comment #1

themutilator says ...

Weren't pirate movies dead before POTC? Now you are judging movies at the idea level?!?

comment #2

Brian says ...

"It's a western" would rank about 5th on my list of why it's a ridiculous idea.

That said, it's no more ridiculous than making a movie based on a ride at Disneyland, and in fact it's probably less so.

comment #3

le corbeau says ...

I hear The Lone Ranger III: Showdown at Apocalypse Gulch is going to be five hours long!

comment #4

Rich S. says ...

You guys beat me to it. This is EXACTLY the sort of nay-saying that popped up before POTC. "Pirate movies don't make any money, remember Cutthroat Island?" "It's based on a theme park ride; who wants to watch another Country Bears?" I imagine Bruckheimer has plenty of $$$ to ease the pain of hearing he's about to "blow it" again.

comment #5

corey3rd says ...

This isn't nearly as dumb as Harvey's constant belief that The Green Hornet needs to be a major motion picture.

What's going to make this film painful is all the hoops they'll have to jump through to make Tonto appeal to American Tribes not protest the project.

comment #6

berg says ...

Klinton Spilsbury as the Lone Ranger, Bill Cosby as Tonto ... Tonto I want you to go to town ... You go to hell Kemosabe ...

comment #7

Matthew says ...

Does "decades" mean the 14 years since 1992 and Unforgiven came out? Or the 3 years since Open Range? Even if westerns are not nearly as popular as they were in the past, good movies find their audience. If they somehow make a good movie out of this (I'd be shocked), then it is a good idea. But I guess I like westerns enough to be excited about the prospect of even a bad one being made simply for the fact that it reminds studios this genre exists.

comment #8

Rich S. says ...

Plus, though not in a conventional sense, No Country for Old Men is clearly a western, at least in temperament. I guess that makes it irrelevant, too.

comment #9

erniesouchak says ...

"Shane"? I think it's best if Bruckheimer focuses on material that isn't supposed to be taken seriously. Remember "Pearl Harbor"?

comment #10

Bocephus says ...

Wasn't Brokeback Mountain a western?

comment #11

MickTravis says ...

They'll have to ditch the bandit mask, I really think that's the key. Zorro can pull it off, but Lone Ranger's mask is just goofy.

I mean, c'mon, the guy is always around, he's always wearing the same clean cut outfit, he's the Lone Ranger, why does he need to have a mask for.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a big budget version of The Lawn Ranglers.

comment #12

T. S. Idiot says ...

Unforgiven and Open Range are for adults. Lone Ranger would have to have kid appeal, and what kids know or care anything about Westerns?

comment #13

Mr. Muckle says ...

I'd go with Mike Meyers for Lone Ranger, Eddie Murphy for Tonto. It's gold, Jerry, Gold!

But seriously (not), the Lone Ranger, Zorro, and Marshall Dillon were all the heroes this country ever needed.

comment #14

christian says ...

"hey bartender, how'd you like to take a peek under my mask?"

one of the cos's best bits.

comment #15

corey3rd says ...

The thing is that all the Westerns mentioned were done at a cut rate - nobody had a Pirates budget when they hitched up the horses.

And nobody mentioned the best Western since Unforgiven: Deadwood.

comment #16

Edward says ...

Clint Eastwood remade (the overrated-IMO) "Shane" as "Pale Rider."

comment #17

Craig Kennedy says ...

Pirate movies weren't just dead, they were cremated and their ashes were snorted up Renny Harlin's nose.

If Suckheimer can make a billion dollars out of a Pirate movie based on a fucking low rent Disney theme ride, he can make a billion dollars out of a Western. Hell, he could make a billion dollars out of a warmed over cat turd.

comment #18

thebuddha says ...

Although I tend to hate Bruckheimer with a passion, I think if he was to remake any western a perfect fit would be The Magnificent Seven. And you KNOW that it would make a ton of money.

On a tangent note, my brother and I always seem to bring up the hypothetical cast of a Shane remake. I personally think Ashley Judd as Marian, Ed Norton as Shane, and a slimmed-down James Gandolfini as Joe.

comment #19

nemo says ...

Nobody's mentioned "Tombstone" 1993, which was excellent and made some money. Other westerns that have mattered during the past two decades:

Lonesome Dove, 1989. TV miniseries, but wildly popular.
Dances with Wolves, 1990.
Unforgiven, 1992.
The Last of the Mohicans, 1992. Pre-Revolution, but clearly a western. And directed by the sainted Michael Mann, no less!
Tombstone, 1993.
Geronimo, 1993. But didn't make much money.
Open Range, 2003.
Brokeback Mountain, 2005.

Innumerable Clint Eastwood westerns throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Lots miniseries follow-ups to "Lonesome Dove" during the 1990s, all of them popular, all of them good to not bad. "Comanche Moon" is in production right now. Some pretty good Val Kilmer westerns in the early 1990s: "Billy the Kid" and "Thunderheart".

Some good recent westerns that admittedly didn't do much business: "The Missing", 2003, and "The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada", 2005.

And if you want to count lousy westerns that still made money, there are plenty throughout the past two decades, e.g., the Young Guns series.

Yes, the western is not the big genre it was back in the 1940s and 1950s, or even in the 1960s. But it never stopped mattering. And the western was a huge genre back in the day. The pirate movie was never more than a small backwater genre, even back in the days of Errol Flynn and the very young Burt Lancaster.

When was the last pirate movie before POTC that became even remotely popular and made any money? I submit you would have to go all the way back to Yul Brynner playing Jean Lafitte in "The Buccaneer" way, way, way back in 1958. (Anthony Quinn was excellent in "A High Wind in Jamaica" in 1965, but that movie sank without a trace.)

Giving the Lone Ranger the POTC treatment still sounds like a terrible idea. Better to go with the Lawn Wranglers.

comment #20

Joe Leydon says ...

There already has been another "Shane" remake: It was called "Soldier," and starred Kurt Russell.

PS: Am I the only one who recalls the short-lived '60s TV series with a pre-"Kung Fu" David Carradine?

comment #21

jeffmcm says ...

A Jerry Bruckheimer remake of Shane is the dumbest idea I've seen today. Wells, if anyone else had suggested this, you'd jump all over them for proposing a travesty, a filmic abomination.

comment #22

nemo says ...

Someone up-thread mentioned "Deadwood" 2004-2006. A great western series, and very popular.

John Sayles's "Lone Star", 1996, starring the great Chris Cooper. Not a big audience, but a standout for both Sayles and Cooper.

Any number of movies that are not traditional westerns, but clearly have one foot in the western genre:

The Horse Whisperer, 1998. Not anything I care for, but it was big hit.
Red Rock West, 1992. Half western, half noir. Not a big audience, but the people who saw it liked it and remembered it.
A River Runs Through It, 1992.
Thelma & Louise, 1991. A monster big hit.

comment #23

snoop says ...

The Proposition was one of last years best movies with great performances from an amazing cast and theres also the tentpole remake of 3:10 to Yuma coming out. Westerns aren't dead; they just don't come out every week like they did in the 30s.

comment #24

Jeff says ...

I know it was a remake of a Television show, but Maverick could technically be called a western. I would imagine the Lone Ranger film being similar to that tonally. However, i feel that 3:10 to Yuma will come out and flop and put a big ol nail in the western coffin. Although I bet Yuma will also be one of the best films of the year.

comment #25

mitch says ...

nemo; good call on Lone Star, an absolutely first rate picture that has nestled itself safely into my alltime top 50 pics.

Open Range remains another top pic (I prefer it wildly over Unforgiven). However, no western in my memory compares favorably to Deadwood. Damn you, HBO!!!!

comment #26

Craig Kennedy says ...

So what have we learned? We've learned Wells is wrong twice in the same post: 1) the Western is not dead and 2) even if it was, Bruckheimer could bank on it.

Remember when Casino Royale was DOA also?

comment #27

christian says ...

LONE STAR was john sayles biggest hit.

comment #28

christian says ...

oh and let's not forget the biggest hit western of the past 20 years:

WILD WILD WEST.

uh, bueller?

comment #29

Edward says ...

I'm surprised no one has mentioned AMC's "Broken Trail," a very good western directed by Walter Hill and starring the amazing Robert Duvall and the excellent Thomas Haden Church.

comment #30

nemo says ...

We don't have cable around our house (the wife's a recovering cable addict), but I am really up for seeing "Broken Trail". Robert Duvall, Thomas Haden Church, Walter Hill, yeah man, where's the popcorn?

Walter Hill has had a long history with the western as a writer and director. Some of good to great: "The Getaway" 1972 (as a writer), "The Long Riders" 1980, "Geronimo" 1993, at least one episode of "Deadwood". Some of it not so great: "Wild Bill" 1995. And some of it borderline bad: "Last Man Standing" 1996.

comment #31

nemo says ...

"Broken Trail" just reminded me of the whole mini-genre focusing on the Chinese in the old West, a mini-genre that didn't exist before the last two decades:

"Thousand Pieces of Gold", 1991. An excellent starring performance by Chris Cooper, early in his career.
"Shanghai Noon", 2000, and "Shanghai Knights", 2003. Not bad for a couple of silly comedies, and innovative for putting the Chinese front and center. And they were popular. If you put the POTC treatment on the Lone Ranger, you'd come up with something like the Shanghai westerns, only bigger, glossier and more expensive.
"Broken Trail" 2006.

comment #32

JB Moore says ...

What about Jarmusch's "Dead Man"? Little seen in theaters, but it gained quite a cult following on video.

comment #33

Dan Revill says ...

How about The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford? It isn't dead yet.

comment #34

corey3rd says ...

seeing how easy it is to name the westerns of the past 15 years and that you can do it on the back of a matchbook, it's safe to say that this is a "dead genre." When was the last time you had to choose between 5 Westerns playing at cineplex? When was the last time you had to choose between 4 remade 70s horror films? Last month?

When was a studio talking about having a division that cranks out Westerns? Did I miss the press release for Fox Frontier?

The Western is a nostalgia item. Pirates made the fat dollars because it used tons of CGI weirdness. Will The Lone Ranger have to battle skeleton warriors instead of Indians and Mexicans? Plus what will be done of all the rumors that the Lone Ranger and Tonto were gay lovers?

comment #35

atticusrex says ...

WOW! This is an interesting thread... First off: JEFF, are you insane?! LOL. Shane is a true American Classic. You don't 'remake' a classic. Yes Pale Rider was Shane crossed with High Plains Drifter and I felt it is one of Eastwood's weaker westerns.

Shane is perfect for it's time. On the other hand Mag. 7? Great idea to remake. The first is a classic sure, but it's the type of classic that can be remade. Heck it was a remake to begin with.

Now as for the Lone Ranger... it's pre-sold at least in the Name department. There was an attempt to remake the Ranger and it crashed and burned. However Jerry knows how to spend and produce mega-flicks. Some don't work like Gone in 60 and Con Air but others do. And even the ones that don't make money and that is what this is all about at least on Jerry's level of filmmaking.

I believe that any genre will work if the movie is well acted, directed and of course written well. Casting is also important.

Tombstone worked. Wyatt Earp didn't. Silverado worked, Open Range didn't (Though it wasn't all that bad), Dances with Wolves worked, Posse didn't. ect....

The rebooted Zorro worked. This could too... they just have to work over the laugh factor in this character as he is perceived at this day and age.

Heck Hollywood is on the fast track to re-boot the original Star Trek. It's in the hands of the 'Lost' folks... so it could be interesting.

comment #36

jeffmcm says ...

Open Range was actually very good. I'm not looking forward to the 'Star Trek' reboot - I'm not convinced the 'Lost' people are in the same spirit.

comment #37

corey3rd says ...

remember when some genius thought that people would flock to movies featuring The Saint, The Shadow and The Phantom?

comment #38

christian says ...

i...saw THE SHADOW opening day.

hey, i love him. and i thought baldwin an inspired choice.

but the movie wasn't.

comment #39

D.Z. says ...

Brokeback doesn't really count as a Western, since the cowboys don't shoot (gunpowder) in that one.

thebuddha: You do know Magnificent Seven's already a remake, right?

christian: Wild Wild West is more like MIB in a Western setting.

corey: The Saint could have worked if the writers weren't trying to channel a New Age version of Simon Templar. The Shadow and The Phantom weren't that big to begin with in the first place.

comment #40

James says ...

I'm glad someone finally mentioned Silverado.

That's the model for a Bruckheimer western--light on its feet, funny, good ensemble cast, full of cool and clever action set pieces and anachronistic gags that winkingly make reference to our modern sensibilities. It's also around 2 and a half hours long.

As a pre-teen when that came out, I freaking LOVED it, as did all my friends. We watched it over and over and over again. In fact, I still have a soft spot for it.

comment #41

jeffmcm says ...

Except that a Bruckheimer western wouldn't actually be funny or light on its feet. It would _think_ it was funny, but instead it would be cumbersome and awkward.

comment #42

nemo says ...

The western may not be the huge sprawling genre it was back in the prime of John Wayne and Randolph Scott. But the western has never lost its hold on audiences. It has never come close to becoming the dead genre the pirate movie has been for most of the past half century.

Even before "Cutthroat Island", there was the flop of "Pirates" in 1986. Most people have never heard of the movie, even though it was directed by Roman Polanski and starred Walter Matthau. I've never seen it, but I remember the slagging it got from the critics as it sank at the theaters. Everyone over at IMDB who saw the movie liked it, so maybe it's worth seeking out. Apparently Walter Matthau is really good playing the Johnny Depp role.

Anyway, I also remember that even back in 1986 everyone said that pirate movies were a snake-bit genre with no chance of success. Box office poison. And except for the failures of "Pirates" and "Cutthroat Island", I cannot think of a single pirate movie made after "A High Wind in Jamaica" in 1965 (itself a box office failure) and before the first POTC in 2003.

(Well, I guess there were some pirates in those many remakes of Peter Pan. And pirates made very brief appearances in "The Life Aquatic" and in that Harrison Ford - Anne Heche thing.)

That is one hell of a long dry spell. On the other hand, there are always at least a couple of successful westerns coming out every year. Maybe not a couple every month, like back in 1950s. But a lot more than a couple every half century.

comment #43

IndiSB says ...

corey3rd-Native American. Use the proper name please.

comment #44

corey3rd says ...

The Shadow and The Phantom had their big shining moments (prior to being dull flicks) decades ago. How long has it been since anyone cared about the Lone Ranger? 60 years ago? Nothing like appealing to senior citizens to make a mega-blockbuster.

On the "dead genre" chatter - there are more films in the past few years in the Black actors dressed up as fat women genre than Westerns.

As far as "Native Americans" go, I call them a variety of names after a night at the casino.

comment #45

christian says ...

clearly y'all have forgetten THE PIRATE MOVIE, along with YELLOWBEARD and of course, the daft but fun, ICE PIRATES, the final nails in the 80's film pirate canon.

i always loved the poster for POLANSKI'S PIRATES (it's actual title) with mathau larger than life.

comment #46

thebuddha says ...

D.Z: Of course I know that Mag 7 was a remake of Seven Samurai. SevSam is probably the first black and white movie I ever remembered loving (I first saw it when I was like 6)

And as for movies that have pirates, does Goonies count? God, I loved that movie.

comment #47

christian says ...

"And as for movies that have pirates, does Goonies count? God, I loved that movie."

i defy you to watch it today and repeat that.

it does have one great moment where they honor the first pirate goonie.

that is all.

comment #48

atticusrex says ...

NEMO and all: After reading what Nemo said about no Pirate movies since that High Wind bomb in the 60's I guess everyone has forgotten the sadly landlocked pirate flick The Swashbuckler.

Wow was that like watching paint dry... though another studio actually made a fun 'buddy' pirate flick that is a guilty pleasure starring the always great Tommy Lee Jones in Nate & Hayes.

God I really wanted Swashbuckler w/the great Robert Shaw to be wonderful... but they committed the one sin of Pirate movies... no sea battles... heck Shaw and his crew were almost never on their ship. Arrrrgh!

Nether were Nate & Hayes but that film was sold differently.