comment #1

JD says ...

This is a good point and another reason that Jarhead works far better than any of the other recent Iraq films. The other problem is that most of these films are telling us what we already know... and not in a very dramatically stimulating way. The best war movies challenge our beliefs or offer us a rich, meaningful, humane sense of the war experience. Since most people agree that everyone involved in this war is either lost, confused or misguided, it's hard to dramatize their experiences in a very sympathetic or humane way. Thus, a film like Redacted, which has some cinematic merit, but completely drops the ball in terms of characterization. De Palma has too much contempt for his characters -- and rightly so -- to make a dramatically satisfying film.

comment #2

Gordie Lachance says ...

The best war films, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, Deer Hunter, Bridge Over The River Kwai and many others are not "about" war, which is what filmmakers can't seem to get. The internet generation in particular can't get beyond voicing their silly and meaningless opinions (damned message boards) to see the big picture.

comment #3

MAGGA says ...

Jeffrey, do you usually read the comments on your site? Because people have been making this point for a long time.

comment #4

Josh Massey says ...

How many of those films would you have actually paid for, Jeff?

comment #5

gruver1 says ...

Wells to MAGGA: Not as concisely as Howling Man's comment. It's not what you say as much as HOW you say it.

comment #6

Mumbleboy says ...

I thought I read somewhere on this site that the prevalence of non-endings this year (i.e. Zodiac, The Sopranos, No Country) was directly related to our unending engagement in Iraq. Not that those films really pulled in the major bucks, but it is more reflective of our general concerns and almost an attempt to have us learn to deal with ending that never have their loose ends tied up.

comment #7

K. Bowen says ...

The best war film I saw last year was 28 Weeks Later.

Haggis' script for Casino Royale is better than In the Valley of Elah because with Bond, Haggis doesn't get to paint (and overpaint) his own moral universe. He has to deal with someone else's.

comment #8

Gaydos says ...

"In the Valley of Elah" may be the worst title in the history of the movies.

comment #9

HollywoodHillsCookie says ...

That Amy Ryan will appear in Paul Greengrass' Iraq war film should make for some interesting Wells' posts in the future. 2 topics in 1.

comment #10

jeffmcm says ...

In the Valley of Elah was also a pretty insulting, condescending film that deserved the fate it got at the box office (Tommy Lee Jones' performance notwithstanding).

comment #11

Chicago48 says ...

It was the title. The title said absolutely nothing and sometimes titles have to say something.

comment #12

Chance says ...

I didn't care about the subject matter or the title -- I skipped ELAH because Paul Haggis is a hack.

comment #13

Dirty Harry says ...

How about "allegory works better than films which outright suck?" That work for you?

The best anti-American values film this year was TWBB. It trashed oil, capitalism, and Christinity -- all things I strongly believe are good and vital -- but didn't mind a bit because the film is not about those things, it's about Plainview. I don't think as many of you do that it's a great film, but it's very good.

Apocalypse Now is my favorite war film because it's not about Vietnam, our military, our foreign policy, etc... For me Apocalypse is about Martin Sheen being sent to Hell for his sins and once he arrives having to butcher himself in the form of Kurtz.

I've always believed Willard dies in that hotel and afterward it's all the circles of hell.

But that's what great films do, they transcend agenda. They don't hang the flag upside down.

FUCK, that movie was a piece of shit.

comment #14

Mgmax says ...

Gee, I think I only said that in comments on this site about 28 times. For instance:

Since libs of Redford's generation are always insisting that this is Vietnam all over again, here's a little Vietnam analogy that may help prevent movies like Lions For Lambs in the future:

Movies indirectly about Vietnam and the 60s: The Wild Bunch. The Sand Pebbles. A Clockwork Orange. M*A*S*H.

Movies directly about Vietnam and the 60s: WUSA. The Strawberry Statement. Zabriskie Point. Move.

Posted by: Mgmax at September 9, 2007 09:41 PM

comment #15

Mgmax says ...

Wells to MAGGA: Not as concisely as Howling Man's comment. It's not what you say as much as HOW you say it.

Guess I was too... allegorical

comment #16

Dirty Harry says ...

"allegory works much better than brutal fact."

Wait. Wells is just now figuring that out?

comment #17

Mgmax says ...

The best anti-American values film this year was TWBB. It trashed oil, capitalism, and Christinity -- all things I strongly believe are good and vital -- but didn't mind a bit because the film is not about those things, it's about Plainview. I don't think as many of you do that it's a great film, but it's very good.

Wow, I think you completely misunderstood the movie. I admired it for being the first movie in a long time to celebrate the creative powers of capitalism and the entrepreneur. We first see Plainview struggling to make his fortune. Rather than blow his earnings, he reinvests them and soon becomes a respected businessman known for delivering on his promises. He strikes advantageous deals which enrich the ordinary folks, allowing them to build amenities such as a church, and vigorously resists selling out to bigger companies who might dilute his vision or mistreat his workers. He suffers personal setbacks-- fortunately his wealth allows him to give his son the best medical care of the day-- and he has to fight ruthlessly against various figures who would defraud him, but ultimately he achieves his dreams and builds an oil empire, thus helping make California the vibrant and prosperous place it is today. In the climactic showdown, a cynical, corrupt figure from his past tries to beg money from him and he makes a striking and inspiring defense of self-reliance against superstition. Plainview becomes a powerful figure of the American dream and a true hero!

comment #18

Dirty Harry says ...

Mgmax -- love it! And that's what I meant by "transcends agenda." You can watch and glean what you will from it. I saw TWBB as just the opposite: greed destroying both men as they separately plotted their course to achieve materialism and power -- the very idea of America's capitalistic system.

TWBB is an "over beers" film. you could talk all night about what it all means. That's its near-genius. And though the themes I saw on display were diametrically opposed to my personal beliefs it didn't bother me because those themes were explored through an endlessly-fascinating character and pretty good story (at least the first two-acts). The story wasn't about what I disagreed with, it was about something more - something universal -- the larger theme of how the soul's poisoned.

Now utter shit like Elah and Lambs you couldn't discuss over a thimble of beer. They're useless, artless, pompous, shallow masturbation.

comment #19

christian says ...

Wow. Plainview abandons his son for money and power and he's suddenly a visionary capitalist hero. No wonder the GOP can't find its way with that kind of moral compass guiding them. Good.

comment #20

Mgmax says ...

I also like that when someone paternalistically attempts to interfere in the raising of his child, he strongly affirms the primacy of the family unit over outsiders such as the state. It takes a village? I'll come in the night and cut the village's throat!

comment #21

christian says ...

And Gordon Gecko was a hero too.

comment #22

Dirty Harry says ...

Christian have you seen THE BUCKET LIST and MAD MONEY? Yeah, ole' liberal Hollywood's starting to teach us 'greed is good' now. Just in shittier movies and really, really meaning it.

Or, narcissism is good, which is the same thing.

comment #23

Silverscreenvideos says ...

There were no great movies about Vietnam that were actually made during the Vietnam war, and only one box office success, John Wayne's ultra-right wing Green Berets. The successful commercial and artistic films about Vietnam during the war, like MASH, were allegories deliberately set in other times.

It took temporal and emotional separation before we started to get films like The Deer Hunter, Coming Home and Apocalypse Now. The same thing will happen about Iraq. Five to ten years from now, film makers will still have the same emotional connection with Iraq, and audiences will be more receptive to those movies.

comment #24

Mgmax says ...

Christian-- If Gekko broke the law then he should go to jail--and perhaps, campaign to have the law changed. Nevertheless, the creative destruction wreaked by Gekko (I assume it largely matches that of his real-life models, Boesky and Milken) was an important part of making American industry competitive again, and he belongs in the small but indelible pantheon of heroic business leaders depicted on screen including the revitalizer of popular media Charles Foster Kane, the immigrant success story and family man Vito Corleone, and the innovator in food preservation Adam Trask.

comment #25

Mgmax says ...

Christian have you seen THE BUCKET LIST and MAD MONEY? Yeah, ole' liberal Hollywood's starting to teach us 'greed is good' now. Just in shittier movies and really, really meaning it.

My first thought on hearing about The Bucket List was "Joe Vs. the Volcano."

comment #26

christian says ...

"Nevertheless, the creative destruction wreaked by Gekko (I assume it largely matches that of his real-life models, Boesky and Milken) was an important part of making American industry competitive again"

For reals? Then by that lame argument, Kenneth Lay is a tragic hero for "fucking grandmothers" over as one of his heroic henchmen boasted while Enron ripped off billions of dollars.

You better get to church and pray boy. Jesus ain't having none of your deals wit' the devil.

comment #27

christian says ...

And boy, what a visionary Neil Bush was when he ripped off people and the government had to bail out these S&L socialists.

comment #28

christian says ...

And just for you DH and mgmax next time you call one of us lefties a terrorist enabler, here's Mark Siljander, GOP congressman and God-fearin' Republican businessman....who helped fund Al Queda:

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/01/what_happened_t_2.html

The former Republican congressman from Michigan, Mark Deli Siljander, was charged with money laundering, conspiracy and obstructing justice for allegedly lying about lobbying senators on behalf of an Islamic charity that authorities said was secretly sending funds to terrorists.

comment #29

Dirty Harry says ...

What was interesting about Ken Lay's conviction was that afterwards the jury condemned him for not knowing what was going on in his company -- this is after they convicted him beyond a reasonable doubt for something that could've only meant he knew exactly what was going on. Same with his partner.

Too bad he wasn't a child-rapist, then the ACLU would be fighting on his behalf over such a prejudicial transgression.

comment #30

Mgmax says ...

I can't believe you're such a racist toward Arab-Americans, Christian! Don't you know that those charges were trumped up by the evil Bushitler administration? What do you want to do, waterboard him?

I thought it was downright obvious, but I was having fun with recasting all these movies about evil patriarchal businessmen as tales of entrepreneurial heroism. (God, wasn't Vito Corleone a tip off?) Though one of my disappointments with TWBB is that it doesn't really deal with the oil industry, or capitalism, in any serious sense-- it makes it look spectacular (in a pretty/ugly kind of way), but Plainview's personal problems are his own, unrelated to his business, much moreso than with the obvious inspirations for the character, Adam Trask in East of Eden or Noah Cross in Chinatown. Just as Jake LaMotta would have been an asshole without boxing in his life, Plainview would have been one without oil. Which makes me suspect that Anderson's views are simplistic enough that merely being in the oil business makes you a de facto bad guy. I was hoping for something deeper, more Malickian, about paradise being lost, but it's hard not to look at that movie and think that, apart from his immediate family, Plainview brought a lot of benefit to people and was, on the whole, a pretty decent and upright businessman by the standards of the time.

Oh, and before you get too self-righteous about Republicans, try googling Rosemary Kennedy.

comment #31

PerfectTommy says ...

You and your darn allegories, Mgmax! In the future, please keep things simple.
Oil - bad! War - bad! Bush - big, bad! Three together - Super, evil, bad!

That's the kind of argument I can follow.

comment #32

christian says ...

I thought you were amplifying fer fun, sorry for going all Sergio Leone on you. But I've heard Rush Limbugh say literally the same things in defense of ethic-free crooks, so ya know...

comment #33

Dave Polands Gut says ...

Far left liberal films dont do well. Its just a fact. They're not good movies and they are so far from entertaining its laughable.

comment #34

christian says ...

That would explain the box office disaster of FARENHEIT 9/11.

comment #35

SpinDozer says ...

'Oh, and before you get too self-righteous about Republicans, try googling Rosemary Kennedy.'

Why on earth would we want to do that when googling Repubican malfeasance is so much easier, prevalent, and relevavant to our current state of affairs?

comment #36

SpinDozer says ...

'Oh, and before you get too self-righteous about Republicans, try googling Rosemary Kennedy.'

Why on earth would we want to do that when googling Repubican malfeasance is so much easier, prevalent, and relevant to our current state of affairs?

comment #37

SpinDozer says ...

'...afterwards the jury condemned him for not knowing what was going on in his company -- this is after they convicted him beyond a reasonable doubt for something that could've only meant he knew exactly what was going on.'

uh, the 'condemnation' was for the legal strategy of the "stupid CEO" defense (see Bernie Ebbers). There is no mutual exclusiveness which would pique a reasonably intelligent observer's interest or irony.

comment #38

SpinDozer says ...

'Far left liberal films dont do well.'

Provide a list. Then, provide a list of Far right conservative films that have "done well" to win the big prize. Let's see, 'Man with a Movie Camera' vs. 'Triumph of the Will', who will win???

comment #39

Mgmax says ...

Actually, most movies these days are conservative. Romances end with the promise of eternal love. Police gun down the bad guy without the niceties of due process. Hard work and self reliance are rewarded with victory and triumph. The bureaucrat is the bad guy, the individualist against the mob is the good guy. There are no movies that end with the creation of a new government program to bail out the hero.

comment #40

christian says ...

"Actually, most movies these days are conservative."

Does DH or Medved know this? Why the spittle wasted on Hollywood then?

comment #41

Mgmax says ...

Well, as I've often said, "Hollywood is a city of pinkos making fascist movies."

Who's DH? I'm stumped.

comment #42

christian says ...

You've also recently claimed the economy is doing just fantastic.

DH = Dirty Harry

comment #43

Mgmax says ...

Yes, I'm sure I claimed that there is NEVER a dip along the way.

I'd love to send whiners about today's economy back in time to the 1930s, or even the 1970s. Let alone any century prior to the last one. You'd come back feeling like Donald Trump, just being alive in our present state of prosperity.

comment #44

christian says ...

I'll pass on your pearls of capitalist blessings to the homeless veterans I pass on the streets. Tastes like chicken!

And feeling like Donald Trump? I'd rather have my soul intact.

comment #45

Mgmax says ...

Ah, to be 25 again and still believe that general prosperity is created by the government and stolen by the evil capitalists, before you learn that it's actually the exact opposite way...

comment #46

christian says ...

Ah to be living in California where evil capitalists like Enron get permission from the Bush government to actually steal..

comment #47

SpinDozer says ...

'Ah, to be 25 again and still believe that general prosperity is created by the government and stolen by the evil capitalists, before you learn that it's actually the exact opposite way...'

Like the Robber Barons, buncha loveable lugs, and all because of a free market. When will the commies learn?