Venice reactions to "Redacted"

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GreenCine Daily's summation of Venice Film Festival reactions to Brian DePalma's Redacted -- three yays (from the Hollywood Reporter's Ray Bennett, the Telegraph's David Grittten and Alternet's Adam Howard) and one nay (from Variety's Derek Elley) -- obviously raises the want-to-see for Toronto Film Festival folk.

At issue is not just the film itself but the long-awaited redemption of DePalma, which many are very keen to see happen. I'm even including myself in this group, despite my having been cold on DePalma for many, many years. I had written him off, frankly. I started to write him off after The Fury. His last half-decent effort was Carlito's Way, and even that had problems. I don't want to go over the potholes again. What matters is that DePalma might be back in the game again...maybe.

comment #1

jeffmcm says ...

He didn't need redemption. His Mission Impossible is the best of the three, Snake Eyes is well-made and entertaining, and Femme Fatale is excellent. Mission to Mars and Black Dahlia, while very flawed, have enough great moments in them to make them worth watching.

comment #2

Wrecktum says ...

DePalma hasn't made a good film since Carrie. Without a doubt, he's the most overrated director of the past 30 years.

comment #3

Jeremy Smith says ...

Most of the best filmmakers working today would give anything to have De Palma's "potholes". Just ask them. Guys like PTA, Tarantino and Fincher worship De Palma (though I know Tarantino's not a fan of THE BLACK DAHLIA).

comment #4

jeffmcm says ...

He's made 11 good films since Carrie. If you started to give up on him after The Fury, you were never really with him in the first place.

comment #5

Jeremy Smith says ...

THE FURY, DRESSED TO KILL, BLOW OUT... that's when he got great.

comment #6

Geoff says ...

I'm one of those DePalma nuts who will watch anything he does and try to get something out of it.

Snake Eyes completely falls apart during the third act and it hurts.

Mission to Mars is horrible. I'll watch parts of it for a good laugh.

Raising Cain is a blast. It's hard to forget some of the stuff he does in that film once you've seen it.

And Roger Ebert is awesome for giving Femme Fatale a four star review.

comment #7

Josh Massey says ...

"When I read about the Mahmudiyah incident in Iraq 2006 - five U.S. soldiers raped a local girl, killed her and her family and later tried to disguise it as an insurgent attack - I knew I had a story."

So nobody else is bothered by that quote from DePalma (via Sky News)? He was just aching to film something to put the soldiers in a bad light, and along came this perfect little nugget. I don't see any other way to translate that. Would he have felt the same way if the Islamic fanatics had done the same thing, or maybe if he heard a story about soldiers doing something great?

And didn't he already make this movie with Sean Penn and Michael J. Fox, anyway?

comment #8

OddDuck says ...

Mission to Mars was the most ridiculously horrible film by a "real" filmmaker that I've ever seen in a movie theater.

On the other hand, Mission Impossible was pretty fucking great for a tentpole action bonanza - very elegant, stylish, debonair and just plain cool. And I still don't understand some people's complaint that it was too confusing. The plot wasn not that hard to follow at all.

comment #9

Mgmax says ...

"When I read about the Mahmudiyah incident in Iraq 2006 - five U.S. soldiers raped a local girl, killed her and her family and later tried to disguise it as an insurgent attack - I knew I had a story."

Yeah, the same one as Casualties of War, as Josh says. (Which in turn was based on an incident which Michael Verhoeven had filmed as O.K.-- and caused a big controversy with at the 1970 Berlin Film Festival, which DePalma was also at with Dionysus In '69. So he doesn't only rip off Hitchcock!)

I'm another one who's wondering when DePalma was ever in the game. The only movies of his I've ever found particularly good were the big studio projects, Untouchables and Mission Impossible. The list of the ten most overrated movies of the last 40 years would include Blow Out, Dressed to Kill, Carrie and Scarface.

comment #10

Undercover Brother says ...

DePalma is some kind of cinematic STD. The herpes of movie directors. Or maybe gonorrhea with a 35mm camera. Once you've got him, you can't shake him no matter how bad he gets. He'll burn and burn and you just have to sit there and endure the pain. But some of us wisely used protection and didn't come down with this dreaded affliction. Remember kids, unprotected intercourse with a DePalma movie can be a dangerous thing. Maybe once it was a zesty and fulfilling experience, but times have changed. Symptoms of DePalmaitis include delusions of grandeur, sporadic foaming of the mouth, raving like a lunatic at anyone who will stop and listen, a complete absense of logic or taste, finding yourself advocating reprehensible and/or stupid garbage like "Mission to Mars", "Black Dahlia", "Mission to Mars" and "Snake Eyes." There is no known cure for this terrible disease and it's only know to get worse as time goes by. Get tested, protect yourself and warn your friends.

comment #11

Undercover Brother says ...

Listed Mars twice because it sucked that much. Don't forget the stinkness that was "Bonfire", the silliness of "Cain" and "Fatale" and the outright monotony of "Impossible."

comment #12

Me says ...

It's not a good movie, by any stretch of the imagination, but I have to hand it to him for the end of Snake Eyes (spoilers) when he shows what other Hollywood thrillers don't, that this guy's life goes right back to being shit and there aren't really happy Hollywood endings. It felt really refreshing and at least left me feeling amused, if not really entertained.

comment #13

scooterzz says ...

at the junket screening for 'raising caine', universal handed out press notes detailing how 'thrilling' and 'hitchcockian' the film was...after hearing the reaction of the screening crowd, they (overnight) completely rewrote the notes to detail the 'tongue in cheek humor' and 'comedy aspects' of the film......new notes were handed out before interviews and all was well until john lithgow (running late) missed the briefing......his reaction to finding out that he was, all of a sudden, in a comedy was something i've never seen at a press event since......
also notable at that junket: reporter ryan murphy (later to write/produce 'nip/tuck') completely eviscerated depalma for trying to pass this piece of crap off as watchable.....good times....that stuff just doesn't happen anymore.......
oh....and before you flame the shit out of me......i know it's a rambling post but i'm just waiting for people to get here so we can put on a movie.....

comment #14

Nate West says ...

Nowhere does DePalma say he was "aching to put soldiers in a bad light." He wants to put a "bright light" on the aftermath of the war itself, images of which the U.S. routinely shields itself from.
-------

De Palma told Sky News Online: "I feel like one of the characters in my film that goes along with the rape in spite of his moral objection to it.

"In real life, I feel helpless to stop these horrible things that are happening, this horrible war that I am financing as an American citizen."

"It is un-American to criticise the government... Personally, I am not scared. I am the man they love to hate. I am sure they will say; 'It's another De Palma misogynist saga'.

"But this film is about Americans at war and what we do and we need to stomach it."

comment #15

Walter Sobchak says ...

........oh.....but he supports the troops........really.

comment #16

Dellamorte says ...

I'm sure De Palma views the war as a moral bad, and so an incident where the soldiers rape a 15 year old is the incident to highlight how far this thing has gone off the rails. If this country didn't react with more outrage to what happened at Abu Graib, then perhaps De Palma feels this sort of violation is the only thing that will hit home.

De Palma divides audiences, but I'm happy to be a fan, cause most of the people whose taste I trust and admire love him too.

comment #17

jeffmcm says ...

I'm wondering what Mgmax and Josh Massey feel is the 'correct' response to feel after reading about American soldiers raping and murdering Iraqi civilians. Something along the lines of 'boys will be boys'?
If I read about Islamic fanatics doing something similar, or American soldiers doing something great, my response would be 'that's what I expect' which makes neither event remarkable or newsworthy...or worthy of being made into a movie.

comment #18

jeffmcm says ...

Walter: your comment makes no sense. If I support the troops, I have to ignore the bad apples?

comment #19

actionman says ...

"He didn't need redemption. His Mission Impossible is the best of the three, Snake Eyes is well-made and entertaining, and Femme Fatale is excellent. Mission to Mars and Black Dahlia, while very flawed, have enough great moments in them to make them worth watching."

Jeffmcm...we finally can agree on something!

comment #20

christian says ...

iraq citizens if they happen (not) to be watching fox news can see pudghehead sean hannity continue to feign his outrage over any soldiers accused of anything indecent -- and that's more insulting to them than america acknowledging some of the pain that we've brought to iraq courtesy of a rudderless criminal administration.

comment #21

erniesouchak says ...

DePalma has acknowledged that a German film about the "Casualties of War" incident came first, and that he was at the Berlin festival when it was supposed to be screened; however, the film was deemed so controversial at the festival that the jury was disbanded and the fest was scotched. According to an interview he gave a few years ago, he searched high and low for the German film but had never seen it.

He has also been quite openly anti-war, so his interest in "Redacted" is not surprising.

This doesn't really matter. What matters to me is that De Palma, for all his many faults, understands how to use the camera better than 98% of the directors out there. I've hated a number of his movies, including "Bonfire," "Mission to Mars" and "Black Dahlia," but there's a lot to enjoy in so many things he has done.

comment #22

Hickenlooper says ...

disgusting.

comment #23

bagelfilm says ...

erniesouchak, you mean OK by Michael Verhoeven. The screening caused a scandal at the 1971 Berlin Film Festival and jury president George Stevens called for suspension of the competition.

comment #24

Fassler says ...

I was never really a huge fan of De Palma. The only one of his films I've seen from start to finish is Mission to Mars and nobody's gonna heap praise on that one (except for Armond White...he's...not...smart). I've always found Scarface so unbelievably boring. I've tried watching it three times and every time I do I can't believe how many expendable scenes there are. The scene where he sees his family, no matter how much it humanizes him, takes up valuable screen time for me. What could've been a good two hour movie is just too bloated for my taste.

comment #25

bagelfilm says ...

sorry, did not see that this information has already been posted earlier.

comment #26

jeffmcm says ...

Fassler: Mission to Mars is not the movie to judge him by. And Armond White is a very smart guy, he just also happens to be insane (or at the very least, the most contrarian critic on Earth).

Hickenlooper: No, you're disgusting.

comment #27

jeffmcm says ...

...which is to say, it's too easy to just toss off a one-word declarative. It would be nice if you were talking about the actions of anybody taking part in war crimes, instead of those publicizing them to ensure they are properly punished and never happen again.

But I think I know you better by now.

comment #28

Rod32303 says ...

For Carrie, Dressed to Kill, Blow Out, parts of Body Double, THE MOTHERFUCKING UNTOUCHABLES, Carlito's Way, and most of the first Mission Impossible...

...fuck the haters.

comment #29

Mgmax says ...

"According to an interview he gave a few years ago, he searched high and low for the German film but had never seen it."

Yeah, and Scorsese never saw Infernal Affairs, and Demme never saw Manhunter...

More to the point, could it be a more obvious case of shoehorning current events into the format and storyline of your lost youth? I don't want to see any Iraq movies by anyone who knows nothing about Iraq and only about Vietnam.

comment #30

Mgmax says ...

"I'm wondering what Mgmax and Josh Massey feel is the 'correct' response to feel after reading about American soldiers raping and murdering Iraqi civilians. "

That we need 15 movies about that and none about any other aspect of the conflict?

That Hollywood liberals are fundamentally incurious about the world as it really is and interested only in replaying a cliche from the era of their youth?

comment #31

Griff says ...

I don't know about "correct responses", but a fair one might be to think "Holy Moses, what an awful event, what an abberation," but then look at the worlds of good that are being done (hospitals, roads, schools for girls --- now there's a activity that should have all kinds of liberal support) and think "Maybe the aberrant acts don't represent the whole any more than Black on White crime represents African Americans as a people." And then make sure you don't go out making movies that suggest Black on White crime represents the whole of African Americans as a people.

comment #32

Griff says ...

If you're interested in a look at Hollywood's history of supporting anti-American propaganda, try this:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/27732.html

I'm not suggesting DePalma, Robbins, et al are in the pocket of those fine folks from AQ who want to kill us infidels, but pointing out there is a history in Hollywood of delusion (willful and otherwise) about America's actions v. certain other governments.

comment #33

Mark B says ...

QUOTE: "The list of the ten most overrated movies of the last 40 years would include Blow Out, Dressed to Kill, Carrie and Scarface."

BLOW OUT was never overrated. If anything, it was underrated. Travolta has never given a better performance before or since, even though Vincent Vega comes close.

comment #34

Hickenlooper says ...

One word: pathetic.

comment #35

christian says ...

"disgusting."

i'm assuming you're talking about our continued occupation in a country that did not attack us nor had the WMD's that were not there. or maybe you're talking about the confirmed lack of post-invasion plans. or the lack of electricity in baghdad that is slowly cooking the populace. or maybe you mean the 1600 civilian deaths in august alone. or maybe you mean the soldier ordered to kill a rooomful of women and children in haditha...and it's usually soldiers who first to report on atrocities who are then treated like pariahs by the protected upper brass.

but it's great to hear the war-lovers ignore the fact that hollywood has been used by the government and military for years when it suits their purpose. there's always 24 for you terrorist porn fans.

you're right george. this war is pathetic and disgusting as is the crew behind it.

comment #36

gatsby1040 says ...

Jeremy Smith:
Just curious - Where did Tarantino comment on Black Dahlia? What did he say?

comment #37

gatsby1040 says ...

Jeremy Smith:
Just curious - Where did Tarantino comment on Black Dahlia? What did he say?

comment #38

Larry says ...

No, Christian, here's what's disgusting.

De Palma: "The movie is an attempt to bring the reality of what is happening in Iraq to the American people."

The reality of the war is our soldiers are risking their lives to bring freedom to Iraq. Gang rape and murder by our military is extremely rare, while outrages from the other side are common.

"In real life I feel helpless to stop these horrible things that are happening."

No reason to feel helpless. We can stop the slaughter that will follow early withdrawal by voting against politicians who support it.

"It is un-American to criticize the government. Personally I am not scared."

I regularly criticize the government, too. What De Palma and others don't like is being criticized back.

As far as not being scared, that's because there's nothing to be scared about. Now if you tried to make a film that seriously tried to criticize our enemies and make then change their ways, you might have something to be frightened of.

"I am the man they love to hate."

Of course. Because when it comes down to it, it's all about De Palma.

By the way Jeff, The Fury is his best movie.

comment #39

christian says ...

"The reality of the war is our soldiers are risking their lives to bring freedom to Iraq. Gang rape and murder by our military is extremely rare, while outrages from the other side are common."

we didn't go to iraq to bring them freedom. we were lied to.
talk to pat tillman's family about this.

murder is not rare as over 400000 iraq citizens have been killed by our illegal invasion. none of your patriotic bromides are going to change those families minds over there. instead we've created new generations of terrorists that get to kill americans there so they don't have to come over here.

comment #40

jeffmcm says ...

Larry, DePalma is used to being criticized. He's been getting it for 30+ years now. And I really think the idea of 'a film that seriously tried to criticize our enemies and make them change their ways' is about the silliest thing I've heard of all day.

We all know Conservatives don't like to hear bad news about the war in Iraq, that's the constant thread in all of these posts, just like it was in Vietnam. But you know why there's a flood of bad-news-in-Iraq movies coming out? Because nothing has changed since last November or seems likely to change anytime in the next year and a half, and because certain generals are saying we might pull out in a decade or so. Given that in the popular mind, there won't be 'too many' Iraq movies until we're actually out.

comment #41

Hickenlooper says ...

It is pathetic and disgusting that anyone would equate the entire military occuption of Iraq to this one incident. Every war has its tragedies and missteps. The one soldier who committed these crimes is now serving 110 years in prison and he clearly deserves it. He was one bad seed in an Army that is fighting to bring peace and stability to the country. If you want criticize the war, then criticize the administration, criticize Bush. He is certainly an easy target. Just don't make a filim that will diliberately and cruelly fuel further hatred for individual troops who don't deserve it. Because of this film their lives have casually been put further in harm's way -- as DePalma has done so flippantly and quite selifishly to bring attention to himself and his career. He has now added an unconscionable amount of fuel and hatred towards these young women and men already on the ground in Iraq by painting them as "baby killers" (a la Vietnam). Brian De Palma doesn't have to avoid bullets or IEDs when he drives home to his mansion in Bel Air. If DePalma is suddenly in his career feeling "political," he should have made a film attacking George Bush rather than the troops. It is pathetic. It's sad and I quite honestly I believe it is evil.

comment #42

jeffmcm says ...

Sort of like taking one sad socialite's life and equating it with the entire sordid story of the 1960s?

I think it's offensive of you to make claims about 'fueling hatred for troops' when you haven't seen the movie, and when that is not an issue that is ongoing in our current climate. In Vietnam soldiers were called baby-killers and spat on. Not today, because everyone knows that Bush and co. are the ones to blame.

comment #43

Hickenlooper says ...

I don't see how may portayal of edie sedgwick neutralizes my views that the film's inherent subject matter (I don't need to see it) will inflame hatred towards individual American troops on the ground in Iraq. And why, jeffmcm, why do you always resort to personal attacks and name calling. It seems so beneath you.

comment #44

Mgmax says ...

"But you know why there's a flood of bad-news-in-Iraq movies coming out? Because nothing has changed since last November or seems likely to change anytime in the next year and a half"

When was your observation trip to Iraq, Jeffmcm?

Honestly, at least I never claim I know what's "really" going on there, I just claim that Hollywood directors don't know any more than I do, and maybe even a little less on occasion.

comment #45

jeffmcm says ...

It's two different points, George. You're attacking DePalma for doing the same thing you did in your movie (using a single story to stand in for a larger one).

The issue of 'not needing to see a movie to have an opinion about it' is completely separate.

And you're the one who launched into 'disgusting' which is a personal attack on DePalma to begin with. You will note that since that original post you have not been called any names by anybody.

comment #46

jeffmcm says ...

Mgmax, my point is that we're as entrenched in Iraq now as we ever have been before (more, really). I'm not talking about actual conditions on the ground for Iraqis.

comment #47

Hickenlooper says ...

You need to stop generalizing, Jffmcm. You seem like you're smarter than that. First, I never called DePalma disgusting. I said his choice was disgusting and his motivations were disgustingly obvious. I have a great deal of respect for DePalma as a filmmaker. I personally love "Sisters" and "Obsession." However, he clearly took on this subject matter to boost his own standing and he has done it at the expense of lives in Iraq. There is no question that al Qaeda will use this film to inflame hatred among its blood sucking jihadists. As far as "Factory Girl" is concerned, by making that film I didn't put any of those poor, surving drug addicts and victims and Mr. Warhol's scourge in harm's way. If anything I drew light to a very self involved era and gave Ms. Sedgwick's memory a new lease on life. And as far as your views about how the war is going, perhaps you should read the newspapers more often and start watching less television.

comment #48

jeffmcm says ...

That's funny, someone told me I watch too much television as a way to demean me on another thread, which is meaningless since I watch virtually no television at all except for David Letterman and documentaries. I never watch news on TV.

George, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think you're having a knee-jerk reaction based on a complete lack of information. I would like to think you're smarter than that as well.

What Al Qaeda does with any film is irrelevant; if we let them dictate what kinds of films we can and can't make, then they've won. "Drawing light" is exactly what DePalma is attempting to do as well to something that he feels people need to be exposed to.

comment #49

Mgmax says ...

"That's funny, someone told me I watch too much television as a way to demean me on another thread"

You apparently read that post as carefully as you watched The Lives of Others.

comment #50

jeffmcm says ...

Well, yes. Fully and accurately in both cases.

comment #51

Aunt Sassy says ...

DEFENDING DEPALMA; sounds like the sequel to SAVING SILVERMAN.

Brian DePalma is a master visual storyteller, but a pretty lousy writer. He's so good at the former, it tends to obscure the latter. Even BLOW OUT, which is probably the best work of his earlier period, has some unforgivable plot holes.

DePalma achieves his best results when he has a studio and a strong producer to reign in his excesses. The films made under these conditions (THE UNTOUCHABLES, MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE, CARLITO'S WAY) are stylish, but are also able to sustain their narratives. The difference is, of course, he is directing someone else's screenplay. Personally, I think he should have done more work for hire, instead of persuing his "vision", which seemed to consist of bad Hitchcock retreads and casting his then-wife as a whore.

P.S. Hickenlooper, don't you have a film to direct? Oh wait, you don't.

comment #52

jeffmcm says ...

I'd rather have more Blow Outs and Femme Fatales than Mission Impossibles and Mission to Mars-es.

comment #53

christian says ...

i wonder if the troops felt any heat after the president advised iraq insurgents or terrorists to "bring it on" to them.

that's pathetic and disgusting. like this war. and its deluded defenders. most of whom are now in the anti-american minority.

comment #54

Hickenlooper says ...

I've never seen such a school yard full of adolescents. It's amusing. And yes, I do have a film to direct Aunt Sassy. I'm sure you'll be first in line to see it. And when you have something to show to the world, other than your ignorance, please let me know. I'll give you seven dollars for it.

comment #55

jeffmcm says ...

Glad to have caused you amusement. If we cross paths again, this time drinks are on me.

comment #56

christian says ...

and if they do "hate us for our freedoms" -- a film like this can only make them aptly hate us more. so is that bad or good?

comment #57

Hickenlooper says ...

I feel the lot of you should just emigrate to Canada or Mexico. The sun is great in the latter and I hear the socialism is great in the former. They also have the lines to prove it. But then you are all probably used to lines at Starbucks. Anyway, I'm just having fun with you. I enjoy our little chats. Signing off from the playground. GH

comment #58

christian says ...

george, could it be we love america like you and have a different perspective on the blowback of a pre-emptive strike?

and you're funny. starbucks sucks. i suppprt indy cafes.

hopefully the coming war with iran will make us feel better.

drinks on me next time. back to the monkey bars.

comment #59

Aunt Sassy says ...

George,

I don't have to show anything to the world, other than my ignorance. That's why I'm on this site. In addition, I never claimed to be a director. I'm just a movie fan. You're the one who always seems to find a way to inject your personal politics into every post.

P.S. I'd love to see your next movie, but I'll probably be busy on the day it plays at the New Beverly.

comment #60

scooterzz says ...

hickenlooper-- you mentioned having another movie coming up....spill the beans...what's up?

comment #61

Hickenlooper says ...

Read the trades, my friend. The project is very, very cool. I certainly hope it plays beyond the New Beverly. The Film Forum would be nice too. I like the people in both theaters. The owner of New Beverly was a terrific guy. Anyway, I just consider myself blessed to be making the film. God speed, y'all. This Jesse James picture sounds like the shit. i am dying to see it. Signing off until there are other glib attacks on our young eighteen and nineteen year old men and women serving proudly in Iraq. We should be saying prayers for them every night and be counting our blessings for what we have. Anyone who feels any differently should be ashamed.

comment #62

christian says ...

george, jeez. you are out of line. i pray everynight for the troops and the people of iraq and sometimes even for bush.

the fact that we don't want to send these young people to false wars is to protect them. do you actually know anybody who served in vietnam? or in iraq? i did and do. and it wasn't bush cheney rove or ted nugent.

anyway. good luck with your project.

comment #63

Hickenlooper says ...

My uncle died in Vietnam in 1971 and I recently met witih a group of Marines down in San Diego who just returned from Iraq. They are two different wars and lumping them together is certainly the fashion though it has absolutely nothing to do with reality. One needs to read beyond "All The News That's Fit To Print."

comment #64

christian says ...

"They are two different wars and lumping them together is certainly the fashion though it has absolutely nothing to do with reality."

does the president know this? he invoked vietnam repeatedly in his speech last week. but bush does not know from reality, true.

and my dad was in nam. he voted republican and couldn't believe we were invading iraq. he remembered vietnam too well. me too.

comment #65

Hickenlooper says ...

From my perspective, the President was saying Americans should not view the war with the same cynicism as Vietnam. He wasn't comparing Iraq to Vietnam. We cynically lost the Vietnam War because it was the first war to be fought in the age of television. It was a war that showed us war isn't pretty. Americans who had been used to listening to wars on the radio (Korea, WW2) were tired of seeing boody images coming out of Hue. The media pounded Johnson and Nixon because of these images. Westmorland was frustrated that he wasn't being allowed to fight the war and win it. The polarity grew and grew until we had to ultimately abandon that conflict. When we finally left it created an enormous vacuum which resulted in Cambodian genocide and the installatioin of a bloody dictator. That same sceneario is what the President is suggesting we avoid. That was my view of his persepective.

comment #66

Howlingman says ...

That's a Philip K. Dick - inspired tale right there, George. What if television had been invented and perfected decades earlier? How would WW2 have played out on the nightly news? How would Pearl Harbor, the Bulge, everything played? Would the revelation of Hitler's death camps been treated as a conspiracy theory with obviously manufactured footage? Interesting to ponder at any rate...

comment #67

Hickenlooper says ...

i agree with you. Interesting to ponder. I would imagine that the National Socialists would have tightly controlled went on the airwaves as oppossed to the U.S. who freely let the media (Dan Rather, Morley Safer) roam about the jungles of Vietnam. I would imagine they would roam around as freely in Iraq and Afghanistan if they Islamisists didn't treat them as targets.

comment #68

Howlingman says ...

And subsequently the revelations of genocidal death camps on the Nazi side would be immediately dismissed by Germany as "obvious allied propaganda."

And dinnertime news stateside would be headlined with another message from Adolf Hitlet, "currently believed to be somewhere in the German Alps near Berchtesgaden."

Kinda does write itself doesn't it?

comment #69

Hickenlooper says ...

Better for history to write itself than to repeat itself. The world we live in right now is much closer to pre-World One and World War Two Europe than it is to French Indo-China.

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