Schlubs, Apatow, Rogen

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"I look at the people I meet. No one's dying to have a lot of responsibility in their lives. Very few people are looking at life and thinking, 'Gee, I wish there was another thing to occupy my time and energy.' Our characters are definitely trying to avoid that type of thing." -- Knocked Up star Seth Rogen analyzing schlub culture in Sharon Waxman's N.Y. Times piece about Judd Apatow's focus on (and identification with) nerdy/schlub types in his films.

Can there be any doubt that it was American schlubs who contributed a significant portion of last weekend's huge Spider-Man 3 haul? Apatow's Knocked Up characters pointedly mention wanting to catch Spider-Man 3 in the film. Way to go, Judd and Seth...that's really something to be identified with and be proud of.

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on May 7, 2007 at 5:19 AM

comment #1

The Hoyk says ...

With apologies to your friend Mike Binder...

Who should I be modeling myself after, Jeff? Men like you? Your age? My age? I don't. You know why? 'Cause schlubby men are nice. You take us out, maybe to a movie or a bar, and we're actually grateful. "Oh hey, a cold beer. Thank you." You go over to our place, the air is comfortable, you put your feet up, play some games, talk about ordinary things that make us laugh, we say, "Glad you could stop by. This was nice. This was fun. You're fun. Let's hang out again."

What should I do, Jeff? Settle down, take a job I hate, take marching orders from a bunch of suits, sweat over mortgages and stock portfolios and alimony arrangements, and become some pissed-off thing like you? I'd rather have someone come over and do dental work, every day, from my backside, up...through my ass!

Posted by The Hoyk at May 7, 2007 5:58 AM

comment #2

Rich S. says ...

Poor Jeffrey sounds like he's about two weeks from doing podcasts of his reading trial transcripts. Except in his case, it will be P.R. blurbs from Paul Dergarabedian.

Posted by Rich S. at May 7, 2007 6:45 AM

comment #3

George Prager says ...

Bring back the draft. Please! So I don't I don't have to wake up on Sunday morning and turn on CBS Sunday Morning and look at bespectacled, goateed, pot-bellied, laptop-lugging, overindulged, Ipod-ed, relaxed-fit-jean-wearing schmeggegies loading up on carbs (much needed before going to a three-hour superhero movie at a multiplex with stadium seating) at new Manhattan cafe that specializes in oversized portions of sugar cereals. Let's just hope they don't procreate.

Posted by George Prager at May 7, 2007 6:59 AM

comment #4

DTD says ...

Now that you mention it, I love being lectured by a guy with a flaming wreck of a marriage in his wake, a series of career failures, a current career built around sounding like a tipsy motormouth at a party (your description, not mine), who can't always keep track of who he hates from day to day, and- wait for it- who also contributed his hard-earned money (and we know it's hard-earned because we've been told over and over and over again just how hard he worked for it) to the opening weekend grosses of a movie he apparently thinks marks you as a bane to our continued survival. (Motivations matter not at all here. If just ponying up dough to see a movie makes you a terrible person, Jeff, then this would have been the time to grow a pair, draw the line, and make a stand if you feel that strongly about it.)

Is it any wonder why guys like Rogen and Apatow are more popular than "guys like me".

By the way, Jeff, you've spent money on S3 and I haven't, so I have the moral superiority here, based on your own criteria. Nevertheless, I'll await your "dickface" or whatever playground epithet you're warming up for those who disagree with you.

Posted by DTD at May 7, 2007 7:23 AM

comment #5

George Prager says ...

Hey, DTD -- at least your mother still loves you.

Posted by George Prager at May 7, 2007 7:30 AM

comment #6

Ron Lim says ...

Wow. Seems pretty obvious that Jeff destroyed whatever good will he had by trashing Spidey 3 before it even opened. It's open season on Wells now.

He got a free ride on the Pirates and Rings bashing, but that's all over now. He chose to attack the one studio franchise with heart and now his readers have turned against him.

Posted by Ron Lim at May 7, 2007 7:32 AM

comment #7

Rich S. says ...

You're a little late to the party, Ron. Try entering Peter Jackson into HE's search engine. Then curl up with a nice hot cocoa, take the afternoon off, and enjoy.

Posted by Rich S. at May 7, 2007 7:42 AM

comment #8

Michael says ...

Man, I think some people here need to start thinking happy thoughts or something...there's no need to call Wells' personal life out; you can disagree with a guy without doing that type of stuff. Grow up. Unless you're willing to share parts of your life that maybe aren't at the top of your accomplishments list, then let it go.

And I didn't really pay attention to what he said about Spiderman 3, but if he said it sucked he sure was right. That movie blew ass. I paid $10 for two tickets (the 10am showing in at a San Antonio AMC), and I still feel like I got ripped off, big time.

Posted by Michael at May 7, 2007 7:44 AM

comment #9

George Prager says ...

Hot cocoa? I rest my case.

Posted by George Prager at May 7, 2007 7:45 AM

comment #10

Me says ...

I'm not sure I get the whole blame the schlubs thing (other than this is a way for Jeff to use every story he reads as an excuse for talking about how much he hates the idea of S3). It's pretty clear that the only way a movie can make this sort of money is to hit all audience markets. Families went to this thing, as did men and women on dates, old people, etc. Face facts, you can blame the geeks if you want, but the truth of the matter is Spidey appeals to just about everyone but bitter old coots.

Posted by Me at May 7, 2007 8:33 AM

comment #11

DTD says ...

jcal, maybe she does. But I don't believe in an afterlife, so I guess we'll never know.

Posted by DTD at May 7, 2007 8:38 AM

comment #12

MickTravis says ...

So now Mike White is attributing to Apatow "the humor of the bullies" ? For a guy who seems to lead a charmed existence, fueled by mostly unimpressive work, he certainly seems to have his panties in a wad lately.

Posted by MickTravis at May 7, 2007 8:53 AM

comment #13

GKLondon says ...

I don't think that Rogen was referring solely to schlubs. I think the death of accountability is an epidemic and can be found anywhere you want to look for it. To meet an individual willing to be responsible for their actions and able to either defend them or accept the repercussions is an increasingly rare thing. I think it is the great modern tragedy, and have seen infantile behavior from people of all ages and all walks of life. Look at the constant scapegoating in modern politics or the "boo hoo I've a drinking/prescription drug/substance abuse problem, poor me" lifestyle that is celebrated by modern culture.

Posted by GKLondon at May 7, 2007 8:56 AM

comment #14

christian says ...

the characters actually reference SPIDER MAN 3 in KNOCKED UP? what kind of weird cross promotion is that?

but jeff you're barking up the wrong tree.

CHILDREN are the major market for SP3.

CHILDREN who want to see heroes save the world.

CHILDREN free of cynicism.

CHILDREN jeff.

what would you have them see? MIAMI VICE?

Posted by christian at May 7, 2007 9:09 AM

comment #15

Bocephus says ...

I have to let Jeff off the hook this time, Spiderman 3 suuuuuuucked.

Posted by Bocephus at May 7, 2007 9:23 AM

comment #16

nola says ...

I'm freaking sick of this whole man/child thing. when is it going to end?!

Posted by nola at May 7, 2007 9:25 AM

comment #17

The Winchester says ...

This post really felt like a stretch, but I'm so glad Jeff managed to trash Spiderman 3 and the "mouthbreathers" who contributed to it. Wow. $148 million of shlub money. At least it's not "Fanboy" money, right Wells?

Posted by The Winchester at May 7, 2007 9:44 AM

comment #18

Geoff says ...

HEY, I HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN SPIDER MAN 3!!! GOOD FOR ME!!!!!

Posted by Geoff at May 7, 2007 10:31 AM

comment #19

christian says ...

that makes two of us.

Posted by christian at May 7, 2007 10:47 AM

comment #20

WJ says ...

It's the schlubs of the world which keep those in the entertainment business, including you Jeff, alive. Combined with their counterpart, the lobotomized housewife, they keep everyone from studio execs to bottom dweller commentators in business.

You sound like you've never spent a Saturday in your boxers watching television, Jeff. What a poor, pitiful life full of brow beatings and â€œseriousâ€ films like Lucky You...

I don't plan to see Spider-Man 3 either, but it's the type of movie that isn't supposed to be "good." It's supposed to wow the audience with its epic scale and cheesy special effects (ala Deluge, The Ten Commandments, and Star Wars). Give it a rest, Jeff.

Posted by WJ at May 7, 2007 11:38 AM

comment #21

Joshua Mooney says ...

Hey you bastards, Why's it open season on Jeff because he trashed Spiderman 3 before it opened? How hard was THAT to do? I hear it sucks. Big fucking surprise. I've never seen any of the Spiderman movies, but I don't need to. I just look at the DVD covers and I want to throw up.

Posted by Joshua Mooney at May 7, 2007 1:48 PM

comment #22

bmcintire says ...

Jeff,
How exactly would you care to pidgeonhole the 'Schlubs" outside of the United States who racked up an estimated $227M into Spiderman's coffers over the last week? And not that I care to troll over the last five years' posts, but did you spew as much vitriol over the last two installments? Becasue the first two films are the only reason anyone went to see the third. The hope/expectation that it would be as enjoyable as the previous movies got butts in seats, not a multi-million-dollar ad campaign, not a bloated CG effects budget, not the (questionable) marquee value of any of its stars. I was no great cheerleader for the first two, but I enjoyed them more than I have most comic-book adapatations. My expectations were on that level, and they were not met (by a pretty fair margin). But under no circumstances was I thinking (or anticipating) that it would be as bad as it was. And have I missed your actual review of it? All that I have read so far has been your pre-release invective and moaning about everyone else having gone to see it.

Posted by bmcintire at May 7, 2007 1:52 PM

comment #23

Alan Cerny says ...

It's open season because instead of the movie, Wells chooses to attack the filmgoers who saw it. It's the very definition of elitist. And I'm normally a fan of elitism, but in this case, Wells deserves all the vitriol thrown his way.

SPIDER-MAN 3 is in no way great, but it's not right to knock people who were going in at least hoping for a fun day at the movies with the family. What a prick.

Posted by Alan Cerny at May 7, 2007 2:19 PM

comment #24

jeffmcm says ...

"I just look at the DVD covers and I want to throw up."

What a strange reaction. Do you have irritable bowel syndrome?

Of course, the reason Wells hasn't written a review of Spider-Man 3 is because he still has not seen it, and that happened because he was disinvited to press screenings, and _that_ happened because of how vitriolic he was leading up to the release.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 7, 2007 3:03 PM

comment #25

Joshua Mooney says ...

I'm awfully sorry, "jeffmcm." Mine was a paraphrase of a famous quote from the '70s. I forget that most people aren't as literate as I am when it comes to pop culture. I'm certain that if you "google" it, you'll get it. Again, apologies all around. No muss, no fuss. (Oh hell, I guess you'll have to "google" that one as well! Where will it end, eh?)

"I just look at the DVD covers and I want to throw up."

What a strange reaction. Do you have irritable bowel syndrome?

Posted by: jeffmcm at May 7, 2007 03:03 PM

Posted by Joshua Mooney at May 7, 2007 3:25 PM

comment #26

jeffmcm says ...

I was only ribbing your hyperbole, but then I tried googling "I look at" and "I want to throw up" and it send back about a hundred disparate quotes. Either your mysterious 70s pop-culture reference is so embedded into the culture that it's everywhere, or it's not as big of a reference as you think.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 7, 2007 3:58 PM

comment #27

Dan Revill says ...

JW: Blah blah blah blah...SM3 sucks...blah blah blah.

Everyone-else: JW sucks. Blah blah blah blah blah. You're a failure. Blah blah blah.

I think I've distilled this conversation down to its base. Who really comes here to read about blockbusters? Wells knows good films when it comes to stuff he likes...and I'm fine with that.

Posted by Dan Revill at May 7, 2007 4:39 PM

comment #28

Mike Binder says ...

Hey Hoyk. Love the rewrite. I also got to say, sorry Jeff, but I liked Spidey3. It's a comic book movie. Give me a break. I read the reviews and laugh. Grown up men and women trying to make sense and getting all bothered about coincedences while reviewing a movie about a guy with SPIDER POWERS!!!! Jeeez.. Give me a break. There's damn fine filmmaking in some of those shot. Better each time. It was funny and fast and I'm sorry but what do you want? That's what those movies are supposed to do.

As far as shlubs in the movies? I vote yes. Big yes.

I'm sorry Jeff but Apatow and that group are doing the best stuff in studio comedy right now. Don't knock them. Applaud them. Next thing you know you'll take on Eddie...

Live clean
Binder

Posted by Mike Binder at May 7, 2007 5:11 PM

comment #29

jeffmcm says ...

Hey Mr. Binder, I finally saw Reign Over Me last weekend. Nice work.

Posted by jeffmcm at May 7, 2007 5:16 PM

comment #30

The Hoyk says ...

Thanks for the compliment, Mike. I caught up with REIGN OVER ME as well a couple weeks ago, and loved it, though not as much as THE UPSIDE OF ANGER. What I like most is that there's no standard antagonist, just people expressing their love in extremely flawed ways.

I love to bookend that ANGER speech with Jean Smart's vivisection of Stephen Rea in Audrey Wells' GUINEVERE - it's like the two sides of how the sexes view the whole May/December thing. And increasingly apropo as I myself get older and start wrestling with whether to date younger women.

Any chance you can pester Disney into doing new DVDs of CROSSING THE BRIDGE and INDIAN SUMMER; I'd love to hear you talk at length about these two earlier efforts.

Posted by The Hoyk at May 7, 2007 5:35 PM

comment #31

nola says ...

Hoyk - as a woman younger than Ms. smart but older than Paris Hilton, I thought that scene in GUINEVERE was deep. Scathing really. You are right it does make a nice book end to Joan Allen's scene in ANGER, which was fantastic.

Most of the men I know who have married much younger women do like that the women are not their peers. What these women forget is one day when they are still healthy at 30/40 their husband is going to be 60/70. I have one friend who's 70 something husbad had to have a hip replaced. Not fun stuff to deal with in your 30s and now they are having all kinds of tension in their marriage.

Posted by nola at May 7, 2007 6:10 PM

comment #32

Craig Kennedy says ...

I'm sorry Jeff, but you can't lay $150 million only at the feet of shlubs. The movie obviously had a much broader appeal than you give it credit for. Just because it turns out the movie sucks is irrelevent since most of the people who saw it this weekend were hoping for another Spider-Man 2. Surely even you don't hate that one, do you?

Posted by Craig Kennedy at May 7, 2007 6:14 PM

comment #33

bmcintire says ...

Spiderman 3 was ANYTHING but fast, and that I think was its undoing. The same plots from the last two movies (the guilt of Uncle Ben's death, the pending engagement, Harry's revenge) kept cropping back up and then getting pushed aside for long, long stretches - even using a ridiculous amnesia device to back-burner one of them for a full hour. And ridiculous coincidence smacks of script-writer's laziness (regardless of the genre). They couldn't have found a better, plot- or revenge-driven way to introduce the black goo? Seriously? The tedium plus the stupidity inherent in this script was truly ass-numbing.

Posted by bmcintire at May 7, 2007 6:27 PM

comment #34

christian says ...

"Grown up men and women trying to make sense and getting all bothered about coincedences while reviewing a movie about a guy with SPIDER POWERS!!!!"

on one level, yeah; on another, that doesn't excuse shoddy storytelling, even if it's "only" aimed at children.

harlan ellison wrote a nice essay in his book of movie reviews about the "it's only a cartoon" theory in art and entertainment.

Posted by christian at May 7, 2007 7:10 PM

comment #35

Joshua Mooney says ...

Oh, it's big. BLLLAAAAGGHHH! Give ya hint: Give 'em enough rope. I guess you're young and all. Still, kids today need to know history. Or maybe they don't? Heh. I guess I don't give a shit what kids need today! Wow. Sense of freedom sudden-like. Levity. Me nearing almost 40. Weightless, I still can't come with the SSRI's. Kidz, they gotta stub their noses like everybody else. They don't know how good they have it. Bastids!

[I was only ribbing your hyperbole, but then I tried googling "I look at" and "I want to throw up" and it send back about a hundred disparate quotes. Either your mysterious 70s pop-culture reference is so embedded into the culture that it's everywhere, or it's not as big of a reference as you think.

Posted by: jeffmcm at May 7, 2007 03:58 PM]

Posted by Joshua Mooney at May 7, 2007 8:50 PM

comment #36

Joshua Mooney says ...

Ah well! Dig, Alan: here's the rub. Ya can't be a fair-weather elitist. In for a penny, in for a pound, eh? Jeff Wells understands that this is the way the cookie crumbles. It's his-- how do you say?-- raisin detter? Mind you get hip, lad.

[It's open season because instead of the movie, Wells chooses to attack the filmgoers who saw it. It's the very definition of elitist. And I'm normally a fan of elitism, but in this case, Wells deserves all the vitriol thrown his way.

SPIDER-MAN 3 is in no way great, but it's not right to knock people who were going in at least hoping for a fun day at the movies with the family. What a prick.

Posted by: Alan Cerny at May 7, 2007 02:19 PM]

Posted by Joshua Mooney at May 7, 2007 9:03 PM

comment #37

Bocephus says ...

Sorry Mike, but Spiderman 3 was even a failure as a comic book movie. The pacing was terrible, the special effects were too fake, the script was awful, and the performances were shit.

Kirsten Dunst ruined Mary Jane (a character who is a total firecracker in the books, and Peter's biggest cheerleader, and Dunst played her as a self-centered nag). We get yet another depressed, emo Peter Parker (who is supposed to be a wise-cracker with boundless optimism). The villains were ruined; Sandman was burdened with bullshit sentimentality and Venom got shafted in the time department. He really should have gotten his own movie. Three villains is too many, has anyone learned anything from the early Batman movies?

Posted by Bocephus at May 8, 2007 9:17 AM

comment #38

jeffmcm says ...

There were three villains in Batman Begins - Ra's al Ghul, the Scarecrow, and Falcone (4 if you count both vesions of RAG).

Posted by jeffmcm at May 8, 2007 6:26 PM

comment #39

Mike Binder says ...

Okay, you're right Bocephus. It sucked. I was just kissing up anyway. Thanks

Live Clean

Posted by Mike Binder at May 8, 2007 7:56 PM

comment #40

iamjoe says ...

That was too funny, Binder. Thanks,for the laugh. I just spit up Moutain Dew on my laptop.

-J

Posted by iamjoe at May 9, 2007 3:57 PM

comment #41

Spacelamb says ...

I might be the only one here, but is anyone else sick of all the generic beauties in movies these days? I want to see more 'average' people on the screen, because most of these 'good-looking' types look so much like each other that I can't tell who they are. BTW, I usually agree with JW but best not to bite the hand that feeds, Jeff, because the people you lump into the "schlub" group are the bulk of your readers!

Posted by Spacelamb at May 9, 2007 8:04 PM

comment #42

christian says ...

i think today's "actresses" are the worst bland melrose cyphers around -- all the jessicas, and all the dyed blond bimbettes with no skills. look at the limited pool of young female talent tarantino thought would work in DEATH PROOF...

Posted by christian at May 10, 2007 9:55 AM

comment #43