comment #1

Dan Revill says ...

Wow, over $238 million last night. They have to be impressed with themselves.

comment #2

AJW says ...

Since when is The Simpsons a kids movie?

comment #3

Craig Kennedy says ...

AJW, it's animated so it has to be for kids.

comment #4

D.Z. says ...

AJW: "Since when is The Simpsons a kids movie?"

I'm guessing around the time they dumbed down the writing...

comment #5

The Winchester says ...

It's not a kid's movie. But there were a helluva lot of kids at the screening I went to. They didn't get half the jokes. And the teens were too busy talking on their phones to pay any attention.

Can't wait until that theater becomes an Arclight.

comment #6

The Winchester says ...

And I was really hoping that Who's Your Caddy? was gonna pull a surprise number 1 this weekend.

comment #7

D.Z. says ...

Should I be happy that a Sandler movie flopped, or annoyed that The Simpsons will get five more seasons past its expiration date...? Decisions, decisions...

comment #8

Mr. Muckle says ...

Ya still didn't enter Phoenix in spellcheck!!!

comment #9

MASON says ...

Two more classic David Poland predictions.

He predicted the Simpsons would top at 70 mil.

And Transformers at 150 -- if it was lucky.

He should really just stop with the prediction stuff.

comment #10

jackkerouac says ...

D.Z., How exactly is the Sandler movie a flop? It's easily looking at a haul of over $130 million, right in line with his last couple of movies. Wishing something is doesn't make it so.
As for the Simpson's, here's an idea... don't watch and you won't be annoyed. It's still one of the funniest half-hours on television and the movie ain't bad either.

comment #11

AJW says ...

"I'm guessing around the time they dumbed down the writing..."

Juvenile humor is not always intended for juveniles. See: Family Guy, Adam Sandler, etc. Dumbed-down writing just expands the twentysomething and teen audience without necessarily lowering the audience's median age.

comment #12

JohnnyCanuck says ...

"And the teens were too busy talking on their phones to pay any attention."

We had to turn around 4 times during the show to ask the teens behind us to shut up. Also a wonderful group of 20 somethings who liked to explain each joke to each other after the joke happened. "Get it. He's between a rock and a hard place...or, get it, it's the Titanic" I often wonder, do the great unwashed masses get the irony or do they see the Simpsons as just 3 stooges type humour?

Either way, the movie may not be as good as a classic episode - but it was very funny. best line "Now I Liek boys." Hee hee.

comment #13

bmcintire says ...

It DOUBLED it's projections, but this "often happens with kid movies". Apart from the fact that this rarely happens with any movie, care to dredge up the numerous examples of "kid movies" that have accomplished this before?
I get that you have some sort of grudge or deep-seeded dislike for THE SIMPSONS, but your dismissal of the phenom is outright hilarious. The only downside to this movie's success that I can see would be that it might stoke interest in pursuing a SEINFELD movie as well.

comment #14

D.Z. says ...

jack: "D.Z., How exactly is the Sandler movie a flop? It's easily looking at a haul of over $130 million, right in line with his last couple of movies."

It's more like a slightly better take than Spanglish.

AJW: "Juvenile humor is not always intended for juveniles. See: Family Guy, Adam Sandler, etc."

Those examples just contradicted your argument.

"Dumbed-down writing just expands the twentysomething and teen audience without necessarily lowering the audience's median age."

Yes, Transformers clearly appeals to sophisticated and intelligent grown-ups.

comment #15

D.Z. says ...

bmc: "The only downside to this movie's success that I can see would be that it might stoke interest in pursuing a SEINFELD movie as well."

That won't happen, unless Michael Richards can ever get a job in this town again...Well you never know. It worked for D.W. Griffith...

comment #16

Craig Kennedy says ...

I imagine they're now hard at work making a movie out of Wait Till Your Father Gets Home.

comment #17

Me says ...

So, the real question is will this finally convince Oprah to turn her talk show into a movie? That thing's been on forever and people still love it!

comment #18

John Y says ...

Yes, a "kid movie" that received favorable reviews from 88% of film critics.

comment #19

D.Z. says ...

John: "Yes, a "kid movie" that received favorable reviews from 88% of film critics."

Yes, and critics also like Pixar movies; but that doesn't suddenly make them adult fare.

comment #20

John Y says ...

Umm, I don't know about you, but I think "Ratatouille" is one of the most adult films in theaters right now.

Critics like Pixar movies because they work for all age groups, for everyone in the audience. Which is the same reason why critics are giving thumbs up to "The Simpsons."

comment #21

The Winchester says ...

I felt that the penis gag made this movie not suitable for kids.

comment #22

Jay T. says ...

As usual, projection numbers are worthless...

comment #23

jackkerouac says ...

D.Z.: As a long-time reader of this blog but an infrequent commenter, I have to ask just out of curiosity - as far as movies and other popular entertainment goes, what exactly do you like? I cannot remember ever reading a favorable comment on anything from you.

comment #24

jackkerouac says ...

D.Z.: As a long-time reader of this blog but an infrequent commenter, unlike yourself, I have to ask just out of curiosity - in the realm of movies and other popular entertainment, what exactly do you like? I cannot remember ever reading a positive comment on anything from you.

comment #25

D.Z. says ...

"Critics like Pixar movies because they work for all age groups, for everyone in the audience."

They like Pixar movies, because they have a simplistic view of animation as much as the rest of the general public. Hence why they trash films like A Scanner Darkly and Perfect Blue.

comment #26

jackkerouac says ...

sorry about the double post...

comment #27

John Y says ...

Jackkerouac, Wells likes anything by David Fincher or Curtis Hanson, and anything about Iraq. In other words, 1% of all the movies released each year.

comment #28

jackkerouac says ...

There is absolutely nothing, NOTHING, simplistic in 'The Incredibles' or 'Ratatouille" or really, any other Pixar film.
If 'A Scanner Darkly' had not been such a snooze of a story then the movie might have been more appreciated overall by both critics and the movie-going public.

comment #29

jackkerouac says ...

Ah... D.Z. is Wells! The least he could do to make it more interesting is have an alter-ego that is the opposite of who he really is!

comment #30

John Y says ...

Whoops. Jackkerouac, I see your comment was about D.Z. My bad.

D.Z. - Critics didn't trash "A Scanner Darkly"... 73 on Metacritic. And it's a little harsh to call Pixar movies simplistic. True, they make G and PG movies, but their content and artistic approach trumps 99% of the movies Hollywood puts out.

And was "The Triplets of Belleville" a simplistic approach to animation? That movie garnered raves from critics (91 on Metacritc). What about "Millennium Actress"? That got a 70 on Metacritic. What about the enthusiastic reviews for "Paprika" (81 on Metacritic). Or for "Tokyo Godfathers" (73 on Metacritic).

comment #31

John Y says ...

Jackkerouac, I don't think D.Z. is Wells. Although, now that I think about it... hmm...

comment #32

nemo says ...

Might as well face it -- he's never going to spell "Phoenix" correctly.

And the weird thing about it -- he always spells "Joaquin Phoenix" correctly. Maybe he's misspelling it intentionally, as some kind of little inside joke.

comment #33

Rich S. says ...

D.Z. loves Asian cinema and Anime. He believes that all western cinema produced since about 1970 was stolen from one of those two sources. Even if it wasn't, it is not worthy of his time. He has described Shakespeare as "hackneyed." I would get into his politics, but most of the time I have no idea what he is talking about. His favorite conceit is the non-sequitor. He loves to post links to stories that have nothing to do with the thread. No matter what comment you make, he can take parts of the comment out of context to come up with a bizarre retort that has nothing to do with anything you've written. Engage D.Z. in a debate at your peril, because he is doing it only to upset you.

Finally, he hates Quentin Tarantino worse than any human being has hated another human being - ever.

There's your primer on D.Z. Is it Wells? You decide.

comment #34

D.Z. says ...

jack: "There is absolutely nothing, NOTHING, simplistic in 'The Incredibles' or 'Ratatouille" or really, any other Pixar film."

A typical Pixar movie: Quirky animals, objects, or superheroes have angst, conflicts, and other issues, learn to work together to deal with their problems, and live happily ever after.

"If 'A Scanner Darkly' had not been such a snooze of a story then the movie might have been more appreciated overall by both critics and the movie-going public."

Actually, it did pretty well with the public. In fact, better than Waking Life, if you don't count for inflation. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=scannerdarkly.htm

John: "And was "The Triplets of Belleville" a simplistic approach to animation?"

Yes. A Fleischer-throwback with animal abuse does not=creativity.

"What about "Millennium Actress"? That got a 70 on Metacritic. What about the enthusiastic reviews for "Paprika" (81 on Metacritic). Or for "Tokyo Godfathers" (73 on Metacritic)."

The critics who give the strongest reviews for those films are the least prominent and influential in getting these productions seen by a wider audience. The ones who do count would rather gush over the studio kiddy crap.

Rich: "D.Z. loves Asian cinema and Anime. He believes that all western cinema produced since about 1970 was stolen from one of those two sources."

Actually, it's been stolen since '64. (See A Fistful of Dollars.)

"Even if it wasn't, it is not worthy of his time."

Most of it, anyway.

'He has described Shakespeare as "hackneyed."'

Yep, and...?

comment #35

Noah says ...

"'He has described Shakespeare as "hackneyed."'

Yep, and...?"

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

comment #36

jimjonesiii says ...

DZ is funny.

comment #37

JChasse says ...

My son is a high-functioning autistic, and dealing with him over the years has allowed me to put up with much of what DZ has to say about things.

comment #38

messiahcomplexio says ...

Homer was a hack.

comment #39

Ogami Itto says ...

D.Z. doesn't like Pixar movies because there isn't enough gay sex in them:

--
Ok, ok. Basically been pulling my hair out since I read this post, trying to form the perfect list. Here it goesies:

1.Gag the Fag
2.Tie: The Man with the Golden Rod/Black Spank Master 3
3.Rim Shot
4.On Bareback Pond
5.Bareback at the Sauna
6.Muscle Bear Motel (Do not argue with me on this title, it was a GayVN winner)
7.Rural Erections
8.Spunk'd: The Complete First Load
9.Out in Africa 2 (the movie OiA 1 should have been, times a trillion)
10.Bareblacking

And before you argue this list, let me state, The Best of Leather is ok, if you're into extended recap episodes, but Nights in Black Leather is far superior-especially considering that it was remade into Leather Obsession 2: The Sex Pit.

Posted by: Daniel Zelter | November 01, 2006 at 01:41 PM

http://patrickmacias.blogs.com/er/2006/11/post.html

comment #40

christian says ...

btw, i quite enjoyed THE SIMPSONS MOVIE. a lovely way to spend a summer day at the theater.

comment #41

bmcintire says ...

"Actually, it's been stolen since '64. (See A Fistful of Dollars.)" - DZ

And from The Independent 7/28/2007:
Likewise, Sergio Leone's A Fistful of Dollars surprised audiences with its sheer chutzpah: here was a spaghetti Western remake of Akira Kurosawa's Yojimbo. To add to the confusion, Yojimbo was itself (at least partly) a remake of the American film noir The Glass Key, while Kurosawa always acknowledged his debt to the Westerns of John Ford.

comment #42

D.Z. says ...

messiah: "Homer was a hack."

I agree, but that's only because the writing on the show's gotten so stale.

Ogami: Um, that's someone spoofing me.

bmc: The difference is that Kurosawa gave credit where it was due.

comment #43

John Y says ...

D.Z., I'm sure there's no point arguing with you, but... what critics qualify as "prominent and influential"?

Kenneth Turan (LA Times) raved "Millennium Actress."

Lisa Schwarzbaum (Entertainment Weekly), David Ansen (Newsweek), and Manohla Dargis (New York Times) raved "Paprika."

Manohla Dargis and Michael Wilmington (Chicago Tribune) raved "Tokyo Godfathers."

It seems you're living in your own world here, a world where a critic named "D.Z." is the most influential voice when it comes to films. If you world becomes a reality, by all means, do praise these complicated animated films and spread the word.

But you'd hardly be the first, because so many critics have already done just that.

comment #44

jeffmcm says ...

DZ is a master at twisting arguments so that they make just enough sense to satisfy his own twisted ego. It's a good skill to have, to reframe arguments in such a way to make yourself always right, but he's wrong about so many different things that it's impossible to know where to begin, although Shakespeare is a pretty good starting point to know to take absolutely everything that he says as laughable.

Yojimbo came from Hammett's Red Harvest.

comment #45

messiahcomplexio says ...

Not that Homer! I was talking about that hack who wrote the Odyssey! As long as we're running down billy shakespeare...

comment #46

jeffmcm says ...

Homer never credited the oral tradition that he blatantly stole the Iliad from.

comment #47

AJW says ...

"Those examples just contradicted your argument."

Family Guy is aimed at people with juvenile senses of humor, but not children, i.e. not people in elementary school. Have you actually sat through the movie? Is it for children?
Thinking back I probably did see Billy Madison in grade school, but it's still not a children's movie and was meant more for middle schoolers through developmentally challenged twentysomethings.

"Yes, Transformers clearly appeals to sophisticated and intelligent grown-ups."

Why did you bring up Transformers? Did you just switch topics? It's based on a children's toy (not to mention a PG-rated animated movie and Saturday morning cartoon show). Clearly they wanted to draw in children based on the source material while capitalizing on nostalgia from 80s kids. The Simpsons Movie is based on a primetime network television show that's nearly twenty-years-old. Yes, both are rated PG-13, but I would put Transformers along side Disney's Pirates instead of The Simpsons (see, I can bring up random movies also!).

comment #48

Ogami Itto says ...

"Yojimbo came from Hammett's Red Harvest."

That Akira Kurosawa was such a hack; when he wasn't ripping off Red Harvest and The Glass Key, he was stealing from John Ford. What a hackneyed filmmaker.

comment #49

jimjonesiii says ...

DZ is popular.

comment #50

jesse says ...

If we can ignore D.Z.'s one-line distortions-at-best for a moment (I've tried to use things like "facts" and "figures" to argue pretty simple points about Sandler being a box-office draw in broad comedies before... no dice), and get back to Jeff's weird anti-Simpsons thing. Maybe this was covered in the previous post about this, of "fuck Homer Simpson" fame, but I have to wonder if this is an age thing coupled with Jeff's own unique quasi-rebellious pathology. My dad is about Jeff's age -- a bit older -- and he has a real block against animation. It's not that he hates it, or won't ever watch it; just that he doesn't take it seriously. For example, he enjoyed The Incredibles for what it was, but would never call it one of the year's best films, because he says he can't "relate" to animated characters; he doesn't think of them, really, as characters at all... just cartoons, no matter how well-written (nor how close so many live-action movies are to actual cartoonishness). Similarly, though he's certainly seen bits and pieces of Simpsons episodes and chuckled at them here and there, I'm sure he wouldn't care about the movie, because as far as he's concerned, cartoons aren't for adults. He may *know* that thousands or even millions of adults do in fact watch these cartoons, but there's just a mental block there that won't allow him to consider it something *he* would watch.

Then again, I doubt even my dad would be as dismissive as Jeff is of the show. I'm well past wondering if Jeff has ever watched full episodes of the show; I wonder if he's ever even seen clips of it, or read any reviews or articles about it. Like maybe the TIME magazine bit about it being the best TV show ever made (totally agree, even if seasons 10-18 aren't as brilliant as seasons 3-9).

Normally, I think a lot of you out here in comment-land are just as obsessive about 'calling Jeff out' over what really just amounts to personal taste as he is about Jackson-bashing, musical-bashing, etc. But this does eat away at me, because as far as I'm concerned, dismissing The Simpsons is more or less equivalent to dismissing Citizen Kane, or Monty Python, or The fucking Beatles.

Which is to say, it certainly can be done, but you better have a terrific, detailed, amazingly thought-provoking argument on your side to convince me you're not just plain insane.

comment #51

D.Z. says ...

John: Those aren't the critics whose quotes wind up on a poster or dvd cover.

messiahcomplexio: I liked the Odyssey, but Helen of Troy was propaganda for the Greeks.

AJW: "Family Guy is aimed at people with juvenile senses of humor, but not children, i.e. not people in elementary school."

Well not intentionally aimed at children, anyway.

"It's based on a children's toy (not to mention a PG-rated animated movie and Saturday morning cartoon show). Clearly they wanted to draw in children based on the source material while capitalizing on nostalgia from 80s kids.Yes, both are rated PG-13, but I would put Transformers along side Disney's Pirates instead of The Simpsons (see, I can bring up random movies also!)."

You do know The Simpsons was once a children's show, too, right? Now it's just a show for former children who still think it's cool to watch it.

Ogami: "That Akira Kurosawa was such a hack; when he wasn't ripping off Red Harvest and The Glass Key, he was stealing from John Ford. What a hackneyed filmmaker."

Unlike Leone, Kurosawa did more than just copy scenes.

comment #52

christian says ...

anybody else see the movie?

comment #53

The Winchester says ...

"Unlike Leone, Kurosawa did more than just copy scenes."

Like Suntory whiskey ads.

comment #54

D.Z. says ...

Winchester: "Like Suntory whiskey ads."

At least those have more life than the spoof of them in Lost in Translation.

comment #55

Dan Revill says ...

I imagine DZ standing in front of a mirror after all of this attention and doing his best Sally Field impersonation. "You like me! You really like me!"

comment #56

bmcintire says ...

Just caught a completely sold-out late showing, and, not to steal Don Murphy's thunder, but - BIGGEST MOVIE OF THE SUMMER. I think it is going to be a dead-heat between this and that other "kids" movie - SUPERBAD - for funniest film of the year. Absolutely brilliant.

comment #57

mitch says ...

dz: "You do know The Simpsons was once a children's show, too, right?"

you mean like 'life is hell' is meant for children? seriously, dz, do some fact checking next time.

a scanner darkly. pffft.

comment #58

mitch says ...

almost forgot: the simpons movie is the best time I've had at the movies so far this summer. what a treat. woohoo!

I just wish they had...oh nevermind.

comment #59

The Movie Man says ...

Christian-I saw The Simpsons Movie, and I thought it was hilarious, and yes, I'm one of those that think the show has sucked for the better part of a decade. There's not much originality to the movie, and there's little pathos (though I thought the home video scene was moving) but it is a really well executed version of the latter Simpsons, i.e. actually funny. Also, the characters actually act like themselves here, as opposed to the replicants that are currently populating the TV show.

comment #60

christian says ...

agreed.

speaking of non-sequitors, hope to see ALL OF YOU at the
final screening of SKIDOO tonight at the Aero Theater, a double bill with THE PARTY and John Phillip Law in person! Be there.

http://www.modsandrockers.com/schedule.200707291930a.html

comment #61

John Y says ...

Yes, the movie was absolutely wonderful. It reminded me of the glory days of "The Simpsons" (Seasons 1-7).

It's too bad that people like D.Z. and Wells are so stuck up on their chairs of snobbery that they can't enjoy something that's so universally loved. But, then again, what should you expect from cranky old men?

comment #62

Ogami Itto says ...

"speaking of non-sequitors, hope to see ALL OF YOU at the
final screening of SKIDOO tonight at the Aero Theater, a double bill with THE PARTY and John Phillip Law in person! Be there."

Diabolik's gonna be there?! Cool.

comment #63

christian says ...

i would jeff would appreciate the intro scene at the church with homer going off wells-style on religion...

comment #64

christian says ...

that is, i would "think" jeff would etc...

stupid post button.

comment #65

D.Z. says ...

mitch: "you mean like 'life is hell' is meant for children? seriously, dz, do some fact checking next time."

I was referring to the first season, but yeah, when I was a kid, we were checking out the "Hell" comics because of the show. Compared to, say, Love and Rockets or Sin City, Groening's humour was definitely geared more towards the MAD Magazine mindset than other underground comics.

John: "It's too bad that people like D.Z. and Wells are so stuck up on their chairs of snobbery that they can't enjoy something that's so universally loved"

I loved it back in the day; I'm just tired of it now.

comment #66

John Y says ...

D.Z., I agree that "The Simpsons" were better "back in the day," aka the first 6 or so seasons.

But "The Simpsons Movie" reminded me of those wonderful seasons... its jokes succeeds just as oftenly as the show's did when it was at its peak.

comment #67

Titus Pullo says ...

So Wells is still being an asshole trying to earn his high-brow bona fides by dismissively referring to the Simpson's as a 'kid movie' based on nothing except that its animated. I'm going to the sports bar, I'm gonna read Thoreau, but laugh while doing so, and if JW is there his pointy head might explode.

comment #68

le corbeau says ...

I have a feeling a lot of movie folks, because they have a professional reason to see lots and lots of movies, see relatively little TV and don't understand certain shows the way the regular watchers do. If you read Ebert's review of The Simpsons he obviously knows why he's supposed to take the show seriously, but he just as obviously hasn't seen much of it and isn't tuned into its "universe."

comment #69

mitch says ...

I can only speak for myself, but going to the movies and feeling like a kid again is exactly what I want from cinema. I am so thankful that I can still reconnect with my youth. shame wells is so far removed from his. I can only assume that it was not so good.

comment #70

christian says ...

jeff is more like rick in CASABLANCA...disillusioned romantic.

comment #71

christian says ...

minus the nasty smoking.

comment #72

D.Z. says ...

From http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2359&p=.htm :

...While the television series is still a steady performer in its 18th season, it is no longer among the most popular programs. Viewership was 8.6 million on average this past season, according to Nielsen Media Research, which means that more people may have paid to see the movie over the weekend than those who watch a first run episode...