comment #1

americanrat says ...

Interesting post Jeff. Did you hear the rumors Hillary won SC too?

comment #2

Larry says ...

Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others. As long as people have been allowed to vote widely for their favorite candidates (not really the plan of our original Consitution, by the way), it's been a case of generally ignorant people (that includes all of us) voting for selfish reasons. This is still better than a small group of well-studied people deciding for everyone else.

comment #3

christian says ...

I think the less well-studied people are actually deciding quite a bit for us. AMERICAN GLADIATORS comes to mind...

comment #4

JohnCope says ...

Speaking of less well-studied...

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-sou--mockconvention0126jan26,0,7289758.story

comment #5

rocco says ...

As long as the majority of voters out there are living in their lazy sloth-bubbles -- those stubborn, intellectually insulated comfort-zone attitudes that people subsist on like fast food -- the neg-heads and the fear-exploiters and the dividers will always color the mood and run the show

This is what gets me...these are the same "blue" people whom you will be standing alongside in November, brothers in arms.

I'm just busting your chops, Wells. I'm glad you're finally accepting that laziness, ignorance, and contentment are not just destroying your party, but are pervasive throughout American society and not relegated to those red areas. 85% of both parties are living in the dark, and they exist everywhere--they are our coworkers who make corporations stifling environments for innovation and creativity, our neighbors who bought houses bigger than they could afford, some are our fellow commenters...

I JUST...DON'T...UNDERSTAND what ANYONE sees in Hillary Clinton, and it's not just the peasants. Not only does Obama share most of the liberal ideals, he's also attractive to independents and conservatives disilluisioned with the Republican party. Even with a middle name "hussein" he is the most electable and he'll win in a landslide in November...

I was speaking with a very smart friend of mine the other day and, god bless his bleeding heart, he's leaning towards Hillary, citing her "experience" through Bill. I nearly reached through the phone to backhand him. WHY???

comment #6

jackkerouac says ...

Undoubtedly, Jeff, you consider whatever "alert, educated and impassioned" voters there might be out there as only those who agree with you, not considering that there might be just as many if not more on the other side of the fence who are just as alert, educated and impassioned. And by 'fence' I am not referring to that which separates democrats from republicans or liberals from conservatives.

comment #7

le corbeau says ...

The Uncle Sam and the Heath Ledger Joker go really well together.

This nation needs an enema!

comment #8

Crow T Robot says ...

Forget it Jeff, it's Clin-to(w)n...

comment #9

christian says ...

"Not only does Obama share most of the liberal ideals, he's also attractive to independents and conservatives disilluisioned with the Republican party. Even with a middle name "hussein" he is the most electable and he'll win in a landslide in November..."

A black man with Hussein in his name faces a massive uphill struggle in the next election. Especially facing off against McCain.

And Obama doesn't share my liberal ideals as far as I can tell. His backers from energy companies etc and his unwillingness to explore investigations against Team Bush is not inspiring nor hopeful. Now Obama is being tested to actually speak up for what he believes in, not for what Oprah and Andy Sullivan want to hear.

comment #10

Gaydos says ...

Jeff: You get the Paul Revere award. You were for Obama before I got there. Last night, I sent his campaign my money.

This whole spectacle of Bill Clinton treating America like it's his own private banana republic has me retching. First he sold out the Dems to Wall Street; now he wants to return all of us, via Shillary, to the grand old days of Southern machine politics, where the Arkansas hog trough of crude political power and cronyism extends from sea to shining sea.

And the alternative? Don't even go there.

We must Obama ourselves out of this nightmare.

THANK YOU for sounding the alarm here and don't stop.

comment #11

SpinDozer says ...

he wants to return all of us...to the grand old days ... where the ...hog trough of crude political power and cronyism extends from sea to shining sea.

You be late to da promised land. We be here already.

comment #12

SpinDozer says ...

"he'll win in a landslide in November..."

Obama might win agianst Mitt the Mormon (thanks to the presence of counter-prejudice), but it'd be a squeaker. Here's a early take on Obama vs. McCain...

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Jan22.html

The guy that runs this site is a (gak) Libertarian, but that foolishness aside his analysis is pretty damned good. He does show HRC losing to "Mackie" too just not as bad.

comment #13

americanrat says ...

SpinDozer -

That guy's analysis was pretty good in 2000 and 2004; but for 2008 the Obama v McCain map has seven tossup states.

All those states will break for the Democrat in November.

Any matchup will be close in 08, just like 2000 and 2004. But like 2000, 2008 will break for the Dems. You might have some fluke like 2000 where Dems lose electoral votes, but probably not. The next president WILL be a democrat.

There's a chance McCain could win . . . because he's a media darling and bona fide war hero. I think Obama's charisma would be enough to cancel this out though. Hillary would have a tougher path with McCain as the nominee.

I'm a moderate Republican but I voted for Clinton twice. I would probably vote for Obama if he gets the nomination, just because I think he hasn't been in the beltway long enough to be wholly corrupted by the special interests. I think there's a lot of independent voters who would go for Obama. And those same independents will vote for McCain over Hillary.

Hillary is bought and paid for. In fact I think there'd be no difference between President Hillary or President McCain/Romney. Business as usual.

comment #14

SpinDozer says ...

Sorry Rat,

Obama has 95 EC wins that are barely Democratic, McCain only 5 that are barely Republican. Compare to HRC, 69 EC wins are barely Democratic, McCain's barely Republican goes to 55. HRC is a much stronger candidate in the general.

comment #15

rocco says ...

yeah, I'm not sure why I said "landslide"...I think it was just a reflex and I didn't read my comment before posting...even losing some middle-ground to McCain, he'll pull over moderate conservatives...between them and the wingnuts casting votes against the departing president, he should be the man come November.

comment #16

le corbeau says ...

Okay, first of all there's still a considerable chance that it could be Hillary vs. Romney rather than Obama vs. McCain.

Secondly, the people who think there's going to be this huge revolt against Bush's party forget that Bush ain't running and neither McCain nor Romney nor anybody else is Bush. The race between whoever the two guys are will take on its own dynamic, based on who they are. Obama and McCain have many similar virtues in terms of style (setting aside issues) and it is hard to say how that would play out.

In other words, I have no idea how this will turn out and neither do you. Predictions are foolish.

comment #17

SpinDozer says ...

'Okay, first of all there's still a considerable chance that it could be Hillary vs. Romney rather than Obama vs. McCain.'

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

'Secondly, the people who think there's going to be this huge revolt against Bush's party forget that Bush ain't running and neither McCain nor Romney nor anybody else is Bush.'

Partially true. To get the nomination, however, you have to deal with the base of the party which has become even more radicalized under Bush (& while McCain & Romney do not claim to be Bush, they do claim to own a piece of this radicalized agenda). IMHO, this base of support can only achieve victory if the candidate in opposition unites the sharply divided factions by being something none can tolerate...black.

'I have no idea how this will turn out and neither do you. Predictions are foolish.'

Again, partially true. Anyone predicting that SC won't be Red in the general absent some politically seismic event would seem to made a reasonably valid prediction. Before you bluster through the analysis, you ought to read it.

comment #18

Dirty Harry says ...

It's been fun watching Dems finally see the Clintons for the divisive liars we've seen them as since 1992.

Of course, you'll only remember that until Hillary wins the nomination.

Blinders back on? Yes, sir. A blow-job is not sex and lying under oath is not perjury. Thank you for the Kool-aid, sir, may I have another.

comment #19

Dirty Harry says ...

Blinders back on? Yes, sir. Bill Clinton never said Saddam had WMD and needed to be taken out if he didn't give them up.

Thank you for the Kool-aid, sir! May I have another?

comment #20

SpinDozer says ...

'It's been fun watching Dems finally see the Clintons for the divisive liars we've seen them as since 1992.'

There's not too many Dems that don't understand that the Clintons haven't always been truthful that don't also understand that the alterative is solid-state shit like Bush and fully appreciate the difference.

What's really fun is to read Reactionary tools posting that this election is the Democrat's to lose (acknowledging the GOP's own pathetic failure) and implying that their party isn't facing a higher risk of disaster against what would appear to be vulnerable opponents.

comment #21

SpinDozer says ...

'Anyone predicting that SC won't be Red in the general absent some politically seismic event would seem to made a reasonably valid prediction.'

Anyone predicting that SC will be Red in the general absent some politically seismic event would seem to have made a reasonably valid prediction.

comment #22

christian says ...

"A blow-job is not sex and lying under oath is not perjury."

And a President commuting the sentence of a convicted staffer who perjured to obstruct justice is something else entirely.

comment #23

le corbeau says ...

Yeah, SpinDozer. Like a 10th of that was in these posts crowing that the outcome was obvious (and matched the predictor's opinions perfectly).

comment #24

D.Z. says ...

Spin: "IMHO, this base of support can only achieve victory if the candidate in opposition unites the sharply divided factions by being something none can tolerate...black."

I think they're over the black thing, and would only vote against Obama if he was gay.

Harry: "It's been fun watching Dems finally see the Clintons for the divisive liars we've seen them as since 1992. Of course, you'll only remember that until Hillary wins the nomination."

I doubt it, since she can't get away with it like Bill.

"Blinders back on? Yes, sir. A blow-job is not sex"

Nope.

"and lying under oath is not perjury."

Not if it's not proven that he lied. Nor if he's not convicted of perjury.

comment #25

SpinDozer says ...

'Like a 10th of that was in these posts crowing that the outcome was obvious (and matched the predictor's opinions perfectly).'

No arguement there.

comment #26

SpinDozer says ...

'I think they're over the black thing'

Eggsellent. You're a tough customer, you'll just need to sign the waiver here.

comment #27

BurmaShave says ...

5-7 points is a landslide. He could easily win by that against Romney, carrying an overwhelming number of Electoral College votes. Against McCain it would be tougher.

comment #28

Mr. Buckles says ...

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.

H. L. Mencken

comment #29

rocco says ...

SpinDoozy is the DZ of politics on this board...to watch them engage in conversation is like watching two children argue about whose father can beat up the other...except DZ isn't a troll. He/she lurks for months at a time, never talks about movies, then pounces once the discussion turns to politics with a condescending and unbending smugness and sense of authority, doling out insults and contrarian commentary with zero aplomb.

SD, you clearly are someone with something to offer...with politics in high season, you look to become a fixture of these boards...just tone down the bravado and maybe, just maybe, consider someone else's opinion from time to time; your own analysis and opinion will carry much more weight.