from this you can deduce that the US is a "sprinkling of sophisticated urban havens surrounded on all sides by a massive Gorilla Nation?" You've gotta be kidding me.

I'd guess that the movie's perceieved failure has more to with the fact that a majority of moviegoers this weekend A) couldn't really care less about an homage to the crappy 'grindhouse' movies of yesteryear; B) are balking at the film's 3-hour plus running time; or C) like me, are kinda curious about seeing it, but will happily wait for the DVD.

comment #6

The Movie Man says ...

Jeffmcm, I largely agree with you, I tend to tire of Jeff's wannabe elitist (he doesn't quite make it to actual elitist) rants myself. But I can relate to his frustration and the taste of mainstream America does seem to ensure that we see that same crappy, boring hit movie over and over and over and over again.

"Tarantino goes for cheap jokiness when he had laid the groundwork for something genuinely inventive and unsettling."

I agree with this JD, I think DEATH PROOF is the better of the two films, its more ambitious, more ambivalent, but the ending didn't work for me. I think QT strives to please the critics more than he would ever dare admit, and he's stuck himself in a zone between genre director and genre deconstructionist, but he never totally commits to EITHER, and I think that was the reason I was a little underwhelmed by DP, as well as the 25 minutes too long Kill Bill vol. 2. QT needs to just say fuck it and totally go for one or the other, or opt for a third option and make another JACKIE BROWN, which is still one of his best films.

But then you risk losing the Jeff Wells' of your audience, who I think want a few kicks in their movies (everyone does) but also need to reassure themselves that they are better than that.

comment #7

JD says ...

Stephe96, if ever "happily wait for DVD" was not an option, this is the movie. Go right ahead, wait for video, but don't do it happily. Grindhouse was one of the beast theatrical experiences I've had in many years.

One more thing: is it possible for the Weinsteins to pull an about-face and cut the film in half for next weekend? It sounds crazy, but it might actually be a good idea. Better yet, they could wait a few months and release the long versions of each film theatrically, without mentioning the Grindhouse concept, which obviously alienates the less movie savvy audience. This would also get people like me, who have already seen the double feature, back in the theater. Hell, even if this doesn't happen, I wouldn't underestimate the power of repeat business on this movie.

comment #8

Tim says ...

"If you're tired of reading my opinion and analysis you can always take a road trip or open a book or jump off a cliff. Everything you write is nyah, nyah, nyah. Talk about one-note boredom."

Jeff, this is the best defense you've written in the comment section. Good stuff.

comment #9

The Movie Man says ...

Stephe96 has a point, but I choose to view it in the glass is half full fashion. 13 million for a 3 hour, R-rated splatter/art movie isn't half bad.

comment #10

Thrudvangar says ...

I'm not a big fan of either Rod or Tar so I went in pretty open-minded and I enjoyed Rod's film more. Less boring, more action, funnier...A chick flick by Tar is still a chick flick. The only good part was Kurt Russell and unfortunately whilst he sat at the bar the camera focused on Rosario and the girls and not him. Plus Zoe's nose distracted me.

A genius with dialog? Hip? What's hard about writing good dialog? Kevin Smith does it all the time. I just think there are people who suck at it. All it takes is a good ear and some research.

To be honest I probably would've liked Machete and Thanksgiving more as movies.

comment #11

christian says ...

this is a very special film and was certainly not intended to be STAR WARS. but the word of mouth exists and people who are unaware will be told by friends.

the teen girls next to me loved DEATH PROOF. i still think the dialogue is on the level of a pinkberry, and austin women are a lot more interesting. zoe bell has spunk but...she's a damn good stunt person. but i would have given up that 7 minute gabfest for 3 minutes more of kurt russell. i think qt does his best work with real actors. and he's the only actor in the movie that you can feel the audience get a charge out of.

i still had a great time and it captured a feeling that's still important today: going out to the movies. instead of attacking these good numbrs as a disaster, look at how many young people went and had a time unlike they've had at a theater. the grove audience was energized and many stayed hoping for a post-credits gift. this film will easily make its cash and profit. the dvd will be a goldmine.

don't push the marketing hype and then bemoan our fate. i agree american audiences are geting fed shit. but GRINDHOUSE
is a treat and attacking the weinsteins for making it is utterly bizarre. nobody else would have.

comment #12

The Movie Man says ...

christian-I think that about says it. I just want Grindhouse to be a big enough hit that we can get part 2 with full lengths of Machete and Thanksgiving. I'm not kidding. It's funny you mentioned STAR WARS because I said to the person I was with that this IS my Star Wars (never been a fan of the SW myself but thats another thread.)

comment #13

Noah says ...

I don't really see how Grindhouse not making a boatload of money says anything about the country we live in. Wow, people in our country don't want to see a three hour double-feature of a shitty zombie movie and a crappy car chase movie that is being sold as an homage to shitty movies. I mean, if I wasn't into movies at all and preferred to spend my free time reading (for example, not to say that it is superior), why would I want to check this flick out? But, if I were a blue collar guy from the "redneck" countries that Jeff loves to rail against, why would I want to see a zombie and car chase flick? I'd bet the people who checked this flick out are more in the red states than the blue ones.

comment #14

Noah says ...

it should be "why wouldn't I want to see a zombie and car chase flick".

comment #15

Stephe96 says ...

JD,

What I meant was, I'm much more interested in seeing the Tarantino segment than the "Planet Terror" flick. I'm sure I'll enjoy both, but I'm a sucker for a good car chase. If I had to wait for the DVD, fine. But that's meaningless now. I friend is dying to see it so I said I'd tag along this afternoon.

comment #16

JD says ...

Tarantino's dialogue in Death Proof is good, but it's not genius (like the dialogue in Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction). It's also endlessly digressive and meandering. To me, the second half of the film feels like it's several re-writes away from achieving the complexity of the first half. The second half works on its own messy terms, but it feels like Tarantino ran out of time and went into production with a rough draft.

Two questions:

1) Why did these movies need to cost so much? If they were really trying to make epxloitation films, they should have done it ultra cheap, rather than spend a lot of money and fake the cheapness. I'm not complaining about the quality of the movies, just the soundness of the economic decision-making.

2) Is it just me or did Rodriguez seem to spend 90% of the budget? Rodriguez is famous for using his budgets wisely, but most of Tarantino's movie is just people sitting/standing around talking. Other than the car sequences, it doesn't look like a $25-35 million movie.

comment #17

Noah says ...

ugh, I said "countries" instead of "counties" too...go easy on me, im hungover

comment #18

Thrudvangar says ...

And...I would've liked DP more if I knew Zoe was a stunt woman and that her on the hood was real. I know she played herself but I'd never heard of her.

I can't remember a movie where the audience I was with had more fun. Lots of laughter and applause.

comment #19

Thrudvangar says ...

Maybe it's the whole Easter weekend thing. I'm a Heathen so what do I know, but with all the gore and blood maybe it would be considered sacreligious to enjoy something like that this weekend. Maybe the crowds will be there next weekend.

Carlsberg beer gives me "happy fingers" I reckon.

comment #20

Wrecktum says ...

Wells is right about the demo breakdown of this movie. It played great in New York and L.A. (espcially L.A. Good lord, what a gross!), but died in the water practically everywhere else.

What I don't understand about Wells is his desire to insult and denigrate middle America tastes when he believes that that majority of Grindhouse sucks.

comment #21

JD says ...

A few more thoughts (sorry, I can't help myself):

I think Jeff actually said 60% of Grindhouse is good.

Shouldn't Bob Weinstein be lumped in with Harvey on the sadness front, seeing as this is a Dimension Film and whatnot.

Grindhouse's per screen average is actually better than Are We Done Yet's even though it's twice as long.

comment #22

gruver1 says ...

I didn't say a majority of the film sucks -- I said the Rodriguez sucks but the Tarantino is great, and the whole beat-up movie look and the cheesy trailers and all the '60s and '70s trimmings are great also. So it's more like 35% to 40% of the film sucks, at least by my sights. Besides, the Rodriguez isn't painful to sit through -- it's just tedious. I kept looking at my watch.

comment #23

christian says ...

what jeff ignores is that these very style of films played biggest in the south. BLOOD FEAST cleaned up in the hick towns.

GH is a 3 hour film. doesn't that mean less shows per day?
shouldn't that be calculated? 17 mill is fine. word of mouth kids...

comment #24

MathewM says ...

Didn't the last experiment like this, "Four Rooms" also fail at the box office? Anyway, I'm not a Rodriguez fan and I hated Sin City. His "Grindhouse" segment looks like more of the same. If it were a pure Tarantino film I would of dragged my girlfriend on opening weekend. As it is I don't think the film bombing has much to do with middle american tastes as much as it being a niche market film that further niches itself by breaking it's audiences into two. The Weinstein Bros. were idiots for greenlighting this thing for $70 million.

comment #25

Wrecktum says ...

"what jeff ignores is that these very style of films played biggest in the south. BLOOD FEAST cleaned up in the hick towns. "

Grindhouse is doing shitty in the south.

comment #26

christian says ...

so maybe we're the hicks now...

comment #27

Walter Sobchak says ...

I've read that the theaters here in Los Angeles that have been showing "Are We Done Yet" and "Blades of Glory" have been COMPLETELY empty over the past week. Not a single customer. Not one single dollar grossed. At first I was shocked until I remembered what a hip, sophisticated, urban community I live in. Apparently everyone was either hanging about the coffee shop discussing existensialism or at home reading Ginsburg and watching "Miami Vice" on DVD.

comment #28

Heli0tr0pe says ...

It's actually Ginsberg, smartass. My, how it brings a tear to one's eye, pondering how much more hip and sophisticated our community would be without all these knuckle-dragging, red-state troglodytes stinking up the place. Maybe you outghta head back to Milwaukee or Des Moines or St. Louis or wherever you're from, "Sobchak" - I hear they don't read much "Ginsburg" out there. They don't make liberal movies like "The Big Lebowski" there, either.

comment #29

Mr. Muckle says ...

So Grindhouse is more riffing off Tarantino's penchant for slumming in the dregs and trying to make something cool out of it. But when were actual grindhouse theaters and films ever "hip" and cool? Never. Who but a few demented, self-proclaimed hipsters in New York and L.A. could possibly have any 50s/60s-era nostalgia for the grindhouse scene? That scene didn't exist elsewhere, and elsewhere is happier for it.

And what the f*** does "hip" mean? Heroin chic? Tales from the Bowery? Some of y'all got a few cheap thrills when you were adolescents and managed to survive, so now you like to blow that up and tell us how hip it was. Load of bullshit. It's only Alzheimers.

comment #30

Noah says ...

ugh, Heli0, I think Walter was being facetious...

But, let's quite with the blue state/red state bullshit. I mean who fucking thinks about movies in those terms other than Jeffrey Wells? There are morons in New York City who want to see Wild Hogs. There are cineastes in Lawrence, Kansas who want to see The Wind That Shakes the Barley. Get over the blue/red thing, it's just arrogance on the part of those who think they are better than the rest. I live in New York City, there are as many morons here as there are in the rest of the country.

comment #31

Noah says ...

"quit" not "quite"...jeez, what is with me today

comment #32

Heli0tr0pe says ...

Nah, see the thing is, Noah...Walter was not really being facetious at all.

comment #33

Noah says ...

Yeah, he really was Heli0. Read his post again. The Miami Vice reference is a dig at Wells. And the theaters in LA, I would bet, have not been COMPLETELY empty when showing Wild Hogs or Blades of Glory. Walter, care to help me out here?

comment #34

VedaPierce says ...

In 30 years Rodriguez and Tarantino can make their homage to modern-day dreck like The Reaping and Are We There Yet? and Wells can't bitch about how audiences have no taste.

comment #35

Craig Kennedy says ...

To the contrary Mr. Muckle, I didn't grow up in New York but the same grindhouse aesthetic pervaded Drive-In culture as well which I remember as being decidedly suburban or rural. The one I went to as a kid was next to a cow pasture. I agree the audience for Grindhouse is probably narrow, but it's not limited to "a few demented, self-proclaimed hipsters in New York and L.A."

And yes Heli0tr0pe, Walter was being facetious as usual, but feel free to continue to be pissed off about it.

comment #36

Craig Kennedy says ...

For the record, I do live in LA now but I'm far from a hipster, self-proclaimed or otherwise.

It's a pretty sad fuckin' day when a discussion of an indulgent but entertaining (to some) lark like Grindhouse can lead to yet another red state/blue state squabble.

comment #37

Heli0tr0pe says ...

I think you're possibly being a bit literal-minded there, Noah (though I do appreciate the effort at chilling things out in the political hothouse that is the H.E. comment forum. That's why we keep coming back, right?). Rest assured that I undertstand the withering sarcasm with which Mr. Sobchak was attempting to make his point. In fact, it's the only point he EVER makes around here...

And it's the point itself that I have a problem with - i.e., that the Hollywood power structure is infested with them liy-livered liberals (most likely Jewish. There, I said it.) That's what it all comes down to with good ol' all-Amurikin folk like him.

Despite the fact that until last November this country was by almost totally controlled by Republicans (until their rank ineptitude forced a change, that is), and that Fox News is by far the most-watched "news" outlet in America, the "Sobchaks" of the world just can't get past their obsession with that pesky "liberal media." (The very same media that was so antiwar four years ago, really putting the Administration's case for war to the test - remember that? No? The liberal media that went so easy on Clinton around 1998 and '99, when he was impeached over a blowjob - remember that liberal media? The one that in 2004 called the Republican smear machine on their Swift Boat bullshit - remember them? Or how about the one that wouldn't let Bush get away with stealing the 2000 election - that one? Yeah - man, is that liberal media powerful or what!)

Anyway, something tells me Sobchak probably moved out here from the South or the Midwest eons ago, never made it in the Business, and somehow blames his resulting bitterness on Hollywood's left-leaning politics. Just guessing here, but I'd bet a few shekels I'm not too wide of the mark.

And that's his right. It's kinda pitiful, but it's his right as an Amurikin.

But you don't see me moving to Houston and then complaining about why there are so many damn conservatives in the oil industry. I mean, that would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?

comment #38

NYCBusybody says ...

There are a lot of blacks and Hispanics in NYC, and they eat up shit like Are We Done Yet, so it's pretty depressing living in urban areas too...troglodytes live everywhere, indeed.

comment #39

NYCBusybody says ...

And Jeff's just angry 'cause red-staters like me come to NYC and fuck incredibly hot girls who love our accents, while faded, washed-up never-has-beens like him probably have to settle for 53 year old divorcees who look like an aged Shelley Duvall in Annie Hall.

I suggest to my pussy urban brethren on these posts that you at least try to fake a Southern accent when you go out in NYC. You'd be amazed how many girls will immediately respond, and say they're tired of metrosexual urban fags.

comment #40

IndiSB says ...

This was just a bad weekend for this type of movie. The Weinsteins must be Jewish. Everywhere I went to yesterday and today was packed-stores, mall, grocery, etc. Everything is closed on Sunday, so people have to buy food, etc. today. No time for going to a 3 hour movie. The department stores were full of people buying clothes for Easter too. Even guys go to see their mother on Easter. The movies would have done better on the last weekend of April-just before Spider-Man 3. It would have gotten everyone in the mood for the upcoming blockbusters.

comment #41

J. Huff says ...

Let's be honest...Kill Bill Vol. 2 had the worst dialogue that QT had ever written, and Death Proof is said to be more of the same. Sin City was a cartoon for sickos and Planet Terror is said to be more of the same. The pass I gave these two based on Pulp Fiction and El Mariachi has long since passed.

Also, don't discount Easter weekend. Doesn't matter if you like religion or not, it's the only Friday of the year where almost every mainstream Christian church has a service, let alone the most heavily attended Sunday of the year. People travel out of town to be with relatives in a variety of places. Thrudvangar also has it right -- this is not the weekend to get a general audience with one of the most demented films in recent memory. Full disclosure: I'm in seminary. That said, I've seen all of QT's material and a good chunk of RR's, and I may catch it on DVD. But there's a difference between films like PF and EM, which made the very best of the pulpy genres from which they came, and films that wallow in those genres without moving beyond it.

comment #42

Devin Faraci says ...

"The Weinsteins must be Jewish."

This is the best thing I have read on the internet yet.

comment #43

D.Z. says ...

"It's a blue and cloudy Saturday morning for poor Harvey Weinstein"

Let's be honest, Jeff. Does anyone here really feel sorry for Harvey?

"Once again, a tasty hip-popcorn movie that a lot of big-city critics and urban types are having a great old time with proved a little too hip for the room when it came to suburban slow-boaters."

If that were the case, Kill Bill and Sin City would have failed, too.

"But to say the Rodriguez is better than the Tarantino...my God!"

He knows how to shoot action scenes.

"We're really and truly living in the United States of Hong Kong -- a sprinkling of sophisticated urban havens surrounded on all sides by a massive Gorilla Nation. Two different planets, two different worlds...the high and the low...hip urbanity vs. the mentality of the mall."

That book you recommended called "Rebels on a Sandlot" indicates that Quentin isn't really "urban", Jeff.

"The Weinstein Co. hasn't had any hits since the last Scary Movie,"

And they split the profits on that one with Di$ney. I know, I know. They are so fucked! Without Eisner, they're nothing.

comment #44

jeffmcm says ...

"red-staters like me come to NYC and fuck incredibly hot girls who love our accents, while faded, washed-up never-has-beens like him probably have to settle for 53 year old divorcees who look like an aged Shelley Duvall in Annie Hall.

I suggest to my pussy urban brethren on these posts that you at least try to fake a Southern accent when you go out in NYC. You'd be amazed how many girls will immediately respond, and say they're tired of metrosexual urban fags."

I hate you so much for being a blaring asshole every time you post, but I have to admit that your posts do put a smile on my face based on how unironically, completely unselfconsciously babyish you sound.

This is a completely genuine suggestion: I would be thoroughly entertained if you would start a blog consisting of you reporting on your conquests of New York city women, how easy they are to score, and how stupid and cunty you find all of them. This could be your ticket to fame and fortune.

comment #45

Heli0tr0pe says ...

Right on - NYCBusybody, you are a true redneck shitwit in every sense of the word, and your every utterance here does more to prove the essential stupidity of "red-staters" than anything I could ever say. Really, why do you even hang out here with us 53-year-old losers? Why not start your own super-awesome red-state hot-NY-broad-fucking locker-room blog? (You could cover NASCAR too!)

The fact that you're here at all leads me to believe all this NY broad-fucking - like whenever you want, damn straight, cuz yer all cool and Southern and stuff - you're always hollerin' about might all be in your nearly-hollow head anyway. Give it a rest, dumbass.

comment #46

Noah says ...

NYCBusybody, which bars do you go to when you pick up these chicks? I live here, we could meet up and maybe go gay-bashing or something. But, when you say you go to NYC, do you mean Manhattan or do you pick up your chicks in Staten Island?

comment #47

Devin Faraci says ...

NYCBusybody, what's the going rate for an hour with the incredibly hot girls you fuck?

comment #48

Heli0tr0pe says ...

PS: "Just saying you're patriotic is like saying you have a big cock. If you have to say it, chances are it's not true." -- Bill Maher

comment #49

Noah says ...

Also, NYCBusybody, are you sure these are "chicks"? Because to someone who doesn't live here, I imagine some of those trannies in Chelsea could be quite convincing.

comment #50

Pelham123 says ...

I really expected this to be a big weekend for "Grindhouse" and those low numbers are a real surprise. But, since I've read some of the posts here about why they may be so low -- length of the film(s), # of screens, and Easter weekend (duh!) -- it makes more sense. Still, the word of mouth on this and, yes, the critical response, has been out of this world (unlike the previous internet-only-hype of "Snakes on a Plane".) So, I have to believe "Grindhouse" is gonna have serious (machine-gun) legs. I'm off to see it this afternoon where I expect a large crowd (in L.A., where, surprise, we do have an exaggerated take on the movies.)

comment #51

Rob says ...

Please don't feed the homophobic NYCbusybody troll.

comment #52

christian says ...

this prognosis of the film tanking is hilarious. it made the same amount as the shitty ARE WE DONE YET which opened on more screens, it's easter, not even saturday barely and word o mouth will give the film legs. the weinsteins did their all to sell it. and a film that would have a niche audience has found it and beyond.

comment #53

Craig Kennedy says ...

Red state or blue state, urban or rural, at least we all agree NYCBB is a slouching, toxic, slow-witted douche hair. Deep beneath the simian veneer with which he protects himself, I'll bet even he agrees.

comment #54

Heli0tr0pe says ...

Well said, sir - spoken like a true Kennedy!

comment #55

Craig Kennedy says ...

No relation...don't shoot.

comment #56

D.Z. says ...

christian: Even if it has legs, Grindhouse's running time will insure that it barely breaks even here.

comment #57

Heli0tr0pe says ...

Question for NYCDumbAss - Does your well-established stupidity prevent you from considering how the fact that all these hot NYC broads (allegedly) choose to have sex with you...merely proves THEIR OWN stupidity?

If that's too complex for you, I'll put it this way: try fucking a girl who has a brain, and then let us all know how that works out for ya.

comment #58

Chicago48 says ...

the problem is this movie should be in the Landmark art houses FIRST and then roll it out to the neighborhoods. This is an art house movie if ever there was one, I haven't seen it, but just looking at the trailers and the critics' reviews...bad move...art house first, get a buzz and then the neighborhoods. And 3 hours! I swore off 3 hour movies 2 months ago with the Departed. Swore I would never sit through another 2-3/4+ movie again.

comment #59

Spicer says ...

I think the general public has trouble with films that are highly sytlized and I can't imagine a film more highly stylized than Grindhouse. I was trying to explain the concept to a couple of 20somethings at work last night and they couldn't understand why Rod and Tar would want to intentionally make the print scratched and dirty. This may not be a $100 million blockbuster but it will likely be profitable after all is said and done.

comment #60

jimjonesiii says ...

maybe that couple of 20somethings at work thought it was all an useless gimmick.
i mean, who wants to see GCI shots (Planet Terror) in a scratched and dirty print?

comment #61

christian says ...

i'm certain the weinsteins have pre-sold the shit out of this and i'd bank GRINDHOUSE is halfways thru a profit already.

but if anything, the film should have been given a tight, modern grindhouse budget of 5-10 million and then let the filmmakers use their ingenuity. i think DP kills the momentum of the film and a two hour GRINDHOUSE would have played like a rocket...

it's been so long since i got a real charge out of a film. it's an audacious experiment and we should be happy it was attempted. if only to see MACHETE...see ya at the new beverly!

comment #62

Nick A. says ...

"And Jeff's just angry 'cause red-staters like me come to NYC and fuck incredibly hot girls who love our accents"

Yeah, RIGHT. Manhattan is something like 90% liberal or liberal-leaning. Most "incredibly hot women" on this island would rather spit in the face of a Bush-voter than touch him.

Keep masturbating, NYCbusybody. I suspect you spend ten hours a day curled over it like a dead leaf (to steal an apt quote).

comment #63

Hallick says ...

"I think the general public has trouble with films that are highly stylized and I can't imagine a film more highly stylized than Grindhouse."

"300" wasn't highly stylized?!

The weird thing is how "Death Proof" is mostly unstylized and looks like a regular (no scratches) movie for the majority of its running time.

comment #64

Walter Sobchak says ...

My, Heli0tr0pe. It sounds like you're quite the snippy kitty today. I don't recall bringing politics into this issue, except perhaps in reference to the old red state/blue state thing. Either way I'm glad I could provide you with a spring board for that angry (but beaten to death) politcal rant of yours. (Fox Noise Channel! Swift Boats! Impeachment Because of Blowjobs! Stolen Elections! Etc.! Arrrgggg!!!) You got one thing right, though. I did live in the midwest, and I can promise you that I get just as annoyed when people there characterize my new hometown of Los Angeles as a modern day Gomorrah "filled with homos, wierdos, dope-smokers and coke-snorting whores". (not that there aren't many of the above, but hey, who's counting?)
In general, I'm bored by constant, simple generalizations. (oft employed by Herr Wells)

Perhaps states should keep in mind their reputation in future elections. Choose wisely who you vote for. A couple hundred votes either way could not only decide who the next president is, it will more importantly decide whether your state will be entirely labeled as a home for uni-brow, moronic, gun-toting hillbillies or a home to swishy, gay-loving, Chardonnay-sipping, America-hating Communists. (I'm talking to you, Ohio!)

By the way, I meant to say "Ginsburg". Perhaps you were refering to beat poet Allen Ginsberg when you "corrected" me. Silly simpleton. I think most people here realize I was referring to Victor Ginsburg, co-author of the indespensible text "Complex Carbohydrates - Methods in Enzymology" (with N. Kaplan, N. Colowick and E. Neufeld - Academic Press - 1966)

Oh yeah, and while you're at it, bite me.

comment #65

Heli0tr0pe says ...

Be careful what you wish for, darling...I know you better than you think.

comment #66

Mr. Muckle says ...

You're right, cjKennedy. I forgot about drive-ins. On the other hand, did you ever go to a drive-in for the movie? If you didn't have a date, you probably weren't there. Then again, I went by myself to see "Night of the Living Dead." And then again again, a friend and I didn't have dates to the prom when we were seniors (our girlfriends' parents wouldn't let them go) so we went to the drive-in in my dad's pickup. The film was "Lolita." We didn't get it.

Still, my point about "Grindhouse" being a blowup of adolescent nostalgia might still hold. But really, do you have nostalgia for the films or nostalgia for your teenage girlfriend? Me, I could do without the former and better with the latter if it had to be done over.

comment #67

Heli0tr0pe says ...

PS, Sobchak - If you really, really want someone to bite you, I'd ask your fellow red-state closet-case NYCBusybody. Sump'm tells me he'd be much obliged for the chance!

comment #68

frankbooth says ...

JD and jimjonesiii make a very good point. Why the high-tech, big-budget approach to recreating cheap trash? I wish they'd done a Good German and used Seventies film stock, rear-screen projection, sheep guts and latex. They had Savini on hand, for chrissake!

If the bottom falls out and QT can't get funding, it may be a blessing. He can use RR's facilities and work fast and cheap, the way his heroes did. If he didn't take 4 years to make a movie, the pressure wouldn't be so high, and I think he'd benefit from the relative freedom.

Finally, (and I hate myself for even responding) I can't help but wonder -- does NYC fuck these women before or after he kills them?

comment #69

Heli0tr0pe says ...

HAH - perfect, Frankie! That's a big LOL.

Too bad NYCBB is down in the basement (aka, the dead hooker processing plant) to read all the too-kind things people are saying about him up here!

comment #70

frankbooth says ...

Heli,

Nah, he posts and then sits back and basks in the attention, which is why I hate even acknowledging him. There's a good chance that he's a teenager living at home, and if his spelling were worse, I'd suspect him of being our old friend Hicksville from Poland's blog.

He does know how to shove a stick in the hornet's though, an attribute he shares with our own Mr. Welles.

comment #71

Walter Sobchak says ...

Listen, Tim, I mean Heli0tr0pe (numbers in place of letters? how cool!).... you're a waste of time. Besides, how did I wind up on the same team as that nut-job NYCBusybody? (why you people even bother is beyond me). He's the D.Z. to my jeffmcm.
And such political vitriol. Is this Hollywood Elsewhere or the Daily Kos? (ask your doctor about Vitriol...side effects include dizziness, bleed-out and coronary implosion)

By the way Frank Booth, I promise not to fucking look at you during "Candy Colored Clown".

comment #72

Craig Kennedy says ...

Mr. Muckle, I was 6 or 7 during my drive-in years so there was no teenage action to speak of (come to think of it there wasn't all that much in my teenage years either...), but yeah, I have fond memories of the likes of Dirty Mary Crazy Larry, Gone in 60 Seconds and Death Race 2000. I'm guessing my age at that time actually supports your broader point about the overall inanity of Grindhouse, but I do believe there's a core audience of 30-40 somethings who will get a kick out of it as I expect to this evening.

comment #73

christian says ...

GRINDHOUSE made me pine not only for my ealy moviegoing daze but for my austin time at the alamo. i really love what these guys tried even if it doesn't totally work and i hope they make more using the budgets that would make them real grindhousers...this is a fever dream of a film and at least has already attained cult status.

comment #74

FrankSennett says ...

I live in the red eastern half of Washington and went to see a "Grindhouse" matinee today at a multiplex. Fewer than 10 people in the audience. Stopped by Pottery Barn to pick up a birthday present on my way out. Clerk asked me what movie I saw. When I told her, she said, "My husband and I were thinking of seeing that. What did you think?" When I started talking about both films she said, "Oh, it's two different movies? That's why the commercials didn't make any sense." So I think your marketing source is dead on. This was from someone who was thinking of seeing the movie, and she had no idea.

Also, I'll be first in line when they make "Machete"...

comment #75

Stephe96 says ...

Just got back from 'Grindhouse.' My 2 cents: the first segment, "Planet Terror" goes on WAY too long. It's not all that bad, but...it's basically one joke told over and over again. It doesn't really build to anything, and there are too many characters and too much plot to keep track of. (I know, I know...those cheap 'grindhouse' movies didn't have plots, either. But I'm just saying...)

On the other hand, I loved the 'Death Proof' segment. So there you go...

comment #76

nemo says ...

Better to stay out of that red-state/blue-state food fight, but even the so-called red states are not the cultural wastelands some people here are making them out to be. In the past week in Iowa I've gone to theaters to see "California Split", "Beckett", and "Lives of Others".

The biggest problem with living in Iowa City is that art films, foreign films, and revivals don't play here until a couple of months after they've played in New York or California. If you get impatient, you have to drive over to Chicago.

But it's mainly in the bigger cities and college towns of the Midwest that you find much cultural life going on. Same as anywhere else, including the East Coast, the West Coast, Europe, the whole rest of the world.

comment #77

D.Z. says ...

christian: "i'm certain the weinsteins have pre-sold the shit out of this and i'd bank GRINDHOUSE is halfways thru a profit already."

Not much of a profit.

Hallick: ""300" wasn't highly stylized?"

300 wasn't some wannabe chick flick masquerdaing as a b-movie.

frank: "Why the high-tech, big-budget approach to recreating cheap trash?"

What pisses me off is the way they tried to modernize it by having people text each other, and even inserting a reference to Osama in the film.

Anyway, Death Proof was the first movie in which someone's cell phone went off, and I thanked them for interrupting the boring conversations in the film. Even the asshole parent who brought their screaming child there saved me from the monotony of Quentin's awful pacing.

comment #78

Ju-osh says ...

I hate to be one of the schmucks that asks for logic in a movie that so clearly isn't attempting to be logical (an enjoyable trait, I might add), but why -- during the second car chase -- did Zoe Bell never try to climb back into the car through the same window she climbed out of? There were three or four times where Stuntman Mike's car took the lead. Why didn't the girl from Rent slow the Vanishing Point car down so Zoe could Duke Boys it back in to the vehicle? It just seemed like such an obvious thing to do, I kept wondering why she never even tried.

comment #79

Ju-osh says ...

p.s.
D.Z., considering how much you hate Tarantino, I'm curious as to why you even bothered to go? Did you hope to like Grindhouse, or were you just making sure that you had answers for any pro-Q.T. Grindhouse-related stuff written in the future? Answer me honestly, please. I'm not trying to goad you.

comment #80

christian says ...

DZ just gave qt 10 bucks. what a champ.

comment #81

rocco says ...

NYCDB must be king of the hate-fuck...the type of guy who fucks women not for physical or emotional pleasure but for the psychological charge he obtain froms their unwitting humiliation...pretty damn close to serial killer material...must have had a mother like Perry Smith's...

...but I digress...

...I don't see the poor box office as a rejection of some great movement in cinema. Even you didn't think it was all that terrific. This has been marketed primarily as a horror film, and how often does any horror flick draw in the masses? Especially in the spring? On, yes, Easter weekend? Stupid fucking marketing campaign, that's all it is Jeff, it's not the TGIFriday's crowd saying fuck-you to anything progressive or enlightening. Seriously, about the only bit of consensus I've heard is in regards to the chase sequence...one scene...twelve bucks? That's got "Long Wait" in my Netflix queue written all over it .

comment #82

rocco says ...

...and I don't disagree with Jeff one bit about a cultural and intellectual divide in this country...not one fucking iota. He's spot on...there are those of us who question our existence and the world around us, savor good food and drink, experience new things, and absorb as much art and knowledge as we possibly can before the candle burns out...and there are those, many more of those, who willfully and happily drink Miller Lite and call 'Baby Geniuses' a good family movie. When he's right he's right...

...my issue is when he tries to correlate the dichotomy with political ideology rather than the true underlying causes of education and economics.

comment #83

Gaydos says ...

I smell a sequel...to the recent musings about critics and the public. First "Zodiac" goes down, now "Grindhouse." While those wolfbane films like "Wild Hogs," "300," "Norbit," etc. continue rake in the moolah.

comment #84

D.Z. says ...

Ju-osh: "D.Z., considering how much you hate Tarantino, I'm curious as to why you even bothered to go?"

I didn't know he could fuck up such a simple concept, but he succeeded on every level.

christian: Actually, $11.25, but at least it was for Grauman's and not those price-gouging parasites running Pacific Theatres. Anyway, I saved bus fare, because the machines were broken, so I didn't pay as much as I could have today.

del: "This has been marketed primarily as a horror film, and how often does any horror flick draw in the masses? Especially in the spring?"

The Hills Have Eyes remake did ok...

comment #85

D.Z. says ...

Gaydos: It's not just the critics who are bewildered in this situation, but the QT fanboys who think everything he touches is gold, and don't realize he's a one-trick plagiarist.

comment #86

christian says ...

btw, john flynn, director of ROLLING THUNDER and THE OUTFIT passed away weds.

he had just appeared at the new beverly to present ROLLING THUNDER with his son. RIP.

comment #87

LOTGA says ...

I think Christian is on to something when he mentioned that the three hour running time means less shows per day. The theatre I work for has Grindhouse play one show a night in every theatre in the Atlantic region except for one which is showing it on two screens.

comment #88

Ju-osh says ...

^^^^S'true. The biggest theatre in my area is only playing it three times a day due to the running time, and only on one screen due to the prohibitive rating. I know of a few people that didn't go because they hadn't bought tickets in advance and figured that it would be sold out. Turns out, the last show Friday night (8:30 pm) was only 3/4 full.

comment #89

NYCBusybody says ...

Re: the Bill Maher thing, I never said I have a big cock. It's rather average. I just get to use it a lot, that's all.

And all the silly, childish anger in response to my post is pretty typical of jealousy, no? I imagine all of you to simply be guys in urban areas who AREN'T getting laid, and how dare this guy from a red-state have actual game and be able to bang these girls? Silly children.

And if you choose to believe that I'm paying for it, or making it all up, awesome. Why should I care? I was just trying to help my fellas out, but if you choose to be petulant in retort, no rose off my nose.

comment #90

NYCBusybody says ...

And just to show there's no hard feelings, I'll even give some location tips: F.I.T. is a good place to meet girls who are tired of knowing only gay/metrosexual men, you just have to know how to get it out of them. And Williamsburg is a jackpot - smart, liberal girls, many of whom are sick to death of every male looking the same in that area...go in, throw down a Southern accent (fake it if you need to), and I honestly kid you not, see what happens.

comment #91

Craig Kennedy says ...

Listen to me carefully NYCBB, you sick fuck. I'm confident the hayseeds in the Dixie backwater you repeatedly claim to have sprung from are grateful you've been culled from their ranks and have washed up in the big city where your sad behavior can go mostly unnoticed. Like all large urban environments, New York has plenty of self-loathing emotional train wrecks who fall easy prey to diseased misogynists like yourself; women who've been shattered by abuse at the hands of daddy, Uncle Frank or the creepy family friend; women who believe mistreatment is the status quo. Make no mistake, however: the fact you've honed a knack for separating the weak and wounded from the protection of the herd for your casual victimization does not make you special. That you would make a habit of such behavior is sadly typical; that you would brag about it like it’s some kind of bravado merit badge is just funny.

You’re a punch line and I’m not sure which angle is funnier: that the bragging is based in reality or that you’re just making shit up under the delusion that someone might find it impressive. If you’re for real, I only pray you use protection in the unlikely event that you’re not the blank shooting Darwinian dead end I suspect you to be. The thought of a brood of NYCBB-spawn slithering forward to pollute future generations frightens me.

comment #92

Heli0tr0pe says ...

"Smart, liberal girls," NYCBB? Huh. So being liberal is a good thing when it applies to chicks then? I get it. Well, good to know you stand firm on your bedrock conservative principles, there.

I guess it makes sense, though - if a girl is conservative, it follows that her intelligence is in question. (Unless she's Ann Coulter, in which case you know it's a tranny.)

PS: WalterSobchak - no idea who "Tim" is. All I meant is that I know your type - i.e., all those kind, gentle right-wingers who never, ever spew vitriol, and have nothing but love and concern for their fellow man. Bite me back, bitch.

comment #93

CambridgeCat says ...

I don't know what's funnier, NYCBB (the internet's number one playboy) and the character she's created, or that people actually get legitimately mad at her.

comment #94

Heli0tr0pe says ...

"Her," CambridgeCat? An interesting twist...lemme guess: NYCBB is actually Ann Coulter, right?

comment #95

CambridgeCat says ...

I don't know, NYCBB lacks Coulter's subtlety.

comment #96

Noah says ...

Smart, liberal girls don't go to FIT or live in Williamsburg. Drunk, hipster chicks? Anybody can get laid if you go to MisShapes dude.

comment #97

Walter Sobchak says ...

Hey Christian. You say that "Rolling Thunder" director John Flynn passed away this past Wednesday?

Well, I realize I'm several days late on this, (damn!), but let me just say that he was a talentless hack and here are some of the reasons he won't be missed very much.....

comment #98

christian says ...

cjk you go!

comment #99

Walter Sobchak says ...

Come on, people we're nearly to 100! This will be post 99. Who wants to send us through the century mark? How about some pot-stirring crazy talk, NYCBB? How about some wordy replies, Noah? How about some quotation filled, Marxist retorts, D.Z.? Perhaps some sensible, movie-related discussion from the likes of dellbomber or nemo? jeffmcm never is one to let a thread go unattended. Someone, pull the trigger!

comment #100

Noah says ...

Walter smells.

comment #101

JB Moore says ...

I just hope NYCBB isn't a Texan. We don't need anymore morons repping our state.

comment #102

Walter Sobchak says ...

A non-wordy curveball from Noah for #100. Didn't see it coming, yet brief and to the point. I like it. Now, on to newer, less posty threads!

comment #103

Heli0tr0pe says ...

Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

comment #104

D.Z. says ...

Walter: I did find the so-called theme of "girl power" to be a pretense to hide the underlying misogyny behind the production. But then I felt that way about Kill Bill, too.

comment #105

Walter Sobchak says ...

Damn, D.Z. When talking about movies (as opposed to the evils of Western capitalism) you actually make some good points. I'm not quite sure why you directed that last comment towards me since I haven't seen "Grindhouse" or for that matter entered into the fray of debate over it but I did see "Kill Bill" and I think you may be onto something there. (and I'm not even a feminist) In other words, it's okay to show a hot chick getting tortured and killed if it's at the hands of another hot chick.
Either way, I'm kind of tired of the "tough chick" thing anyway, if only for the fact that it's become a cliche. It was bad-ass when Trinity kicked the shit out of everyone in the original "Matrix", especially after the cop called her a "little girl". But by the time we got to Drew Barrymore beating a pack of big guys up in "Charlies Angels" it had gotten pretty tired and ridiculous. (btw, it was showing on an airplane...don't give me chaff for seeing it....and Lucy's a babe, too)

comment #106

christian says ...

if you watch the scenes with the girls in HALLOWEEN they all come across likable and much more real. i think qt overheard too much of the girl's dialogue in la. seriously. i wish he had let go of putting his film quotes into the movie. it just sounds like a parody.

i still think GH will do fine. it's a cool oddball. i'll go see it again.

comment #107

D.Z. says ...

Walter: The female action hero gimmick's been milked since Xena and Buffy, but what made the Matrix work is it had actual choeography. I even liked the fighting in Charlie's Angels, and didn't really expect much from the script, because the show wasn't anything spectacular in the first place. (Yeah, I know that's an understatement...)
Still, someone actually thought people saw the film because of the actresses; and now genre films are more about "character development" than action. So it's no wonder that 300's the only hit thus far this year, because it gives you exactly what you expect.

comment #108

Heli0tr0pe says ...

So, on the subject of rockin' good chick fights, I guess I'm well off the rez when I bring up the Joan Chen-vs.-Diane Lane contretemps at the thrilling climax of "Judge Dredd"?

comment #109

Craig Kennedy says ...

Not a big fan of females inflicting violence upon one another. Sign me up for a quality lesbian scene though a la Mulholland Dr. (stepping down quietly from my earlier 'respect for women' soap box)

comment #110

rocco says ...

NYCB...No, it's not jealousy, it's amusement...I'm from NY and the only accent I ever needed was my native one...cheap tricks to pick up girls? Fake accents? Wow. Well, I guess a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...especially when god failed to bless you with a nice face and winning personality...

Guys who boast of their conquests repeatedly and unsolicited, whether their claims are fabricated or real, can be defined by one word: insecure.

comment #111

scooterzz says ...

dear santa,
please send my pal nycb a copy of 'midnight cowboy'....he def needs positive role models..
thanx,
scoot

comment #112

latex costume says ...

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