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The coldest, most lacerating and most misanthropic epilogue ever presented to mainstream audiences in the history of motion pictures. Was there a better one in this regard? Tell me what it was.

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on May 2, 2007 at 8:17 PM

comment #1

rgmax99 says ...

Barry Lyndon.

Posted by rgmax99 at May 2, 2007 8:28 PM

comment #2

rgmax99 says ...

I mean...that's the above epilogue, correct?

A better epilogue would likely belong to the ending of At World's End -- which, I hear, is a going to be a fantastic night at the movies!

Cough.

Posted by rgmax99 at May 2, 2007 8:30 PM

comment #3

Noah says ...

God, I love Barry Lyndon. That line always haunted me: "They are all equal now."

Posted by Noah at May 2, 2007 8:37 PM

comment #4

Nate West says ...

Cold and ironic, yes. But misanthropic? No, just honest.

Posted by Nate West at May 2, 2007 8:45 PM

comment #5

jeffmcm says ...

I would argue that the ending of Dr. Strangelove, in which the world's population is slaughtered and civilization comes to an end, set to the tune of a maudlin song, is more 'lacerating' and 'misanthropic'

But I think that's in large part because, as grim as the ending of Barry Lyndon is, it's essentially heartfelt and, above all, legitimately sad and tragic. Which is why I think that BL is ultimately the greater film between the two: it surpasses Strangelove's position of alienated cynicism and moves forward into a grander view of humanity, warts and all. I would call that artistic progress.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 2, 2007 8:46 PM

comment #6

Joe Leydon says ...

Nate: You are correct, sir. And funnily enough: That same line -- "They are all equal now!" -- comes to mind whenever I'm in the checkout line at Target, and see good, bad and indifferent movies all offered for the same marked-down price on DVD.

Posted by Joe Leydon at May 2, 2007 9:07 PM

comment #7

DarthCorleone says ...

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. "Misanthropic" doesn't necessarily follow.

Posted by DarthCorleone at May 2, 2007 9:24 PM

comment #8

Craig Kennedy says ...

The end of Paths of Glory always chokes me up, the end of Strangelove gives me a chill, but the end of Barry Lyndon makes me smile in a strange way. I don't find it misanthropic at all, but oddly humane.

Then again I don't buy the cold and anti-human tag people like to stick on Kubrick. You can be frustrated with humanity without hating it.

Posted by Craig Kennedy at May 2, 2007 9:47 PM

comment #9

Matthew says ...

Great epilogue. Also, the ending to the first half is so dark and cynical. "Sir, let those laugh that win." Great, underrated movie. Though, I guess any movie following Dr. Strangelove, 2001, and A Clockwork Orange would be a bit of a letdown. Has any director had a run of three straight movies as good as these? Maybe Vertigo, Psycho, and North by Northwest although I'd say these are not nearly as deep of movies as the Kubrick ones.

Posted by Matthew at May 2, 2007 10:36 PM

comment #10

jeffmcm says ...

I'd say they are.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 2, 2007 11:06 PM

comment #11

MPNeeb says ...

Unless I miss my guess, the line is used at the beginning of the Thackery novel.

Posted by MPNeeb at May 2, 2007 11:22 PM

comment #12

Devin Conroy says ...

AWESOME, thank you Jeff. This is the kind of stuff I love about this site.

Posted by Devin Conroy at May 2, 2007 11:52 PM

comment #13

Rich S. says ...

These lines come from the same wellspring of hope that produced Poe's The Conqueror Worm ("That the play is the tragedy, 'Man,' And its hero, the Conqueror Worm.") and Shelley's Ozymandias ("Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!").

Posted by Rich S. at May 3, 2007 5:16 AM

comment #14

J. Huff says ...

Anybody read Ecclesiastes recently? It's not as if this is new sentiment. (Though since it's biblical, Jeff might have to change his mind about it.)

Posted by J. Huff at May 3, 2007 5:25 AM

comment #15

Josh Massey says ...

"Has any director had a run of three straight movies as good as these?"

Duh - John McTiernan. Predator, Die Hard, The Hunt For Red October.

I can't decide if I'm serious or not. I think I might be.

Posted by Josh Massey at May 3, 2007 6:22 AM

comment #16

Matthew says ...

I love those movies. If you are going in the category of action movies, McTiernan's run of Predator, Die Hard, and Hunt for Red October is amazing.

Posted by Matthew at May 3, 2007 7:27 AM

comment #17

Wrecktum says ...

That epilogue can't beat:

In one of the countless billions of galaxies in the universe, lies a medium-sized star, and one of its satellites, a green and insignificant planet, is now dead.

Posted by Wrecktum at May 3, 2007 8:02 AM

comment #18

MickTravis says ...

"Has any director had a run of three straight movies as good as these?"

The booby prize! Robert Altman, who cranked out twice as many while Kubrick was asking Ryan O'Neal for take 76 and playing with candles. And I say that as a huge fan of Barry.

In terms of disspiriting epilogues (not just endings, mind you) the voiceover at the end of "The Fearless Vampire Killers" has always struck me as a particularly cruel. Yes, it's a horror-comedy, but not many horror-comedies end on quite such a cold, meanspirited note.

Posted by MickTravis at May 3, 2007 8:09 AM

comment #19

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

"Has any director had a run of three straight movies as good as these? "

Lord of the Rings? Just kidding, Jeff... I'll play. First up:

Lolita, Dr. Strangelove, 2001! I'd rank that better than the three ending in Clockwork Orange. But anyway...

Bringing Up Baby, Only Angels Have Wings, His Girl Friday? (Or To Have and Have Not, The Big Sleep, Red River?)

The Bitter Tea of General Yen, Lady For a Day, It Happened One Night?

I'd have thought Kurosawa would be a candidate, but there's always a lesser one slipped in there, Ikiru, Seven Samurai and Throne of Blood separated by I Live in Fear. (I might suggest Ozu but who can keep all those late springs and early summers separate?)

The Gold Rush, The Circus, City Lights, Modern Times? (Though The Circus is clearly a notch or two below the other three.)

Diary of a Country Priest, A Man Escaped, Pickpocket?

One Hour With You, Trouble in Paradise, Design For Living?

And the winner: The Lady Eve, Sullivan's Travels, The Palm Beach Story, The Miracle of Morgan's Creek, Hail the Conquering Hero.

Posted by Mgmax, le Corbeau at May 3, 2007 8:37 AM

comment #20

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

Ooh, how could I forget: The Godfather, The Conversation, The Godfather, Part II, Apocalypse Now?

Also candidate for most precipitous decline...

Posted by Mgmax, le Corbeau at May 3, 2007 8:52 AM

comment #21

AJW says ...

For DZ: Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown (omitting Four Rooms because of its 4-director format and because it would ruin any potential argument)

For downbeat epilogues, I can't remember if 'All Quiet on the Western Front' ended with Kat reaching for the butterfly and getting shot or if they included the epilogue from the book. Anyone?

No one's epilogues make me smile more than Woody Allen's from the 70s. Love and Death, Annie Hall, etc. But I take comfort in knowing there's a little Lebowski on the way.

Posted by AJW at May 3, 2007 8:57 AM

comment #22

christian says ...

THX 1138, AMERICAN GRAFFITI, STAR WARS anybody?

but the epilogue at the end of THE ENTITY is scary when it says that the attacks continue to this day...

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 9:05 AM

comment #23

Michael says ...

I don't know...I read that epilogue, and it just seems really obvious. Overrated, too.

Posted by Michael at May 3, 2007 9:16 AM

comment #24

atticusrex says ...

Hmmm.... Interesting thread.

Here are a few 'choice' choices

P.T. Anderson: Hard Eight, Boogie Nights & Magnolia

The Coens: Blood Simple, Raising Arizona & Miller's Crossing

The Coens Deux 2: Fargo, Big Lebowski & O Brother, Where Art Thou?

Sergio Leone: Fistful of Dollars, For A Few Dollars More & The Good, The Bad and the Ugly and going for 4 in a row: Once Upon A Time In The West

Ridley Scott: The Duellists, Alien and Blade Runner

Michael Mann: Last Of The Mohicans, Heat and Insider

Heck if the SFX Dude hadn't died before the picture was finished I could also have added Mann's run of: Thief, The Keep and Manhunter

Posted by atticusrex at May 3, 2007 9:26 AM

comment #25

atticusrex says ...

Hmmm.... Interesting thread.

Here are a few 'choice' choices

P.T. Anderson: Hard Eight, Boogie Nights & Magnolia

The Coens: Blood Simple, Raising Arizona & Miller's Crossing

The Coens Deux 2: Fargo, Big Lebowski & O Brother, Where Art Thou?

Sergio Leone: Fistful of Dollars, For A Few Dollars More & The Good, The Bad and the Ugly and going for 4 in a row: Once Upon A Time In The West

Ridley Scott: The Duellists, Alien and Blade Runner

Michael Mann: Last Of The Mohicans, Heat and Insider

Heck if the SFX Dude hadn't died before the picture was finished I could also have added Mann's run of: Thief, The Keep (Beautiful to look at, but the 'Monster' was never completed yet Mann choose to finish the film with out his SFX guru at the time, Wally Veevers) and Manhunter

Posted by atticusrex at May 3, 2007 9:29 AM

comment #26

atticusrex says ...

Forgive the double post but the second one is the better one since I clarified my point on Mann.

THey should have either a edit or remove button so we don't have these double posts.

Yes i could have previewed first... but what fun is that? LOL.

Posted by atticusrex at May 3, 2007 9:32 AM

comment #27

Cadavra says ...

Hate to go for the obvious, but: VERTIGO, NORTH BY NORTHWEST, PSYCHO, THE BIRDS, MARINE.

And WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION, SOME LIKE IT HOT, THE APARTMENT, ONE TWO THREE, IRMA LA DOUCE.

Posted by Cadavra at May 3, 2007 10:04 AM

comment #28

Craig Kennedy says ...

"I don't know...I read that epilogue, and it just seems really obvious. Overrated, too."

Yeah that Thackeray...what a hack!

How about Harold and Maude, The Last Detail, Shampoo, Bound for Glory, Coming Home and Being There? That's the 70's right there.

Posted by Craig Kennedy at May 3, 2007 10:07 AM

comment #29

Hopscotch says ...

Spielberg in the 70's and 80's had a great run, except for that "1941" thrown in there:
Jaws, Close Encounters, Raiders, ET.

Scorsese: Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't..., Taxi Driver. God I hate NY, NY.

I gotta go with the Coen's: Blood Simple, Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing. All amazing, all different genres, can't be beat.

Then again with Fargo, Big Lebowski and O Brother. Amazing.

But nobody beats Kubrick. Nobody.

Posted by Hopscotch at May 3, 2007 10:56 AM

comment #30

Craig Kennedy says ...

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd tack Barton Fink onto Hopscotch's first list and The Man Who Wasn't There onto the second.

Posted by Craig Kennedy at May 3, 2007 11:09 AM

comment #31

Hopscotch says ...

Yeah I'd disagree with you on those. I think both are good no question, but not quite in that tier of other movies.

Posted by Hopscotch at May 3, 2007 11:12 AM

comment #32

Edward says ...

Altman's; McCabe and Mrs. Miller, Images, The Long Goodbye, Thieves Like Us, California Split and Nashville.

I love Barry Lyndon, but think Ryan O'Neil is mediocre in it.

Posted by Edward at May 3, 2007 11:22 AM

comment #33

jeffmcm says ...

Images is kind of a tedious Repulsion wannabe though, though.

Which reminds me: Rosemary's Baby, Macbeth, Chinatown, The Tenant was a pretty good run.

It's such a shame that McTiernan could make those three great movies and then fall so far (13th Warrior?! Rollerball!?)

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 12:01 PM

comment #34

christian says ...

and don't forget bob clark:

CHILDREN SHOLDN'T PLAY WITH DEAD THINGS, DEATHDREAM and BLACK XMAS.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 12:03 PM

comment #35

jeffmcm says ...

As far as I'm concerned (y'all don't have to agree) the stretch of Saving Private Ryan, A.I., Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can is pretty excellent.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 12:03 PM

comment #36

christian says ...

i don't agree. MINORITY REPORT was fairly unimpressive except for one or two moments.

just go watch the wacky cops flying through the apartment scene as that alone eliminates it from consideration...

but we forgot:

DARK STAR, ASSAULT ON PRECINT 13 and HALLOWEEN.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 12:12 PM

comment #37

MoroccoMole says ...

How about: Slap Shot, A Little Romance, The World According to Garp?

Or: The Boys in the Band, The French Connection, The Exorcist, Sorcerer?

Or: Harry and Tonto; Next Stop, Greenwich Village; An Unmarried Woman?

Posted by MoroccoMole at May 3, 2007 12:20 PM

comment #38

atticusrex says ...

JeffMcM: Don't hold 13th Warrior against McT, what was released is still a 'watchable' flick but the Studio re-cut that movie for reasons of their own. As for Rollerball Redux, well I have no excuses for McT on that one. I would rate Rollerball the worst film of our modern times. With Pluto Nash a close 2nd.

I also revisited my list of Director 3-somes in a row and I feel that P.T. Anderson first 3 are all brilliant and different and that no modern Director has quite the fantastic run and output that Joel Coen and his bro Ethan have.

Posted by atticusrex at May 3, 2007 12:22 PM

comment #39

christian says ...

and let's not forget:

RUSH HOUR, RUSH HOUR 2 and RUSH HOUR 3

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 12:58 PM

comment #40

Larry says ...

So that's how Barry Lyndon ends. Never been able to make it that far.

Posted by Larry at May 3, 2007 1:06 PM

comment #41

christian says ...

MAD magazine did a great parody of BARRY LYNDON called BOREY LYNDON, i believe.

the best line that i still recall so many years later has somebody say of ryan o'neal, "he told the director he could play the part with my eyes closed - and that's exactly what he did."

kubrick was rarely a master of actors. sorry.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 1:28 PM

comment #42

jeffmcm says ...

Christian: The apartment scene with the cops flying around is one of my favorite parts of Minority Report - it's Spielberg's playful side.

Meanwhile, Kubrick was a perfectly good director of actors, and the proof is that Ryan O'Neal was never better than in that movie. He just can't get over the fact that he's still Ryan O'Neal.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 1:45 PM

comment #43

Jeremy King says ...

Aliens, The Abyss, Terminator 2

Posted by Jeremy King at May 3, 2007 2:08 PM

comment #44

MickTravis says ...

O'Neal's O'Neal, but he's still pretty damn good in "Paper Moon," too.

And, what, "Minority Report" gets ragged on while "A.I." sits there unscathed? I liked the Teddy bear and hated literally every other part of the film. Mostly because it could've been so wonderful.

Posted by MickTravis at May 3, 2007 2:10 PM

comment #45

christian says ...

"The apartment scene with the cops flying around is one of my favorite parts of Minority Report - it's Spielberg's playful side."

let me pull out my ruler.

the start of that chase scene is one of the best in the film, as cruise's police friends surround him to coerce him into giving up. it's tense and suspenseful. one cop apparently even dies in the ensuing chase up the building.

within a minute, they're flying wacky around an apartment and spielberg inserts a shot of a burger on fire to enhance the wackiness that has no business in that scene.

my beef with kubrick is that he made flawed actor choices. was ryan o'neal really the best choice to play an englishman scoundrel? no. kubrick had his eye on box office. it was a bad decision.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 2:13 PM

comment #46

Matthew says ...

Another thought on the director three in a row would be Orson Welles with maybe Mr. Arkadin, Touch of Evil, and The Trial. He might have others, such as Citizen Kane, Magnificent Ambersons, and The Stranger, but I have yet to see The Stranger (first two alone would make it close to Kubrick's).

Posted by Matthew at May 3, 2007 2:18 PM

comment #47

jeffmcm says ...

Christian, I think the wacky flying and hamburger are what make it a good scene. Spielberg takes one mood (ominous dramatic confrontation), builds it into an action scene, then twists the action scene into slapstick. It's on purpose, it entertains, it adds complexity and dimension.

It's also a matter of taste. I don't expect everyone to like it (or, for that matter, A.I., the greatest movie of the decade).

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 2:21 PM

comment #48

christian says ...

hell, i'd throw in mike nichols to boot:

WHO'S AFRAID etc. THE GRADUATE CATCH 22 CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 2:22 PM

comment #49

christian says ...

jeffm that's funny since you pointed out tonal inconsistencies as your problem with WONDER BOYS.

spielberg didn't trust the material or himself so he ruins a deadly serious scene with a bad gag.

and i love AI even tho it's flawed. and tone deaf.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 2:26 PM

comment #50

Rich S. says ...

christian, I happen to still have Mad Magazine's version of A Clockwork Lemon. At the end, it's not Alex, but the audience that can't keep its lunch down after all the violence. Man, was Mad great.

Posted by Rich S. at May 3, 2007 2:26 PM

comment #51

christian says ...

MAD taught me how to read poiltics, culture and advertising: suspiciously.

now they take ads. sad. mad.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 2:28 PM

comment #52

christian says ...

apropos of nothin', MAD nailed "the waltons" as the bland boring milk-toast series it was by showing the mother refusing charity and splitting a gumball ten ways for the family.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 2:30 PM

comment #53

jeffmcm says ...

Christian, I think the difference is control: I feel, whereas Spielberg has tonal control of his movie and shifts it smoothly and pleasureably through different modes, Hanson does not have control over Wonder Boys, thinks it's doing one thing, when in fact it's doing something else. I have no idea what you mean 'doesn't trust the material or himself' because it seems obvious that the movie is doing exactly what he wants it to - and what it should be doing.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 2:52 PM

comment #54

christian says ...

come on. the movie is a rather grim look at a fascist surveillance police state. why stoop to a burning burger gag in the middle of a scene designed for maximum conflict and suspense?

it's the equivalent of an animal reaction shot in the middle of an action scene. it UNDERCUTS the suspense not ENHANCES it. it shows spielberg wasn't willing to let the audience feel the threat. it shows no more control than hanson's lack of in WONDER BOYS.

and certainly AI is the film to watch for spielberg blowing tone, i.e., robin williams and chris rock.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 3:14 PM

comment #55

christian says ...

and nobody laughed aloud in the theater at the gag when i saw it opening day...

except one person...now i know who!

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 3:17 PM

comment #56

jeffmcm says ...

Because it's a movie, and because Spielberg's interest isn't to enhance suspense but to provide a thrill ride. In my opinion, Minority Report is more than just a 'grim action movie' it also has elements of satire and farce which make it a better movie, IMHO.

Ditto the Chris Rock appearance in AI - it's funny and out of place, for a reason. (Robin Williams is not out of tone, he's only distracting because he's Robin Williams).

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 3:19 PM

comment #57

jeffmcm says ...

Surely you know that not every gag is designed for out-loud guffaws.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 3:22 PM

comment #58

christian says ...

i forgot about the doddering granpa watching tv and ignoring the battle in another bit of quiet laughter. gag.

what's the reason for rock's appearance in AI? it again undercuts a serious situation, calling too much attention to rock. and like you say, williams.

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 5:57 PM

comment #59

jeffmcm says ...

Well, you could say that Chris Rock-bot's presence adds a little insanity to the scene, plus it equates the robot holoaust with lynching.
As far as I'm concerned, 'undercutting a serious situation' is often not only a good idea, but a desireable one. Especially in the hands of someone like Spielberg.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 6:17 PM

comment #60

christian says ...

see how perfectly they're parsed in JAWS...

Posted by christian at May 3, 2007 6:20 PM

comment #61

jeffmcm says ...

Yeah, but I think A.I. is a better movie than Jaws (a minority view, I know).

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 6:48 PM

comment #62

movieirv says ...

How about this thread: Frankenheimer:
Birdman of Alcatraz, Manchurian Candidate, Seven Days in May, The Train and Seconds?

Posted by movieirv at May 3, 2007 7:15 PM

comment #63

jeffmcm says ...

Here's another one I'm surprised nobody has mentioned: MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS, DOG DAY AFTERNOON, NETWORK.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 3, 2007 7:50 PM

comment #64

cinefan says ...

Last Waltz, Raging Bull, King of Comedy

Posted by cinefan at May 3, 2007 9:08 PM

comment #65

RoyBatty says ...

2001 might have great visuals, but that film is not deep and has no story.

Posted by RoyBatty at May 4, 2007 12:37 AM

comment #66

jeffmcm says ...

It's as deep as the ocean and 'no story' is irrelevant.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 4, 2007 11:20 AM

comment #67

christian says ...

yes, the evolution of ape to man to universal being is fairly shallow.

Posted by christian at May 4, 2007 11:57 AM

comment #68

Geoff says ...

2001--"not deep and has no story"

um, er, ugh...WOW.

Posted by Geoff at May 4, 2007 12:55 PM

comment #69

Geoff says ...

jeffmcm-I know you dig Spielberg, but I had no idea you loved A.I. that much. That shows a lot of love in my opinion.

But tell me, do you really think that he was capable of "love"? To me it never felt like anything more than just a damn robotic response, like the teddy bear. I was always conflicted with that.

FYI-The show Battlestar Galactica really explores this theme in an awesome way because they are completely organic and there is essentially no big difference on a biological level between the "cylons" and humans. And there's other good stuff, but whatever.

Posted by Geoff at May 4, 2007 1:08 PM

comment #70

Geoff says ...

Oh and people in my theater laughed at that burger gag in Minority Report. I remember letting out a little "ha" myself.

Posted by Geoff at May 4, 2007 1:17 PM

comment #71

christian says ...

well, people laughed at the trailer for NORBIT too.

but if jeff thinks AI is superior to JAWS...

Posted by christian at May 4, 2007 1:25 PM

comment #72

jeffmcm says ...

Geoff re: 'love' - I think the ambiguity you are puzzling over is the heart of the movie - the central point. Because (hopefully without sounding too much like a dopey college kid), aren't we all just programmed to elicit emotional responses ourselves?

Posted by jeffmcm at May 4, 2007 6:28 PM

comment #73