comment #1

Dave says ...

Jeff, it's okay to dislike Eastern Promises. It's also okay for me to disagree with you.

See, isn't this easy? Not as much fun as fighting, but better for the soul, no?

As for Best Picture-- DRAINNNNNNNNNNNNNAGE!!!!!!!

comment #2

cinefan says ...

I think part of the problem for Atonement is that the book it is based on has so many ardent admirers who have incredibly high expectations for the film and feel disappointed if the film fails to be as good as the book. I myself loved the book and am a bit reluctant to see the film because I don't think it could live up to the book (I will definitely see the film at some point, though).

comment #3

Geoff says ...

"I TOLD YOU I WOULD EAT YOU!!!"

comment #4

swordandpen says ...

The problem with presumptive best picture winners like Atonement or, in previous years, Dreamgirls and Cold Mountain (anyone remember those movies?) occurs when people other than Oscar prognosticators see the movies and discover they're not all that great. Some people don't want to be told that the Best Picture winner was decided before they actually see the movie.

This has been happening more recently, as opposed to times when presumptive frontrunners like A Beautiful Mind would actually win and then get quickly forgotten by most people.

comment #5

JHRussell says ...

Only Jeff can turn a slam against Atonement into a slam against Eastern Promises...talk about a non sequitur...

Jeff, please post a single list of all these movies you hate/despise/want to see lose, etc, in one place so that I can keep track of them...

comment #6

jeffmcm says ...

Yeah, expectatinos were just too high for it to live up to 'Oscar frontrunner' status. It's a good movie and it has emotional impact, but I suspect that people are seeing that it doesn't have the scope or impact of, say, The English Patient or The Pianist or even a Million Dollar Baby.

Which hopefully clears the field for "I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!"

comment #7

Zimmergirl says ...

Actually, Carr was linking to an Awards Daily piece by Daniel Kenealy:
http://carpetbagger.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/atonement-hilary-clinton/

http://www.awardsdaily.com/?p=1047#more-1047

comment #8

jeffmcm says ...

Oh, and the New York Post is evil (not so strange bedfellows) but that picture and headline combo is pretty funny.

comment #9

christian says ...

Key word this week is "toast."

comment #10

Walter Sobchak says ...

The reason "Atonement" is no longer the front runner? A big, scary, squeaky, metallic Republican attack/hate machine operated by Karl Rove and Dick Cheney.

comment #11

actionman says ...

I thought Atonement was excellent and don't have anything all that negative to say about it. I just thought there were 20 movies better than it this year.

comment #12

Walter Sobchak says ...

"If there's ONE certainty, 'A Few Good Men' is a LOCK for Best Picture."
-Just About Everyone, circa 1992

comment #13

Dan Revill says ...

I watched the film before reading the book. While the book is really well written and obviously it's a strong story, I prefer the film - if only because the ending was reworked to make more of an impact. Don't get me wrong, I'll probably re-read the book one day, but I'll probably watch the film more often. It's one of the best, and unlike say Cold Mountain, it's actually a great film.

comment #14

Gaydos says ...

I have been studiously avoiding "predictions" but Jeff, you've worn me down and against my better judgement, here goes: "Atonement" will be Oscar-nommed for best pic. It may win the whole damn thing. It's what I said the day I saw it months ago and nothing has changed.

BTW: I talk to Oscar voters. A lot of them. And they never even know what the "media" are saying about all this handicapping. They see "Michael Clayton" and like it and vote for it. It's actually a very simple process.

And in case you think I'm carrying water for the Wright film, I think the only one of my five favorite films of the year to get an Oscar best pic nom is "American Gangster."

Don't see it happening for "Four Months," "Before the Devil," "King of Kong" or "Into the Wild."

One last digression: what "There Will Be Blood" needed was Steve Wiebe instead of Paul Dano.

I lied. Another digression. What "No Country" needed was Dean Riesner and Harry Julian Fink instead of Cormac McCarthy.

comment #15

cinefan says ...

Has anyone read the book before seeing the film? I found Lisa Schwarzbaum's review for entertainment weekly (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20163015,00.html) because she clearly admires the book greatly and feels like the film suffers in comparison with the book.

comment #16

Walter Sobchak says ...

It's such a tiresome discussion. The film can almost NEVER live up to the book. Why? Because it's competing with your IMAGINATION!

They are two different mediums, fer cryin' out loud.

(rare exception: "Jaws")

comment #17

truefaith says ...

"....but I suspect that people are seeing that it doesn't have the scope or impact of, say, The English Patient or The Pianist or even a Million Dollar Baby."

Since when did THE ENGLISH PATIENT have scope or impact? It obliterated the politics from the novel and reduced it to a melodramatic love story. For example, there was absolutely no reference in the film about the white people or Americans dropping the atomic bombs in Japan, and the impact this had on the Indian guy who was trained to remove bombs for the white people or English. Yet, THE ENGLISH PATIENT won the Oscar for Best Picture. I'll take ATONEMENT over THE ENGLISH PATIENT anyday. Elaine from SEINFELD was right about THE ENGLISH PATIENT.

comment #18

Craig Kennedy says ...

Had DDL played the young Briony, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

comment #19

jeffmcm says ...

I was just using it as an example. I have mixed feelings about it myself but it still had a scope and 'Oscar'-iness that Atonement lacks, I think.

The subplot about the Indian guy and atomic bombs was filmed but removed in the editing process because Murch and co. felt it was a tangent away from the romantic stuff.

comment #20

truefaith says ...

I wasn't referring to you, jeffmcm, but the people who are not seeing the scope or impact in ATONEMENT as they did in THE ENGLISH PATIENT.

comment #21

Gus Petch says ...

Atonment's plot holes are huge and hard for me to get past: McAvoy being convicted of rape based solely on the testimony of a flighty 13-year-old and a Penthouse Forum letter (and with tons of evidence to the contrary), McAvoy carefully folding that letter and placing it on his desk after he had wadded up all his other drafts, McAvoy remaining passionately in love with a woman who (seemingly) stood by and did nothing while he was convicted of a horrible crime he didn't commit, etc.

comment #22

thatmovieguy says ...

People have been expecting ATONEMENT to be a romance and it's not. Plain and simple. It's a story about -- spoiler alert for those who haven't seen the film -- love derailed by a single awful incident. When people say that don't believe that Briony's accusation could carry so much weight, they should keep in mind the enormous power the class system had in Britain at the time. A daughter of the aristocracy is hurling a charge at a servant's son, who is exactly the kind of person who would have been eyed with suspicion by the ruling class back then: He's trying to rise above his station by getting an education and hobnobbing with his "betters," plus he's having a secret affair with a young lady of a higher social station. He'd be guilty until proven innocent. Even if he was cleared of the charges, someone like Cecilia would be unlikely to rush back to his side because she'd be linking herself (and her family name) to scandal. Cavorting with "commonfolk" may be fun, but not when it seriously endangers your reputation and your family's standing. Yes, Robbie could probably have made a strong case that he was not guilty -- if he and his mother could have afforded a decent lawyer -- but that lusty letter and the word of a "witness" from the manor would have been potent ammunition for the prosecution. The movie's Oscar chances have less to do with the quality of the film than they do with a misperception of what it is supposed to be. It's not a love story; it's about the way one impulsive act can lead to tragedy. THE ENGLISH PATIENT had a much more straightforward romance (a double romance, actually), a la DOCTOR ZHIVAGO or OUT OF AFRICA. That must have greatly enhanced its Oscar appeal.

comment #23

jeffmcm says ...

It's being sold as a romance (lovers doomed by circumstance outside their control), and the movie itself thinks it's about 1/2 romance too and the rest of the time concerned with Briony and her issues.

comment #24

Gus Petch says ...

It's a story about -- spoiler alert for those who haven't seen the film -- love derailed by a single awful incident.

But the movie doesn't even live up to this seven word summary of it. There's no love here at all. If she (Keira Knightley) loved him, she would have defended him with the police and in court, and that would have negated the class factor that you claim trumped everything else in the British courts as recently as the 1930s. Since she didn't, there isn't much of a tragic story.

comment #25

lazarus says ...

Truefaith, as a fan of Ondaatje's novel, I understand your outrage at the removal of Kip's backstory and the atomic bomb issue at the end of the film. However, Minghella worked very closely with Ondaatje during the pre-production and production on the film, and I think they came to an agreement that the Kip material had to go. You're already cutting between present day Italy and flashbacks to Africa, and to yank people again to England to show Kip's training takes away too much from the main storyline.

Politically, I think the theme is more about "no borders" and "a life without maps", and that Kip's outburst would be seen as speaking too much for the other characters and the filmmakers. Kip is more important in the way that he affects Hana's life, and really she's the main character of the story; at least the one that the audience is supposed to identify with. Minghella tried to beef his role up in other ways, showing his reaction to his fellow officer's death, which was pretty powerful.

The ending of the book (a grown Kip in his kitchen with a daughter, if I'm not mistaken), is very poetic, but wouldn't have worked as well in the framework of the film.

I'm obviously a big supporter of the film, and I think it's virtually uncomparable to the book, which was great in different ways. But I think Minghella crafted a very powerful story that says much more than people are willing to give it credit for, and was more creatively told than about 90% of all the other Best Picture winners. The general public might not remember it as much as other audience favorites, but the many people who love the film love it dearly.

comment #26

PastePotPete says ...

I was moved by Atonement at the end but I agree with the trend against the film. Both the implausibility of his conviction and frankly the paper thin plot(at least when you parsed through it later).

The first act was very very well made but overall the production felt like it was showing off to no end most of the time. The tracking shot in particular, while magnificent, served no purpose, or I should say, served no purpose that they couldn't have conveyed with far less effort with one static shot of the beach in chaos.

The structure and final act seemed to me a way to cover up the lack of depth in the story, and that there wasn't actually even a very good ending. Both the fictional ending and actual ending to the story were poor. The meta ending to the film is just a dodge around actually coming up with something that works.

Tell this story straight and it's not worth telling. Which doesn't make it a bad movie but it makes it fall far short of a great film in my opinion.

comment #27

K. Bowen says ...

Count me as one of those who never bought Robbie's conviction sand finds it distracting.

comment #28

lazarus says ...

I agree Paste Pot, it's an easy way out in terms of storytelling, but obviously that's a problem with the source material, and you can't fault them for adapting it faithfully. I feel like there were some really interesting ways to go with those characters, and I could have easily sat there for another 30-45 minutes to find out. One of the least satisfying twists in memory, only salvaged by Redgrave's performance. But you sacrifice giving a shit about two characters for closure with another one.

comment #29

Mario Borroto says ...

Gaydos, I will be laughing very hard when your assured declarations fall flat the day of the announcements. There is no chance Atonement will win Best Picture.

comment #30

truefaith says ...

Lazarus, you made good points in your commentary. You make me want to see THE ENGLISH PATIENT again. And I totally agree with what you wrote, thatmovieguy. Between the two, I think I still prefer ATONEMENT over THE ENGLISH PATIENT (the movies). To me, it just seems that ATONEMENT captured what was going on in England at the time better, and it had more of a bite.

comment #31

lazarus says ...

I don't know if you're British or not, truefaith, but to me it's the sense of international brotherhood, and a lack of local patriotism among the archeologists in The English Patient that I find very inspiring, and ultimately tragic as it's disrupted by the war.

Also, if you're going to get a hold of TEP and rewatch it, you really should listen to the commentary with Minghella, Ondaatje, and Saul Zaentz, which was originally recorded for the Criterion DVD, and actually came on a separate videotape for a VHS gift-set (which also included a copy of the novel). It's pretty eye-opening, and hearing the author speak is great.

And one should also not forget that great book Ondaatje wrote with Walter Murch about film editing. Fascinating stuff.

comment #32

Gaydos says ...

Mario: But you didn't say if you would be laughing it was nominated?

comment #33

Mario Borroto says ...

I feel it will be nominated. It won't come close to cleaning house though.

comment #34

Gaydos says ...

Mario: I said Atonement WILL be nominated, MAY even win. So we agree on the certainty of the nom.So....Can we laugh at each other if it doesn't get nommed?

It missed the DGA today so I'm nervous about my prediction.