"Eyes Wide Shut" again

Stanley Kubrick "died almost exactly nine years ago and his shadow still looms large over cinema," says the Guardian's Andrew Pulver. "For me, Kubrick's central achievement is a still unmatched 10-film run of masterpieces, between 1955's Killer's Kiss and 1987's Full Metal Jacket. No other director -- not Ford, Scorsese, Truffaut or Fellini -- has such a strike rate, and it's even less likely that someone will ever again produce cutting-edge work in four consecutive decades.

"In my opinion -- and it is only an opinion -- I only discount Spartacus which, though ambitious, is dated and kitschy, and his final film, Eyes Wide Shut.

"It was to introduce the latter film that Kubrick's producer (and brother-in-law) Jan Harlan came to London to participate in the Barbican cinema's 'Stanley Kubrick 2008: A Film Odyssey' screening program. I saw Eyes Wide Shut when it was released and felt it was the work of someone well past their prime; I saw it again at the Barbican last week and while I can now appreciate its dream structure and Freudian investigation of the subconscious a little more, it still seems a bafflingly obvious meditation on deceit. Can Kubrick really, as Harlan told us, have considered it his supreme artistic achievement?"

On a scene-by-scene basis, Eyes Wide Shut has always been -- will always be -- a kind of vacuum cleaner. Turn it on, watch it for three or four minutes and it sucks you in. Like all of Kubrick's films. Even though it may be the least of them. Which, I agree, it probably is.

I remember reporting nine years ago about the moment when EWS came crashing down the general public. It was at an afternoon screening in Mann's Chinese. The lord high master of the orgy asks Tom Cruise what the password is. "Fidelio," Cruise says. "Yes," the poobah replies, "but what is the password for the house?" And some guy in the 22nd row at the Chinese yelled out "bullshit!"

Posted by Jeffrey Wells on March 1, 2008 at 11:29 AM

comment #1

alynch Author Profile Page says ...

I have trouble with the notion that "Killer's Kiss" is a masterpiece.

Posted by alynch Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:03 PM

comment #2

Jay T. Author Profile Page says ...

I think Kubrick is overrated... there, I said it.

Posted by Jay T. Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:08 PM

comment #3

George Prager Author Profile Page says ...

"She was......................................................................................................................................................a hooker."

Posted by George Prager Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:09 PM

comment #4

George Prager Author Profile Page says ...

Try again.

"She was............................................
..........................................a hooker."

Posted by George Prager Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:12 PM

comment #5

Aguirre Author Profile Page says ...

with all due respect, jeff (and kubrick), no one will ever touch the work of POST-WAR KUROSAWA between 1948 and his legal blindness after RAN in 1985.

DRUNKEN ANGEL
THE QUIET DUEL
STRAY DOG
SCANDAL
RASHOMON
... the idiot...
IKIRU!!!!!!!!!
SEVEN SAMURAI!!!!!!!
I LIVE IN FEAR
THRONE OF BLOOD!!!
THE LOWER DEPTHS
THE HIDDEN FORTRESS
THE BAD SLEEP WELL
YOJIMBO
SANJURO
HIGH AND LOW
RED BEARD!!!
DO'DES-KADEN
DERSU UZALA
KAGEMUSHA
RAN.

jeffy-poo. there's no accounting for taste, but the sheer VOLUME and time-span of masterpieces (each of the above certainly qualifies as such, with THE IDIOT being a "deeply flawed" masterpiece) makes a mockery of kubrick's (also jaw-dropping) string of accomplishments. you may prefer the individual kubrick films to the kurosawa offerings, but as far as the scope and depth of their respective streaks is concerned, the Japanese master takes the cake hands down.

Posted by Aguirre Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:13 PM

comment #6

btwnproductions Author Profile Page says ...

He may have made better films, but SPARTACUS is still my favorite, "kitsch" and all. It has the simple emotion he scrubbed from most of his own productions. Superb work-for-hire and a job exceedingly well done.

Posted by btwnproductions Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:16 PM

comment #7

George Prager Author Profile Page says ...

Anyway...the word "overrated" is overrated. People who use it are being intellectually lazy. What isn't overrated? I happen to like EYES WIDE SHUT. It is an accurate depiction of how insane men can become when they are sexually jealous.

Posted by George Prager Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:17 PM

comment #8

bradcl Author Profile Page says ...

I like Spartacus too. It is very well crafted and effective.

Posted by bradcl Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:19 PM

comment #9

Josh Massey Author Profile Page says ...

I don't remember ever feeling more hollowed out by a film than Eyes Wide Shut.

(That's a compliment, by the way).

Posted by Josh Massey Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:21 PM

comment #10

bradcl Author Profile Page says ...

The Oscars are overrated. The word works in that case at least.

Posted by bradcl Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:22 PM

comment #11

le corbeau Author Profile Page says ...

Want to understand why Eyes Wide Shut is so bafflingly out of touch with 1999 reality?

Go watch Roger Corman's film of The Masque of the Red Death, shot by Nicolas Roeg and heavily influenced by Bergman.

It's a medieval dance of death, not a realistic modern movie. I'm not saying that makes it great... most of what's in it, Kubrick did better somewhere else (Lolita and Barry Lyndon, mainly), but at least it's easier to see why he would make something so odd after you've watched the Corman.

Posted by le corbeau Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:22 PM

comment #12

caslab Author Profile Page says ...

Kubrick was a brilliant photographer.

Posted by caslab Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:35 PM

comment #13

televisiontears Author Profile Page says ...

Though it's not perfect, EWS is one of my favorite post-2001 Kubrick films. It speaks to Kubrick's utter contempt for men (the gender, not the species). All the women in the film (and most of his films) are treated as nothing more than accesories, possessions, and objects to be traded - the girl at the costume shop, the anonymous and submissive tools of pleasure at the orgy, etc. Add to this subtext a touch of dream-world deceit and existential film-noir, and after five viewings, this film really clicked for me. A lot.

Posted by televisiontears Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:36 PM

comment #14

christian Author Profile Page says ...

Kubrick is correct. 2001 is his masterpiece. As somebody else pointed out in that endless thread, 2001: A SPACE ODYESSY is one of the major esthetic achievements of mankind.

And Aquirre is the Criterion of HE. I think you make a great case for Kurosawa. But I wonder if quanity is the main qualifyer? Is one 2001 more worthy than a RED BEARD and SANJURO or even a DO'DES-KADEN, which I love. Or vice versa?

"I don't remember ever feeling more hollowed out by a film than Eyes Wide Shut."

You're right. Exactly like I felt driving home.

MASQUE OF THE RED DEATH is Corman's best film. Given more care in the script, it would be a real classic.

Posted by christian Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:39 PM

comment #15

Craptastic Author Profile Page says ...

I'm of the opinion that Eyes Wide Shut is definately worthy of praise and a compelling take on how men react when sexually threatened... but the thing that kills me about that movie, sticks in my craw every time I see it, is:

The skip-frame "thoughts" of Kidman fooling around with the Navy guy.

They're awkwardly staged, acted and shot.

Posted by Craptastic Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:46 PM

comment #16

erniesouchak Author Profile Page says ...

Wasn't it Morgan Freeman who said "Eyes Wide Shut" was a great idea marred by bad casting? I've always loved him for that.

Posted by erniesouchak Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:56 PM

comment #17

Craptastic Author Profile Page says ...

Yeah... I think it would've been a classic had Baldwin stayed with the Cruise role.

Posted by Craptastic Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:57 PM

comment #18

JD Author Profile Page says ...

If you ask me, Wes Anderson and PT Anderson are both on career-long Kubrick streaks. Neither has produced a dud -- unfair appraisals notwithstanding -- and both continue to push themselves and their talents to new levels. It's also worth remembering that, like the Andersons' least appreciated works, there were several Kubrick films (ie. Lolita, Barry Lyndon, Full Metal Jacket) that were widely derided until quite recently. You could also attribute either of their weakest films to the Spartacus factor, though neither has slipped into the trap of churning out an impersonal-studio-work-of-someone-else's-design quite yet. The Coen brothers probably have the talent to be get a Kubrick-like streak going (Intolerable Cruelty is clearly their Spartacus), but they always bring themselves down with their inexplicable love of broad comedy.

Posted by JD Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 12:57 PM

comment #19

Dr. Smith Author Profile Page says ...

EWS always struck me as what a top-notch director with a huge budget & major stars would have done with the script for a Skinemax flick. Replace Tom Cruise & Nicole Kidman with Andrew Stevens & Shannon Tweed and you've got a cheesy late night soft core thriller.

Posted by Dr. Smith Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 1:00 PM

comment #20

CinemaPhreek Author Profile Page says ...

Wasn't this on other sites like 2 days ago?

I think as we get further from his death and more of the old-guard Cult of Kubrick dies off, there's a lot less sheen to the Kubrick As Genius thing.

And EYES WIDE SHUT has become a footnote in his career, no longer praised in same way it was by those in the cult as many critics simply refused to drink the Kool-aid.

Posted by CinemaPhreek Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 1:00 PM

comment #21

houmas Author Profile Page says ...

Killer's Kiss is no "masterpiece".

Funny that he discounts SPARTACUS, the only actual "populist" film of Kubrick's, which many people acknowledge as being functionally a Kirk Douglas movie where Kubrick was a hired gun. But alas, along with PATHS OF GLORY (another Douglas produced Kubrick), it's still his most human and emotionally resonant piece. And it Thank god for Kirk Douglas I guess, who at least with 2 of Kubrick's films, managed to make it look like the director actually had a soul. And of all the 1950's/1960's ancient Rome epics, Spartacus has arguably aged the best. It's one of those films I can always watch, but since it isn't dripping with cynicism, it makes an odd entry into the Kubrick canon.

And A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, as enjoyable and well acted is it is, is Kubrick's most truly dated and kitsch work. Everthing about the film's "vision of the future", visually looks like like it's comes from the mind of a production designer who lived in 1969. Still a fine film though, with a rollicking performance from Malcolm MacDowell. At least simply SPARTACUS feels like a film of it's era, as opposed to CLOCKWORK, which is supposed to be "modern", but dated pretty quickly.

I don't suscribe to the notion that everything he did was brilliant, and he could often be too detached and clinical in his execution, but he does have an outstanding strike rate and body of work.

EYES WIDE SHUT is still a piece of shit though. Nobody would waste their time overanalysing that picture of Kubrick's name wasn't on it. It's not "misunderstood", just a bad movie. I should know, since I've sat through it about 5 times, just in hopes to see what I might have been missing.

Posted by houmas Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 1:22 PM

comment #22

christian Author Profile Page says ...

SPARTACUS is kind of a perfect Hollywood epic.

Posted by christian Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 1:33 PM

comment #23

Arizona Joe Author Profile Page says ...

Stanley Kubrick is the Picasso of cinema, one of the great artists of the last century.

However, I did not think "Eyes Wide Shut" was nearly as well composed as the others. It had some Kubrickian moments to be sure, and was a heck of a lot better than most films. But it was a disappointment.

I feel the fatal flaw of "Eyes Wide Shut" was the casting. Tom Cruise & Nicole Kidman were not believable as a married couple. Cruise did not have the demeanor of a practicing physician. I did not find Kidman particularly sexy in that film, just sort of an immature twit.

The key would have been to find two intelligent, straight people with palpable affection for each other, and tempt them with an alternative world of adultery and swinging.

It was not too much of a risk for Cruise' character to go to the mansion for all that rarefied fuc*ing and su*king, with all the ennui, listlessness, and silly games in his marriage.

Kubrick could elicit smart performances from a lot of ordinary people, but not this time.

If "Eyes Wide Shut" was made in the 1970s with a couple like Richard Benjamin and Paula Prentiss, it would have been a shocker. In the '90s, it was almost banal.

I recently caught "The Killing" with Sterling Hayden and Coleen Gray. That is a great Kubrick movie.

Posted by Arizona Joe Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 1:40 PM

comment #24

le corbeau Author Profile Page says ...

If "Eyes Wide Shut" was made in the 1970s with a couple like Richard Benjamin and Paula Prentiss, it would have been a shocker. In the '90s, it was almost banal.

Kubrick apparently first had the idea of making a movie of the Schnitzler story in the late 60s. If it had been 90 minutes long and a droll black comedy in 1971, it would have worked perfectly. Being 2-1/2 hours in 1999...

Posted by le corbeau Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 1:49 PM

comment #25

houmas Author Profile Page says ...

It's easy to blame the actors for EYES WIDE SHUT, in an effort to exonerate Kubrick. But it's just a badly executed film, regardless of the cast. Kidman was fine (and she's barely in it). Cruise is as wooden as he's ever been, and he has to carry the movie.

Cruise doesn't help make matters better, but it would still have been the same confused, pretentious narrative with another actor in the lead. It's just badly concieved drivel. The film wanted to be half an Adrien Lyne sex thriller and half an insightful, intellectual look into relationships. It ended up being neither (and I'd take Lyne's exploitataive, but entertaining musings over this pseudeo-intellectuall bollocks). Kubrick is a fundemntally detached director. EWS is always what his version of an "erotic" movie was going to look like (ie, not very erotic, and kinda lifeless).

Posted by houmas Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 1:51 PM

comment #26

corey3rd Author Profile Page says ...

if there's only one reason to "dismiss" Spartacus - it's because Kubrick didn't even direct the first reel - that's Anthony Mann's work. Kubrick wasn't even brought on as a gun for hire. He was brought on as the mop up man.

But at the same time - if it wasn't for the boxoffice of Spartacus, Kubrick wouldn't have been able to become become the legendary director. He probably would have been doing episodes of Rawhide and Bonanza and whatever TV drama Jack Arnold couldn't handle on the backlot. Kubrick's first true masterpiece film is The Killing. Killer's Kiss is a nice effort, but doesn't quite make Raoul Walsh jealous. I liked EWS and still play it around Christmas time.

Posted by corey3rd Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 1:58 PM

comment #27

George Prager Author Profile Page says ...

Arizona Joe, the Paul Harvey of HE, is back!

Posted by George Prager Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 2:02 PM

comment #28

Aguirre Author Profile Page says ...

CHRISTIAN - if only i could be the criterion of... criterion. now there's a dream job. anyhoo, i certainly hear what you're saying about the quality vs. quantity conundrum, and unfortunately i don't think that there's any reliable means with which we could measure... but in response to jeff's initial post - which was concerned with kubrick's "strike-rate of masterpieces" (and let's just assume that all the pertinent kurosawa and kubrick films are indeed masterpieces of some degree), it seems to me that while they both batted 100% during their respective runs, kurosawa voluntarily fielded many, many more pitches while never once delivering anything unworthy of his genius for 37 years. obviously my initial post sorta reeked of personal bias when i hastily crowned kurosawa the victor (as much as i love kubrick, nothing of his hits with the same indelibility as IKIRU in my ever so humble opinion), and kubrick likely would have had similar success had he continued working (and, um, living), but we'll never know for sure.

the moral of the story? herzog always wins. :) p.s. now that i've got your attention, nice work with your site.

Posted by Aguirre Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 2:03 PM

comment #29

le corbeau Author Profile Page says ...

It's not that I disagree with any criticism you care to make about EWS. It's weirdly stilted, it expects us to be blown away by things that aren't that shocking after three decades of daytime TV, it's the work of a 70 year-old man puttering in his garage who hasn't kept up with pop culture and is far, far removed from remembering what it was like when he was divorcing his first wife and wooing his second, 40 years earlier. And it's miscast; imagine someone a little more nebbishy-innocent in Cruise's role, Matthew Broderick say, and suddenly it all starts to work better. But Tom Cruise unaware that the world was full of poontang if he wanted it? (Setting aside whether he actually would.) Or that the world is divided into haves and have-nots, and the haves tend to get laid more? Doesn't work. (How could Tom Cruise convincingly portray being turned away by a weird cult?)

Yet there's something about it that's obviously interesting enough to prompt all this discussion. The AIDS angle, as labored as it is, gives it gravity and almost poignancy missing from the Adrian Lyne type of drama. The intense focus on a marriage whose unquestioned assumptions are starting to come undone is compelling and unlike any other movie. The callousness about class is something you rarely see depicted (although the class preoccupation seems much more English than American-- and certainly it's hard to imagine a rich mens' sex club in America to which a very successful doctor and his hot wife could not belong).

In short, a failure more interesting than many successes....

Posted by le corbeau Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 2:07 PM

comment #30

Arizona Joe Author Profile Page says ...

Paul Harvey? I hate Paul Harvey.

I was schooled by Pete Franklin, who worked in LA, NY, WWWE Cleveland, and KNBR San Francisco.

Posted by Arizona Joe Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 2:20 PM

comment #31

sunny Author Profile Page says ...

For a completely different and fascinating take on EWS, read this thread:

...for the Kubrick fans it seems like it boils down to a story about relationships, fidelity, sex, lust, animalistic urges, "what is reality?" etc.

But for the High Weirdos....it means a lot more.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=8575

Posted by sunny Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 2:46 PM

comment #32

Vitesse98 Author Profile Page says ...

Love "The Killing" (best ending ever?. Love "Dr. Strangelove" (best black comedy ever?. Love "2001" (best space movie ever?). But from then on Kubrick's formalist instincts get the better of him, with "EWS" perhaps the most stilted and formalist of the batch.

I agree that someone like Kurosawa trumps his (admittedly meager) output (esp. if you're talking about great films in a row). Kurosawa was something of a formalist as well, but his films are just so much richer (and, of course, warmer) than Kubrick's body of work.

Posted by Vitesse98 Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 2:53 PM

comment #33

Balthazar Author Profile Page says ...

1. Agreed on Kurosawa and his untouchable-ness. He's amazing.

2. And yes, PTA is off to a 5-for-5 start, but he needs to keep churning away.

Posted by Balthazar Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 2:59 PM

comment #34

oakling Author Profile Page says ...

I just can't believe that was nine years ago!

Posted by oakling Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 3:10 PM

comment #35

fielding Author Profile Page says ...

Trying to think of any of the old bore's films that were actually great or even interesting....Dr Strangelove and The Shining, I guess.

Posted by fielding Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 4:05 PM

comment #36

Nate West Author Profile Page says ...

The price of self-imposed artistic exile is not being invited to the orgy.

Posted by Nate West Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 4:19 PM

comment #37

Strolzy Author Profile Page says ...

As someone who has historically linked, somehow, Kubrick and Cronenberg, how would've Kubrick's 'Napoleon' played with Viggo as lead? Know what? Fuck artifice and fuck you for needing it, I would've liked to have seen one more Kubrick film...got to listen to Modern English's 'Mesh and Lace.' Kubrick was a man who stayed brilliant and I miss him. I wonder has anyone seen Cronenberg in McKellar's "Last Night"? And I'm not getting into the Kubrick-McKellar-Saramago linkage.

Posted by Strolzy Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 5:01 PM

comment #38

mutinyco Author Profile Page says ...

Dr. Strangelove through Barry Lyndon is probably the most impressive streak of any director in history, aside from perhaps Coppola's The Godfather through Apocalypse Now. I think Kubrick's run was more significant, however, for reasons concerning everything from the technical to the conceptual to the unprecedented degree of control he possessed over his pictures (not to mention that 2 of Coppola's were studio hire jobs).

Kubrick sought to move the medium forward not just technically, but formally and conceptually in a manner that is unsurpassed. And it's not just that he sought to do these things in his pictures, but the fact that he personally oversaw every aspect of his pictures from the photography to the editing to the marketing, choosing what theaters could play his movies, even deciding mundane things like where the cafeteria would be located on his sets. (When 2001 won an Oscar for its FX, Kubrick was the recipient as the director of the film's photographic effects.)

He was the fullest embodiment of what a great director aspires to.

Posted by mutinyco Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 5:06 PM

comment #39

christian Author Profile Page says ...

"When 2001 won an Oscar for its FX, Kubrick was the recipient as the director of the film's photographic effects"

Which was not quite fair to Douglas Trumball.

Posted by christian Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 5:41 PM

comment #40

soap-and-water Author Profile Page says ...

it's trivial, but the strangelove - lyndon run also earned him four successive best director noms for four successive films... don't think that's happened before or since.

currently fincher, PTA, the coens and probably james cameron are the only americans to match his consistency.

Posted by soap-and-water Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 5:53 PM

comment #41

soap-and-water Author Profile Page says ...

it's trivial, but the strangelove - lyndon run also earned him four successive best director noms for four successive films... don't think that's happened before or since.

currently fincher, PTA, the coens and probably james cameron are the only americans to match his consistency.

...and intolerable cruelty ain't no spartacus!

Posted by soap-and-water Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 5:54 PM

comment #42

mutinyco Author Profile Page says ...

There were a ton of "directors" including Trumball and Wally Veevers and among others. Different people were in charge of different areas -- motion control, Star Gate, etc. But it was Kubrick who oversaw everything. In that sense he was the director of the photographic effects.

Posted by mutinyco Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 5:57 PM

comment #43

le corbeau Author Profile Page says ...

it's trivial, but the strangelove - lyndon run also earned him four successive best director noms for four successive films... don't think that's happened before or since.

Wyler, 6, for The Letter, The Little Foxes, Mrs. Miniver, The Best Years of Our Lives, The Heiress, and Detective Story (I assume it's okay to not count his war documentaries).

Lean has a streak of 4: Summertime, River Kwai, Lawrence and Zhivago.

Posted by le corbeau Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 6:09 PM

comment #44

Rich S. Author Profile Page says ...

To me, Kubrick is unmatched in his ability to create indelible images, and moments. His films are formalistic, but that is usually the point. You might find directors with one or two "moments" in their careers that have become the shorthand language of cinema. But with Kubrick they come again and again and again.

Slim Pickens riding the bomb and President Muffley in the war room. The apes with the bones, the spaceships dancing to Strauss and the Starchild. Alex and the Droogs in the Korova Milk Bar and committing a brutal home invasion to Singin' in the Rain. "Here's Johnny." "What's your name scumbag?" It's endless.

And there is no director in Hollywood history that did black comedy better.

Posted by Rich S. Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 6:33 PM

comment #45

YND Author Profile Page says ...

I personally consider Kubrick to be the finest American filmmaker, topping Howard Hawks only by dint of the challenging and idiosyncratic nature of his work.

That said, I just cannot get down with THE SHINING or FULL METAL JACKET. Both have their moments, of course, and are still very good films... but the tones of both feel off somehow. Not as "perfect" as the rest of his films. Or something. I've seen them again and again and they always feel significantly flawed.

Given that, I was awfully nervous about EWS continuing what felt like a downward slide in quality. But strangely, I think it's one of his finest films -- standing alongside BARRY LYNDON and LOLITA and CLOCKWORK ORANGE (if not quite achieving the heights of 2001, STRANGELOVE or PATHS OF GLORY). In my opinion it MUST be watched on film, so much of the texture of the film is lost on video. But yeah... I think it's easily one of the best films of the '90s. (And I remember feeling vindicated when Scorsese named it his #4 film (I think) of the 90s on Ebert's show.) It's a dream.

Posted by YND Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 7:17 PM

comment #46

Walter Sobchak Author Profile Page says ...

Who's this Stanley Kubrick you guys are talking about?

-Mick LaSalle

Posted by Walter Sobchak Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 8:42 PM

comment #47

berg Author Profile Page says ...

I can't even begin to count the visual motifs from Kubrick films that appear in A.I. ... the mannequins in the laboratory that recalls the mannequins in the climatic fight scene from Killer's Kiss ... the droogies riding in their sports car and the shot with the guys driving to the emerald city ... the excavation of the boy at the end mirrors the excavation of the monolith on the moon in 2001 ... et al, et al ...

Posted by berg Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 8:46 PM

comment #48

D.Z. Author Profile Page says ...

'And some guy in the 22nd row at the Chinese yelled out "bullshit!"'

I made similar comments during a screening of Blair Witch.

From the few films I've seen of his, Kubrick came off a tad pompous for a guy who copped out on endings. He's not a horrible director for me, just a guy who got elevated to a higher ranking, because of his superior casting decisions.

Joe: "Tom Cruise & Nicole Kidman were not believable as a married couple."

Insert gay joke here.

Posted by D.Z. Author Profile Page at March 1, 2008 11:23 PM

comment #49

Mario Borroto Author Profile Page says ...

I forget his name, but I still cannot forget the discussion I had with a poster here regarding the impossibility of directors like the Coens reaching the level of achievement that Kubrick did during his lifetime. The man moved the medium forward in large ways and did so through a string of masterfully crafted films that showed no "off days."

Suggesting that merely a decent pace of turning out great movies is enough to match is too naive.

I am also a bit baffled by the claim that Kubrick has an elevated status due to his "superior" casting decisions. Kubrick, for the most, worked with actors of average talent. He was never an actor's director and was far more focused on telling the story his way. You can cite this as a flaw, but you can never accuse him of using actors as the centerpiece of his movies.

Posted by Mario Borroto Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 1:11 AM

comment #50

mutinyco Author Profile Page says ...

Kubrick copping out on endings? More so than any other director I can think of, Kubrick nailed his endings: Slim Pickens riding the bomb to oblivion ("We'll meet again..."), the Star Child in 2001, "I was cured, all right" in A Clockwork Orange, signing Redmond's annuity in Barry Lyndon, the photo of Jack in The Shining, M-I-C-K-E-Y in Full Metal Jacket, "Fuck" in EWS...

Posted by mutinyco Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 8:30 AM

comment #51

christian Author Profile Page says ...

"Kubrick, for the most, worked with actors of average talent."

Charles Laughton
Laurence Oliver
James Mason
Peter Sellers
George C. Scott
Sterling Hayden
James Earl Jones
HAL
Malcolm McDowell
Jack Nicholson
Shelly Duvall
Scatman Crothers
Vincent D'Onfrio
Syndey Pollack

I would grant you he didn't always use his talent the best and he was not that great with female roles, but he got immortal perfs from Sellers and Scott and McDowell and that computer.

Posted by christian Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 10:34 AM

comment #52

le corbeau Author Profile Page says ...

The great book on Kubrick and acting has yet to be written, but I think part of his genius was that he stood athwart the Method, yelling Stop!

The last thing he wanted was actors reaching into what they thought were their souls and pulling out some emotion designed to appeal to audience sympathies and make them lovable. (No wonder Brando fired him.) Kubrick's lifelong preoccupation was with the masks we put on, the roles we play, the way power and authority project facades. Nearly every great dialogue scene in a Kubrick film involves people pretending to be something-- Menjou and Macready exchanging soldierly platitudes in Paths of Glory; Sellers (the great actor with no soul to draw on) and Mason pretending to be sexually normal all through Lolita; the rigid military fronts in Strangelove and 2001; Alex telling the grownups what they want to hear all through Clockwork Orange, and the grownups doing the same to each other; the exquisite delicacy of the upper classes in Barry Lyndon, whose central scene is that marvelous moment when Lord whoever cuts Barry dead and lets him know he's no longer accepted in society in terms of the gentlest politeness; Jack and the ghosts talking the language of servile hospitality as they discuss ghastly murder; Lee Ermey teaching the recruits how to stop being human and become Marines.

Normal, naturalistic acting, the tricks of likability, would have spoiled all these scenes. By getting rid of them, Kubrick achieved that insect-on-a-pin effect of pitiless observation. This is where his reputation for 100s of takes came from; he was literally wearing the actors down to get rid of that stuff. (Interestingly, Jack Webb achieved a similar effect by doing the exact opposite-- he would never give actors a script, just teach them their lines one at a time right before shooting and then use the first take, where they were still trying to remember the line and hadn't had a chance to start acting yet.)

And I agree about endings-- my God, who has more perfect, non-sellout endings in his career? The Killing, Spartacus, Strangelove, 2001, Clockwork Orange, that title at the end of Barry Lyndon, Jack in the photo, the last scene in EWS-- those are all NAILED, as well as any ending ever was.

Posted by le corbeau Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 10:42 AM

comment #53

The Bandsaw Vigilante Author Profile Page says ...

You forgot Adam Baldwin and Leelee Sobieski.

Posted by The Bandsaw Vigilante Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 10:50 AM

comment #54

The Bandsaw Vigilante Author Profile Page says ...

(That last bit of mine written without hitting the "refresh" button recently, it seems...)

Posted by The Bandsaw Vigilante Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 10:52 AM

comment #55

christian Author Profile Page says ...

"Sellers (the great actor with no soul to draw on)"

I've never bought that argument. I believe Sellers when I see him.
And certainly even a character like Hrundi Bakshi he imbues with a life force. Sellers was just a great actor period.

Posted by christian Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 11:04 AM

comment #56

le corbeau Author Profile Page says ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLongUBPm5Y

No particular comment on the above, I just love this clip of Sellers.

Posted by le corbeau Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 11:11 AM

comment #57

corey3rd Author Profile Page says ...

who is worse off: the "souless" Peter Sellers or Mike Myers aping Sellers in "The Love Guru?"

While EWS might not be a massive overwhelming masterpiece, it's better than 90% of the crap that gets dished out as Oscar-worthy each fall. Kurbrick might have trimmed another reel out of the film before release, but he died.

And enough with the hermit BS when it comes to Kubrick. he had to have the largest phone bill for a guy who didn't like to talk to people. He wasn't squirreled away in the Unabomber's shed for 40 years hand drawing his movies without any contact with the outside world.

Posted by corey3rd Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 12:17 PM

comment #58

houmas Author Profile Page says ...

Since when were Sydney Pollack and Shelly Duvall "great talents". Sydney Pollack is a director who occasionally cameos in films, as "Sydney Pollack". And Duvall was never a great actress. People just seem to think if you're physically unattractive, you must also be talented.

Kirk Douglas, Nicole Kidman, Aldophe Menjou, Jean Simmons, Ralph Meeker, George Mcready, Warren Clarke and even Matthew Modine (lots of talent, lousy career choices) are better actors than those two.

Posted by houmas Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 1:57 PM

comment #59

christian Author Profile Page says ...

Sydney Pollack tends to steal scenes quite well. He was awesome in HUSBANDS & WIVES. He also did great in TOOTSIE and in EWS he's fun to watch. Even repeating the same thing over and over. "I was there...I was there..."

Posted by christian Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 2:13 PM

comment #60

le corbeau Author Profile Page says ...

Sydney Pollack plays Sydney Pollack very well.

Which of course is all Kubrick wanted from a lot of people-- Lee Ermey playing Lee Ermey, Slim Pickens playing Slim Pickens, Ryan O'Neal playing Ryan O'Neal, etc.

Posted by le corbeau Author Profile Page at March 2, 2008 2:58 PM

comment #61

Sharpel007 Author Profile Page says ...

I think Lean and Kurosawa have the purest filmographies.

1942 - 1984

In Which We Serve
This Happy Breed
Blithe Spirit
Brief Encounter
Great Expectation
Oliver Twist
Passionate Friends
Madeline
The Sound Barrier
Summertime
Bridge On The River Kwai
Lawrence of Arabia
Doctor Zhivago
Ryan's Daughter
A Passasage To India

Posted by Sharpel007 Author Profile Page at March 3, 2008 12:48 PM

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