Awful Wiliams theme

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It may be a mistake for the official Indiana Jones site to be using John Williams' almost gruesomely familiar trumpet-solo theme to herald the arrival of Indy 4 movie. For every middle-aged Jones fan who sprays shorts when he hears this anthem, there's probably at least two or three younger viewers who are saying, "Is this some memory-lane theme-park movie or are they making a film that has at least something to do with right now?" (Apart from Shia Le Bouf being in it.)

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on August 13, 2007 at 4:41 PM

comment #1

James Leer says ...

Yeah, not so much, Jeff.

Posted by James Leer at August 13, 2007 5:11 PM

comment #2

Rothchild says ...

You're turning into D.Z.

Posted by Rothchild at August 13, 2007 5:14 PM

comment #3

The Winchester says ...

Kinda like those jerks always using the James Bond theme to herald his return.

I think it makes perfect sense to include the theme of the character, being that it's his theme and there isn't any new music yet. (Although, I'm sure a techno re-make of the Indy theme produced by Bono is probably on the way.)

What would younger viewers be expecting from the resurrection of a 25 year old character?

Posted by The Winchester at August 13, 2007 5:14 PM

comment #4

d.j. says ...

Gotta disagree. That music is so fun that to not use it would be a HUGE mistake.

Posted by d.j. at August 13, 2007 5:15 PM

comment #5

FarleyC says ...

You're way off on this one Jeff....

Posted by FarleyC at August 13, 2007 5:16 PM

comment #6

Wrecktum says ...

When the first trailer for The Phantom Menace came out, they shoulda used Creed.

Posted by Wrecktum at August 13, 2007 5:19 PM

comment #7

MilkMan says ...

I sprayed my shorts when you mentioned the anthem. I can only imagine what Im going to do when I actually hear it. Wait, hold on, I've got my the Raiders soundtrack on my I-Pod. There it is. Here we go...

Oh. Oh. Oh my god. Oh shit. Here it comes. Here it comes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh thats so good. Thats so good. Yes.

Posted by MilkMan at August 13, 2007 5:21 PM

comment #8

The Winchester says ...

That gives a disturbing new meaning to your name, Milkman.

Posted by The Winchester at August 13, 2007 5:24 PM

comment #9

Noah says ...

Once again, Jeff underestimates anybody younger than his age bracket. Kids have been raised on these movies and are still watching those DVDs, I think they're just as excited to see this flick.

Posted by Noah at August 13, 2007 5:28 PM

comment #10

Josh Massey says ...

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I usually see where you're coming from, even when I disagree - but I'll say it again. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Posted by Josh Massey at August 13, 2007 5:28 PM

comment #11

DarthCorleone says ...

Bollocks.

Posted by DarthCorleone at August 13, 2007 5:37 PM

comment #12

erikwithak says ...

Wrong on this one Jeff.

Posted by erikwithak at August 13, 2007 5:55 PM

comment #13

Nick J says ...

I tend to agree with Wells' opinions, particularly the ones he takes a lot of shit for (Peter Jackson's boring...it's not rational to mindlessly "support the troops"...fat people are unpleasant...etc.) but man, is he ever wrong about this.

Posted by Nick J at August 13, 2007 5:56 PM

comment #14

John Y says ...

Way off the mark, Jeff.

Without that theme you don't have an "Indiana Jones" movie.

Posted by John Y at August 13, 2007 5:58 PM

comment #15

T. Holly says ...

I'm not just being contrary with all you jackasses, and my hat is off to MilkMan for getting me to put the earpods in and take a listen, but I totally agree with Jeff -- it's a completely jaded trumpet reveille and should be tweaked ASAP. Any musician that takes a signature tune on the road knows this. It's as appealing to the "current" generation as going to the Hollywood Bowl for Movie Night celebrating the amazing 95-year legacy of Paramount Pictures with scenes projected on the big screen.

Posted by T. Holly at August 13, 2007 6:10 PM

comment #16

storymark says ...

This just goes to prove my general feeling about Jeff - his instincts in regards to genre films are just about as sharp as Carrot Top's instincts in regards to good comedy.

Posted by storymark at August 13, 2007 6:19 PM

comment #17

T. Holly says ...

Genre movies don't make hay.

Posted by T. Holly at August 13, 2007 6:21 PM

comment #18

christian says ...

" It's as appealing to the "current" generation as going to the Hollywood Bowl for Movie Night celebrating the amazing 95-year legacy of Paramount Pictures with scenes projected on the big screen."

when i saw john williams at the hollywood bowl two weeks ago, the "current" generation of 6-20 somethings helped pack the house with geek laser battles galore. yes, that star wars music is, like, old!

Posted by christian at August 13, 2007 6:21 PM

comment #19

storymark says ...

"Genre movies don't make hay."

What the hell you smokin'?

Posted by storymark at August 13, 2007 6:24 PM

comment #20

The Movie Man says ...

Jeff, we know Spielberg and fantasy is on your shit list and that's your perogative, but do you honestly think that Indy 4 is solely a middle age thing?

And another thing, he's gifted, but most people don't give a rat's ass whether Shia LeBeouf will be in or not, that has nothing to do with why people, of any age, will see this movie.

Posted by The Movie Man at August 13, 2007 6:26 PM

comment #21

T. Holly says ...

Yeah, but it's not trumpet reveille. What a missed opportunity to take it out of this world.

Posted by T. Holly at August 13, 2007 6:32 PM

comment #22

Matthew Lucas says ...

What do you suggest they use instead? John Williams' theme is one of the most iconic pieces of music of the 20th century, and to not use it for the return of the character after an 18 year absence from the screen would be a huge mistake, both artistically (ignoring part of what made the character famous), and marketing wise (familiarity).

Posted by Matthew Lucas at August 13, 2007 7:21 PM

comment #23

palmtree says ...

Almost every Steven Spielberg movie has been scored by John Williams (The Color Purple is the exception), and many of those movies have been huge hits, and some of them are still watched, studied, idolized, and enjoyed. So what exactly is it that suggests Indy 4 need a dumbed-down for-the-kids score? Have the recent two Harry Potters really benefitted from having younger composers? Where is this opinion coming from????

Posted by palmtree at August 13, 2007 8:32 PM

comment #24

Stephe96 says ...

This has to be a joke. The "Indiana Jones" films have made billions of dollars around the world and now some bozo with a website has "decided" that Spielberg and Lucas are making a "mistake" by retaining one of the most famous themes in film history for the next installment in their franchise? You've gotta be kidding. What about the Indiana Jones fedora and bullwhip? Did you notice they're dusting off THOSE old cliches for the 4th film?

Posted by Stephe96 at August 13, 2007 8:36 PM

comment #25

DarthCorleone says ...

"Trumpet reveille." Good lord. What a ridiculous dismissal. Try paying attention to the rest of theme. There are other instruments involved. And have y'all no respect for the rest of John Williams' work on the Indiana Jones films? Try listening to "The Map Room: Dawn," "Nocturnal Activities," or "Scherzo For Motorcycle And Orchestra" and telling me that all Williams has created for the Indiana Jones saga is "trumpet reveille."

Holly, the comparison of a musician taking a signature tune on the road is not analogous. We're talking about a movie - putting picture to sound. We're not talking about night after night of live performances or running a tune into the ground with incessant radio airplay. We're talking about a sample size of only four films that uses the same theme to introduce the same character. In terms of using music as a narrative and tying it into characterization ("Peter And The Wolf" would be the simplest illustration that they taught us all back in elementary school), if you throw out "The Raiders March," you throw out the character. This is not complex; this is Film Score 101 stuff.

Why does it not surprise me that neither Holly nor Wells contributed to this thread?
http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/archives/2007/08/movie_composer.php
Or, if you simply missed it, I'd be interested in what sort of film scores you do appreciate.

If you don't dig John Williams, and you don't dig the Indiana Jones that is inherent to his screen presence, fine. But the idea of throwing it out is just stupid.

Posted by DarthCorleone at August 13, 2007 8:42 PM

comment #26

DarthCorleone says ...

the rest of "the" theme

And don't dig the Indiana Jones "theme" that is inherent to his screen presence

Yeah, I'm a little too passionate about this and type too fast.

Posted by DarthCorleone at August 13, 2007 8:45 PM

comment #27

T. Holly says ...

Hey, it's 18 years later, but you're gonna get the same old thing. I think S.S. would be open to having it performed on vibraphone by some talented kid, if he heard the idea.

Posted by T. Holly at August 13, 2007 9:11 PM

comment #28

Larry says ...

Why have Harrison Ford in it either?--he's too identified with those old Indy movies. Let Shia be the lead, and if he asks for too much, get Justin Long.

And the new theme can be "Chocolate Rain."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA

Posted by Larry at August 13, 2007 9:20 PM

comment #29

insidah says ...

I have no issues with the return of the iconic theme. But I do have fears about S.S.'s expressed sentiment at Comicon. He said he was strictly making this film "for the fans." The last time he took his personal interest out of the equation like that with one of his films, the result was "The Lost World: Jurassic Park." We all know how much fun that was to sit through.

Posted by insidah at August 13, 2007 9:23 PM

comment #30

DarthCorleone says ...

Holly, thanks - I know what "Reveille" sounds like. And, no, aside from the fact that they both intend to rouse and both use a trumpet, I don't really hear the similarity. To me one is perfunctory and the other is genuinely stirring.

insidah>> I agree. I had the exact same reservations when I saw that footage. Although I'll defend John Williams' score to my dying breath, the new Indiana Jones movie still could be a serious misfire. Spielberg might have been doing "Lost World" for the fans, but at least I'll take solace in the fact that the point at which the film completely went off the rails - during that godawful climax - was as much of a result of Spielberg's stated self-indulgent desire to film a giant monster ransacking a city as it was anything else. So, maybe there is hope.

Posted by DarthCorleone at August 13, 2007 9:32 PM

comment #31

BurmaShave says ...

Wells, you do realize most of us take our shorts off before we spray, right? This could explain why you're leaning forward and rocking back and forth so much.

Posted by BurmaShave at August 13, 2007 9:42 PM

comment #32

DarthCorleone says ...

And just because I'm so OCD, "Reveille" is traditionally played on a bugle. Everything that can be played on a bugle also can be played on a trumpet, but the inverse is not true.

Posted by DarthCorleone at August 13, 2007 9:43 PM

comment #33

T. Holly says ...

Not to worry, the movie will make it's $300 mil, and thanks Darth, appreciate all your effort. We crashed the trumpet reveille, high five.

Posted by T. Holly at August 13, 2007 10:19 PM

comment #34

Wrecktum says ...

In my mind, Spielberg did not make The Lost World "for the fans." He made it "for the money."

Posted by Wrecktum at August 13, 2007 11:11 PM

comment #35

Dan Revill says ...

Regarding The Lost World, I remember the bearded one stating in Premiere something along the lines of "I'm doing this to get my feet wet again..."
It wasn't really for the fans or for anyone. It was just an excuse to have dinosaurs stomp around for a couple hours.

Anyhow, back to the point of the original Wells' misguided musing. Dead wrong. You need the Indy theme. It ain't Jonesing without it.

Posted by Dan Revill at August 13, 2007 11:54 PM

comment #36

Movie Watcher says ...

Jeff, after the movie comes out, and the box office is in the 100's of millions of dollars, put this post back on the site. The song is great, gets eveyone in the mood for the movie. Is Shia LeBeouf going to be the next Indy, or a sidekick? If not who is?

Posted by Movie Watcher at August 14, 2007 5:39 AM

comment #37

Rich S. says ...

You know what annoys me? That damn Also Sprach Zarathustra that they play at the beginning of 2001. The movie came out nearly 40 years ago and that damn song is still everywhere! Hell, the original music was written in 1896! Don't these people know that a theme cannot become iconic and only serves to tie your scene to the exact time and place in which it was written? When you're selling an SUV, do you want people thinking about tie dye and Nehru jackets? Or worse yet, waistcoats and penny farthing bicycles?

Nay! Break out the Taylor Hicks and right quick!

Posted by Rich S. at August 14, 2007 6:42 AM

comment #38

DavidF says ...

I hate to be Dude #25 telling Jeff he's nuts but...there you have it.

Say what you will about the Star Wars prequels. If you didn't get a bit of a chill, sitting in that packed theatre for the Phantom Menace when Williams' "memory lane theme park" music kicked in, you are dead inside.

Posted by DavidF at August 14, 2007 6:55 AM

comment #39

T. Holly says ...

I have a spare ticket to the Hollywood Bowl for Movie Night celebrating the amazing 95-year legacy of Paramount Pictures with scenes projected on the big screen on Sunday Sept. 2nd. If you can be a guide and not spray your shorts and have references who'll say you're not crimianally anything and you want to go and you won't flake out, then c me.

Posted by T. Holly at August 14, 2007 8:19 AM

comment #40

christian says ...

if only michael mann was directing. then we could hear the moby version of the indy theme.

Posted by christian at August 14, 2007 9:29 AM

comment #41

carla kolchak says ...

'Say what you will about the Star Wars prequels. If you didn't get a bit of a chill, sitting in that packed theatre for the Phantom Menace when Williams' "memory lane theme park" music kicked in, you are dead inside.
- Posted by: DavidF'

In fact, that was the highlight of that screening for me. It was all downhill from that point.

Posted by carla kolchak at August 14, 2007 9:51 AM

comment #42

Hallick says ...

"if only Michael Mann was directing. then we could hear the moby version of the indy theme."

Yeah - because that's just the kind of thing he did when he made "Last of the Mohicans".

Posted by Hallick at August 14, 2007 10:19 AM

comment #43

christian says ...

i forgot how seriously mann fans take themselves. my bad. so no moby theme for indy. it's in the 50's anyway, so hopefully there can be an american idol doing a cover of "mystery train."

so to recap: get rid of old fogey williams and his tired ol' horny leitmotiffs and bring on the branded pop soundtrack. it's money in the fedora.

Posted by christian at August 14, 2007 11:26 AM

comment #44

christian says ...

and god forbid the add youth of america be allowed to recount the filmic past in any way.

Posted by christian at August 14, 2007 11:32 AM

comment #45

christian says ...

"I have a spare ticket to the Hollywood Bowl for Movie Night celebrating the amazing 95-year legacy of Paramount Pictures with scenes projected on the big screen on Sunday Sept. 2nd"

i'm assuming SKIDOO will be part of that trib?

Posted by christian at August 14, 2007 11:34 AM

comment #46

Hallick says ...

"i forgot how seriously mann fans take themselves."

Myself? Not really worthy of the serious taking.

Nah, I've just been reading too many Michael Mann cheap shots since "Miami Vice" came out, so I got cranky about the Moby quip and thought somebody was just reducing him down to a caracature. Sorry about the over-reaction, christian.

Posted by Hallick at August 14, 2007 11:59 AM

comment #47

christian says ...

no apology needed. i shoulda rephrased it as "how seriously mann fans take mann" which sounds hella better. i was just tugging at jeff's soft spot.

Posted by christian at August 14, 2007 12:12 PM

comment #48

T. Holly says ...

christian, you're the world's leading authority on Skidoo, so who's the composer and what's so special about the score that it should be included in the concert at the Bowl. Was it really a Paramount production?, under which studio head? How did that happen?

And what possessed you to go to that john williams concert last month?

Posted by T. Holly at August 14, 2007 12:58 PM

comment #49

christian says ...

questions, questions...

answers:

- harry nilsson did the stellar score.

- bob evans was head of production at the time. he even mentions SKIDOO in his autobio.

- preminger had a 5 picture deal with paramount that yielded his most interesting, least successful films.

- i love john williams as a film composer. it was a treat to see him conduct - he even included my fave section of VERTIGO. just wished he woulda left out them bugles and put in kelly clarkson somewhere. y'know...for the children.

Posted by christian at August 14, 2007 1:20 PM

comment #50

DarthCorleone says ...

just wished he woulda left out them bugles and put in kelly clarkson somewhere. y'know...for the children.

Funny.

Posted by DarthCorleone at August 14, 2007 1:46 PM

comment #51

T. Holly says ...

I thought you were one of the kids doing geek laser battles. John Williams does a greatest hits parade every year, and I didn't jump, even with the pickings at the Bowl this year being abysmal, especially for a place I've seen in recent years: Brian Wilson's Smile, James Brown, Etta James, Pink Martini, Dead Can Dance, and an amazing dj scrath somewhere over the rainbow.

Posted by T. Holly at August 14, 2007 2:47 PM

comment #52

christian says ...

i thought i saw you at the SMILE concert on your cellphone telling your friends in silverlake how kcrw you were and asking why did they use so many horns on "surf's up"?

see that? a little turn o' the cultural table!

Posted by christian at August 14, 2007 3:50 PM

comment #53