comment #1

le corbeau says ...

No County for Old Men is a period film set in 1980, but it's saying four dark things about the world of 2007. They are (a) you can't see what's coming, (b) you can't stop what's coming, (c) the decent people of the world are starting to be outnumbered by the indecent ones, and (d) a kind of spiritual apocalypse is gathering and surrounding our culture.

Well, if all that's true, maybe it's a pro-Bush film about how American values and decency are at risk from a rising demographic tide of Islamic extremism. (What kind of name is Chigurh? Kosovar?)

Personally, I think the Coens are about as likely to make a political film as Brett Ratner is to remake Bresson's Diary of a Country Priest, and it's mainly about the sadness of aging and loss, a preoccupation of theirs going back to Raising Arizona.

And I think there's room for a nomination for either NCFOM or There Will Be Blood, but not both.

comment #2

Craptastic says ...

I'm in agreement about the ending. I was floored throughout the entire film. It has enough true suspense to make Hitchcock come back from the dead...

However for a film that was so exciting to watch and had me (and a large majority of the audience) reacting verbally to it...it just shits itself with that last scene. I GET what the ending means, what they're trying to say and all that jazz but it doesn't serve the film as a whole.

Frankly, I really didn't care for the Tommy Lee Jones character. He really didn't serve much of a purpose other than looking around at the aftermath of things and saying a witty line. So to end the film with his thoughts on a dream where, bascally, evil wins just left me feeling cold.

comment #3

PhilContrino says ...

To me it makes a lot of sense that they would keep Lumet in contention for Best director and exclude the film itself. This kind of thing happens a lot where a film isn't nominated for Best Picture but the director grabs a nod.

In recent years, see Mike Leigh, Fernando Meirelles, Spike Jonze and David Lynch.

Nominating Lumet this year and not his film would be along the same lines as when Altman was nominated back-to-back for The Player and Short Cuts.

comment #4

Pelham123 says ...

I don't think "No Country For Old Men" is overtly political, but I do think any great film is representative of the fears, hopes, and anxieties of its era and this is a great, great film.

comment #5

Scott Feinberg says ...

It is a terrible mistake to discount "Juno," which will be the true feel-good movie of the year, and probably turn out to be one of the film that knocks "No Country" out of the top 5.

comment #6

Craig Kennedy says ...

***Spoilery Type End of Movie Talk - Go Away***

You don't have to like the ending Craptastic, but I don't think you can say it didn't serve the film as a whole. Being denied the money shot doesn't satisfy from an action/suspense point of view, but it just shows there was so much more to the movie than visceral thrills. There is a spiritual ennui that isn't going to be defeated by a big gun battle where the good guys persevere. It's a sad and beautiful ending very much in common with the endings of most of their movies.

comment #7

Craptastic says ...

Well, Kennedy... that's your opinion.

I'm not saying I wanted a fucking money shot... just something other than a shot of Tommy Lee Jones talking for 5 minutes. Hell, they could've used it as a voiceover as we see Anton driving or hobbling away and I would've been fine. The shot,to me, just wasn't very interesting.

By saying it didn't serve the film as a whole... The TLJ character just didn't do it for me. Anything having to do with the characters outside of him were above and beyond the best stuff I've seen all year.

So when the film wraps up on a character I really didn't give a shit about, it didn't serve the film as a whole for me.

comment #8

MiraJeffAICN says ...

Really, Scott? Really? I mean, I admit, I've been badmouthing Juno for months based on its script, and then I saw the movie and it totally won me over. One of the best comedies of the year, for sure. I'd even throw Ellen Page a nomination. But Best Picture? For that? Come on! It's not capital-A Amazing or anything. People are talking about Diablo like she's the new Tarantino, which I think is absurd. There was far more honesty and humor in Knocked Up. Why is Juno considered a lock for Best Original Screenplay, and Apatow's isn't? Not to mention the fact that I thought Baumbach's script for Margot at the Wedding was better, and I thought Wes, Jason and Roman's script for Darjeeling was even better than that, and I fully expect Tamara Jenkins' The Savages to be better than all of those. Seeing it tonight. Cody's script was too cute and clever by half. It felt phony and poignant at the same time. Again, the movie really impressed me after its awkward first 10 minutes, but I just don't understand the Oscar love. Why does there have to be a feel-good comedy in the Top 5? Just because Little Miss Sunshine snuck in last year? LMS was better than Juno! The Diving Bell and the Butterfly is a feel-good film and a superior affirmation of the human spirit and our need to create and leave behind our story, our legacy, if you will. Juno wasn't nearly as profound. It was a smart-mouth teen dealing with serious issues prematurely, laced with wit and pathos, but it didn't reinvent the wheel or anything. If that gets a BP nod over films like Diving Bell and Elah, shit it seriously fucked within the Academy's ranks. Hats off to all involved with Juno but it doesn't deserve to be a BP nominee in such a deep year. For what it's worth, a Golden Globe win is still a definite possibility.

comment #9

chicbn872 says ...

There is a message in "No Country For Old Men" but I don't think it's of a particular political slant. The film is really two stories, the Lleweyn-Anton debacle and a social commentary by Tommy Lee Jones. I think the first story is used as a backdrop for everything Tommy Lee Jones says and does. He sees our society tumbling down into a big group of people willing to do whatever they have to in order to get what they want.

I think that Tommy Lee Jones' character spoke with reserved pessimism. He is a man that can't believe all the events that are happening in the world around him but he has not given up on people entirely. Why else would he offer to help Llewelyn in the way he does? If he had given up on people and society, he would gave given up on Lleweyn after he did the exact same thing that he is struggling with: a person willing to risk everything for what they want.

comment #10

bmcintire says ...

I can see a nod for Lumet but not for BEFORE THE DEVIL. There were some thrilling performances (PSH, Tomei, Finney) but a few really bad ones (Hawke, his Ex and his pal Eddie's girlfriend). The script had sharp dialog and a number of great scenes, but some unforgivably lazy plot contrivances (everything to do with that business card and the diamond fence). The only thing directorially I can slight outright were those god-awful time-shifting sequences. It was if he was trying to distract from complete lack of necessity in using a non-linear plot by calling a ridiculous amount of attention to it.

comment #11

rocco says ...

I'm always amazed when people insist the ending and climax exist as one.

comment #12

Craig Kennedy says ...

Well Craptastic, we can probably both agree No Country is fucked Oscarwise.

comment #13

historywatcher says ...

I found the ending completely in service of the story. The Coens have always marched to the beat of their own drum. The lack of a true climax in the film is a risky yet, I felt, rewarding move. Life goes on, bad guys sometimes get away, good guys sometimes fail to save the day. It's an ending most artists wouldn't have the balls to try.

comment #14

ROTC says ...

I agree with Craptastic about the film's jarringly ineffective ending. The particulars of what Jones had to say weren't especially interesting or compellingly written (including his conversation with Barry Corbin), and seemed merely transitional. The Coens could have ditched the dialogue and accomplished the same - perhaps more effectively - by simply having Jones stare woefully out into space in his civilian clothes. Further viewings of the ending may uncover greater nuances, but I doubt it.

comment #15

Craptastic says ...

I think it'll get nominated for adapated screenplay and cinematography. Possibly editing too... but I doubt the bastards will see how perfect the cutting was in that film.

comment #16

chicbn872 says ...

It has to, HAS TO, be nominated for cinematography. The initial 20 minutes with Llewelyn in the desert looked amazing. The lightning flash when he started running from the truck at night was my favorite shot of the movie.

comment #17

Jason says ...

SPOILERS AHOY

At first I wasn't very satisfied with the elliptical, ambiguous way in which Llewelyn Moss met his demise, but in retrospect it's much more haunting than if the movie had continued its ruthless course to an ending in which one of the two men die in yet another tense face-off.

Chigurh pretty much writes an epitaph for the thriller pursuit portion of the movie when he tells Moss, over the phone, there is only one way things will end. Chigurh is right, and the movie underlines this by exiting Moss with shocking suddenness. His death hits you like a phone call in the middle of the night. It may not be conventionally satisfying, but it shifts the movie into a more thoughtful and elegiac gear with admirable restraint.

comment #18

p.Vice says ...

This doesn't surprise me for a second. Since when are the Academy in the business of recognizing quality? They honor A)money, B)feel-good sentiment, and C)money. Which is why Ron Howard and Peter Jackson have Oscars while David Lynch and Robert Altman don't, and why Marty won for his first film in years that was considered a commercial success.

comment #19

chicbn872 says ...

I actually think it would have been more emotionally unsatisfying to see Anton kill Llewelyn. I am glad we didn't see that because it would have been really painful to see. The movie would have hit a brick wall if you actually saw Llewelyn die. It would almost be like it should be over right then and there.

I don't know why people are complaining about that. They didn't show Anton kill Carla Jean which was also a fairly big moment in the movie.

comment #20

Zimmergirl says ...

this whole thing is so ridiculous. Talking to three or four Academy members MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. And just because Hammond and O'Neil are finally getting a clue doesn't mean this is, in any way, news. Fellas, give me a break. You won't even know how hot the fires burn until the awards race gets underway, which it will in early December when the NBoR hands out their prize. No Country stands up as THE top contender right now and there are only a few other films out there that can beat it. Two have yet to be released. The film is a career high point for two American treasures, whether a handful of folks don't get it or not.

I am growing impatient with this broken record.

comment #21

Kristopher Tapley says ...

Your passion is overwhelming your judgement, Jeffrey. This is apparent in the very notion that you thought Before the Devil Knows You're Dead was EVER in the running for Best Picture. How could it have been?

Nice to follow-up, though. I personally don't think Hammond "shot down" anything. The critically acclaimed Best Picture contender miss is not a myth. Aside from Mulholland Drive and United 93, there's Far From Heaven, Topsy-Turvy, Leaving Las Vegas...happens...every...year.

That you think the Academy found something artistically applicable about the violence in The Departed is left-field stuff. That win will always have everything to do with Marty, Marty, Marty.

This debate will go on all year long, and it will heat up more and more once No Country wins the majority of critics' awards.

comment #22

jeffmcm says ...

The word is 'eke'. Not 'eek'.

comment #23

Zimmergirl says ...

Kris, you're wrong about the Departed - as you well know you underestimated its chances from day one and never, in fact, came to the table on it as you were still predicting letters from iwo jima to win up until the very night of the Oscars. also, no country is in no way, shape or form Topsy Turvy or Far From Heaven or United 93. That is the most ludicrous thing I have ever read. Apples and oranges. No Country is more along the lines of The Departed, the Lord of the Rings series, LA Confidential - movies that capture the hearts of critics as well as the Academy. In order to see how much it has going for it you need only look at what's around it, which was the key to figuring out why The Departed was going to win -- and no matter how many times I said that no one ever listened to me.

If you're paying attention at all or know the Oscar race even a little bit you know that the directors, the writers and the actors are going to go for this film and that means so will the Academy. They are not, contrary to popular belief, stupid. the Coens are right in their neighborhood in every possible way and that they made this exciting leap forward in their already stellar career is not something that is going to go unnoticed. They would have to be complete and total fools not to nominate the film of the year.

comment #24

gruver1 says ...

Wells to jeffmcm: Yeah, I know...I thought about that after I wrote it. I have to tell you and the other formalists out there that I don't like the word "eke." I don't think it makes it. "Eek" is much better because the sound of it suggests the anguished state of mind of trying hard to make something happen and just barely accomplishing it. Plus it's rooted in the spellings of "geek" and "seek."

comment #25

ROTC says ...

To Wells: Actually, going by your logic, it should be "eak," i.e., rooted in the spelling of "squeak."

comment #26

ROTC says ...

Interestingly, one thing that may have greatly influenced my negative reaction to the NCFOM ending was that I had just watched the DVD of Tarantino's Death Proof a few days earlier. Midway through Death Proof, Michael Parks (as a sheriff) has a great scenery-chewing monologue about why he will not be going after Kurt Russell's character. In a lot of ways it effusively drives the same points home much more effectively than NCFOM's dour fade-out.

comment #27

raj says ...

I'm surprised by the disappointment that's been voiced about the ending of NCFOM, though I guess it's is in keeping with what the Jones character is mourning. For me, he's the one with the most depth in the film--the one whose inner life matters to me. The other characters are in a genre picture, and though they're wonderfully realized, they're not particularly human. The great loss of the film is really Jones'--recognizing that he has no role in the genre of story being played out by the rest of the characters. So his final words, and Barry Corbin's, which I think are beautiful, too, reflect on the passing of a way of understanding the world as well as on the obsolescence of honor, reflection and thoughtfulness in this new genre of story. Not having read the book, I didn't see this whole last chapter with that character coming. It gave me a way to put the plot-driven part of the story into context and to give it meaning, and it pushed the film into a much higher level of my esteem.

comment #28

le corbeau says ...

I'm not saying I wanted a fucking money shot... just something other than a shot of Tommy Lee Jones talking for 5 minutes.

Coen Brothers movies that have ended with a whole lot of talking instead of something happening:

Raising Arizona
The Hudsucker Proxy
Fargo
The Big Lebowski
The Man Who Wasn't There
No Country For Old Men

Movies where this worked:
Raising Arizona
Fargo

comment #29

Zimmergirl says ...

That you didn't include Lebowski on your list of films that work cancels out your entire argument. Next.

comment #30

jeffmcm says ...

Jeffmcm to Wells: You can use whatever word-choice you want, you just have to know that it makes you look sloppy.

comment #31

hatchetface says ...

Is there anyone who thought the ending worked well in the book, but that was disappointed with how it worked in the film?
I hate to be so on-the-nose with the title, but I can see how the ending of NCFOM won't appeal to 20-somethings, or 'youth' in general. The book denies you these important scenes in the narrative for reasons that most younger movie-goers simply won't care about. Cinematic or not, I loved the ending of the novel. If you don't feel connected to the sheriff by that point, and truly interested in his conflicted feelings, then too bad for you.

comment #32

T. S. Idiot says ...

I saw NCFOM today in Manhattan, and there were plenty of rumblings in the audience about the ending. It works for me. Everything about the film works at a high level--though Anton's 'do is distracting.

comment #33

le corbeau says ...

"That you didn't include Lebowski on your list of films that work cancels out your entire argument. Next."

Why a Christ parable ends with an old coot telling tales of the West is beyond me, it's marginally entertaining (at least I can remember how it ends, which is more than I can say for O Brother or Intolerable Cruelty), but still, in the same windy, what-are-they-going-on-about-vein as Hudsucker, Man Who Wasn't There, etc.

comment #34

Craig Kennedy says ...

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh. I sure hope he makes the finals."

Close out with a superb cover of Dead Flowers by Townes Van Zandt.

Classic. Beautiful. Funny. Sad. End of story.

comment #35

le corbeau says ...

Yeah, what the fuck is that all about?

comment #36

Craig Kennedy says ...

It means in an uptight, messed up, dishonest world, there is The Dude. You can pee on his rug, threaten to cut off his johnson, steal his Creedence tapes, hit him in the forehead with a coffee cup and you can even make him listen to the Eagles, but he's The Dude and he'll come through to the other side, bowling ball in one hand and white Russian in the other, unharmed and ready to roll. The Dude abides.

I don't know how else to put it.

comment #37

Kristopher Tapley says ...

"movies that capture the hearts of critics as well as the Academy"

No basis for this comment, considering Academy members are having trouble with the ending.

comment #38

frankbooth says ...

How do you say "yes" to a director but "no" to his or her film?

When a director like Lynch gets a nomination -- but his film doesn't -- the academy is basically saying: "We don't approve of your movie or what it stands for, but we're forced to acknowledge that you directed the hell out of it."