comment #1

actionman says ...

What a dark, dark, fucked up story.

comment #2

jeffmcm says ...

Too bad Haggis took this interesting story and made such a patronizing, lame movie out of it.

comment #3

actionman says ...

The film was hardly patronizing and lame. It was far better than Crash (a film with some great scenes and moments but hardly deserving of best picture and/or screenplay) and marked a significant improvement for Haggis as both writer and director. Tommy Lee Jones was exceptional and definitely deserves his Oscar nomination. You got more excellent work from Roger Deakins (this, Jesse James, and No Country in the same fucking year!) And while the very last shot of the film was a little too on-the-nose, I thought Haggis did a superb job of patiently telling his story and never letting it smack the audience in the face. The murder mystery elements of the film are tension filled and the statement that Haggis is making about our Iraq veterans cannot (and should not) be ignored.

comment #4

bmcintire says ...

Jesus, Jeff. Your "coverage" of this detail was the sum total of the two sentences you just re-printed. Movie City News' link is to an 8-webpage CBS News story detailing the segment on their "48 Hours/Mystery" television show.
Bitter much?

comment #5

Dirty Harry says ...

"and the statement that Haggis is making about our Iraq veterans cannot (and should not) be ignored."

You mean the statement that they're all drug dealers, sexists, liars, racist (Jones character for crying out loud), murderers, wife killers, monsters who torture prisoners, and otherwise insane and animalistic?.

Elah was a lousy movie after the first forty-minute by any reasonable standard of screenwriting, but it was the single most cruel depiction our the American soldier since, well, since Redacted...

The film was a digraceful and defamatory statement about our Iraq veterans.

comment #6

JaySmire says ...

When scientologists like Haggis drive by an Iraq veteran they know they are the only ones in the world who can help.

comment #7

actionman says ...

"You mean the statement that they're all drug dealers, sexists, liars, racist (Jones character for crying out loud), murderers, wife killers, monsters who torture prisoners, and otherwise insane and animalistic?."

That is not what Elah is saying at all. This is the typical response that so many people have made about some of the recent Iraq/sand movies. Haggis is pointing out that young KIDS (who can't even legally enjoy a fucking beer) are going overseas, killing people, and are coming home mentally scarred and fucked up. Not everyone in the armed forces is a rapist or a degenerate murderer or a racist. But it cannot be denied, especially after we've been bombarded with real-life horror stories about what soldiers are up too in the Middle East, that there are definitely soliders serving our country who shouldn't be holding guns or weapons of any sort. Kids are coming back, like they did from previous wars, as damaged goods. And when you send people who are ALREADY damaged goods into a situation like Iraq, well, then you get events that inform movies like Redacted and Elah.

Tommy Lee's character in Elah was a complex one; he was certainly a bit of a bigot but hardly a Klan member. His racism seemed to stem more from personal frustration than it did from anything else.

I have family members serving in the military and from my conversations with them, I don't think they'd find anything disgraceful or defamatory about Elah...my cousin has openly admitted to me that there are people in the military that are one-stop away from prison before they get to the armed services. So...

comment #8

MiraJeffAICN says ...

Dirty Harry, I don't think I've ever read a more off-base interpretation of a film. If that's what you got from Elah the congratulations, you are officially an idiot.

comment #9

samizdat says ...

Am I the only one who thinks Tommy Lee Jones has had a succession of great roles that Harrison Ford could have had if he'd a) take a chance, and b) play his age?

comment #10

Geoff says ...

All you Elah haters sound like complete idiots.

You can find problems with it if you feel they're there, but it's not like Crash, and it doesn't shout anything at you. For the most part it's a very personal story full of human interaction.

Go watch The Deer Hunter...oh wait...the roulette sequences aren't historicially accurate! It's so god damn false and in your face about emotionally damaged people. Fuck what a horrible film.

comment #11

Dirty Harry says ...

Love Deer Hunter.

MiraJeff -- Saw Elah. Calling me names doesn't change the fact I saw it. Saw how Haggis portrayed every. single. solitary. trooper in that film. Fuckin' cruel. LOVE YOUR SITE!

Let's see how you'd all defend a film that portrayed every black person or gay man in such a cruel light.

But defame the troops...? That's just being oh-so thoughtful.

But don't worry, I won't question your patriotism. (liberal translation: I won't question your jingoism).

comment #12

BurmaShave says ...

Not to keep singing its praises to a ridiculous level, but I think the brief vignette with the homeless vet on the the latest episode of The Wire captured Iraq better than anything else I've seen so far. These are at the end of the day just very young men.

comment #13

ZayTonday says ...

"When scientologists like Haggis drive by an Iraq veteran they know they are the only ones in the world who can help."

Well the difference is that the Church of Scientology proper doesn't acknowledge things like PTSD and says that psychological problems can only be fixed by dropping a shitload of money into auditing courses and this movie doesn't say anything about soldiers with PTSD needing to get help from Scienos.

This movie simply is showing the effect that PTSD is having on our soldiers and that our government obviously isn't doing enough to take care of it. Haggis isn't pushing any crazy Scientology vitamin purification programs or anything on vets like Tom Cruise did in NYC with firefighters after 9/11, so don't make it look like this movie is some kind of Scientology propaganda film, because it's not.

comment #14

Dirty Harry says ...

Actionman: I know you didn't mean to, but you made my point for me. And you're dead wrong. Rather despicable, really.

comment #15

actionman says ...

How am I despicable? Please tell me. Please. Would love to know. Al I did was point out how WRONG YOU ARE.

comment #16

maribou says ...

Um, actually, Haggis combined two different true stories in "Elah" -- the scene where he runs down the kid in Iraq was taken from a story told to him by another soldier...

comment #17

bents75 says ...

In all fairness I should point out that I haven't seen Elah yet, (I thought Crash was a steaming pile of shit, so I didn't rush out).

But what I can tell you Actionman, is that Dirty Harry doesn't want to hear anything about complexity, shades of gray, statistical liabilities, or human nature. His positions are founded purely on issues of black and white, right and wrong, innocent and guilty, good and evil. There's nothing inbetween.

Nevermind the fact that looking beyond the overall suckiness of having to send such young, naive, people to war - the total bullshit nature of it has plummeted recruiting levels and that there are plenty of unsavory types joining the military.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,125220,00.html

He doesn't want to hear anything about facts. You take 125,000 + people from any walk of life, and there's going to be some rotten eggs in the mix.

But not in his mind, to even suggest so, despite the facts, is unpatriotic. Every single person over there is a saint. Right Harry?

comment #18

Ghost072 says ...

I think Elah was a great movie, that was actually very fair to the soldiers - something the Bush administration hasn't been. And the fact that it stuck so closely to the facts of the actual case makes it even more impressive. The fact is, a lot of these soldiers are just kids and, as this true story points out, the adjustment between being trained to "kill 'em all" and coming home isn't always an easy one and our military services are dropping the ball in a lot of cases to help them.

comment #19

Dirty Harry says ...

Actionman's despicable lies about the troops:

1. Haggis is pointing out that young KIDS (who can't even legally enjoy a fucking beer) are going overseas, killing people, and are coming home mentally scarred and fucked up.

--- this is a generalization and a flat-out lie. In ELAH they're ALL "scarred and fucked up." I see you've drank the Vietnam Vet Kool-aid Hollywood created that suucessfully and forever defames our Vietnam Vets as unstable or worse.

2. Not everyone in the armed forces is a rapist or a degenerate murderer or a racist.

----Oh, so there is daylight between you and Haggis.

3. But it cannot be denied, especially after we've been bombarded with real-life horror stories about what soldiers are up too in the Middle East...

---And you were doing so well. What do you have to support such an ugly statement? 10 anecdotes? There are 350,000 men and women rotating in and out of Iraq and with that ratio you bring up that shit? I hate to break this to you but there are 349,975 who ARE NOT creating horror stories. Who are laying down their lives for people they don't even know.

In ELAH every. single. trooper is protrayed as somehow WRONG. Part of truth is context and ELAH is defamatory by any fair standard. But were you or Haggis to talk about the 999.9997% serving honorably that might help Bush.

4. there are definitely soliders serving our country who shouldn't be holding guns or weapons of any sort. Kids are coming back, like they did from previous wars, as damaged goods. And when you send people who are ALREADY damaged goods into a situation like Iraq,

---You are just working so very hard to make my point. Again, what have you got? 12 anecdotes? Which, like Haggis, you dwell, focus, and laud over us completely ignoring the 99.9997% we can and should all be proud of. The 99.997% serving with honor and distinction?

5. my cousin has openly admitted to me that there are people in the military that are one-stop away from prison before they get to the armed services.

---More anecdotes to make your defamatory points and defend a film which portrays every single service member as sick, twisted, sexist, lying, drug dealing, blood-thirsty, or worse...

comment #20

actionman says ...

Harry...you're annoying...and you have taken everything I have said completely out of context...I have better things to do than argue with you anymore...go watch a Disney movie and leave the war films to people with an objective mindset.

comment #21

actionman says ...

I bet you voted for Bush, right?

comment #22

Dirty Harry says ...

Actionman: You said "context." So you are aware of it? Very good, now apply it to your Bush Deranged thinking because your defamatory soda straw look at the military is nauseating and grossly unfair.

Listen to Bents75: "Nevermind the fact that looking beyond the overall suckiness of having to send such young, naive, people to war"

"NAIVE?" Appalling. Truly appalling. You should be so naive. Is that what you think before brave, selfless, honorable, self-sacrificing, and fighting for something other them themselves?

I'm sure Haggis is thrilled to have supporters like all of you.

comment #23

bents75 says ...

Yeah, they're naive because they're trained to follow orders without questioning the constant barrage of lies that their government uses to justify their cause.

And why don't you stop candy coating every point you make. The majority of those 350,000 people joined the national guard to earn money that your elected government failed to supply for them by any other means (i.e. jobs). And in doing so they agreed to guard the nation...hence the name, national guard. Our nation isn't in the middle east.

You just sleep better at night believing that it is. For every one person who voluntarily entered the military for a noble cause - there's probably 9 others you didn't give the choice to and who would come home in a heart beat if they had the option.

comment #24

Dirty Harry says ...

bents75: the more you talk, the more you make my point. Please don't ever stop...

comment #25

Ghost072 says ...

Oh, this is getting ridiculous. The point of Elah wasn't to bash the soldiers and anyone who says it was is just too hellbent on defending President Bush and his cronies to see otherwise. War is hell and it damages everyone it touches - even the winners. That was the point of In the Valley of Elah. And it is a point that deserves making over and over again until it finally sinks in.

comment #26

bents75 says ...

No, I don't make your point Dirty Harry, because you don't fucking have one other than to justify everything that is wrong with this country.

You live in a cartoon world detached from the rest of modern society.

I want you to let me know where you will be on January 20th, 2009 (aka: the happiest and most relevant date, worldwide, in recent history) because I will be there, with a name tag on, prepared to laugh in your face.

And it will be a great day.