comment #1

Noah says ...

"I smoked for years and years but I don't any more, and I don't like the way cigarettes smell unless I'm in Europe (it's different over there)."

Totally! And over there, their farts smell like tulips! Come on, Jeff, is it just that you don't like smelling the smoke of "red-state neanderthals"? I found the cigarette smoke to be the same over there as it is here, except that in Paris you can smoke indoors and in New York, you can't anymore. I just recently quit smoking a couple months ago after seven years and I think the main reason to have people smoking in modern-day films is to give the actors something to do, a prop to play with. Plus, plumes of cigarette smoke look beautiful on screen.

comment #2

Silverscreenvideos says ...

My, how things change. About ten or fifteen years ago, the way that a movie showed that 20-something characters were cool was to have them smoke as they tossed off what the screenwriter thought was witty repartee.

Since film is a visual medium, we don't have the luxury we do on the printed page of allowing the author to tell us at length every nuance of a character's personality. We have to piece it together, like a puzzle, from every detail that the actor, the writer and the director give us.

So it tells us something when we see a character who obviously hasn't bathed in a while, and it tells us something when we see a character who obsessively fiddles with a wedding ring, and it tells us something when a character smokes.

In some movies, smoking may be an essential part of a character's personality. I recently saw Guy Pearce in First Snow and the smoking fit his character perfectly, even to his degree of concern over his health. But Pearce's character was intentionally a badly flawed character, not an outright villain, but not a suave winner either.

I have no problem with an appropriate character type smoking or when it is a valid plot element in the movie. But when I see a character smoke, it tells me that this is a weak, stupid person and a loser. And if the film tries to pass that person off as something else, then it isn't working for me. It would be the same as hearing a character spend the first hour of a movie spouting out a lot of "aint's" and "he dont's" and then learning that he was a college English professor. It just don't work, ain't it the truth.

comment #3

scooterzz says ...

when i quit smoking a couple of years ago, i promised myself and my friends that i would never become 'that guy' who fakes a cough or makes 'that face' when someone lights up...recently, i had to attend a screening set up for the hfpa and the overwhelming odor of stale cigarette smoke and bad perfume had me reeling (and, i'm afraid, breaking promises)..
that said, i'd hate to see the mpaa given any more clout than they already have...they're dangerous enough as is.....

comment #4

Mr. Muckle says ...

Tony Soprano - cigars - fat sausage fingers - perfect.

comment #5

Thrudvangar says ...

I'm proudly a member of the B camp. Life is great over here. I'm 43, rebelling at work and a man of many addictions.

Whenever someone lights up in a film I crave, crave...

And The Insider is on my Top Ten list of favorite movies.

I live in a red state though. Go Reds!

comment #6

transmogrifier says ...

I know plenty of smokers, and none of them fit into your categories. It is possible to have an opinion without packing the issue into easily managed crates of lazy stereotypes.

comment #7

malibugigolo says ...

Smoking wouldn't put a chip in Wells' mediocrity
as he always was below average.

comment #8

gruver1 says ...

Wells to transmogrifier: Bullshit -- young people smoke in part because they know health issues are probably decades off. Anyone older who smokes has some kind of submerged fuck-me/neg-head attitude, or has addiction issues. There is no sane or healthy rationale for an older person smoking, period. It's not the 1940s or the '60s in France -- it's here and now and quite often it's a fucking death sentence. Ask George Harrison and Carl Wilson. At the very least it's Russian Roulette, and only people with self-destruction issues play that game in the final analysis.

comment #9

gruver1 says ...

Wells to malibugigolo: If you want to try that again so it makes sense (i.e., logically or at least grammatically), write me an e-mail and I'll post it in place of that thing you just wrote.

comment #10

christian says ...

you left out another possibility: addiction.

so you won't be enjoying fellini anymore? all that smoking.

geez. you could make the same generalizations about people who ride motorcycles...

comment #11

gruver1 says ...

Smoking is different in older movies. It wasn't such a blatantly self-destructive thing to do in the '30s, '40s, '50s and early '60s.

comment #12

malibugigolo says ...

Smoking cigs feels good.
Like Sex and coming in a woman without a condom.
Coke.
&
JD on the rocks that first sip with the ice just starts to melt.
Or reading John Fante or listening to Johnny Cash when a Sunday morning is really coming down. Or watching a Claire Denis movie, or The Long Goodbye, it just is baby.

If Gruver1 has cure to the pain of life and the end to the pain of FEELING and/ or and dealing with philistines.
I'm will stop all of the above.

Please tell.

comment #13

alynch says ...

You know what, I still think smoking looks cool. Whenever I see someone light up in a movie, I smile at the sight of it. And I've never smoked in my life. So essentially I disagree with the basic premise of this post.

comment #14

LYTrules says ...

What I hate in movies is when there's a close-up of a cigarette burning accompanied by a loud "rustling leaves" kind of sound effect. Hugely common in student films, but I see it more in more in major releases too.

Smoking never makes that same sound in real life, as far as I can tell.

comment #15

rocco says ...

Jeff, you know I like to keep you honest...but I have to say, this is the most sincere, rational, and focused criticism you have written in recent memory. Nothing about Jesus freaks, polar bears, Obama, Mann's genius, or Bob Clark.

Brilliant.

Which is why I hate to bring it up, but how do you reconcile your disdain for smokers in general with your support for Obama?

Anyway...I've found that people my age (late 20s) smoke or have smoked as some sort of perpetual social networking "in" (I knew guys in college who didn't smoke who carried lighters just to simulate the same advantage with girls). Then addiction took over and, just as you say, the delayed consequences carry no weight compared to the youthful sense of immortality. It's an affectation that becomes a habit...and a passive-aggressive form of suicide.

...I've always supported the smoking bans...I can sip some gin without infringing on your comfort, but as soon as you light that cancer stick, it's time for the dry cleaners.

I'll never understand how anyone gets past that first cigarette...when I was twelve or thirteen, my mother--a heavy smoker at the time--forced me to smoke just one...I was sick for hours and hours. Dizzy, nauseous, and buzzed, I hate the feeling, which probably explains why I was never into the Grateful Dead...

comment #16

Arran says ...

I'm a smoker and love it, and will make no apologies. However, I agree that smoking in movies should be an automatic R...if only because it will mean film makers will think twice before using it as a lazy device to suggest someone is dangerous/downcast/"hip". When a lot of characters smoke in a movie it can be distracting and it's almost always entirely unnecessary (recently, I'm thinking of The Departed, but also something like Good Will Hunting).

comment #17

Arran says ...

I realise the movies I mentioned were R-rated, but I was making a separate point.

comment #18

Craig Kennedy says ...

LYTrules: Have you ever smoked a cigarette while under the influence of LSD? It makes that sound. Of course, the giant evergreen trees across the soccer fields from my dorm room also looked like giant, evil gnomes with pointy hats descending upon the college to destroy it, but that doesn't make it so. I'm just saying.

I'm guessing the student films of which you speak are ripping off David Lynch in Wild at Heart though I'm sure he wasn't the first person to use the effect either.

For the record I was portions of A B and C. I always wished it made me look cool, but I just looked like a tool. I finally quit in 1999 after one of those 'Fuck You Smokers' taxes that California is so fond of passed. I smoked 2 packs of American Spirits a day and that put them in the ball park of $4.50 a pack plus. I was kind of pissed off at the time, but it's the best thing Rob Reiner ever did to me besides Spinal Tap, Stand By Me and Princess Bride. Thanks Meathead! You've saved me something in the neighborhood of $25,000.

comment #19

scooterzz says ...

rob reiner is a complete and total tool....that loud-mouthed fucking idiot has absolutely no business trying to dictate what californians do....i can not even begin to tell you what an intrusive twat this jerk is....

comment #20

Geoff says ...

My Dad has been on and off smoking for his whole life. It definitely has a hold on him. And his father died of lung cancer when I was around 4.

I swear to god I don't even like smoking tobacco. Early on, especially in high-school, my friends would keep telling me, "yeah, yeah, in the beginning, sure, but eventually, you'll keep on smoking for a week or so and then get addicted." Fuck it. I like to exercise, which gives me a great high, and the thought of polluting my lungs with that shit makes me want to puke. I would walk around my college campus trailing behind people smoking while hiking up hills and rounding corners at a fast clip just before class and it would disgust me.

The only reason I have ever wanted to smoke in the first place was for social reasons and to carry around a zippo lighter (I can do that cool trick Clooney does with it in Out of Sight). And movies do make it look cool to an extent and certain images stay with me. It's all self-destructive bull shit. This was a well written piece by Wells and it got me worked up a bit.

comment #21

Dan Revill says ...

I've not been anything like a regular smoker. I can probably count the number of cigarettes that I've had on both hands. Well okay...maybe three (birth defect, don't ask). Joking aside, usually the only time I had a cigarette was when I was at the bar or pub. It just sort of comes with the territory I find.

And feel free to disagree, but I don't fit any of your stereotypes. If anything, it's boredom that lead me to having those precious cigarettes. And now that I don't hang out with any smokers, the opportunity has not presented itself in sometime. So no loss there for me.

comment #22

scooterzz says ...

the lighter thing is interesting and important....i was a zippo guy all through my teens ('it lights in a wind-storm'....)....but, then i got a dunhill.....you don't quit a dunhill....it quits you.....i lost mine in a manhatten cab.....i would never have quit smoking if i hadn't lost the swell lighter.....

comment #23

televisiontears says ...

Good for you guys! It's not very often that you see common people band together to take a stand on an issue that we're all afraid to touch: smoking stinks!!! How brave! The self righteous odor emanating from this post/talkbalk is infinitely worse than the smoke I have to endure for the 4 seconds before I walk into a building. How is this a fucking issue? Some people enjoy smoking, some don't. The folks who do tend not to care how they look when they light up. If they did, they probably wouldn't smoke, from pure fear of the increasingly popular anti-smoking wrath.
Seriously Jeff, does every character in every film need to look "cool"? Is that what our passion is, to see cool people do cool things on a cool screen? I agree that sometimes it's used as a cheap, lazy device and falls flat on its face. But when an actor or director simply makes a poor choice, to wish a bullet on them... that is FUCKED. I've been shot, and I wouldn't even wish that on you.

comment #24

The Winchester says ...

I think the greatest use of smoking in a movie recently was Constantine. Keanu had lung cancer that was in it's final stages. Hell, he even (spoiler warning, but I figure nobody gives a crap about Constantine) dies from the lung cancer. And he chain smokes through the entire thing. It's disgusting. It made me quit.

It didn't take, though, but I guess that's because I'm either an a) or a d). Since I'm most likely what Wells considers a "fanboy", I'll just go ahead and call myself d)

comment #25

Dixon Steele says ...

Jeff, can I get your address?

Because after reading your eulogy to Bob Clark, I'd like to send you a carton of unfiltered Camels.

comment #26

The Movie Man says ...

Smoking is obviously unhealthy, and I think Jeff's perspective about who smokes is probably about right. But the issue with the MPAA concerns me, its just another part of the big brother, cut anything that isn't good for us because we can't take care of ourselves mind set that dominates certain groups and empowers the MPAA to do what they do.

Movies can be good for us, but they shoudln't HAVE to be, and at least a certain portion of them should be able to entertain our ids, free of any health/PC/censor bullshit. I believe they released a much debated on this site movie this weekend that celebrates that idea.

comment #27

Griff says ...

I've got Wells' back on this one, kids. A guy who's fairly well known in Recovery circles (Bob Earle, former writer for MASH, among other things) talked about smoking. A Doctor had told him there was a consensus of opinion that since it was proven that cigarettes contributed to early death, etc., the inescapable conclusion was that anyone who continued to smoke was committing slow suicide. Earle tried to keep smoking, but every time he lit up, he'd hear a tiny handgun going off near his ear. Made it much easier for him to quit. And, artistically, I'm with the Gruver1 on the cheap shorthand of someone smoking on screen. It's pretty lazy writing.

comment #28

gruver1 says ...

Wells to Dixon Steele: Whenever anyone famous has died, I've tended to review my feelings about their life & work in this column, and I've tried to include everything positive that I can think of. I had a lot of haters come down on me when I did this same thing when Jack Lemmon died. Yes, I ripped him a little bit....No! Can't say that! He just died! Show some respect!

I said earlier I will probably henceforth wait 24 or 36 hours when the next mediocre fimmaker dies in order to stay out of trouble with the haters on this site. You guys are really a bunch of little candy-asses about this stuff, but you really know how to hate also. I mean, you're really INTO IT.

But it cuts both ways, I think. Ask yourself this: if Pol Pot or Adolf Hitler or John Wayne Gacey or Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong or someone truly loathsome dies, do you hold your water about who they were in the death announcement story? By the Dixon Steele standard, I think you should, no?

"A man who was largely responsible for the death of six million Jews in concentration camps died today -- show some respect, think of his family, wait 36 bours before laying any judgments on who he was and what his life was about. If you don't, I'm going to send you a carton of Camel Filters!

Wait...you mean it might be okay to mention the six million when you're writing about the fact that Adolf Hitler has just died? Really...do you really think it might be allowable to do that? If it is, then I think it might be okay to mention the feelings of profound disgust and prolonged indigestion I felt after seeing "Turk 182" in the course of passing along the sad and ghastly news of poor Bob Clark's death (and especially that of his son).

Have a carton of Camels yourself.

comment #29

Dixon Steele says ...

So now you're comparing Jack Lemmon and Bob Clark to Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and Gacy.

Are you really that clueless, Jeff?

comment #30

Mr. Muckle says ...

Well, come on, DS. He makes the point that it is not automatically wrong to point out something negative about the departed. That's not the same thing as comparing Bob Clark to Jeffrey Dahmer. It's showing that an obituary is a gray area and you cannot say with objective certainty what's correct and what's not, and if you think you can, you're an idiot.

comment #31

The Winchester says ...

Killing six million people is not akin to making Baby Geniuses 2, i don't care how awful the movie was.

comment #32

jeffmcm says ...

Wells, Let me explain this in five words:

You

Just

Don't

Get

It.

So please puzzle over the glaring holes in your moral fiber in your own time and save yourself some embarrassment.

comment #33

christian says ...

you're not talking about weed, right?

comment #34

rocco says ...

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Self-righteous is a phrase that gets thrown around a lot.

TVTears...what's self-righteous about not wanting to be included in your little habit of self-loathing? I'm not even talking about the controversial claims about second-hand smoke; i hate the STINK. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to kill yourself $.25 at a time, I'm saying don't fucking blow a layer of tar into my hair and clothes.

I pick up my dog's shit, I don't take up two spots when I park my car...tell me, how is it self-righteous to ask for, or expect, a little courtesy?

Is it not enough to allow people their freedoms, I have to accept that those freedoms should also involve me as a participant? Bullshit.

comment #35

austin111 says ...

The thing about smoking looking cool on film is that you don't have to worry about second hand smoke, the smell, or the consequences (except to the actor, who may or may not actually be smoking "real" tobacco cigarettes, etc.). Nevertheless, I don't actually think that kids are necessarily influenced by someone smoking onscreen as much as by their peers or their family members who smoke. The question is whether or not an actor needs to smoke to get inside the character....sometimes maybe, but mostly not. Ed Norton said a while back that he'd made a decision not to smoke in a film ever again no matter what character he played. I also don't recall Brando really ever smoking in any film that he made. Does anyone else?

comment #36

scooterzz says ...

austin--i kinda think he smokes in 'the wild one' but, even if he didn't, there are several pub stills from that era of him in t-shirt and jeans with a cig...

comment #37

grener says ...

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