comment #1

dave l says ...

Can you seriously not see the difference between a conscious, intentional decision and a careless mistake?

comment #2

AH says ...

Why do you care so much about this story?

comment #3

AJW says ...

Sweeney Todd gets hanged?

comment #4

DarthCorleone says ...

It seems to me that the article is not making the distinction you claim. It's focused on stressing that the death was not a result of doctor error. I don't think there's any doubt that Heath was using the drugs irresponsibly or incorrectly and should not have combined them as he did. But that's still a far cry from a concerted effort at suicide.

comment #5

gruver1 says ...

Who said anything about suicide? He bought it through sloppiness, carelessness, failing to pay attention or being too stoned to care. A kind of passive-aggressive form of suicide, I guess.

comment #6

DarthCorleone says ...

Jeff>> Yes, I'll give you that. (I believe you added the Renfro and Iraq comparisons after I posted that further made your point.)

comment #7

York "Budd" Durden says ...

The only thing I want to OD on is Dickens Cider.

comment #8

dave l says ...

Wells, before you rewrote the post it was clearly about a conscious act of suicide. But I think your revision is even more offensive.

Do you really want to be on record as saying that the American soldiers in Iraq who get maimed and killed are asking for it? Because that's what you're saying.

comment #9

DarthCorleone says ...

Either that or I missed those comparisons the first time.

Regardless, I suppose my position is that it was an unfortunate misstep on his part that many others in a similar situation might have gotten away with at the same threshold of abuse. I do not have the impression that he was stuck in some sort of self-destructive malaise, but I don't know the guy, so I can't say for certain.

comment #10

StanGrossman says ...

I prefer your rants to inadequate milkshakes....

comment #11

gruver1 says ...

No, I'm not. I'm saying if you're in Iraq, it's kind of silly to proclaim you were accidentally killed by a bullet or an IED. Just as it's pretty silly to say you died accidentally if you're into wolfing and snorting everything in sight. Sooner or later a bullet or a bomb is going to get you in Iraq, and sooner or later your body is going to be ovedosed and just expire. Get it? Maybe if you tried slapping the side of your head with the palm of your hand?

comment #12

dave l says ...

You're comparing American soldiers doing their jobs to drug users and overeaters.

I think you should perhaps rephrase that because it sounds more than a little offensive.

Your thought process seems to be very unclear and lashing out at your posters is incredibly unprofessional.

comment #13

DarthCorleone says ...

Hmmmm...I'm not sure we know if he was wolfing and snorting "everything in sight," though. Drug abuse is certainly risky behavior, but we all engage in degrees of risky behavior. I still think it's possible that the event of his overdose was outside the realm of general expected probability.

If I spend all my time on the LA freeways, it could be argued that sooner or later I'm going to get into an auto accident, but "accident" would be the operative word. In an example closer to home, I'd say my behavior (which is drug free) is one day going to get me heart disease or cancer, but I'd hardly say that those are my just desserts. Anton Chigurh is going to get all of us one way or another. This seems like parsing semantics to me.

comment #14

dave l says ...

These are different categories. Heath Ledger mixing drugs is comparable to other unnecessary risky behaviors as drinking too much or driving without a seat belt. It can be described as 'careless'. Soldiers in Iraq aren't typically careless. They're in high-danger situations which means that the better comparison for them is with firefighters who work on oil rigs.

And none of these people are pointing guns to their heads and deliberately choosing their final exit. Sweeping them all under the same rug is insulting to the memories of those involved and to their loved ones.

comment #15

dave l says ...

make that 'firefighters and people who work on oil rigs'. Although I'm sure if you're doing both it's even riskier.

comment #16

BurmaShave says ...

Did you just compare dying in war to a drug overdose? God you're an asshole.

comment #17

gruver1 says ...

I'm going to try this one last time and then I'm going to quit because some of you have steel pots blocking flow of air into your cranial cavities. Operating day to day in an area of extreme risk -- war zones, repeated drug-taking, high-speed freeways -- means that the odds are going to point more and more to fate taking you down sooner or later. An enemy bullet, a needle, the wrong combination of pills, a drunken driver, being on the wrong Baghdad side street when an IED goes off or a sniper takes a shot. If you walk in the Land of High-Risk, it's not exactly an accident when fate finally goes against you. Because you're been tempting fate all along. Now, do you want me to explain it another way? How about you, Burma Shave? You caught up or do you want to go over it again?

comment #18

dave l says ...

Yeah, and you're still not getting it. First of all, there's a huge difference between someone working in a dangerous occupation and someone deliberately partaking in risky behavior. Don't you ride a motorcycle?

Second, the subtext of this post is apparently some kind of sarcastic, smug thing intended to demean the tragedy Ledger's death, and I don't see the point of that aside from arrogance and emotional vacuousness.

comment #19

BurmaShave says ...

No thanks teach, I got it. I think we can perhaps say you could have said it better? It's just a sensitive issue for me, blah blah blah. I wholeheartedly agree on an honest assesment of Ledger, both for honesty's sake and for those younger who looked up to him. Sadly besides you the only person I've seen willing to call him foolish is Bill O'Reilly.

comment #20

gruver1 says ...

Wells to dave l: It's not a profound tragedy worthy of Emily Bronte, I can tell you that. Addicted and stuffing his system with way too many chemicals after destroying his marriage over drug abuse, he banana-peeled his way into an early death and left his small daughter to face life without her natural dad. Tell me, help me out -- what is so "tragic" about a guy killing himself because he was so stoned he didn't realize what he was doing to his system? Tragic? Try rank stupidity. You just have this profound need to give Ledger a pass no matter what. I can smell the teardrops.

comment #21

BurmaShave says ...

Hear hear, stick with that.

comment #22

Joe Leydon says ...

Christ, Jeff, it's only 6:55 pm PST. Isn't it a little early for you to be this drunk?

comment #23

dave l says ...

Yeah, he did all that stuff. So your inference is apparently that he deserves zero sympathy? Fair enough if that's what you really think, even though I don't agree - surely there's a continuum here, from the honor student who gets murdered bon one end of the spectrum to a guy who didn't wear his motorcycle helmet to the guy who accidentally passed out smoking and lit himself on fire to the guy who snorted too many illegal substances to the guy who gets electrocuted on death row. They're all human and they all deserve some kind of consideration, depending on the individual, and there's no point in trying to argue against someone eles'e emotional reaction. If your argument is that there's some kind of thick black line separating those who deserve compassion from those who don't, and this post is where you delineate that (Undeserving: Ledger, Renfro, and soldiers in Iraq. Deserving: uncertain) then that's your choice, and it's certainly arguable. Maybe if you had stated your point more clearly in the first place we wouldn't be having this discussion.

comment #24

gruver1 says ...

Wells to Leydon: Coffee, an apple, a cup of tea, a snadwich and two cans of Full Throttle. Not a drop of alcohol.

comment #25

Joe Leydon says ...

TWO cans of Full Throttle? Hell, that explains everything. After two cans of Monster, I'm ready to shoot anyone who says anything rude about Francois Truffaut.

comment #26

dave l says ...

Now I remember why I only post here every six months. If I wanted to be insulted I'd talk to my wife (ba-dum-ching).

comment #27

alvysinger says ...

What strawman are you arguing against? Who is going around claiming that engaging in high-risk behavior isn't, um, risky? Who is trying to equate Ledger's death to an innocent bystander getting run over by a bus on the sidewalk? The fact that he did it to himself, which nobody in their right mind would argue against, doesn't make it any less sad. He was an incredibly talented young man who was clearly troubled and uneasy living in the world, and his weaknesses got the better of him. Leave him alone and go back to mocking fat people or Steven Speilberg.

comment #28

BurmaShave says ...

Whoa pwnage.

comment #29

berg says ...

For the Love of Benji can't we talk about something we all agree about - like that Fools Gold totally sucks ... Joe I have a case of red bull for you, can't stand the taurine myself

comment #30

Noah says ...

I'd say Heath Ledger definitely ranks as a tragedy. From Oedipus to Romeo and Juliet, the tragedy has been that the main characters are themselves responsible for their own undoing, whether it is their hubris or their ignorance. So to say that Ledger's death is not a tragedy worthy of Emily Bronte is correct. It's more worthy of Shakespeare or Sophocles.

comment #31

T. Holly says ...

But Taxi and Bruges are good, right-o? And Hottie/Nottie is an embarrassement to Wiersma/Elwes. Hey, no one's accounting for arrogance. Heath would have been much better off if he'd had a health scare that wasn't insomnia/anxiety, like this artist I used to go with. 6'4", gorgeous, hung; he thought he was incapable of being harmed by anything or touched by the concerns of ignobles, and he played and worked hard and spent it money fast, compulsively traveling and living it up, and he ingested whatever he thought he needed to be up and down when he wanted, and one day, he had stabbing pains in his back, different than the injuries he brought upon himself, and it was a tumor dangerously close to his spine, capable of paralyzing him. It sidelined him and changed him before he o.d.'ed. Then I dumped him.

comment #32

romeoisbleeding says ...

When can we start the Oscar Balloon for 2008?

comment #33

T. Holly says ...

My apologies to Wiersma/Elwes, the Hottie/Nottie embarrassment is not theirs. The photo is from the "Wonderland" party at Avalon, Hollywood, November 2003.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sundance/2008/01/scene-move-over.html

comment #34

Filmsnob says ...

We get it, you don't care that he died.
Please move on.

comment #35

Filmsnob says ...

We get it, you don't care that he died.
Please move on.

comment #36

Filmsnob says ...

We get it, you don't care that he died.
Please move on.

comment #37

Mjs says ...

Wells,

I doubt this late comment will even be read, but here goes.

I have a theory when it comes to things like this. Would you say all the things you wrote above about Heath to his mother's face? To his sister's face? To his ex girlfriend's face? To his father's face?

If you wouldn't, then you're nothing but an internet coward. I never, ever make a comment online that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying to the person I'm directing it to (if they're alive) or to their loved ones. Anything less is a fucking act of cowardice.

And yes, I'm asking if you'd say it using the same flippant, no big deal, he's a moron, language that you used in your initial post, and in all of your replies.