Mother and child at "Hostel, Part II"

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The last film I saw at Cinevegas last night was Eli Roth's Hostel, Part II. God, what a heartless and vile thing to sit through. It's a real shame because Roth is an above-average filmmaker. He's got real talent and good instincts, but his head and his soul are in the sewer.

The house was almost completely full. The crowd was 95% twentysomethings. Couples, mainly. I was standing off to the left side, and something realy weird happened about 20 minutes before the end. A short Hispanic woman in her late '20s carrying a daughter -- a little over a year old, maybe 14 or 15 months -- came in and stood next to me. A woman who may have been her mother was with her.

Actresses were screaming for their lives, black-red blood was flowing and a bad guy was getting his dick cut off (this produced the only loud "ewwwww!" reaction from the crowd), and the Hispanic mom was letting her 15-month-old daughter watch it. And the kid was reacting from time to time, making little sounds.

I was always pretty liberal about what I let my kids see when they were young, but you never take kids to a movie like Hostel, Part II, for Chrissake. That Hispanic mom is a degenerate -- that's all there is to it. She's trash.

I was convulsing with disgust as I stood next to her and listened to her kid make those little goo-goo noises. I was asking myself how representative she might be of working-class moms these days. I turned around and stared at her three or four times. I couldn't believe it, but there she was and there they were -- three generations of female moviegoers watching torture porn.

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on June 9, 2007 at 12:59 PM

comment #1

Dan Revill says ...

You have a moral compass in there! Man, I wish we lived in the same town. I'd go buy a bottle of the finest wine, give it to you and then leave.

Anyhow, in all seriousness, I am in agreement that there is no way a kid should be exposed to that sort of film, no matter what age. True the 14 month old mind may not recall it in the long run, but is it worth taking that risk?

Posted by Dan Revill at June 9, 2007 1:14 PM

comment #2

lesterg says ...

I'm pretty liberal about this stuff as well, but it's clear some of these kids would be better off raised by wolves.

On the plus side: Hostel tanked!

Posted by lesterg at June 9, 2007 1:28 PM

comment #3

George Prager says ...

Doctors day that kids shouldn't look at tv until they are 2 years old. Something tells me that the TV has been this poor kid's constant companion since birth. Reminds me of the family I saw at an IKEA giving their 3 year-old half a bottle of Coca-Cola to suck down like it was mother's milk.

Posted by George Prager at June 9, 2007 1:32 PM

comment #4

Deege says ...

Horrible, but I can't say that I'm shocked. Young (and not so young) parents are behaving so wrecklessly when it comes to their children these days. This is just one of thousands of examples happening on a daily basis.

Posted by Deege at June 9, 2007 1:35 PM

comment #5

vansmith says ...

alot of these parents dont or cant afford babysitters all of the time so from time to time you'll see them in theaters with toddlers because its too hot to stay home all the time, no excuse she could have chosen shreck..

Posted by vansmith at June 9, 2007 1:45 PM

comment #6

D.Z. says ...

Yeah, I was pissed when someone brought a crying baby to Grindhouse, until I sat through Death Proof and realized I preferred the kid over the boring actresses.

Posted by D.Z. at June 9, 2007 1:56 PM

comment #7

BurmaShave says ...

To quote my idol, There you go again! By the way, if you're going to call us degenerates, please refer to us at Latinos, maricon.

Posted by BurmaShave at June 9, 2007 2:00 PM

comment #8

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Lesterberg,

Even if H2 ends up with *only* a $10 million opening weekend, it will have already easily covered its miniscule budget. Tanked, my ass!

Whattadouche.

Posted by CitizenKanedforChewingGum at June 9, 2007 2:02 PM

comment #9

lesterg says ...

And what was the marketing budget? What % does Lionsgate keep of the opening weekend receipts?

Regardless, it's going to open to less than 50% of the original.

Posted by lesterg at June 9, 2007 2:06 PM

comment #10

George Prager says ...

$10 million for a horror movie with this kind of pedigree? That's a textbook definition of tanking.
So it tanked.

Posted by George Prager at June 9, 2007 2:08 PM

comment #11

lesterg says ...

Or about equal with the first film's SECOND weekend.

Posted by lesterg at June 9, 2007 2:10 PM

comment #12

Wrecktum says ...

A one year old probably couldn't process what it was seeing. If the kid were three or four then I'd share your disgust.

Posted by Wrecktum at June 9, 2007 2:22 PM

comment #13

jeffmcm says ...

"this kind of pedigree"? I thought everyone hated it and Roth, so not much of a pedigree at all.

A $10m opening for a hardcore horror movie with no stars, and which will clean up on video, in the middle of the summer, is just fine. They would have made more if they had opened in January or September but they took the gamble.

I also really like the mental image I have of a decrepit-looking middle-aged man standing on the side of a movie theater, watching a confused Latina woman with her kid, and 'convulsing' with disgust while everyone else in the theater is oblivious.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 2:37 PM

comment #14

D.Z. says ...

jeff: "A $10m opening for a hardcore horror movie with no stars, and which will clean up on video, in the middle of the summer, is just fine."

Perhaps, but they were clearly expecting $20 million, and it might bode badly for them on Saw 4 million, since, like New Line in the 80s, those films are the only thing profitable for LG.

"I also really like the mental image I have of a decrepit-looking middle-aged man standing on the side of a movie theater, watching a confused Latina woman with her kid, and 'convulsing' with disgust while everyone else in the theater is oblivious"

If you don't understand how the other Jeff feels, maybe you should sit next to more parents who bring children to R-rated movies.

Posted by D.Z. at June 9, 2007 2:51 PM

comment #15

bmcintire says ...

It was much the same during the re-release of THE EXORCIST a few years ago. I thought I had stumbled into one of those McDonaldland rooms - little kids running around and playing in the front row while their parents sat up in the nosebleed section. To everyone's credit, there was a pretty even mix of black, white and Latino trash representin'!

Posted by bmcintire at June 9, 2007 2:58 PM

comment #16

George Prager says ...

I just heard that jeffmcm is bringing a screener DVD of Hostel II to Kansas to show to the family of Kelsey Smith. Have fun jeff!

Posted by George Prager at June 9, 2007 3:23 PM

comment #17

Noah says ...

Wow, I really like that Jeff felt it was important to tell us several times that the mother was Hispanic.

Posted by Noah at June 9, 2007 3:44 PM

comment #18

Craig Kennedy says ...

That woman is disgusting, but why did you have to go and mention her ethnicity since it's really not relevant? I'm not trying to be overly sensitive, but you know it's just asking for trouble, right?

Posted by Craig Kennedy at June 9, 2007 3:47 PM

comment #19

Hallick says ...

"A short White woman in her late '20s carrying a daughter...and the White mom was letting her 15-month-old daughter watch it...That White mom is a degenerate..."

No, that isn't what was actually written, but do you see how stupid repeatedly pointing out the skin color sounds with the tables turned? A clueless dolt is a clueless dolt in any pigment. And forget about what babies can see at that age, they sure as hell can HEAR the shit too.

Oh well...I think there used to be a Smiths song that sums it all up for Jeff:

Hispanics on the streets of Vegas
Hispanics, Hostel II and a baby
I wonder to myself
Is torture porn good for a newborn...

Posted by Hallick at June 9, 2007 4:15 PM

comment #20

BurmaShave says ...

Bigmouth Strikes Again

Posted by BurmaShave at June 9, 2007 4:25 PM

comment #21

The Winchester says ...

Trash?!? In Vegas?!?

Posted by The Winchester at June 9, 2007 4:41 PM

comment #22

jeffmcm says ...

DZ: Sure, they were expecting $20m. So?
And the Saw movies are terrible, but I will be surprised if Saw IV doesn't make a crapload of money this October as well. Captivity, on the other hand, will probably sink like a rock.

Also, you misunderstand my Wells comment. Obviously the woman was an idiot, but the notion of Wells, standing there shaking and 'convulsing' in disgust, is pretty funny too. You know that he looks like a child molester in person, right?

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 4:49 PM

comment #23

Joe Leydon says ...

Er, and you know what child molesters look like, Jeffmcm?

Posted by Joe Leydon at June 9, 2007 4:57 PM

comment #24

MPNeeb says ...

I remember screaming children (babies) when I saw Natural Born Killers. Wouldn't be surprised if the Mom was one of them...

Posted by MPNeeb at June 9, 2007 4:57 PM

comment #25

jeffmcm says ...

Joe: they look like creepy middle-aged men who show up alone to public places and lurk about the fringes staring at those around them.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 5:05 PM

comment #26

Joe Leydon says ...

Sound like most of the film critics I know.

Posted by Joe Leydon at June 9, 2007 5:07 PM

comment #27

jeffmcm says ...

I can't disagree.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 5:13 PM

comment #28

tholl-yung says ...

BurmaShave, I saw a guy in LA today wearing a black, expensive looking t-shirt with bold graphical images of human forms and a large typefaced slogan that read: "I ain't no Latino, I ain't no Hispanic, I'm Mexican." Kind of cute, no? Any knowledge if it's connected to something larger, or just a random t-shirt on the streets of LA?

Posted by tholl-yung at June 9, 2007 5:18 PM

comment #29

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"If you don't understand how the other Jeff feels, maybe you should sit next to more parents who bring children to R-rated movies."

D.Z. giving tips on empathy?! Join us next week when our "wacky" Jewish accountant tells us how you can blow money on your next vacation...guilt-free!

I stand by my original point of Hostel 2 not tanking, tho. Sure, it won't meet LG's expectations, but they should have known better than to expect too much in the middle of June, anyway. The first one opened in early January, a proven good time for horror movies but also a serious dump zone. It made almost $50 million in theaters, which is more than TEN times what it cost. Yeah, LG may be disappointed, but the receipts from the first movie have kept them going for some time.

Disappointing? Yes. Tank? No, sir. Also remember this movie has NO stars to speak of.

Thank you.

Posted by CitizenKanedforChewingGum at June 9, 2007 5:31 PM

comment #30

BurmaShave says ...

T.Holly, was this man Antonio Villaraigosa by any chance? Also, in the spirit of Jeff, did the T-shirt look like it had a nice high European thread-count?

Posted by BurmaShave at June 9, 2007 5:36 PM

comment #31

scooterzz says ...

t.holly-- yesterday on the train from noho to h&h i saw four people wearing that shirt...i'm wonderin' about it's source also (guess i could've asked..d'oh)...

Posted by scooterzz at June 9, 2007 5:36 PM

comment #32

D.Z. says ...

T.Holly: "BurmaShave, I saw a guy in LA today wearing a black, expensive looking t-shirt with bold graphical images of human forms and a large typefaced slogan that read: "I ain't no Latino, I ain't no Hispanic, I'm Mexican." Kind of cute, no? Any knowledge if it's connected to something larger, or just a random t-shirt on the streets of LA?"

It's nothing new. I've seen those for a while. You also see the kids wearin' Scarface shirts every once in a while.

jeff: "Sure, they were expecting $20m. So?"

So it pretty much means Roth's career's in the toilet. It must be the Grindhouse curse. Rodriguez will probably be next, if he hasn't already with Shark Boy...

"And the Saw movies are terrible, but I will be surprised if Saw IV doesn't make a crapload of money this October as well."

It might, or people might get tired of it by the fourth installment. Look at what happened with Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Halloween.

CitizenKane: "D.Z. giving tips on empathy?! Join us next week when our "wacky" Jewish accountant tells us how you can blow money on your next vacation...guilt-free!"

I care, just not when it comes to cretins and idiots.

Posted by D.Z. at June 9, 2007 5:53 PM

comment #33

Joe Leydon says ...

Jeffmcm: I'm sure you'll enjoy this one.

Years ago, when the animated "Transformers: The Movie" opened without press previews, I bought a ticket to the first matinee screening on opening day. I sat in a theater by myself. Children (accompanied by parents, of course) were scattered all around me, but the seats near me were empty. A child of 4 or 5 came running into the theater -- and, for whatever reason, decided to sit next to me. As soon as his butt hit the seat, I could hear his mom SCREAMING behind me: "NO!! DON'T SIT THERE!!!!" He jumped up and joined her in the aisle. She never looked at me, but I looked at her. She looked absolutely, positively TERRIFIED. She clutched her little boy close, then walked several rows forward before taking a seat.

Jeez. Did I look THAT threatening?

Posted by Joe Leydon at June 9, 2007 6:00 PM

comment #34

jeffmcm says ...

DZ:

Friday the 13th 3: $36.6 million
Friday the 13th 4: $32.9 million

Nightmare on Elm Street 3: $44.8m
Nightmare on Elm Street 4: $49.4m

Halloween 3: $14.4m
Halloween 4: $17.8m

Next you'll be trying to convince us that Austin Powers 1 wasn't a hit theatrically.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 6:03 PM

comment #35

jeffmcm says ...

Joe: that's kind of how I felt when I went to see Bridge to Terabithia, alone, a few months back. Of course I also whipped it out, so who knows.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 6:04 PM

comment #36

Tom says ...

Wow, Jeff, racist much? Does it matter what the woman's race was? Irresponsible parenting is irresponsible parenting. Why did you feel need to to call attention to her ethnicity, and three times at that? You're a schmuck.

Posted by Tom at June 9, 2007 6:14 PM

comment #37

D.Z. says ...

jeff: People still stopped watching those films after the fourth installments. Sure, in some cases, they made slightly more money than the third films, but with higher PTA, they were clearly less profitable. And Austin Powers wasn't a hit. The sequels were, but that's only because of those midnight showings. Wayne's World was a hit. Shrek was a hit. Austin Powers, though was a disappointment for Meyers.

Posted by D.Z. at June 9, 2007 7:04 PM

comment #38

jeffmcm says ...

DZ, that's blatantly wrong. Before being rebooted, there were 6 Halloweens, 6 Nightmare on Elm Streets, and 9 Friday the 13ths. They wouldn't have continued to be made if they weren't profitable.

Re: Austin Powers: you are either lying to me, or to yourself. Which is it? I see no need to give you the obvious evidence as to why you are wrong for the third or fourth time.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 7:08 PM

comment #39

jeffmcm says ...

By the way, I want to point something out: my original point was that I expect Saw 4 to make a lot of money this October. I don't think that would be a good thing because I don't care for the Saw franchise, so on that subject I think we're in agreement. DZ, you could have just said 'people might get tired of it after a while' and that would have been the end of the discussion, but instead you decided to try and prove the point by basing your argument on something nonexistent, the idea that those three horror franchises collapsed after their third installment. And now you have to resort to semantics and rhetorical tap-dancing to legitimize your empty claim. A person honestly interested in discussion over these issues would have simply said 'they didn't end at the fourth movie but they ended eventually' and end of discussion. Instead, you persisted out of stubbornness and arrogance.

That's annoying.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 7:17 PM

comment #40

tholl-yung says ...

Tom, it's not nearly as irresponsible as carting in bussloads of CYO groups to see POTC. Do you think POTC helped open the door to more torpor?

Posted by tholl-yung at June 9, 2007 7:20 PM

comment #41

Hallick says ...

"Jeez. Did I look THAT threatening?"

Only from behind, which means you have the most menacing nape in cinema.

Posted by Hallick at June 9, 2007 7:20 PM

comment #42

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Yes, the 1st Austin Powers was a financial disappointment...on Mars where D.Z. resides.

Incidentally, Lam's Fire (City, School, Prison) is the highest grossing trilogy there. Also, the viewing of anything Tarantino is restricted by law.

Go figure.

Posted by CitizenKanedforChewingGum at June 9, 2007 7:24 PM

comment #43

jeffmcm says ...

I wish it was Mars, they have really shitty wi-fi there and he would post less frequently.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 7:29 PM

comment #44

le corbeau says ...

"Austin Powers, though was a disappointment for Meyers."

Austin Powers was moderately successful. I don't know what the actual figures were, but it wasn't a blockbuster, it was the kind of movie that did all right, especially for the off-season (if I recall correctly, it was a spring release, or maybe a fall one). Coming off of So I Married An Axe Murderer, that was far from a disappointment for Myers.

What made it a franchise, though, was popularity on video and cable. In particular, it was one of the first movies to make a big deal of deleted scenes on the DVD. So while he's wrong to portray it as a bomb, he's not wrong to portray it as a movie that gained audience on video and picked up steam for a sequel that it didn't really have in its theatrical release.

As for the single-guy-can't-help-feeling-like-a-molester-in-this-crowd kind of thing, I can remember when I was 18 or 20 theaters would show things like Ray Harryhausen movies or Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea to keep the kiddies occupied while Mom shopped. First of all, it's amazing now to think that just as recently as the late 70s/early 80s, parents were still OK with dropping off their 6-year-olds in a dark theater alone. Second of all, it's amazing that I could always talk my way into the shows, free, as essentially an adult with no kid of my own, convincing them that I was the kind of Famous Monsters of Filmland geek who was just there for the Dynamation, not a perv. (Which is especially ironic if you really know anything about F.J.A., but...)

Posted by le corbeau at June 9, 2007 7:53 PM

comment #45

BurmaShave says ...

D.Z., there you go beating that old Austin Powers wasn't sucessful drum again. Just utter bullshit. I wouldn't have thought you'd been thoroughly schooled on that by now.

Posted by BurmaShave at June 9, 2007 7:56 PM

comment #46

D.Z. says ...

jeff: They made more sequels because they were cheap, not because they were continuously successful.

Citizen: Considering it was coming hot off of the success of Wayne's World, it was a disappointment.

Posted by D.Z. at June 9, 2007 8:04 PM

comment #47

jeffmcm says ...

DZ: That's totally illogical. You don't spend millions of dollars on something like Friday the 13th Part 7 because it's cheaper than spending tens of millions of dollars on Top Gun 2. You spend that money because, at the time, they knew they would garner a profit. Eventually the profits ran out, but it didn't happen until the early 90s on each of those three franchises.

Wayne's World 2 and So I Married an Axe Murderer were the disappointments coming after Wayne's World 1. Austin Powers was the comeback.

Stop lying.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 8:09 PM

comment #48

le corbeau says ...

"Considering it was coming hot off of the success of Wayne's World, it was a disappointment."

Five years later is not really "hot off the success." It was coming off a four-year period in which Myers didn't make a movie, and before that, the relative disappointment of Wayne World's 2 and the absolute disappointment of ...Axe Murderer. In any reasonable sense, it was a comeback hit that reestablished Myers as a uniquely creative figure in 90s comedy.

Posted by le corbeau at June 9, 2007 8:12 PM

comment #49

lazarus says ...

Just to make sure there's no wiggle room for D.Z., here are the cold facts:

Wayne's World made $120 million
Wayne's World 2, 1 year later, made just under $50 million That's underperforming.
The same year, So I Married an Axe Murderer makes just over $10 million, which would seem to illustrate that not only were viewers burnt out on Wayne's World, but Myers wasn't able to carry a different film on his own.

As mentioned above, after a break from film of 4 years, Myers comes back with Austin Powers, which hits the mid-50 million range, outgrossing Axe Murderer AND Wayne's World 2. Considering the character was new to audiences, and the grosses of the two Myers films before it, this has to be considered a pretty big success. Now were the suits hoping for Wayne's World numbers? Sure, but I doubt they expected it, considering what happened afterwards.

The insane numbers of Spy Who Shagged Me makes Austin 1 look like a bomb by comparison, but that just isn't the case.

I do agree with his argument about the diminishing returns of horror franchises, but no, he shouldn't have made some sweeping claim about the fourth film being the breaking point.

Posted by lazarus at June 9, 2007 8:21 PM

comment #50

Ogami Itto says ...

"I was always pretty liberal about what I let my kids see when they were young, but you never take kids to a movie like Hostel, Part II, for Chrissake. That Hispanic mom is a degenerate -- that's all there is to it. She's trash."

Yeah, you're pretty liberal Wells, except when it comes to racial and ethnic issues. Was the Hispanic mom and her Hispanic child overweight and/or low-income? We all know how much you like those sorts ...

Posted by Ogami Itto at June 9, 2007 8:32 PM

comment #51

RoyBatty says ...

God save us from the liberal watch dogs who seem to want to prove every right-wing nutjob's paranoid delusions about "PC thought police" by jumping down Well's throat for discribing the woman he saw in journalistic fashion. Come back when you have a list of times he has discribed other unknown women and left off their ethnicity if you are going to start labeling people racists. Wonder what howls for his blood there would have been if he had called her brown trash, which is what she sounds like and the rest of us will be dealing with the lack of her parenting skills later.

Meanwhile, anyone else want to wager some ducets that D.Z. made up the crying baby just so he could attempt his lame witticism about DEATH PROOF to further his pathelogical obsession with Tarantino? Can someone sneak over and take a pic through the window of his apartment to confirm that there is a big Anti-Quentin shrine around a big poster of QT with "The Evil One" emblazened over it?

Posted by RoyBatty at June 9, 2007 8:45 PM

comment #52

jeffmcm says ...

We all know that horror franchises diminish over time. My original point was that the Saw series has yet to reach that point:

domestic grosses/ production budget:
Saw: $55.2/ $1.2
Saw II: $87/ $4
Saw III: $80.2/ $10

If Saw IV grosses half as much and costs twice as much, it'll still be profitable enough (thanks to international and video) for a Saw V to be inevitable.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 8:51 PM

comment #53

tholl-yung says ...

Yeah, what do you want Ogami, he said she was short. Wasn't that enought for you? But he got it all wrong -- while I'm sure it was a disturbing sight at a disgusting movie, making for a foul mood and some screaming writing, the baby was clueless. Had it been crying, it MAY have been due to the frightening experience, but it wasn't. I'm about as convinced the baby was harmed as I am that reading to your baby in the womb makes it smarter.

Posted by tholl-yung at June 9, 2007 9:38 PM

comment #54

erniesouchak says ...

This reminds me of a time I saw a couple with 2 kids in tow, a toddler and a boy who looked about 5, paying to see "Robocop." Let's face it: lots of people have kids because they want to have kids, not because they want to be parents.

Posted by erniesouchak at June 9, 2007 9:50 PM

comment #55

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "Coming off of So I Married An Axe Murderer, that was far from a disappointment for Myers."

So I Married an Axe Murderer wasn't really meant to be big like AP, though. It was clearly just a paycheck movie.

"It was coming off a four-year period in which Myers didn't make a movie, and before that, the relative disappointment of Wayne World's 2 and the absolute disappointment of ...Axe Murderer." In any reasonable sense, it was a comeback hit that reestablished Myers as a uniquely creative figure in 90s comedy."

AP wasn't really a comeback for Myers or a hit.It was just a blip on his movie career which gained steam through the sequels. In that sense, it was clearly the opposite of Wayne's World. Anyway, no one called Forrest Gump a comeback movie for Hanks, even though he hadn't headlined a hit on his own since "Big".

jeff: "DZ: That's totally illogical. You don't spend millions of dollars on something like Friday the 13th Part 7 because it's cheaper than spending tens of millions of dollars on Top Gun 2."

If you can't get Cruise to do a Top Gun 2, then it's quite logical. Look what happened when Fox couldn't get Keanu to do a sequel to Speed. And sequels don't always do that well, even with the same talent attached to them.

"You spend that money because, at the time, they knew they would garner a profit."

You spend that money, because you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, since it's an established name. By your logic, Darkman 2 and 3 were made because the first one was profitable.

"Wayne's World 2 and So I Married an Axe Murderer were the disappointments coming after Wayne's World 1."

Wayne's World 2 had a better PTA than Austin Powers and a bigger opening. It probably also got more instant profit on home video and cable than Austin Powers.

iazarus: "Wayne's World made $120 million
Wayne's World 2, 1 year later, made just under $50 million That's underperforming."

That's what happens when you release a sequel so close to the last film. Saw got away with it, but for how long? But for what it's worth, WW2 did make its money back pretty fast, which is more than can be said for AP.

Roy: "Meanwhile, anyone else want to wager some ducets that D.Z. made up the crying baby just so he could attempt his lame witticism about DEATH PROOF to further his pathelogical obsession with Tarantino?"

I wish I did, but it's true. I noticed he/she was crying mostly through the second half, so I'm guessing he/she was as bored as me.

Posted by D.Z. at June 9, 2007 9:54 PM

comment #56

jeffmcm says ...

What is wrong with you?

Posted by jeffmcm at June 9, 2007 10:03 PM

comment #57

BurmaShave says ...

Is it possible that D.Z. is a short Hispanic woman?

Posted by BurmaShave at June 9, 2007 10:10 PM

comment #58

Craptastic says ...

I'm not defending Wells by making this statement but let me tell you...I worked in a movie theater through four years of college and for some strange reason hispanic men and women bring their babies to horror movies. I don't know what it is... maybe lack of money for a sitter? I'm not a racist and this is not a racist comment (I'm not out to offend anyone)... its simply a fact.

My fellow ushers and I used to make bets as to how many hispanic babies we would see on the opening night of the latest horror movie... and more than not-- the higher bet would win.

And the weird part about it is: it was always for horror films. This would never happen during a Disney movie or any atypical "family friendly" flick.

I wish someone would do a study on this or at least an article (not unlike the L.A. Weekly's article on why Mexican kids love Morrissey so much).

So, yeah, Wells made a point of mentioning the race more than once... all I'm saying is: I'm not surprised. Would love to find out why though...

Posted by Craptastic at June 9, 2007 10:21 PM

comment #59

Noah says ...

D.Z., I really feel like you might have some kind of mental disability so I feel sorry for saying this, but are you nuts? I'm only going to take on one of your ridiculous comments and this this one:

"Anyway, no one called Forrest Gump a comeback movie for Hanks, even though he hadn't headlined a hit on his own since "Big". "

Forrest Gump came a year after he won the Academy Award for the very successful Philadelphia. So that comment makes no sense whatsoever. Have a good night.

Posted by Noah at June 9, 2007 10:50 PM

comment #60

Hallick says ...

"I'm not defending Wells by making this statement but let me tell you...I worked in a movie theater through four years of college and for some strange reason hispanic men and women bring their babies to horror movies. I don't know what it is... maybe lack of money for a sitter? I'm not a racist and this is not a racist comment (I'm not out to offend anyone)... its simply a fact."

The same point is addressed in Gustavo Arellano's book "Ask a Mexican!", a collection of his columns for the OC Weekly. And ironically, the movie that got singled out for the question? Hostel part I.

Here's the link (not very explanatory, but still amusing):
http://www.ocweekly.com/columns/ask-a-mexican/ask-a-mexican/25595/

Posted by Hallick at June 9, 2007 11:06 PM

comment #61

Hallick says ...

"Forrest Gump came a year after he won the Academy Award for the very successful Philadelphia. So that comment makes no sense whatsoever."

Especially in light of the fact that he had the hit that was "Sleepless in Seattle" even before "Philadelphia". In the same year. His star was shooting pretty brightly by the time "Forrest Gump" saw the light of day.

Posted by Hallick at June 9, 2007 11:12 PM

comment #62

christian says ...

there really is no point in debating dz on facts because dz has no point except to give jeffmcm a slow coronary:

AUSTIN POWERS cost 17 million, grossed 55 million in theaters, and made millions more on tape disc leading to gazillion dollar box office for the admittedly lame sequels. the first AP was never expected to be WAYNE'S WORLD and a profit of 32 million plus marks it a success. it remains myers smartest film, but that's another thread...we were talking about...what?

Posted by christian at June 9, 2007 11:45 PM

comment #63

Ogami Itto says ...

"My fellow ushers and I used to make bets as to how many hispanic babies we would see on the opening night of the latest horror movie... and more than not-- the higher bet would win."

Yeah, that's funny. When I worked as a part-time groundskeeper at our city's public park my co-workers and I used to make bets as to how many African-American families would eat watermelon at their picnics. Those colored people are such a fucking hoot ... hardy har har.

Posted by Ogami Itto at June 10, 2007 12:39 AM

comment #64

jeffmcm says ...

Back to the actual theme, I just got back from seeing Hostel 2. It was okay. Roth's directorial skills have improved, but he's still kind of crude; the narrative suffers from being split between two different sets of characters; one story is a somewhat tedious retread of the first movie, the other story is significantly more interesting. The gore, thanks to all the discussion all this past week, was overhyped and felt relatively tame in comparison with Saw III/300/etc.

But it's not the vacuous piece of cinematic offal that the movie's detractors (most of whom have not seen it) would prefer to think.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 10, 2007 1:04 AM

comment #65

Craptastic says ...

Thanks Hallick! Yeah, that is REALLY bizarre that the film in question is the first Hostel. Its come full circle!

And Ogami... calm down. I clearly stated that I'm not trying to be racist or make a joke. Its an observation. Yes, I've seen shit-headed white people do the same thing... but I unfortunately have to say that the very large majority of people who bring their babies in theaters, from my experience, are hispanic.

I think Wells was trying to make a very unsubtle, crude point by saying thrice that the person/people in question were hispanic...and that I don't agree with. But, I'm saying that the fact that they were does not surprise me.

Posted by Craptastic at June 10, 2007 1:31 AM

comment #66

D.Z. says ...

Noah: "Forrest Gump came a year after he won the Academy Award for the very successful Philadelphia. So that comment makes no sense whatsoever."

Actually, Philadelphia's box office was average-not huge. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107818/business .And it was a movie with him and Denzel sharing the spotlight, not a movie where he was the sole reason audiences saw the film.

Hallick: "Especially in light of the fact that he had the hit that was "Sleepless in Seattle" even before "Philadelphia"."

Sleepless in Seattle had him paired up with Meg Ryan, which helped attract the female demo, which means, once again, audiences didn't see it specifically for him.

christian: "the first AP was never expected to be WAYNE'S WORLD"

No, but the advertising indicated they were aiming in that direction for the film.

Posted by D.Z. at June 10, 2007 2:04 AM

comment #67

Noah says ...

"No, but the advertising indicated they were aiming in that direction for the film."

Really? The advertising was trying to sell audiences on the movie so that it could be a big hit? That's what the movie studio was trying to do in advertising their film?

And according to your ridiculous logic D.Z., Forrest Gump was really a success because of Gary Sinise (helped bring in the limbless) and Robin Wright (helped bring in the blondes). And of course, the success of Apollo 13 was because of Bill Paxton and Kevin Bacon. And the success of The Green Mile was because of Michael Clarke Duncan. And Cast Away was because of Wilson.

Posted by Noah at June 10, 2007 3:34 AM

comment #68

jeffmcm says ...

A $77 million dollar gross in 1993 was 'average'. Bullshit. That gross made Philadelphia the 12th highest-grossing movie of that year, not to mention that it made $200+ worldwide. For perspective, the 12th highest-grossing movie of 2006 was Talladega Nights, which made $148 million. Which was a big hit.

But of course, you already knew that, DZ, because you saw the same information, but merely chose to frame it in your typical 'flat fact/not open to debate' manner, so that what you say is always true.

Fundamentally dishonest.

Posted by jeffmcm at June 10, 2007 3:44 AM

comment #69

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

If a D.Z. post is left on the net, and nobody reads it, does he really exist?

Posted by CitizenKanedforChewingGum at June 10, 2007 4:23 AM

comment #70

The Movie Man says ...

TO: ALL POSTERS
RE: D.Z.

PLEASE STOP HUMORING HIM. HE'S EITHER AN IDIOT OR SOMEONE HAVING FUN WITH YOU. HE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE SAID FUN UNTIL YOU IGNORE HIM.

THANK YOU.

P.S. THOUGH I AM PROUD OF EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU FOR AT LEAST NOT TAKING THE LAME (AND OBLIGATORY) QT BAIT.

Posted by The Movie Man at June 10, 2007 5:51 AM

comment #71

Ogami Itto says ...

Craptastic, I'm just playing with you. When I went to see "Passion of the Christ" there was a family of Latinos sitting in the row in front of us with, yes, a crying baby, and two small children around 4 or 5. Its a stereotype based in fact.

But Wells didn't need to point out the woman's ethnicity over and over again. Trash comes in many colors.

Posted by Ogami Itto at June 10, 2007 6:03 AM

comment #72

Ogami Itto says ...

Hey DZ, what do you think of the derogatory remarks Tarantino recently made about the state of Italian cinema? Apparently many Italians (including Sofia Loren) weren't too pleased.

Posted by Ogami Itto at June 10, 2007 6:06 AM

comment #73

George Prager says ...

The term sado-masochism comes to mind when I think about what happened on this thread last night.

Posted by George Prager at June 10, 2007 6:50 AM

comment #74

BurmaShave says ...

I've never been more of a Tarantino fan than when I read that. Some of his finest work. My favorite was something along the lines of how all Italian is now stories about "retards on vacation".

Posted by BurmaShave at June 10, 2007 7:14 AM

comment #75

BurmaShave says ...

I've never been more of a Tarantino fan than when I read that. Some of his finest work. My favorite was something along the lines of how all Italian is now stories about "retards on vacation". Which I can only hope is the title of his next film.

Posted by BurmaShave at June 10, 2007 7:14 AM

comment #76

BurmaShave says ...

How the hell did that happen? I am retarded, but I am at home.

Posted by BurmaShave at June 10, 2007 7:16 AM

comment #77

le corbeau says ...

Blacks talk during movies, Latinos bring the whole extended family to action flicks obviously inappropriate for kids, so do white trash, old people talk during movies, young people talk on the phone during movies. There, I just said what we all know and can't say.

Yeah, try to think of an Italian film made since Fellini died that doesn't prove Tarantino's point in spades. I love great Italian cinema as much as anything, but somewhere around Cinema Paradiso it went brain-dead or decided it was a branch of the tourism office or something.

Posted by le corbeau at June 10, 2007 7:44 AM

comment #78

Ogami Itto says ...

"Yeah, try to think of an Italian film made since Fellini died that doesn't prove Tarantino's point in spades. I love great Italian cinema as much as anything, but somewhere around Cinema Paradiso it went brain-dead or decided it was a branch of the tourism office or something."

I agree. What surprised me was the level of vitriol directed against a guy who was asked a question and gave what was presumably his honest opinion. Are the Italians hypersensitive because they know QT has a good point?

Posted by Ogami Itto at June 10, 2007 7:54 AM

comment #79

christian says ...

and in the south, anglo families with babies flocked to see jesus torture porn in that one film by whathisname...

Posted by christian at June 10, 2007 8:33 AM

comment #80

christian says ...

and the la times calls in to announce a dead genre:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-horror9jun09,0,5297245.story?coll=la-home-center

Posted by christian at June 10, 2007 8:54 AM

comment #81

Craig Kennedy says ...

Really it's a class issue, not a race issue isn't it?

Sure, poor people aren't any more likely than rich people to suffer delusions of entitlement that make them think there is no reason to alter their carefree, self-centered lifestyles just because they have a kid to raise, but they're less likely to be able to afford to foist off the responsibility of raising their children on someone else.

The problem is bad parenting by selfish, stupid people and it afflicts all classes. We're just more likely to see it in public with poor people.

If the lower class in your community is dominated by a certain ethnicity, then who are you most likely to see dragging infants to horror movies?

Posted by Craig Kennedy at June 10, 2007 9:18 AM

comment #82

Craptastic says ...

That's a good point,cj.

I have a friend who has a one year old... he and his wife couldn't find a sitter one night and decided to try and take the baby with them to dinner (not knowing how he would react-- the baby is relatively calm) and the baby FLIPPED OUT the second they got there. They immediately left-- not wanting to become "one of them" as he stated-- and swore that he would never do it again. Unfortunately, there arn't enough people like him and his wife out there with the manners to see the situation for what it is.

That's what's always bothered me... can't these people SEE that they're annoying the living shit out of 500+ people when their baby starts going ape-shit in a theater? How are THEY even able to enjoy the movie with the puke machine slurring its words like a drunken sailor?

Outside of manners, I also blame the VCR/DVD Age for the lack of consideration at movie theaters. People have become more used to watching a movie at home-- therein being able to do whatever they want (mainly talk).... and, unfortunately, that carries over into the theater.

Posted by Craptastic at June 10, 2007 11:54 AM

comment #83

Flyertaxi says ...

It is a well known fact that D.Z. regularly attends movies with his mommy. Look how well he's turning out!

Posted by Flyertaxi at June 10, 2007 12:15 PM

comment #84

lesterg says ...

"Disappointment or Bomb" debate aside - Hostel 2 grossed 8.7M. That's about 1.2 million less than the original's second weekend.

Posted by lesterg at June 10, 2007 1:40 PM

comment #85

le corbeau says ...

"Really it's a class issue, not a race issue isn't it?"

Friend of mine flew the Concorde once. He was appalled at how trashed the plane was after a mere three hours in flight-- rich trash throwing their garbage in the aisles as they stuffed their faces.

Posted by le corbeau at June 10, 2007 2:08 PM

comment #86

Nate West says ...

Perhaps she wandered into HOSTEL with her family in search of lodging.

Posted by Nate West at June 10, 2007 2:48 PM

comment #87

Craig Kennedy says ...

You know Craptastic, I think most parents are like your friend. As with most things, it only takes a few jerk-offs to make everyone else look bad.

Mgmax, I hope I worded what I said carefully enough so as not to appear to suggest I think rich people are somehow less annoying or better parents than poor people. They simply have the resources to deal with their problem in a way that doesn't impact the rest of us.

Posted by Craig Kennedy at June 10, 2007 5:29 PM

comment #88

le corbeau says ...

CJ, I'm shocked that you've become so heartless, so racist, so unfeeling... in short, REPUBLICAN.

Posted by le corbeau at June 10, 2007 7:11 PM

comment #89

BurmaShave says ...

Christian actually makes a brilliant point about PASSION OF THE CHRIST and torture porn. That really pushed the limits of gore more than any mainstream movie I'd seen at the time. It also confirmed my belief that Mel Gibson was the craziest and also one of the most gifted living filmmakers, but that's another matter.

Point is, where was the indignation when church groups and families were taking their kids to see Christ flayed and beaten?

Posted by BurmaShave at June 10, 2007 9:15 PM

comment #90

Craig Kennedy says ...

Sorry Mgmax, Republicans don't corner the market on heartlessness. Is there a party for me if I believe in reproductive responsibilities as well as rights?

Posted by Craig Kennedy at June 10, 2007 10:10 PM

comment #91

D.Z. says ...

Noah: "And according to your ridiculous logic D.Z., Forrest Gump was really a success because of Gary Sinise (helped bring in the limbless) and Robin Wright (helped bring in the blondes). And of course, the success of Apollo 13 was because of Bill Paxton and Kevin Bacon. And the success of The Green Mile was because of Michael Clarke Duncan. And Cast Away was because of Wilson."

My argument is that, up until Forrest Gump, the only film which succeeded on Hanks' name alone was Big.

jeff: "A $77 million dollar gross in 1993 was 'average'. Bullshit. That gross made Philadelphia the 12th highest-grossing movie of that year,"

That was a crappy year at the box office, though. In fact, more crappy than 2005, because back then it was big-name actors attached to bombs instead of big-name directors.

"not to mention that it made $200+ worldwide."

Technically, $120 m worldwide. But that just means
that, at the time, he was a bigger draw there than here.

Ogami: "Hey DZ, what do you think of the derogatory remarks Tarantino recently made about the state of Italian cinema? Apparently many Italians (including Sofia Loren) weren't too pleased."

I'm guessing he's disappointed, because he really wants them to make more films like Caligula and less films like The Best of Youth. Or maybe he's just pissed that they're subbed, since he dropped out of high school precisely because he hates to read, and is hoping that they once again dub their films into English like Leone.

Posted by D.Z. at June 10, 2007 10:18 PM

comment #92

frankbooth says ...

Wells looks like a child molester? Wait, how would you know? Does this mean you actually made it to the Dog and Pony or Cat and Canary or whateverthefuck Hickenlooper's favorite watering hole is called?

So what happened? Break the veil of fucking silence, already. Don't be an anecdote-hoarding stingy bastard.

Posted by frankbooth at June 11, 2007 1:42 AM

comment #93

hatchling says ...

Stupidity knows no ethnic boundaries, Jeff.

I'm a parent and a former teacher. I KNOW how easily and deeply kids process things they see. It's not always evident at first, especially when they watch something horrific, because under the age of three, the kids don't quite understand what it is they're watching. But the experience often sticks in their subconscious and can emerge in future years is unexpected ways, including nightmares, animal cruelty, agressive behavior or it's opposite, fearfulness.

Young kids should not be exposed to films with disturbing images, period.

Posted by hatchling at June 11, 2007 8:27 AM

comment #94

Bocephus says ...

"Young kids should not be exposed to films with disturbing images, period."

Disturbing is a bit broad, dont you think? The flying monkeys in Wizard of Oz scared the crap out of me, and don't even get me started about Dark Crystal. I look back very fondly on both films and feel that their disturbing images positively affected my sense of creativity.

There is a difference between simply "disturbing" images and those of sick, violent torture.

Posted by Bocephus at June 11, 2007 8:43 AM

comment #95

christian says ...

since the movie did worse than GRINDHOUSE, i think america is safe from the next wave of tp...

Posted by christian at June 11, 2007 9:18 AM

comment #96

actionman says ...

this doesnt surprise me at all. there are so many stupid parents out there--of all races--its a disgrace to modern-day parenting. but i will say one thing--why is it that almost every time i am at a hard-R film with questionable elements for children, there seems to be a minority parent with a small child watching as well? i mean, it happens ALL the time. at least in Los Angeles

Posted by actionman at June 11, 2007 10:15 AM

comment #97

actionman says ...

and Wells--come on...calling Eli Roth an "above-average filmmaker" is way to high of praise. Eli Roth, to me, is the definition of HACK

Posted by actionman at June 11, 2007 10:17 AM

comment #98

christian says ...

and if actionman thinks somebody is a hack -- ouch!

but he's right about the parents and kids thing --i saw the rebooted EXORCIST at grauman's and i shocked at a family with young, young children being taken in -- maybe it was a catholic thing.

Posted by christian at June 11, 2007 10:35 AM

comment #99