comment #1

jeffmcm says ...

Utter nonsense from a writer who clearly has not seen any of the movies they're talking about. The victims of violence in Hostel were primarily men; the violence in Planet Terror is cartoonish and not meant to evoke actual suffering; and the 15 seconds of violence in Death Proof hardly count as 'torture porn'.

comment #2

Bilge says ...

Not sure why anyone thinks it's on the wane. The key works of the torture porn oeuvre are SAW and HOSTEL. Both have sequels coming. Both sequels will probably do very, very well. I'm not particularly happy about this, but no recent developments suggest that the genre is on a downswing.

It would help, obviously, if people didn't make the mistake of thinking GRINDHOUSE was torture porn. But then again everything would be better if people weren't totally stupid.

comment #3

Noah says ...

The only reason I don't enjoy the torture porn flicks is because they're not scary. It's not scary to watch some get tortured, it's way scarier to imagine it.

comment #4

JD says ...

This writer is really grasping at straws and her complete and utter ignorance on this topic is illustrated by her use of films like Boxing Helena and A Clockwork Orange to make her points ("I saw two violent movies once and this is what they taught me..."). Why get into the particulars of tone, context, irony or any of the other relelavnt issues when you can stir-up mis-informed moral outrage with shallow, inaccurate observations. Like Jeffmcm said, no women were murdered in Hostel -- although one did jump in front of a subway -- but why bother seeing the movie when you can twist the words of the director (talking about a different movie alogether).

comment #5

jeffmcm says ...

Two women were run down by a car in Hostel - by the protagonist.

Uh, Spoiler!

comment #6

Geoff says ...

Death Proof shouldn't even be mentioned. If you've seen the film you would know why.

When talking about women and violence on screen, I always think about DePalma. He was always labeled as being misogynistic, but he would always say that he'd rather shoot a beautiful woman running around in distress any day rather than some guy. Plus, women in his films are always beautiful....But this is about "torture porn" I guess, so I'm kind of off topic.

comment #7

gruver1 says ...

Wells to jeffmcm: I'm seen "Saw" and "Hostel"...do I need to see the whole cavalcade?

comment #8

berg says ...

So isn't CAPTIVITY directed by Roland Joffe director of Killing Fields and The Mission ... I wouldn't call those films listed torture porn, but then again just because some nutty brit writer coins a phrase don't make it so ... I thought I was going to read an article about some web porn sites where women dressed as nuns beat Kurt Russell's ass red and then cave his face in with their high heels ... So what is Year of the Dog? Animal porn?

comment #9

D.Z. says ...

I think it's a form of revenge for geeks who can't get laid. It's not a new genre, though, since they got away with that crap in the Guinea Pig flicks Charlie Sheen watched. But the films described in the article aren't really trying to be exploitive as much as "cool". They're not really trying to make you sick or horrified. They're just trying to outdo one another on the violence they can get away with without having to be given an NC 17.

comment #10

jeffmcm says ...

Thanks for asking! I think the important point to make is that some of these films operate very differently from each other. I would agree that films like Chaos, Turistas, and the Saw sequels really have no reason to exist except as showcases for gory spectacle; that said, as the article is correct to point out, they're nothing new going all the way back to Blood Feast, 44 years ago. Of the older movies on the list, Last House on the Left is the only one I would recommend, and that's in large part because the ghosts of Vietnam/Altamont/Kent State hovers over it like a banshee.

However, other films redeem themselves through decent plotting or performances or whatever it takes to be more than _just_ spectacle. The original Saw at least had an interesting twisty plot. Devil's Rejects and Hostel have a certain wit and charm to their nastiness - TDR in particular has some very funny performances and dialogue. I didn't like Wolf Creek but it was more of a standard slasher thriller, not a gore showcase movie.

Saw 1 is much better than Saw 2 or 3. Turistas is boring and dumb. And I don't know what other movies would qualify under this subgenre.

The important distinction, I would say, is that

comment #11

JD says ...

"Two women were run down by a car in Hostel - by the protagonist."

Yes, but they weren't the victims of torture in the film, they were facilitating it. The suggestion of the article is that "torture porn" is all about wallowing in the torture of women. Now, this does appear to be the aim of Hostel 2, but Hostel was very deliberately intended to show misogynistic young American men getting punished by the women they aim to exploit. If anything, the film is anti-men... and this extends to the fact that the people paying to torture other people are all men.

comment #12

actionman says ...

the recent remake of The Hills Have Eyes (not the sequel) was one of the nastiest movies I've seen in a long, long time...that one was torture porn to the extreme. mean, mean shit. Wolf Creek was another. by know, the Saw movies are almost a parody of the genre. Hostel was trash though, I didn't like that movie at all.

comment #13

jeffmcm says ...

Whoops, sorry for those last few lines, should have previewed.

comment #14

jeffmcm says ...

I disagree about The Hills Have Eyes remake. It was nasty, but the characters being victimized were people we liked.
Actionman, you constantly surprise me with what you like and don't like.

comment #15

Craig Kennedy says ...

I'm no expert on the genre she's complaining about...I've seen the first couple of Saw movies and that's about it, but she really just comes off as a killjoy with an old feminist bone to pick. She's saying the same things that people have been saying about horror movies for decades only this time she's got the slick new label of 'torture porn' to slap on it and get the readers' attention.

The thing is, she lost all credibility when she dragged Grindhouse into the argument, especially Death Proof. You might be able to make the argument that Planet Terror is misogynist, but it isn't what I think of as torture porn.

comment #16

berg says ...

there was a film at SXSW called Borderland, that was based on the Matamores drug smuggling/human sacrifice cult, that blows movies like Turistas and the endless sequels out of the water

comment #17

JD says ...

Doesn't anyone pay attention to the formal aspects of filmmaking anymore. For all their weaknesses, Wolf Creek and The Hills Have Eyes were really artful, well-crafted movies (hell, I'd watch them again for their scores alone, both of which are really interesting and unusual). The quality of the filmmaking in these movies is far better than the average Hollywood blockbuster and yet all people want to talk about is the violence. You people do realize that the violence in these movies is SUPPOSED TO BE UNPLEASANT, right? Isn't that more responsible than slick, pleasurable movie violence? And if you're squeamish about movie violence in the first place, why are going to see horror films?

comment #18

le corbeau says ...

What can we expect after Bush and Rumsfeld scandalized the world by introducing the concept of torture at Guantanamo Ghraib.

comment #19

jeffmcm says ...

That's a puzzling comment, Mgmax. I think I know what you mean, but would you elaborate?

comment #20

actionman says ...

jeff--didn't really enjoy Wolf Creek but sort of enjoyed The Hills Have Eyes...the directing and cinematography were intense. And yes...i know I have eclectic taste in movies...i like a little bit of everything pretty much. Glad I keep you guessing.

comment #21

gruver1 says ...

Wells to JD: "Wolf Creek" was a solid, believable, exceptionally well-made film...no question. When things get to that level, it obviously elevates itself out of the torture-porn realm.

comment #22

actionman says ...

eh---i wouldnt go that far with Wolf Creek. It was "well-made" and all that...but it was just so unrelentingly nihilistic that even I had some questions about the filmmaker's motives...go read Ebert's review of the movie, he really had some passionate comments about Wolf Creek. I much prefer something like The Devil's Rejects or The Hills Have Eyes to Wolf Creek.

comment #23

The Movie Man says ...

I agree that THE HILLS HAVE EYES (remake) and THE DEVIL'S REJECTS are a notch or two above the films that are generally referred to as "torture porn" (can we all agree to discontinue that idiotic, oh so trendy phrase?) These films are made with some artistry and craft, and create suspense beyond their inevitable torture scenes. But, admittedly, they are totally ridiculous.

I think Roth, Zombie, and Aja all have it in them to do something memorable with the genre if they would be willing to put away childish things (and risk box office) and take some chances and (dare I say it) actually make a film that plays on our anxieties more than our collective knowledge of prior films.

That's why I thought HOSTEL was disappointing, I think Roth had some potential with the subject matter, a horror film that addresses the typical American's idiotic self-entitlement and how that bites him in the ass, but Roth had to chase the money, and turned it into a cartoon.

But the horror genre is doing fine, with or without them. We have Del Toro, we have Cronenberg, and THE DESCENT last year was terrific, showing promise in Neil Marshall. And the best film so far this year is a horror movie...THE HOST.

comment #24

jeffmcm says ...

Cronenberg hasn't made a true horror movie since The Fly, 21 years ago. Dead Ringers and Spider are psychological dramas.

But The Descent was excellent, and someday hopefully Del Toro will stop making Hellboys and do a Lovecraft adaptation.

comment #25

Arran says ...

I can't see how anyone could label Devil's Rejects torture porn. You may find it scummy and unpleasant, but torture porn it is not.

comment #26

The Movie Man says ...

Jeffmcm-True. But I was using Cronenberg in the broader sense that he makes films that tackle various subjects of societal unease, and that that is the direction more filmmakers should take the genre in.

I agree about Del Toro, I am a little diappointed that he's following Pan with Hellboy 2 and I would love to see his Mountains of Madness.

comment #27

le corbeau says ...

You want a good Lovecraft movie? Stuart (Reanimator) Gordon's Dagon. Yes, it's still in his horror comedy vein (there are times it's the answer to the question, what if Jerry Lewis had made The Shadow over Innsmouth) but when it gets down to serious business it's dead-on Lovecraft.

comment #28

jeffmcm says ...

Hey, I agree with both of you! Dagon is a really good movie, and I would love it if more directors took the Cronenberg approach to horror.

That said, I would really prefer if more young horror directors would just not be idiots, what we need are more simple, decent, scary horror movies that aren't simple-minded gross-outs like the Saw sequels. More movies like The Others or Dead Silence that aren't great poetic art but get the job done with atmosphere and a modicum of style.

comment #29

LYTrules says ...

"simple-minded gross-outs like the Saw sequels."?

While the Saw sequels do feature creative gross-outs as their main draw, the central performances by Tobin Bell and Shawnee Smith are far from simple-minded -- they're complex, well-drawn characters with understandable motivations, especially once part 3 reveals everything about the previous 2.

Hey, don't take my word for it -- Scott Foundas wrote that Saw 3 had more to say about guilt, forgiveness, and redemption than BABEL. I was very proud to have him as my editor when I saw that.

Anyway, I love the Saw movies. And I think they're quite distinct from movies about rape. I love slasher and grindhouse flicks, but never found anything meritorious about I Spit on Your Grave or Chaos. Irreversible is a different story.

comment #30

Nate West says ...

Whether the author of this article has a precise grip on the details of her subject or not, it's clear that fanboy "delight" in movies that feature scenes of torture and little else is not demonstrative of sound mental health. I assume that the audience for such films is primarily young and male, but what exactly attracts them? It would make for an interesting psychological study. I imagine that those who enjoy playing video games in which people are shot and killed over and over again are prime candidates for this type of cinema. A mad scientist could not design a better desensitization and dehumanization program if he tried. What a world.

comment #31

Thrudvangar says ...

Severance is really good but the humor helps that flick. I enjoyed Creep also. The Descent is by far the best of all "torture porn" though.

comment #32

Rich S. says ...

A little off topic, but I was rather stunned when I saw the trailer for the remake of Halloween on Grindhouse and I was not completely outraged. I still think the movie is wholly unnecessary, but it's clear, from the trailer at least, that Zombie has a real affection and respect for the source. The worst part will be the inevitable barrage of pointless, repetitive and increasingly violent sequels.

The author's reference to Grindhouse shows pretty much conclusively that she either: a) didn't see Grindhouse, or b) has no idea what torture porn is.

comment #33

rgmax99 says ...

The Pirates of the Caribbean flicks are the best examples of torture porn. Horrific stuff.

I took my pre-teen son to see Dean Man's Chest and whatever the other one was called. Both times, he was bored senseless. We left 60 minutes into both of the them. And each time, he had to wake me from napping in my seat.

comment #34

TL says ...

This sort of "tisk, tisk"-ing passes muster at the Guardian these days? All around lame article; author obviously has an axe to grind against Tarrantino and was looking for whatever specious way to grind it. That she doesn't even mention the sub-genre's most egregious examples or venture beyond the mere descriptive is telling.

comment #35

Craig Kennedy says ...

Rich S. I had the exact same reaction to the Halloween trailer. I was steeling myself for outrage and it never came.

I'd just as soon they never remade it, but I can sort of understand the impulse (besides greed): What was scary 25-30 years ago just doesn't play anymore.

I'm a little curious to see if Zombie brings anything new and interesting to the table or if he'll just ramp up the violence and intensity to modern standards.

comment #36

christian says ...

as somebody who grew up watching the most violent genre films, i simply reached a point where i no longer want to see copius amounts of painful gore.

some of you can tsk-tsk about old fogies not getting it or what have you, but today's torture porn is mass-marketed, produced by major studios and minor talent and reveal a sickening soul.

yes, 9-11 and george bush's torture policies reflect this anti-life attitude. reality tv is another aspect, with people wallowing in mild controlled torture. marketing is right up there as most ads these days are filled with pain and humiliation. that's called contempt.

GRINDHOUSE is not torture porn as it's so deliberately over the top and clearly on the side of the female folk. HOSTEL is on the side of the torturers, even if the victims are "only men."

good for actionman! there's hope for the yuts of america.

comment #37

actionman says ...

i never once suggested that i loved these types of movies...i thought the hills have eyes and the devils rejects were well directed thrillers...that's all. i have utterly no use for 95% of the "horror" movies that hollywood spews forth.

comment #38

Hallick says ...

"HOSTEL is on the side of the torturers, even if the victims are "only men."

I don't know how you come to that point when there's nothing to cheer on the torturers' side of the ledger. The tourists are loutish or passively clueless, but the torturers and their associates are still the ones the movie wants you to grow to hate and then cheer the demises of when an American has a chance to get revenge. The situation as I saw it was basically, "yeah we're assholes on foreign soil, but these eastern european lowlifes are creepy heartless scum who really have to die".

comment #39

Hallick says ...

I'm not even sure I agree with the name "torture porn". At the very least, its more like "auto-erotic torture filmmaking", which doesn't sound much different, but I think there's a distinction between what filmmakers make for themselves versus the way audiences react to the proceedings. It's the filmmakers that always appear to be getting ginormous jollies from their ideas more than filmgoers.

comment #40

frankbooth says ...

Cj,

Judging from the script that's been floating around online (which has probably been re-written, but it's anough to let you know where he's coming from), ramping up the violence and kill-count is exactly what he's going to do. That and throw in lots of cute wink-wink cameos. And draw out the first tweny minutes to fill up half the run time.

Zombie should have re-made Last House, if anything. That's more his cup of sleazy sadism. Even Friday the 13th would have been better, since there's nothing there to screw up.

Too bad, because he did show some talent with Rejects, mess that it was overall.

comment #41

Craig Kennedy says ...

The more I hear about it, the less I like it.

comment #42

christian says ...

zombie already sorta remade LAST HOUSE with DEVIL'S REJECTS. which i thought was nearly art and a true grindhouse film. i wish he was making something new of his own.

comment #43

The Movie Man says ...

I have to say again that I hate the phrase "torture porn" and that its kind of absurd to loop THE DESCENT in with that. I can't recall the scene in that film where the bat people strap someone in a chair and take a power drill to them.

The first third of HOSTEL and portions of CABIN FEVER show that Eli Roth has a decent movie in him if he can keep his frat boy indugences in check, but that's a big if.

Good call Christian on DR, though I think Zombie was even more directly channeling TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE 2.