No heroes anywhere

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"You've mentioned that your father served in WW II (Iwo Jima ,wasn't it?). I wasn't close to my father, but he served also. I may not have known him well, but he didn't consider himself a hero, as I suspect your father didn't. We may not always agree, but that's the meaning I took upon reading your parenthetic on 'Iraq war hero.' I don't think Audie Murphy considered himself a hero either." -- HE reader Chuck Wagner.

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on July 26, 2007 at 4:37 PM

comment #1

Walter Sobchak says ...

Sounds like you're back-peddling a bit. Shell-shocked from the reaction?
The above letter is good and the writer has a point. Most soldiers don't think of themselves as "heroes", (except perhaps John Kerry, who fought in Vietnam, btw), but to try to imply that that is what you meant in your original remarks is a bit of a stretch.
I'm guessing (from your other writings) that you have something of a DailyKos-ish view of the current military, that is, that they are either not-very-bright, lower-income rubes who were tricked into joining the military and turned into killers or they are knuckle-dragging, blood-thirsty, flag-wearing yahoos who simply want to "kick some I-rakee ass".
Also, you don't like the Iraq war which is of course understandable. Therefore, it seems odd to you that a soldier participating in this war could ever be thought of as a "hero".
In retrospect, you probably wish you had worded it differently so it didn't sound the way it did.
But don't be so silly as to print the above letter and then say, "oh yeah, that's what I meant.... I said that because the soldiers don't think of themselves as heroes so I won't either..."
Let it go.

Posted by Walter Sobchak at July 26, 2007 5:02 PM

comment #2

MrThompson says ...

What gets me about this whole hoopla is this idea that there is an objective definition of what it is to be a hero. Such a concept seems supercilious to me. The notion of heroism is a direct reflection of the values of the individual. A representative of their ideals. I respect soldiers and what they choose to do, but that choice is in no way one that reflects my values... but I wouldn't be upset if it reflected someone else's, and they choose to regard them as heroes.

Posted by MrThompson at July 26, 2007 5:11 PM

comment #3

StewartforPresident says ...

Jesus jeff, grow some balls and stand by your premise and don't try to hide behind the service of your dad, shit that is something GW would do.

In your post you highlighted Audie Murphy, and then in response to the vitriol that was directed your way, you said "In the Valley of Elah (which I've seen twice) advances the notion that the Iraq War experience is generating a kind of poison that is affecting the souls of the troops "

Don't you think WWII had the same effect on the soldiers that served. Hell, Audie Muphy had PTSD.

Shit its not what wars are fought over that poisons youth, but war by its very nature.

You continue marginalize soldiers that are fighting wars that are funded by, profit and are controlled by your generation. You yourself said you jumped on the anti-war band wagon after boots were on the ground.

"But the overall mission over there is vile, founded upon smoke and lies and neocon delusion, and those being ordered to fulfill it are doomed to failure and, in the long historical sense, ignominy."

See this is what pisses people off, words like soldiers are destined to viewed as dishonorable. Personnaly I think it is chickenhawks like you who blindly supported the war and then turned your back the soldiers once war became unfashionable, as the one who are doomed to ignominy.

Posted by StewartforPresident at July 26, 2007 6:35 PM

comment #4

christian says ...

walter, don't buy into o'reilly's latest cultural purge. markos of the daily kos was actually in the ARMY. he supported reagan and bush one. he was a republican who calls himself a libertarian democrat -- whatever that is -- and the daily kos doesn't slag the military with an evil brush. the site represents very corporatist dems with a narrow agenda that's sometimes more right than left. kos recently wrote a piece praising ah-nold with a big (D) next to his name.

anyway. IRON MAN looks like a hero.

Posted by christian at July 26, 2007 8:32 PM

comment #5