comment #1

BNick says ...

Interesting comments, Jeff. I totally agree with you about Will Smith. He's dead on about Hitler, and it's stupid to criticize him for saying what's patently obvious to everyone.

But I wonder, do you think Daniel Plainview thought he was a "good" person doing the "right" thing? One or two of his monologues, you almost get the idea that he knows he's bad and revels in it. Same with Hannibal Lector.

Of course, the fact that I have to resort to using fictional characters to disprove your point probably means you're right.

comment #2

le corbeau says ...

Except that's not really true, Jeff. One of the traits that binds the functionaries of an evil society together (cue to D.Z. to start warming up) is a sense of having done evil together, of shared guilt which, by virtue of being shared, is excused. Nevertheless, a kind of satanic pride in what one has been willing to do in the service of the ultimate good of the state is an essential test of one's worth. The clearest statement of this, perhaps, comes in Himmler's famous "secret speech" at Posen in 1943:

It is one of those things that is easily said. "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, ha!, a small matter."

And then along they all come, all the 80 million upright Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. They say: all the others are swine, but here is a first-class Jew.

And none of them has seen it, has endured it. Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when there are 500, or when there are 1000. And to have seen this through, and -- with the exception of human weaknesses -- to have remained decent, has made us hard and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned.

If it was good, why would it be "never to be mentioned"?

comment #3

erniesouchak says ...

This raises an interesting question about all the Nazi suicides, including Hitler's, that followed the fall of Germany. Did they kill themselves because they didn't want to live in a world that wasn't Hitler's, or because they knew they'd partaken in something abominable and would be punished? If it's the latter, that might suggest there was some awareness they weren't climbing out of bed and doing good every day.

comment #4

Chicago48 says ...

Will is learning a hard lesson in entertainment: Only give interviews on tape and video. The writer interpreted his quote correctly, it was the gossip mongers who misinterpreted and blew it all out of proportion.

As to Hitler: We're all born (IMO) inherently innocent and it's our environment and growing up experiences that shape whether we turn out good or bad people.

Nothing wrong with that -- but some nut-case writer or gossip monger would take that statement and make it seem like it is supporting Hitler's (or any dictator's) motives.

comment #5

JHRussell says ...

Who gives a shit what any entertainer, etc., has to say about anything except maybe their next film...nothing wrong with what he said, but who even asks questions like that of actors?

comment #6

le corbeau says ...

Ernie, find a copy of Explaining Hitler by Ron Rosenbaum. It's basically a tour of the competing theories for "explaining" Hitler and Nazi evil, a task Rosenbaum is openly skeptical about but a good investigator of; anyway he, and many of the people he talks to, wrestle with that very question among others.

comment #7

BurmaShave says ...

Here's a good rule: When giving an entertainment interview, don't talk about Adolf Hitler.

comment #8

Yuval says ...

Mgmax, you're misinterpreting Himmler's quote. As far as he's concerned the "80 million upright Germans" with their 1 jew and their human weaknesses are the problem since they can't understand the "Good" of eliminating the jews. Therefore the hard and glorious Nazi soldiers will defend them from their own weaknesses.
He doesn't think he's satanic, he thinks the other Germans who have a problem with murdering millions of people are weak. This is a perfect example of what Jeff is talking about.

comment #9

RoyBatty says ...

Smith was doing what most of us do when trying to talk about "evil" in concrete terms: simply using Hitler as the personification of actual "evil" that we can point to. It's shorthand and so common I probably don't need to mention it. It's how actors approach roles, finding their way in.

Can't help but wonder if the conservative websites and news outlets are the ones pushing this, needing to take Smith down a peg or two in case he decides to start stumping for Obama.

comment #10

PerfectTommy says ...

The conservative websites I frequent (National Review Online, Newsbusters, even Dirty Harry's) have barely mentioned this story.

comment #11

Jay T. says ...

It's like that line in The Talented Mr. Ripley... "Everyone thinks they're a good person." ... or something like that.

About Hitler specifically, perhaps the most misunderstood thing about the man was the whole anti-semetism angle. He merely tapped into Germany's already rampant anti-semetism and used it as a political campaign tool. Not that this is okay, but nowadays too many people act as if it was his inherent hatred towards Jews that suddenly spread across the country. Okay, I'm rambling a bit, but this revisionist history (that's easier to swallow) often bothers me.

comment #12

Craig Kennedy says ...

Interview Handbook 101: Don't invoke Hitler in reference to anything. Nothing good can come of it.

comment #13

le corbeau says ...

So Yuval, why is it a chapter of history that can never be told?

Why did Hitler make sure that he never directly ordered the Holocaust?

He merely tapped into Germany's already rampant anti-semetism and used it as a political campaign tool.

I think that's a little simplistic-- he was clearly a true believer in his own message-- but I agree that it's important to remember that it didn't spring from nowhere and was widespread throughout European society. As some historian said, "If in 1910 a visitor had arrived from the future and said six million Jews had been murdered by one of the European powers, you would have said, Well, not surprising, there's no depths of Jew-hatred to which the French would not sink."

comment #14

christian says ...

"As some historian said" making a rather monstrous claim. Perhaps Podhoretz or Jackie Mason? But I get your point.

What Smith said was astute and to critique him is ridiculous since it's been the subject of much art. Do evil people think they're evil? At the time, Japan was no different in their belief they were a master race. Hirohito was deluded along with millions (except he was spared war criminal status by MacArthur).

And the reason Hitler and crew suicided is because they were bullies and cowards from the start; they knew they were fucked.

comment #15

corey3rd says ...

remember that everything you say can and will be used against you. This is twice as true when it comes to international press.

comment #16

ZayTonday says ...

Aww HELL NAW! Will Smith is a Hitler SYMPATHIZER!

The Fresh Prince is a NAZI!

comment #17

Dex says ...

This is another sad example of how those cats at the JDL and/or the Weisenthal Center are great with the "gotchas." Seriously, someone please advise. Why do they seemingly get a pass for their overreaction tactics versus those of other ethnic/religious groups? I don't see the difference. Also, does any money change hands? Specifically, now or somewhere down the line, does the JDL extract a "donation" as a supplement to a star's apology and in exchange for calling off their PC watchdogs? I guess I'm choosing to be cynical. While I don't pity the rich celebs, it's sad to think of the size of check Will Smith might have to fork over to JDL (or any associated causes) to smooth over for remarks that I feel were clearly observational, non-malicious, and tweaked by an overanxious journo. I imagine one day, a real journalist (if there are any left) will report how much it costs to keep those groups from, ironically, defaming "offenders" like Big Willie in exchange for cash.

comment #18

Yuval says ...

Mgmax, Hitler and the Nazi party believed that killing all jewish people was the good righteous thing ("a small matter" in your quote) as much as they believed that a unified Europe under German power was good. They said it out load, taught it in their shcools and wrote books about it. But they knew the rest of the world and most weak Germans are "slow" in picking up this message, so they would kill the jews for them, and spare them the heartache. Hitler believed (as he wrote in Mein Kampf) Germany should manipulate other world countries to achieve their goals, and that's what he did when he became world leader. He understood that proclaiming - "I intend to kill all jews" might provoke other world countries into action (and then perhaps the US would enter the war before 42, and start a Western European front before 44). The same way he knew that telling Chamberlain he intends to go to war might damage his plans, and therefore preferred to say he comes in peace. It's not because he was ashamed of himself of wanting war.

Dex, you're not choosing to be cynical, you're a true racist. Will Smith didn't donate anything, I don't believe he wil, nor that he should. You believe the jewish organizations are manipulative demons who only want money. Those organizations were created out of the belief that racism (and specifically anti-semitism) didn't die in World War 2, and you're one proof of that. I'm sure the next time you look in the mirror you'll say to yourself you're basically good. I would advise a closer look.

comment #19

Spicer says ...

The best movie villains think this way. In their minds they aren't the bad guy. They are doing the right thing.

comment #20

Dex says ...

Yuval, lots of wealthy people (celebs or not) try to buy their way out of hairy situations. Sometimes they are not-so-subtly "encouraged" to do so. Individuals, governments and organizations of all kinds are corruptible--not just Jewish ones. That's a simple reality, and at times, I tend to be cynical, skeptical, and suspicious. Occasionally, those suspicions are misplaced, but I don't think they makes me racist. Obviously, you do, so fine.

comment #21

BurmaShave says ...

Yuval, you're way out of line. Typical of the type of, yes, fascist thinking that you cannot attack a Jewish group or a Jewish person without being an anti-semite.

Dex is fully entitled to his skepticism about the intentions of Foxman, who has proven to be a tireless oppurtunist, never failing to glom onto the misstatements of movie stars but who has done very little to address or remedy the situation of Jews in real peril and under threat around the world.

Oh also as I'm sure you know, Jews are not a race. They've been characterized as such for centuries by those who wish to seperate them for special disdain, but they are in fact several ethnic groups united by a common religion. Interesting you would use outdated terminology favored by anti-semites in your warped attempt to fight it.

comment #22

thasos says ...

It's just too bad Will Smith didn't have the sand to NOT make that lame apology ("Adolf Hitler was an EVIL MAN"). He should have stuck to his guns and told Abraham Foxman to go screw Elie Wiesel. Or, as someone suggested, just leave Hitler out of promotional interviews.

comment #23

le corbeau says ...

I hear Adolf Hitler is single now and looking for dates on EvilDictatorCelebrities.com!

comment #24

Chicago48 says ...

Off topic: Why is scientology dogged as a religion? I don't see reporters & gossip mongers dogging Buddhism (Tina Turner, Richard Gere). And why should we know what religion these people are?

comment #25

Sean says ...

Scientology is dogged because there are very detailed records and anecdotes which clearly show that Hubbard was a fraud and a liar, and because he's not even an imaginative writer.

Which is to say, the more recent a religion is, the more likely it is to be dogged. Some people will say this is because the crazy belief hasn't had time to sink in and become a baseline crazy [baseline crazy = invisible man in the sky with a plan; extra-crazy = depression is caused by unclean souls of dead aliens... but is one *really* less credible than the other?]. It seems more likely that it's because we have actual records about the founders of more recent religions.

I mean, Joseph Smith was a nut and a fraud. We know this. We know all sorts of crazy stories about how he wrote the Book of Mormon.

On the other hand, we know little of Moses. I like to think he was a talented stonemason who was upset his kids didn't visit him for the (pagan) holidays.

Also, the longer lasting religions have had more reasonable and intelligent people come along and interpret them, boosting their credibility. (I'm thinking of folks like Calvin, or even Hobbes [though I bet people who know more than me know of assorted flaws in *their* character as well].)

comment #26

BurmaShave says ...

The merits Calvin and Hobbes are debatable, but Garfield really set me straight.

comment #27

Yuval says ...

"how those cats at the JDL and/or the Weisenthal Center are great with the "gotchas."
Why do they seemingly get a pass for their overreaction tactics versus those of other ethnic/religious groups? Also, does any money change hands? in exchange for calling off their PC watchdogs?
a real journalist (if there are any left) will report how much it costs to keep those groups from, ironically, defaming "offenders" like Big Willie in exchange for cash."
Am I overreacting? Or does that sound like a satanic description of the JDL and the Weisenthal Center? (and not just a general description of governments and organizations)
Burma, as I'm sure you know... while jews are not a race, being anti-semitic means you think otherwise. Therefore, if someone is anti-semitic, then he's racist. Interesting you would make such moronic observations in your idiotic, while illogical, attack on me. Here, for example, I'm using your favored rhetoric to show you how you're a moron. As I'm sure you know. Interesting indeed.

comment #28

BurmaShave says ...

You have absolutely nothing to offer to any adult discussion.

comment #29

kittyn says ...

The response to Will Smith was totally an overreaction. The reaction to his comments are so dumb it's embarrassing. How stupid can people be? Is our education system THAT bad? It's so clear what he was meaning to say, there's no ambiguity about it.

Referencing "Hitler" as the embodiment of evil when making a point about evil is done ALL THE TIME. Pointing out the obvious is really so tiresome. Move on people, nothing to see or talk about here.