Mangold Just Doing It

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As he began to make 3:10 to Yuma, director James Mangold "felt that the western had been hurt by a couple of things," he tells MTV.com's Josh Horowitz. "One is the over historical epic-ization of the western. The western was never about historical accuracy or teaching a history lesson, not the great ones anyway. They were about character.

"To my taste, one of the mistakes in westerns I'd seen was this ponderous sweeping Remington painting kind of Western with the big sweeping strings where suddenly I felt it was more about someone getting lost in the idea of making a western than actually making a story about characters living in the west." Like what? Open Range? The Grey Fox? Wyatt Earp? Unforgiven? Silverado?

"And then there was a post-modern thing where I felt like a lot of westerns had just become tributes to movies. I didn't arrive on set everyday with a frame blow-up of a Sergio Leone or John Ford movie.

"At a certain point I think it's incumbent upon you to just let go. Shoot it like George Stevens would shoot it. Shoot it the way John Ford would shoot it which is to say without some kind of compendium of DVDs in your trailer. Just do it. Be in the moment and make the movie. Look at the people and what they're doing and the sets your friends have built and make the movie. That to me was the critical mental adjustment I wanted to make."

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on August 21, 2007 at 3:28 PM

comment #1

Devin Faraci says ...

The thing I hate about having gotten into the junket game is that I just heard Mangold say all this same shit this morning, while dismissing my belief that 3:10 TO YUMA could have used a Gabby Hayes old coot.

Posted by Devin Faraci at August 21, 2007 3:42 PM

comment #2

ArchiveGuy says ...

Interesting that he objects to the "over historical epic-aztion of the western" and likes Ford, who was essentially the King of that kind of filmmaking.

Posted by ArchiveGuy at August 21, 2007 3:52 PM

comment #3

dre says ...

I hope he wasn't including movies like Unforgiven and Open Range and was referring to movies like Wyatt Earp. Also, I don't remember Silverado being all that ponderous.

Posted by dre at August 21, 2007 3:56 PM

comment #4

Mike Schaefer says ...

Anyone who goes to MTV.com to read about movies is not gonna have the foggiest idea what Mangold is talking about.

Posted by Mike Schaefer at August 21, 2007 3:59 PM

comment #5

buckzollo says ...

defensive much?

Posted by buckzollo at August 21, 2007 4:00 PM

comment #6

bmcintire says ...

One look at the color palette in that publicity photo lets you know it's producuction designers that are the roadbloack to the de-mystification of the Western. And clearly Mangold's film wasn't able to dodge that bullet.

Posted by bmcintire at August 21, 2007 4:04 PM

comment #7

source188 says ...

This is why The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford will the western remembered of this year.

Posted by source188 at August 21, 2007 4:17 PM

comment #8

bmcintire says ...

Though I will say, I prefer the dead blue color wheel to the traditional sepia-tones. It's more in line with guns and the Industrial Revolution than dirt and clay.

Posted by bmcintire at August 21, 2007 4:28 PM

comment #9

source188 says ...

Yeah but the western is dirt and clay and dusty, buckled,wood....at least in the south.

Posted by source188 at August 21, 2007 4:34 PM

comment #10

source188 says ...

the Industrial Revolution is more in-line with the north.

Posted by source188 at August 21, 2007 4:36 PM

comment #11

bmcintire says ...

The railroads and all they encapsulated were a driving force in killing what was the Old West.

The land, granted, is a million shades of brown and there is no escaping that. But the set and costumes of most post B&W Westerns fall into the trap of making EVERYTHING these same colors - as well as ridiculously old and weathered. Just how ancient is that porch they are stepping off supposed to be?

Posted by bmcintire at August 21, 2007 4:45 PM

comment #12

bmcintire says ...

I'm surprised that Jeff hasn't made a correlation to his didsdain for upscale design production (the copper-pot Architectural Digest porn) and the slavish faded/sepia desaturation of the Western. Or maybe he has and I missed it.

Posted by bmcintire at August 21, 2007 4:48 PM

comment #13

Monument says ...

I hate to be the technical dork, but this was before pressure treated lumber etc... Any bare piece of wood left out in the sun will weather and look old really fast.

Production designers, the good ones, do their homework.

Posted by Monument at August 21, 2007 4:50 PM

comment #14

bmcintire says ...

Maybe it's the filters, and maybe it's me being a bigger dork, but the faded, peeling whitewash on those posts looks more typically Atlantic/Cape Cod than Arizona/Sierra-Nevada.

Posted by bmcintire at August 21, 2007 5:13 PM

comment #15

chicagodad says ...

It looks like the naming of Open Range, Grey Fox, and Sivlerado falls outside the quote. I don't think Mangold was referencing them.

I think Jeff was pointing out examples of the kind of film Mangold was saying don't get made, quite correctly.

Posted by chicagodad at August 21, 2007 5:17 PM

comment #16

chicagodad says ...

I meant that Jeff was correct to point it out, not that Mangold was correct in asserting that they don't get made.

My apologies. First post.

Posted by chicagodad at August 21, 2007 5:18 PM

comment #17

BurmaShave says ...

Tom Mix wept.

Posted by BurmaShave at August 21, 2007 5:19 PM

comment #18

corey3rd says ...

and Wild Bunch.

Mangold is attacking films that are what - 50 years old? Did he have a chip on his shoulder after seeing Young Guns 2: Blaze of Glory Bugaloo?

You know what I didn't like about those Westerns - they weren't in 5.1 Dolby Digital.

Posted by corey3rd at August 21, 2007 5:22 PM

comment #19

chicagodad says ...

bmcintire, now I see that picture and can't help but imagine it's a still from a wacky screwball comedy about a band of outlaws that decide to rob a bank on Nantucket, with a title like Fifty Thousand Clams.

Thanks.

Posted by chicagodad at August 21, 2007 5:22 PM

comment #20

WJ says ...

They did have paint in the Old West, something which is ignored in many a Hollywood western. A lot of Hollywood sets are dominated by weathered clapboard buildings and the symbolic white church. See restored "ghost towns" like Virginia City, Montana or read stories like Stephen Crane's The Blue Hotel.

That said, I get what Mangold is saying about the modern western epic. Aside from films like Unforgiven, modern westerns seem about developing atmosphere and a sense of scale rather than telling a story. Films like Wyatt Earp, Geronimo, and Far and Away were gigantic, hollow epics. Earp, Geronimo, and the Oklahoma Land Grab are interesting stories, but those films were too self-conscious to do them justice.

Posted by WJ at August 21, 2007 5:27 PM

comment #21

hatchling says ...

They used very little paint in the hastily built, frontier towns that sprang up in the west. That came later.

There are plenty of photos taken of those towns in the 1870/80's. It took some prosperity and permanence before paint was felt to be needed, or even available.

I can't wait to see this film.

Posted by hatchling at August 21, 2007 5:49 PM

comment #22

foxnewsisfake says ...

I think they call those the "magic hour" Westerns. Filming only allowed at dawn and dusk.

What I'd like to see is a Western in the style of Deadwood: Cocksuckingly raw and dirty, filled with Richard the Thirds, Iagos, and Falstaffs.

Fuck that, how about a they just get going on a Deadwood movie?

Posted by foxnewsisfake at August 21, 2007 6:08 PM

comment #23

WJ says ...

If I remember the Elmore Leonard's short story correctly, it was set toward the end of the 19th century. Since the railroad ran through the town, some level of prosperity (incl. a two-story hotel) would be expected.

Of course, Mangold and/or his production designers may not have read it.

Posted by WJ at August 21, 2007 6:29 PM

comment #24

malibugigolo says ...

WJ: I just read Stephen Crane's The Blue Hotel last night. Now that would make a great movie. The theme of the media enforcing a stereotype that perpetuates behavior. And then coming back at the end with Crane's swipe at people who take such stereotypes at face value as being just as guilty.

Posted by malibugigolo at August 21, 2007 6:31 PM

comment #25

JeffGP says ...

Basically, Mangold is saying "ambition is no good." 3:10 to Yuma strives for nothing and achieves nothing. A movie as bland and uncomplicated as this one could use a little of that style this no-talent is preaching against. There is not one frame of this movie that is memorable. Remember when Luke Wilson shows up?! Remember the end with the inexplicable shifts in character and ...what? Is Bale supposed to be a pegleg? I'm glad that "in the moment" Mangold thought it wise to have a pegleg jumping from rooftop to rooftop.

Posted by JeffGP at August 21, 2007 6:58 PM

comment #26

BurmaShave says ...

Stop spoiling movies. Stop. Some of us on this board are not journalists. Stop. You are being a bunch of cocksuckers. Stop. It is fine to have a full bore discussion after the first weekend, I guess. Stop. This thread isn't really even about the movie, just Mangold's statement. Stop. Please stop spoiling movies. Stop. Thank you, cocksuckers.

Posted by BurmaShave at August 21, 2007 7:03 PM

comment #27

arch451 says ...

Mangold brings up a good point by implying that there is an intrinsic desire of filmakers to create westerns, regardless of the specific plot or characters. I've always wondered why this is so because I find the setting of westerns to be drab. I think the western has been favored by hollywood the past century because it is a setting of general lawlessness in which heroic actions can overcome adversary.

Posted by arch451 at August 21, 2007 7:13 PM

comment #28

JeffGP says ...

Mr. Shave, the only thing I imagine you could be referring to is the "pegleg," which, literally is the first shot of the movie. I understand the fear of "spoilage," but just because it ain't in the trailer, doesn't mean it would ruin anything.

Posted by JeffGP at August 21, 2007 7:20 PM

comment #29

malibugigolo says ...

I don't think Mangold is lacking ambition. He is simply avoiding context which makes a film more specific and less universal (less chance for box office gross). The Bourne movies are the same way. No politics just fighting and a spy that fights...for the memory love?...which really makes Bill O'Reilly take on the issue the most innane read on a movie that I've heard in a long time.

In any case better Mangold avoid context than changing it like he did with song Ring of Fire by Johnny Cash from a song this about pussy to one about love....how sweet...and false....you don't fall down and down again into love but you do into something else. At least that is my experience.

Posted by malibugigolo at August 21, 2007 7:26 PM

comment #30

BurmaShave says ...

In his defense, is there a better and more consistent director of average commercial films than Mangold right now?

Posted by BurmaShave at August 21, 2007 7:40 PM

comment #31

JeffGP says ...

Ed Zwick is probably equally as bad.

Posted by JeffGP at August 21, 2007 8:53 PM

comment #32

BurmaShave says ...

Having just read your review of ONCE, I will of course defer to you on all film matters from now on.

Posted by BurmaShave at August 21, 2007 9:11 PM

comment #33

buckzollo says ...

This post sure has been occupying some nice real estate at HE.

Posted by buckzollo at August 21, 2007 9:35 PM

comment #34

bagelfilm says ...

The last good real western I saw was STREETS OF FIRE.

Posted by bagelfilm at August 21, 2007 10:46 PM

comment #35

Devin Faraci says ...

This is why The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford will the western remembered of this year.

Posted by: source188 [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 21, 2007 04:17 PM"

You are not kidding. That movie prison rapes 3:10 TO YUMA.

Posted by Devin Faraci at August 21, 2007 10:59 PM

comment #36

Geoff says ...

^^^Jesus Christ I can't wait to see this Jesse James flick. It better soothe yet exhilerate my senses like Malick does.

PTA's film seems to be in this league too judging by that teaser.

Posted by Geoff at August 21, 2007 11:12 PM

comment #37

EDouglas says ...

If Jesse James is as boring and pretentious and completely disappointing as The New World, I'm bringing actual tomatoes to throw at the screen... that was already 2 1/2 hours of my life that I can never get back.

Posted by EDouglas at August 22, 2007 3:06 AM

comment #38