comment #1

JD says ...

This is the most level-headed -- and yet still opinionated and, as I'm sure we'll see, divisive -- thing Jeff has written in a long, long time. Good stuff.

comment #2

iamanerd says ...

I agree with many parts of your comments, Jeff, but I think we do have to sit back and think rationally about things in our culture. Guns or no guns. We assume certain risks simply by having our freedoms. We allow public use of public space.

This student could have constructed a bomb that could have destroyed the whole dorm from simple, available components from most hardware and grocery stores in our country. No lobby can be held responsible for that. True, we have too many available weapons. However, we trust our fellow citizens not to have a meth lab in the basement that will explode and set the whole neighborhood on fire. We trust the contractor not to bring dynamite or explosives home from the jobsite and blow up our car or house. We trust the reservist who lives next door not to bring an M-16 home from the base and shoot up where he works.

We hope (whether it is faith based or not) that Americans won't take the freedom and access to public space, items for sale in our capitalistic system, and do what this guy did.

It is frustrating and confusing when someone violates our laws and assumptions about common decency and use of public space/trust. Sadly, from Timothy McVeigh to Ted Kacynski to this guy, people abuse that trust. That seems to make it truly tragic to me because the consequences are so severe and dire and the actions that cause them seem so fleeting and ridiculous. People need to think. We need to learn to deal with our aggression (especially males) and emotions in this country. We live too close together and have access to too many dangerous things to afford more of this type of behavior.

comment #3

Joe B. says ...

Thanks for saying pretty much what I'd been thinking. HORRIBLE tragedy, obvious serious whack-job, and a frightening ease at assembling an arsenal. Can't wait to see how the NRA, etc, spin this one.

I think that YES, adults should be able to own a gun, but that we also need to crawl through all sorts of fair and well-managed red tape to get one. Gun ownership, sure. Gun control, YES.

comment #4

filmradar.com says ...

I am a Christian who is a LEFT WING LIBERAL (yes they DO exist Jeff) and I hate the NRA.

comment #5

Rich S. says ...

Another monumentally complex and senseless tragedy reduced to simplistic sound bites and political talking points before the victims’ blood is even dry. And you managed to get in another shot at Bush and Christianity, to boot. Bravo.

comment #6

RoyBatty says ...

Not sure there was an overwhelming demand or need for you to expound upon this, to be honest. Perhaps when it begins to cause reactions and effects within the industry, yes. The day Joel Silver announces that he will not produce one more foot of film that glorifies and fetishizes gun violence, sure. Or Mike Binder emails in to say that his next film is going to deal with the impact a gun death has to an individual, sure again.

Because the slippery slope this site is always sliding down is when it delves into issues best left to the political boards and more germane pundits. Not to mention, it's nice to have a place that isn't wallowing along with every other media outlet in the Big Story of the Day.

comment #7

Monty says ...

Rich S.: What do you expect us to do? Is there a mandated period during which we should not be allowed to make the quite reasonable and obvious assumption that this tragedy and needless loss of life was most likely a direct result of the ease with which firearms can be obtained in the US? Can we not start to discuss the ridiculous theism of the President at a time when we need to be very clear that we as people hold the cards over how well we should treat people, not a God.

I absolutely agree that our thoughts and sympathies should be with the friends and family of the victims of this incident. I think that it was a terrible event and I've certainly been thinking of those poor people since it happened yesterday. But that doesn't for a second mean that I'm going to disregard my thoughts and opinions on why that happened - if anything, we owe it to those people to bear them in mind when, hopefully, some good will come of this, and gun laws will be tightened. We aren't forgetting these people in order to gain points or to politicise, we're doing it because those people are dead. Nothing is going to change that. The least we can do is make sure they didn't die in vain, and that their tragic deaths can lead to some much-needed changes.

comment #8

BNick says ...

How quickly we turn our ire away from the one solely responsible for this tragedy, the killer.

In seeking to inject meaning into someting so meaningless, we (Americans, the media, politicians, whatever) try to make our pre-existing narratives fit the story or the crime. It's the gun nuts. It's Hollywood. It's video games.

Ultimately people are responsible for their own lives. I'm sure we'll find out more about this kid in the next few days, but assuming he was just a troubled psychopath, it would have been nearly impossible to stop him from harming people in some way, regardless of the availability of firearms (indeed, as iamanerd pointed out, homemade bombs could have produced even more carnage).

Do we know for a fact that more gun laws could have prevented this incident for certain? I say no. Should we have more thorough background checks and/or psychological examinations for people looking to buy these things? After reading about how easily this guy obtained these guns and how troubled everyone else seemed to think he was, I think the answer is self-evident.

But again, it is important that the focus and the blame be placed squarely on the shooter. The vast, vast majority of "gun nuts" have not, do not, and will never do this sort of thing.

comment #9

Mr. Muckle says ...

Can't disagree about Bush. To listen to him is to have your psyche poisoned within moments. So I never listen to him any more. What did people do before remote control?

But, also, if you're going to discuss religion and the ultimate nature of reality (which is worth doing, natch), it's actually not so easy.

There is a scripture about the Buddha's past lives, in one of which he was known as the Bodhisattva "Never Despise." In spite of the perverted views and actions of many he encountered, he would repeat to himself, "I must not despise; he will one day be Buddha."

I'm not so good or wise as that, though, and certainly I flirt with contempt for the same people you mention here. Still, to state it so baldly might not be useful. It is said there is a spark of good in even the most wicked. I don't know if that's true, but not knowing makes me temper my responses.

On the other point, it is not conclusive that the ultimate nature of reality is exclusively impersonal. I respect the point of view of some to the effect that it cannot be limited and circumscribed in that way. It can also be personal, although all personal interactions are temporary.

Such sophistication is not generally credited to religionists in America, though. But in some way, we might as well criticize children for being children. To be a child is unavoidable at some point. It is not defined by chronological age. Who knows how many years or how many lives it takes to grow out of childishness?

But as far as the laws of the "whole" and our particle of it, it is apparent that hate breeds hate, contempt breeds contempt, and so on. So generally it serves us best to swallow our bile and not let it get out of hand.

comment #10

vansmith says ...

alot of this stuff happens in april when you have the sun in aries and then the moon goes into aries, overheard an astrologer today discussing how aries is ruled by mars the planet of aggression and action and how the alignment can be the tipping point for alot of these people, new moon in aries yesterday shook this unstable guy to the core, thought it was an interesting observation...

comment #11

OddDuck says ...

I'm sorry, but the "bomb" argument is a loser. It takes less ambition, effort and time to buy a gun in Virginia than it does to research, assemble and detonate a bomb.

I could be wrong about this, but from what the news is saying about Virginia's gun laws, it look like it's easier to get a gun than a drivers license there. Does that sound alright to anyone?

comment #12

Josh Massey says ...

I'm curious how this affects certain films approaching release. Shoot 'Em Up springs to mind.

comment #13

Mr. Muckle says ...

vansmith, that's an interesting point. There's this from The Huffingtonpost:

"Maybe we should shut the country down for one week in April each year. From the 15-22nd, perhaps, or the 16th-23rd. This month marks the saddest days in American history. Yes, I know, April bore the beginning of the American Revolution, but it also holds the anniversaries of the Waco siege (April 19th), the Oklahoma City bombing (April 19th), Columbine (April 20th), and the massacre at Virginia Tech (April 16th)."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-leo/april-is-the-cruelest-mon_b_46065.html

comment #14

romeoisbleeding says ...

Like the poster above said.. I am a Christian too and a left wing liberal and I hate the NRA too. And I am glad you posted your thoughts Jeffrey. Thanks.

comment #15

iamanerd says ...

OddDuck,
My whole point is that it is incredibly easy to make a bomb in a country like ours where the materials alone are all legal and can be purchased just about anywhere. I'm not gonna share recipes here because any idiot can get them for himself online. All I meant was that whether it is a gun, bomb, etc., we have to accept a portion of our society will abuse that freedom. Ted Kacynski left one of his devices to look like trash. The first person by it would ignite the thing. The sort of irrational, anti-social thinking is unavoidable since we live with people. It becomes more unavoidable in a society as open as ours.
It only takes one in a million gun owners or sellers to make all guns look bad. I chose to focus on the nuts pulling the trigger. I am not a fan of Bush, lobbyists, politicians with their double speak, and the NRA. However, I won't lay the blame for this on them or the movie industry. I put it at the gunman's feet, and I hope he acted alone. Some people are bad, and bad people have an easy time in our culture. It is a catch-22 that I have to accept, even after days like yesterday, because I won't trade the freedom that he abused for anything else.

comment #16

D.Z. says ...

"The pro-gun lobbyists are the principal bad guys, of course, but a certain roundabout responsibility must fall on the entertainment industry. What money-making activity, after all, is more soaked in blood and shootings and all manner of horrific death than movies and video games? Movies have repeatedly sold the idea of the potency of firearms. They have certainly dramatized the scenario of a lone good guy (i.e., one who's been wronged in some way) settling a score by shooting a lot of bad guys. We all love suspense and good action, but there has to be something wrong with you to really enjoy depictions of callous sadism and homicidal bloodlust."

Didn't you just praise a Tarantino film a few weeks ago for practically the same thing, Jeff?

iamanerd: "This student could have constructed a bomb that could have destroyed the whole dorm from simple, available components from most hardware and grocery stores in our country. No lobby can be held responsible for that."

Actually, the NRA lobbied against being able to track down explosives. And people like that usually don't have the patience to build bombs, which is why they resort ot guns in the first place.

"We trust the reservist who lives next door not to bring an M-16 home from the base and shoot up where he works."

I don't, unless they've never been to war.

BNick: "How quickly we turn our ire away from the one solely responsible for this tragedy, the killer."

Yeah, the vendor who sold him the artillery without blinking an eye really is in it for the good of society, and not just to make a quick buck off of carnage and fear-mongering.

comment #17

cobhome says ...

me too - Christian - left wing - and vehemently opposed to a government which is owned by lobbying groups such as the NRA - look - people have the right to organize in groups to advocate for things they want - the issue here is not the NRA - it is the continuous unwillingnes of our elected representatives to pass gun control legislation because they are owned by the NRA - and any number of other lobbying groups - you want gun control?? universal health care? a responsible foreign policy and energy policy? then what we need is publically funded elctions - no more interest groups owning the government through campaign contributions. Good post Jeff.

comment #18

Joe Leydon says ...

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

VIRGINIA TECH KILLER SEUNG-HUI CHO PAID $571 FOR GUNS AND AMMUNITION AT
A ROANOKE, VA. GUN STORE ON MARCH 13. THE OWNER TELLS ABC NEWS CHO
PAID BY CHECK IN AN ENTIRELY LEGAL TRANSACTION.

comment #19

jeffmcm says ...

Everyone ignore DZ and his attempt to turn the conversation to Tarantino AGAIN.

comment #20

Rich S. says ...

BNick partially answered for me. I do not object to Jeffrey's noting the tragedy or even putting it in terms personal to himself. I object to him instantly shoehorning it into his own preconceptions, which have been exhaustively detailed here over the years, only a little more than a day after the tragedy happened.

An example: Yesterday afternoon, as the authorities were still sifting through the evidence and everything was chaos, Bryan Ross of ABC News (who I ordinarily respect) reported that "this incident is sure to revive debate on the lapsed assault weapons ban, one provision of which was the prohibition of high-capacity clips for handguns." Ross even acknowledged at the time that there was no evidence that the shooter had used such clips. I don't think such evidence has been revealed even today.

But Ross had already decided that his angle was going to be the lapsed ban on assault weapons. The trouble was, it was obvious even as of yesterday that the shooter had not used assault weapons. But, in what passes for "journalism" these days, Ross was bound-and-determined that this was going to be his angle anyway. (The trouble is, two men, Harris and Klebold used assault weapons and killed 13. This guy used two handguns and killed 32. So there may be no correlation.)

Jeff's post struck me similarly. It makes a lot of sweeping generalizations that fit into preconceived notions. The shooter was apparently South Korean. How does the immigration debate figure into this? He was an English major. How long before they find his copy of Catcher in the Rye? These are silly extremes, but I think they say the same thing.

And then, for him to take a gratuitous shot at Bush for offering Christian comfort to the families of the victims, well that was a bit much. You don't like the guy. Fine, we get it. You don't like religion. Fine, we get that, too. But I think to everyone other than irrational Bush haters, it makes Jeff look petty, insensitive and mean. And it certainly diminishes the rest of his argument.

comment #21

iamanerd says ...

D.Z.,
You missed my point. I know that it takes some patience to construct a bomb. My point is that if someone possessed that patience, you don't need standard/monitored explosives. I'm not pointing a finger at the NRA, but I won't give them any credit either. I'm just saying that I can buy what I need for a really powerful bomb at Wal-mart and the local Chevron station if I really wanted to. I could also go to the feed store like Tim McVeigh and do some serious damage with some perfectly legal fertilizer that the NRA or anyone else is going to monitor.
Even if you don't trust the reservist/active duty people in your community, how much sleep do you honestly lose thinking about those in your community, neighborhood, apartment complex, etc. who have weapons? You don't. We all don't. We trust those around us not to build pipe bombs or act like Columbine or the Chicago Haymarket bombing or OK City. We believe that folks will be responsible.
My point is this: it is a miracle (even if you don't believe in those things) that this hasn't happened more often. Which is sad and tragic.
We thought that there was enough fire in the bellies of people to change things after Columbine. How many years ago was that? And NOTHING has changed.

comment #22

Larry says ...

Sorry to intrude into the argument with some actual facts, but: Violent crime has been going down in America for over 20 years, while it's been rising in Europe. You're more likely to be a victim of crime in Paris or London nowadays than New York. You're more likely to be confronted personally by a criminal in much of Europe than in America (partly because over there they have no fear of being shot).

comment #23

Larry says ...

Sorry to intrude into the argument with some actual facts, but: Violent crime has been going down in America for over 20 years, while it's been rising in Europe. You're more likely to be a victim of crime in Paris or London nowadays than New York. You're more likely to be confronted personally by a criminal in much of Europe than in America (partly because over there they have no fear of being shot).

comment #24

iamanerd says ...

Yes, crime is down in America, but we have a school shooting with at least 33 dead at freakin' VA Tech, so those facts trump the chances of you being mugged on a London subway any day. I can handle being mugged or beaten. I'd rather not be shot by a psychopath or jilted lover while trying to go to college on a Monday morning in BFE Virginia.

comment #25

James says ...

I'm one of the posters who has opined that this blog is primarily about movies and that I'd appreciate it if some of Jeff's critics didn't expect him to cover every aspect of human existence.

That said, I appreciate this post and found it kind of new-media cool how HE readers found a way to discuss this event yesterday on a thread about a stupid Pirate movie.

However, if Jeff is still willing to expand his purview in response to reader demand, I've got a request: How about more coverage of all the high-quality TV out there? Anybody with me on this?

comment #26

D.Z. says ...

Rich: "Ross even acknowledged at the time that there was no evidence that the shooter had used such clips. I don't think such evidence has been revealed even today."

He didn't need high-powered clips, since he had two pistols to correct any misses and increase the casualties.

"But I think to everyone other than irrational Bush haters, it makes Jeff look petty, insensitive and mean. And it certainly diminishes the rest of his argument."

Compared to the comments from talk radio and FOX news hosts the American public have had to subject themselves to, since Bush Sr. became President, Jeff is downright reasonable.

"Even if you don't trust the reservist/active duty people in your community, how much sleep do you honestly lose thinking about those in your community, neighborhood, apartment complex, etc. who have weapons? You don't."

You don't think about it, if you live in some isolated yuppie enclave. But this kind of problem has been going on in ghettoes for years. Hell, it's happening in Darfur. The only reason people care now is because whites are the victims.

comment #27

messiahcomplexio says ...

Maybe its 4 years of constant war, but this really hasn't really hit me in the gut like columbine. I hate to say it, but maybe I've heard 100 dead in car bombing, 50 dead in shootout in Mosque one too many times.

I heard someone say last week was false outrage, this week it's gonna be false trauma.

I think for me it's just burnout.

It scares me that 31 dead doesn't get my heart pumping like I know it should.

comment #28

OddDuck says ...

I'm unfortunately on the same side of this one specific argument as D.Z., but still find his posts on the thread so far to be retarded and useless.

Re: Rich's attack on Brian Ross and D.Z.'s response - I see no problem with Ross bringing up the debate over the assault weapon ban, because you know this incident is going to reawaken (for a brief useless moment) the debate over ALL of our gun laws, and Ross was just recognizing that. That said, D.Z.'s response was just idiotic and irrelevant, and basically devoid of content but full of shit.

D.Z., might I ask, is your offline persona the same as what we see here? If so, do you have any friends?

comment #29

christian says ...

"But I think to everyone other than irrational Bush haters, it makes Jeff look petty, insensitive and mean."

i think bush did that himself with his very first statement on the shootings where he expressed sympathy to the rights of gun owners and then said something about this is what happens when you break the law.

nothing has made me despise bush more than his instant apologia for the gun freaks who think owning a weapon that can empty 20 instant bullets into a human is our god given right.

and everyday the iraqi people die in waves 2 to 3 times more than this. hey, that's war.

and so it goes.

comment #30

Flyertaxi says ...

D.Z. has recently been outed on another message board as being an unemployed 27 year old who attends screening with his mom and still lives with her...probably in the basement, we can safely assume.

He's also been banned for his unhelpful signal-to-noise ratio, which is something that should probably be considered here if anything resembling an intelligent conversation is going to happen without the persistent and sulfuric odor of a fart hanging over everything.

A stock cut-and-paste comeback in 1...2...

comment #31

D.Satterfield says ...

I've been reading for a couple years and just wanted to put my two cents in....

A couple of years ago, there was a shooting at Appalachian Law School located in south-west Virginia, somewhat close to Blacksburg. The shooter was told that he would be suspended for a semester because of his low grades, and the shooter responded by killing the Dean and two others. He also managed to injure three others. News services reported that several students had tackled him and restrained him until the police arrived. This was reported widely, in the Washington Post and other national news services. This "tackling" was reported despite the statements of the students involved. Eventually the shooter recounted the events in court, affirming the statements of the students, that he had dropped the gun when students legally carrying concealed weapons, pulled out their guns and pointed them at him.

I just think it's interesting how this fact was omitted from all the news reports...while no one could have expected students yesterday to respond as the ASL students did, the fact that the media refused to report that students legally carrying guns subdued the shooter in that case, and that the issue of the assault weapon ban was so quickly brought up on CNN and other channels yesterday and today, suggests, at least to me, that a certain point of view is being forced into the reporting of these tragedies...

I'm sure either way things will be different after this. I'm a Virginia resident myself, and the only gun I have is an unused hunting rifle left to me by my grandfather. Virginia will have to take a hard look at its gun laws. I just know that from talking to friends and family both, we are all deeply troubled by the seeming artificial injection of political posturing in the reporting of this terrible tragedy at Virginia Tech.

comment #32

Rich S. says ...

But, christian, where does Jeffrey in his post reference the remainder of the statement, as you do? That would have made perfect sense in this context. But he doesn't do that. He takes Bush's reference to God out of that context to make another ad hominem attack on religion.

I'm not even defending religion, just the method used to attack it.

comment #33

mitch says ...

The most disappointing aspect of reading this blog is how the vast majority of HR posters attempt to find blame outside of the perps own hands. The only person responsible for what happened yesterday is Cho Seung-hui.

As for comparisons between countries, crime data (as well as many other forms of data) are stochastic in nature.

comment #34

OddDuck says ...

Mitch, it ain't always either/or. Sometimes there's plenty of blame to go around. We'll never know what Cho Seung-hui would have done had stricter gun laws prevented him from obtaining two guns as easily as he did, but the fact of the matter is our current system enabled him to commit mass murder. In light of yesterday's events, it is entirely appropriate to discuss whether the status quo is worth the cost in lives.

comment #35

BNick says ...

Thanks, Mitch. Nicely put.

We still seem to have some sort of cultural reluctance to assign blame to individuals for the criminal acts they commit, and instead try to abstract the issues to society at large.

Barack Obama today likened the mass murder to Don Imus' remarks and outsourcing, because they're all "violent". This is, of course, nonsense, but it is verbal nonsense in direct response to an act of physical nonsense.

Cho Seung-hui's acts were, literally, nonsensical. So instead of blaming the gun store owner or Congress or Bush, why not just blame him?

Jeff's comments on God are correct, though probably not in the way he thinks. God does not stand in the way of people who choose to commit these unspeakable acts. We have all been given free will. People who believe in God do, however, ultimately believe that he will judge us all for our actions. So yes, he's not directly influencing people's actions, he is "rooting" for us.

Jeff, you belittle religious people for trying to find comfort in God because you believe that if they had any sense, they would know that God doesn't care one way or the other (or, to take your thought to its logical conclusion, that there is no God.) But these people believe that, while God does not directly influence our actions, he does want us to choose to do the right thing. And if, in believing this, some segment of the population choose to try and lead better lives, what exactly is wrong with that?

comment #36

OddDuck says ...

BNick, interesting post, and if Obama really in any way likened the VT shooting to Imus's remarks, then yeah, that's really stupid.

You ask, why not just blame [Cho Seung-hui]? That's a lame question, because it sorta almost insinuates that those bringing up the gun law issue aren't blaming him, which is ridiculous, but more importantly it presumes that there are no other root causes for the event that merit investigation and discussion. When some wacko buys two guns and kills 32 people, it is normal and RIGHT to question whether our current gun laws are serving America well. Yet you're trying to shut that discussion down, it seems. Why?

comment #37

cust71 says ...

I was in college when the Columbine massacre happened, hearing about it after getting back from class, and I was a little stunned. Nearly 10 years later, I see the same thing, and sadly, I have to agree with messiahcomplexio. I think whether it's desensitizing, the "34 dead in car bombing in Iraq" headline that seems to pop up every day, this isn't hitting me like it did back during Columbine. Not that I don't feel bad about it, but man, things are just fucked everywhere, and then this happens. What can you say?

comment #38

nola says ...

the shooter purchased the guns legally. I am no fan of the NRA but I'm sure the shooter would have found a way to carry out his mission.

I don't why people are shocked that there is so much violence in our society. And while some violent crime is going up in europe their cities are still much safer. America was built on violence. Ask the native americans, and what about the people who were brought here against their will for cheap labor which helped America become the super power it is today. I don't think our culture is going to change.

Who knows what caused the shooter to snap? I just feel awful for the poor students and their families.

comment #39

rocco says ...

Bravo Jeff...very nicely written. Even the God stuff is dead-on and captures the utter lunacy of the dichotomy of a passionate/dispassionate God whom so many people worship

...I'm not an NRA guy...fired a .22 once when I was a kid...but I've said in my blog and to friends I think this happens anyway...guns are simply a means...if not an assault weapon a homemade bomb...if not a bomb, a fire in the middle of the night. Nothing can get in the way of a truly determined individual. 9/11? Boxcutters.

comment #40

Dan Revill says ...

The problem is that Wells understands about as much about God as Bush does -which in the Judeo-Christian context that is being used here, is pretty much nothing.
I'm not going to speak for God, nor do I feel this is the time or the place to discuss an omnipotent being who has the power to intervene but chooses not to.
Right now, it's best to let things be. It's a terrible tragedy, and in the end this isn't God's fault or anyone else's, except of course the killer. It's true that we're so quick to offer excuses as to why a person did this or that, because it makes it our problem, when at the end of the day, this was someone who probably had a nervous breakdown - the only responsibility anyone could possibly have is the ignoring of symptoms in this young man's life. And the fact that he was most likely a lonerish type makes it all the more saddening.
If you want to blame society, then blame our ability to shut out our neighbors without a second thought and to ignore the people who truly need our graciousness. We are too used to not being apart of true community. It's disheartening, but it is the truth of the matter. Had someone reached out to this young man, maybe right now, we wouldn't be discussing this...instead dwelling on a popcorn movie's runtime.

I'm living in an age/that mistakes darkness for light
- Arcade Fire

comment #41

Doug says ...

At the very least we need to lower the number of bullets in a clip. If we can't stop shootings maybe we can at least cut down on massacres.

comment #42

le corbeau says ...

You know, I really hoped people would leave this alone here, even if it is a culture blog in some ways, because there's no good argument to be had. As with abortion, both sides are indisputably right in the terms of how they define the question. A fetus IS a human, at least by some early point, it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, and yet women will always have the urge to end pregnancies in their bodies they don't want, and making that harder just increases misery and death. And more guns both lead to killing, and prevent killing-- as James Taranto points out today in the online WSJ, just five years ago a shooter at another Virginia school was disarmed by a passerby with a gun. So none of this is an easy question, and if you have an easy answer for it, you're wrong.

comment #43

mitch says ...

OddDuck; What I wrote is correct. Attempting to redirect Cho's acts of violence will not make him any less culpable, and the poorly veiled attempts to somehow take this and pin it upon the current administration and the NRA are fascinatingly ignorant.

comment #44

D.Z. says ...

mitch: Yeah, he's responsible, but he's dead now. And that means the responsibility lies with us to fix his mess, so it doesn't happen again.

comment #45

le corbeau says ...

Is that how you feel about Saddam Hussein, D.Z.?

comment #46

OddDuck says ...

Hey Mitch, great way to "win" an argument, by saying "what I wrote is correct."

That was the dumbest thing I've read in the past two hours.

And it's really offensive that you imply anyone who is pro-gun control is trying to let the shooter off the hook.

I'll say it again, it's reasonable and RIGHT to discuss the gun laws that enabled the shooter to obtain two handguns which he used to kill 32 people. There are definitely two sides to the gun control issue and neither side has a monopoly on on the moral high ground. But you trying to shut down that discussion by calling names and insults demonstrates that you're clearly operating from somewhere lower.

comment #47

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: Um, Saddam killed people because of us, not because of his own volition. He probably couldn't have gotten very far without our help. And the Iraq war is just going to result in the same thing.

comment #48

OddDuck says ...

D.Z. almost makes me want to become a pro-Bush republican.

comment #49

cobhome says ...

the strictest gun control law in this country - requires name - address - no past felony history - no history of mental instability ( ie - psychiatric hospital stay) a 30 day wait period - by these standards - this kid could have gotten a gun - he even bought these guns a month ago - so wait period was no deterrent -

ya know - how many people here who feel gun control is the issue - have called their state legislator or congressperson - to let them know they want strict gun control laws passed? The NRA has hijacked our government because we let em!

there have been studies up the wazoo about violent behavior - and they all come to the same conclusion - the primary factor is family - second is the broader cultural influences and third is access to guns -

comment #50

le corbeau says ...

"Mgmax: Um, Saddam killed people because of us, not because of his own volition"

That's beautiful. A Soviet client, a Capone-like military thug who murdered his way to the top, a fascist dreaming of being the great pan-Arab leader-- and he ONLY killed because we told him to. Boy, Rumsfeld sure accomplished a hell of a lot with one handshake.

comment #51

christian says ...

mgmax, you can go back further than that approving-genocide handshake -- check out life magazine from the 60's where they pimped hussein as our new friend in the east...a little history doesn't go far in america these days...

comment #52

lionsfan says ...

The reason this website should remain devoted to movies, Jeff, is because when you step outside the narrow environment you know pretty well, you really do sound pretty dumb. And in an incessant, yammering way.

Just your unnecessarily hostile remarks about right-wing Christians above, what is the point there? (And do you even prefer "left-wing Christians," self-righteous clods like Martin Sheen?) Do you honestly blame those who believe in Jesus (the Prince of Peace, after all), however confusedly at times, for the actions of an evil and/or deranged sicko down in Virginia?

In turn, I generally despise film critics who clearly don't have a lot of subtlety in their writing (let alone, I sometimes suspect, formal, well-rounded academic education) but nonetheless feel free to rant on and on about politics to the general level of an interview with (at best) Richard Gere or Tim Robbins at his most cant-prone.

I also disagree with those surveyed "European journalists" (now there's a great crowd to expect wisdom about American life from, let alone balanced opinions) that the atrocity at VT stems from America's gun culture. It stems from one depressingly self-righteous, maladjusted punk who displayed his "feelings" in a horrendous way, and that's all. He probably should have been spanked a long time ago, he certainly should have been in therapy and forced to take a year off from school to work on his socialization, but in a fashion which wouldn't have harmed others. And when I think of those most enamored with America's "gun culture," I myself actually think of hapless crazoes like Patty Hearst's kidnappers, the Weather Underground bombers and Raymond Luc Levasseur's merry crew of bombers and bank robbers, whose greatest "achievement" was the murder of a New Jersey State Trooper named Joseph LoMonaco. All of these loonies, too, imagined that turning to the gun would accomplish wonders.

Just that you ascribe political wisdom to Michael Moore (who terms jihadists whose daily body count is higher than that at VT as "freedom fighters...the good guys") , Jeff, really, this shows the limitations of your attempt with this item to evince "depth."