comment #1

Noah says ...

To once again paraphrase David Cross:

"What was the violent movie that Charles Whitman watched before he killed all those people? And what were the video games that Hitler played?"

Psychotic folks like Cho (who also seemed to have a narcissistic streak) will explode one way or another. We live in such a culture of blame that we have to figure out what the reason is. The reason is that Cho was a troubled young man who would have lashed out in some way and I doubt that he was all normal and collected and then watched Old Boy and said "Ohhhh, maybe I should kill 32 people!"

comment #2

MathewM says ...

The point is that a guy like Cho should not have been watching a movie like Oldboy days before commiting his act. You can argue freedoms all you want but I have no doubt that violent movies/videogames do influence psychotic individuals for the worst.

comment #3

Noah says ...

How did Old Boy influence Cho for the worst? If he used a hammer, then I think this wouldn't even be a news story.

comment #4

Brian says ...

Cho before watching Oldboy: You know, life is great. I'm a happy man.

Cho after watching Oldboy: Where's my hammer?

comment #5

MathewM says ...

"How did Old Boy influence Cho for the worst? If he used a hammer, then I think this wouldn't even be a news story."

How would of it influenced him for the better?

Viewing constant acts of violence would help desensitize someone who is preparing to commit a mass slaughter.

I'm not argueing that we should censor movies for violent content but I am saying that there isn't much benefit to a psychopath watching it.

comment #6

Noah says ...

Isn't the flipside of it that watching violent movies and playing violent videogames might be a release for a lot of people instead of doing it in real life?

And you can't make films based on whether or not it might fall into the wrong hands. You make it with respect for the audience, hoping that they will understand that this is just a film. If a psychopath doesn't see it that way, then he will act out regardless of whether or not he views a violent film.

comment #7

jeffmcm says ...

So what's your point? Psychopaths shouldn't watch Oldboy (or The Matrix, which is where his two-guns-drawn pose is from) and people who are afraid of snakes shouldn't watch Anaconda and people whose families died on 9/11 might not want to watch United 93.

But speaking for everyone else, I don't want to be restricted.

comment #8

christian says ...

so that explains john mcain singing "bomb iran" to the tune of the beach boys "barbara ann" today...

comment #9

Joshua Mooney says ...

And I'm thinking that you're right, "MathewM." At least, I've never seen a study or high-tech brain scan which indicates that murderous psychotics are NOT influenced by movies/games. Of course I haven't. Then again, there were psychotic mass murderers before the age of electricity. Going back, oh, thousands of years, according to history. And these madmen were probably motivated by such-like as: the direction the swans swum on the lake once the ice finally broke; OR, by the way the smoke from Mistress Cherry's Sabbath dinner fire-pit angled into the sky.

Psychotic killers have always found a reason to kill. It's what they do. And they won't ever stop until you are dead.

I guess what I'm saying is, I hope the authorities don't come after my porn. I've done... questionable things.

comment #10

Edward says ...

Popular media always makes for a good scapegoat.

comment #11

Brian says ...

"Viewing constant acts of violence would help desensitize someone who is preparing to commit a mass slaughter. "

How much can one really be desensitized once he's reached the point where he's *preparing to commit a mass slaughter*.

Damage has been done by that point, no?

comment #12

tholl-yung says ...

This guy wouldn't have passed the simplest psych- clinic intake exam, he should never have been able to buy a gun with just a criminal background check and no qualifiying test. It's maddening, because he didn't snap, he was in a crushing decline for some time and wouldn't have been able to pass any kind of qualifying test for gun ownership had a test been given to him, he was dispensed a gun because he asked for one and paid for it -- it's sick.

comment #13

MathewM says ...

I'm talking about the influence. Think of it like peer pressure. When you're younger, with your friends and they light up a joint most likely you're going to take a drag. A guy like Cho, who had no friends probably took to forms of media as comfort. I'm not blaming the fault of Oldboy on Cho's actions but I do believe that him watching a marathon of the film served as a "warming" up for the acts he commited.

comment #14

Gabriel says ...

The more we talk about this fuck, the more purpose his rampage has. He's the product of an internet era in which any moron with a webcam or a blog can subject any willing audience to all the pointless, irrelevant musings in his/her brain. He thought the best way to get an audience and somehow improve the world was by going on a rampage and having everyone pore over his manifesto after his death, and he's doing it because he lives in a culture that entitles him to it.

There's only one semi-effective way to kill such delusions in the minds of all these would-be martyrs, and that's to ignore them. There should be a fucking embargo on talking about this Cho asshole from here on out, let any of his comrades in depravity find inspiration in the media's coverage.

comment #15

D.Z. says ...

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/310349

comment #16

Brian says ...

"I'm not blaming the fault of Oldboy on Cho's actions ..."

Well, then, what's your point? If you're saying it's not to blame, what difference does it make whether he "warmed up" by watching Oldboy or listening to Beethoven?

comment #17

tholl-yung says ...

That's really not true Gabriel, people need to see how easy it would have been to screen him out for gun ownership. It's simple before you get a prescription, you go to the doctor. Same rule for a gun -- before you get a gun, you get examined to see if your fit. He would have flunked so badly -- this shouldn't have happened this way, NO WAY. That's what needs to get out: sick people don't get to buy guns.

comment #18

jeffmcm says ...

MathewM, what information do you have that he 'watched a marathon of Oldboy' before he went on his spree?

comment #19

Noah says ...

We need to stop blaming people for this. We could sit here all day and blame 1) movies, 2)videogames, 3) campus security, 4) college advisor, 5) cops, 6) the dudes who sold him the gun, 7) the parents. EVERYONE IS TO BLAME. And nobody is to blame. Cho was a sick individual and this would have happened no matter what, we gotta stop trying to find a reason or an excuse. It happened, now let's be mindful of it as we move towards the future.

comment #20

tholl-yung says ...

Bottom line, if you want to buy a gun legally, pass a test and get a note. If you want to buy it illegally, you're on your own.

comment #21

thevisceral says ...

Movies don't make me want to kill. Well, except Aeon Flux...

comment #22

Gabriel says ...

T. Holly - I think that's a separate issue from what I'm talking about. Whatever ample evidence there is of his delusional nature could be screened for firearm manufacturers and distributors without turning him into the martyr he aspired to be. And anyway, the gun sales aren't the point. If some disenfranchised nut wants to mow down a group of his/her peers, there will always be some avenue for him/her to get weapon. Maybe it'll be more difficult, but it's never going to be impossible because there will always be someone selling guns illegally who doesn't give a shit what the buyer intends to do with their purchase.

The fact remains that we're granting Cho's wish by giving him a posthumous conch and letting him rave to a global audience about how evil all the rich kids at Virginia Tech are. You even heard him talk about how much he looked up to the Columbine kids - don't you think their ensuing celebrity status as the picked-on kids who "got even" might have influenced him considerably? Any other angry, violence-prone kid who wants to get some attention can see very clearly that all one has to do is commit a visible murder in order to be heard. And that's the wrong message to send.

comment #23

tholl-yung says ...

Of course he's getting what he wanted, you can't shut it down. Of course he COULD have gotten a gun illegally, but WE GAVE HIM ONE, we said "here, do what you want, we trust you." I'm saying NO!, NO MORE. That's the only "good" that can come out of this. IF YOU WANT TO BUY A GUN LEGALLY, PASS A TEST AND GET A NOTE. If you want or need to buy it illegally, you're on you're own.

comment #24

Gabriel says ...

I agree with what you're saying. I just think that both objectives - making the gun control a lot more stringent, and keeping the media glorification (however inadvertent) of kids who kill people out of bottoming-out frustration with the world around them - can be achieved simultaneously.

comment #25

Gabriel says ...

* - that should read "keeping the media glorification...yada yada....to a bare minimum - can be achieved simultaneously."

comment #26

The Movie Man says ...

I was wondering when we were going to get around to blaming this on a movie. A real news story would be a tragedy like this that DOESN'T cite some easy to blame movie or book or video game. Jeff has a good point, disturbed people like this young man and the guys at Columbine are of course going to look for things to emulate, but these sorts of problems aren't solved by trying to magically make the influences go away and treating the entire rest of the country like children.

Several of you guys said the same thing but it felt good to type it just the same.

comment #27

tholl-yung says ...

Gabriel, everyone should see the tapes and start or continue discussing what specific pathology he's displaying, because it's extremely textbook and is seriously a tool for the public.

comment #28

Dan Revill says ...

Out of curiosity, what media outlets made the connection between the Cho hammer pic and Oldboy?
I'm guessing a good chunk of the populace has no idea that the movie even exists.

comment #29

Dan Revill says ...

Nevermind, I googled the info. If the general populace didn't know about Oldboy before, they do now.
What's disappointing is that for many people, who may now watch the movie, it'll have a negative connection for them. Yes, the movie is violent and dark, but it's also a modern masterpiece as far as I'm concerned...Oh well. Such is life.

comment #30

tholl-yung says ...

Aladdin, it was first in a NYTimes blog, I think, see Finke or Kilday. OK, the tapes should go away, nobody will get the right message. But we can't go on selling guns legally to nut jobs.

comment #31

jeffmcm says ...

I don't care to have our country's gun laws dictated to us by foreigners (and I mean you T Holly).

comment #32

tholl-yung says ...

Stop jerking off mcm, you'll get chaffed again.

comment #33

Hallick says ...

Seeing as how Jesus and The Bible, which Cho actually refers to in his ranting, didn't stop him from randomly murdering innocent people, I think everybody may as well shut the hell up when it comes to looking for a connection in "Oldboy" unless they also feel like taking The Bible to task for existing too.

Cho was a sick individual that slipped through the fingers of the systems that we hope are in place to catch on to that, and now 32 people are dead at his hands, along with himself. I'm dramatically more concerned about the doctors and officials who saw danger in him and weren't able to nip his psychotic path in the bud than I am of a movie in which he might have found a mirror for his rages.

comment #34

jeffmcm says ...

What's 'chaffed'? To chaff?

comment #35

tholl-yung says ...

This has been address: "I'm dramatically more concerned about the doctors and officials who saw danger in him and weren't able to nip his psychotic path in the bud..." and the real pros are saying there is not a means to have pulled him in off the streets for good or out of the public, which is why I'm saying people who want to buy a gun should be psychologically tested, because he would have failed and been tagged and possibly more. I have doubts he had the resourcefulness to obtain one illegally -- did he have the cajones? would it have stalled him long enough to mess up again and get detained and derailed from his plan? Is getting a gun illegal as easy as searching on-line? because I don't think he was capable of interacting with live people in order to negotiate buying one.

comment #36

jeffmcm says ...

Obviously he was.

comment #37

tholl-yung says ...

No stupid, interacting on the level needed to buy a gun illegally -- it takes a tiny bit of personality to do that.

comment #38

jeffmcm says ...

I wish you wouldn't call me stupid when I was nice enough to give you the benefit of the doubt as to English being your first language.

comment #39

anti-sardine says ...

This guy was an anti-social fuck who slowly built up a massive fantasy of hate within his mind. Who knows what combination of media influences, previous shootings, unbalanced brain chemistry and other factors alligned to make him boil over? It is impossible to say what could have been changed to keep this particular deranged individual from commiting the shootings.
One factor in this sad event that we as a society CAN control is not to give the gunmen his final goal of turning himself into a cult hero for other psychopaths, which sadly, is what's taking place.
Is anyone in the general population really gaining insight and knowledge by watching these boastful, posturing videos that will help prevent another one of these types of shootings? Are these rantings really news only because he killed 32 people or is it simply people's morbid curiosity at it's worst? It is sad that more people will see this lunatic's video than will see all of the top 10 movies combined at the box office this week. I say print only his name and a small photo in the media coverage and then back to obscurity where he belongs. Remember the event and the victims, but not the perpatrator.
I know it will never happen like that given the current state of the world, but it would be nice.

comment #40

MeandMyselfandI says ...

Movies don't cause people to become mentally ill. A severely mentally ill boy with paranoid schizophrenic delusions was allowed to fall through the cracks and go untreated. A movie had nothing to do with that.

comment #41

tholl-yung says ...

You're right, thanks. Just so you know how I feel about you, I'm certain you would pass the little psych evaluation I'm talking about, if you wanted a gun. People with nothing to hide will take a little test, plus they can contest the results, just so you know I'm fair. Anyway, Newsweek's got a story on how many mentally unstable people get to buy guns, so I'm sticking with my slogan, IF YOU WANT TO BUY A GUN LEGALLY, PASS A TEST AND GET A NOTE.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18217741/site/newsweek/

comment #42

StewartforPresident says ...

Post-Modernism strikes again.

comment #43

MovieBob says ...

MatthewM:
"You can argue freedoms all you want but I have no doubt that violent movies/videogames do influence psychotic individuals for the worst."

This is a free society. To punish the legitimately innocent in order to prevent the theoretical wrongdoing of another. That is barbarism, pure and simple.

comment #44

MovieBob says ...

Er... that should've read, "to punish the legitimately innocent in order to prevent the theoretical wrongdoing of another is barbarism, pure and simple." Stupid fingers.

comment #45

christian says ...

hey guess what all you anti-gun control freaks?

turns out by all standards cho SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LEGALLY PURCHASE A GUN:

(AP) McLEAN, Va. - A judge's ruling on Cho Seung-Hui's mental health should have barred him from purchasing the handguns he used in the Virginia Tech massacre, according to federal regulations.

thanks for wasting time and oxygen to defend your wretched stance. and now you'll hear from the victim's parents who'll have a stronger point of view on this...

comment #46

tholl-yung says ...

It's bullshit christian, read the longer Newsweek piece. The regulations are disorganized (at best) and impractical (at worst), you need a blood test to get married and an aids test to do porn, why not a psych evaluation to buy a gun?

comment #47

D.Z. says ...

Korean? Chinese? What's the difference? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_311
Man, you red-staters really need to work on your intolerance issues, or they'll bite you in the ass one day.

comment #48

Drew says ...

I don't care to have our country's gun laws dictated to us by nutjobs (and I mean you T Holly).

I don't usually comment on other commenters here, but seriously... I'm halfway convinced that "T. Holly" is actually a computer program, because you are rarely, if ever, coherent. Try reading your own posts out loud sometime. If they still make sense to you, then up your dosage.

comment #49

TCB says ...

It seems to me that we're getting this whole thing wrong. Cho can't be imitating "Oldboy", because a)he has two hands on the hammer, and b) he has hair. Obviously, there's a difference. The only person I can think of who might have struck such a pose might be Al from "Home Improvement", a show that has, to my recollection, inspired at least five mass murders.

comment #50

tholl-yung says ...

Instead of "the kid got his way, we're looking at him," we could be saying "this is the part where he's having grandiose thoughts" and "this is the part where he's saying he's imagined having his throat slit" so people and kids can see how a real life crazy person acts and thinks. Get it, Drew? Still on the bandwagon that I'm incoherent? Poke around, you may find there needs to be a concurrent psych test to own a gun. Read the Newsweek article, there's even stuff about the NRA.

comment #51

hatchetface says ...

Here is the guy who made the Oldboy reference - a teacher at VTech - and it sounds like he is really regretting it. Obviously he had not a shred of proof that Cho watched the film prior to killing, as someone here who must be smoking crack, has suggested:

http://www.selfreliantfilm.com/

comment #52

Hallick says ...

The movie that people ought to be looking at after school massacres like this one and Columbine and others isn't "Oldboy", or "The Matrix", or "The Basketball Diaries".

It's "Carrie".

That's the movie I really think of when I read articles like the one D.Z. posted above. These murderers may or may not be getting their fashion sense and choice of weapons from the other films, but movies like "Carrie" demonstrate pretty well where they're getting their impotent rage.

comment #53

tholl-yung says ...

A NASA worker read an e-mail, got mad and bought a gun the same day, which he later used to kill the writer of the e-mail. I think he should have been required to take a seat and ask for permission to buy a gun. A life could have been saved yesterday.

comment #54

tholl-yung says ...

Make that two lives -- hers and his.