O.J. Dynamic?
McCain lite is a pretty good retort to Hillary right now. So is "what the hell did she really actually do during the '90s that involved 3 am courage"? So is "where are her tax returns"? For anyone with a modicum of perspective, the fact that Clinton is not only willing but eager to play it butt-ugly and burn the house down in order to take the Democratic nomination is ample damnation.
The dynamic will change -- it's already changing -- but I can't shake this godawful sensation I have in my stomach that Pennsylvania's Reagan Democrats have bought into the fear card that Hillary has thrown into the center of the table, and that the die is cast The older white women love her, and their shlumpy husbands -- in Pennsylvania and perhaps elsewhere -- may be thinking it's better to have a combative battle-axe with a fierce glare and puff-bags under her eyes than the other guy with a new, turn-the-page hymnbook.
It's awful -- a downer of massive proportions -- but Obama is in a situation now and something has to happen. He has to somehow get it on with the Pennsylvania lowbrows and make the vote in their state close...or there may be trouble. He has to at least keep a strong edge in the overall popular vote or certain spineless superdelegates could fold and Clinton could storm the convention and make a tough case, despite the delegate math that she can't win on.
God save us from the timidity, sluggish thinking and pathetic malleability of the Dunkin' Donuts Democrats.
Is there not a certain analogy between the older white women who are standing by Hillary and the "downtown" jury that found O.J. Simpson not guilty in his 1994 murder trial? Did the mostly African-American jury not set a murderer free out of logic-free loyalty because they felt they had to stand by a black man in order to defy, for once, decades of prejudicial handling of African American defendants by a one-sided justice system? What is the difference, deep down, between this and millions of older women standing by Hillary despite her contentious cat-scratch vibe and monstrous negatives that will give not only pause but indigestion to millions of voters in the general election out of a sense of profound loyalty to a woman candidate, regardless of her brief?
Posted by Jeffrey Wells on March 6, 2008 at 4:39 PM
comment #1
mutinyco
says ...
Oh, it's not just Pennsylvania. It's Florida. And Michigan.
Oh, and I still say the current fight is Obama's fault not Hillary's. When somebody is as presumed the nominee/next president as Hillary was, for Obama to mount as serious and ruthless a challenge to that without the ability to outright defeat her...well, that's his choice not hers. She's just fighting back.
Posted by mutinyco
at March 6, 2008 5:35 PM
comment #2
dangovich
says ...
I don't understand your point, mutiny.
Posted by dangovich
at March 6, 2008 5:47 PM
comment #3
le corbeau
says ...
When Hillary gets a call at 3 am, what do you think the substance of that call is?
Not all at once.
Posted by le corbeau
at March 6, 2008 5:54 PM
comment #4
mutinyco
says ...
My point is, she was the establishment -- she had the power and the means. 3 months ago, the Democratic party was in great shape: Hillary was the nominee and most accepted she'd the the next president. Meanwhile, the GOP was a complete mess.
This situation that now exists is because of what I view as naivete and arrogance on Obama's part. You only mount a campaign this serious and ruthless if you can win outright. And he was unable to do that. He completely miscalculated.
Meanwhile, Hillary still has power and money and means -- and above all, determination. And she's using everything she has to fight back -- which is exactly what she was supposed to do in her position.
Personally, I have no problem with the way she's fighting. I kind of respect it. I like the idea that our leader is a tough fucker. We'll see what happens...
Posted by mutinyco
at March 6, 2008 5:55 PM
comment #5
D.Z.
says ...
Jeff: Obama just got a big payday today for his campaign, and he has a month to turn the tables, so let's not give up until the bitter end. Anyway, the fact that people like Ken Lay can get away with their own kind of hit is what keeps me from being bothered by O.J.'s acquittal. The jury then knew what the rest of us only realize now-that the system doesn't work, and that if he was white like John Gotti, he'd be getting life, not the death penalty. So I don't blame them for their decision.
The zombies in Hillary's camp, on the other hand, think everything will be fine, as long as a Clinton is running the show. They don't care whatsoever about evaluating their choice, or acknowledging any potential fall-out from it.
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 5:57 PM
comment #6
D.Z.
says ...
Hillary flip-flopped already. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080306/pl_afp/canadausdemocratsvotediplomacy
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 5:59 PM
comment #7
le corbeau
says ...
Okay, I just saw the parody ad that made the same joke. Never mind.
I still think this one's the funniest, did anyone follow the link when I posted it before?
http://coudal.com/3am.php
Posted by le corbeau
at March 6, 2008 6:00 PM
comment #8
OddDuck
says ...
"Is there not a certain analogy between the older white women who are standing by Hillary and the "downtown" jury that found O.J. Simpson not guilty in his 1994 murder trial?"
I'm trying to figure whether this idea is less, just as, or even more offensive and ridiculous than your Hezbollah analogy from yesterday.
When you make statements like this, do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
Posted by OddDuck
at March 6, 2008 6:03 PM
comment #9
le corbeau
says ...
Anyway, the fact that people like Ken Lay can get away with their own kind of hit is what keeps me from being bothered by O.J.'s acquittal.
It would, of course, be too much for D.Z. to have the honesty to admit that Lay was convicted of 10 of 11 counts and the only reason he wasn't sentenced to jail was because he fucking dropped dead before it happened. That's one hell of a definition of "getting away with it."
Posted by le corbeau
at March 6, 2008 6:05 PM
comment #10
D.Z.
says ...
Mgmax: "It would, of course, be too much for D.Z. to have the honesty to admit that Lay was convicted of 10 of 11 counts and the only reason he wasn't sentenced to jail was because he fucking dropped dead before it happened."
The dropped dead part allowed a judge to overturn his conviction. So technically, he's still innocent. Nice try, though.
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 6:09 PM
comment #11
le corbeau
says ...
No, the judge vacated his conviction due to his being as dead as a goddam doorknob, which is not the same thing as setting an innocent man free to live out his life, Owen Marshall Counsellor at Law.
What punishment exactly were you hoping for? That his corpse would be kept in a cell?
Posted by le corbeau
at March 6, 2008 6:13 PM
comment #12
le corbeau
says ...
HITLER FOUND INNOCENT OF WORLD WAR II
Fuhrer's burned corpse free to try to conquer world again, Allies say
--The New York Times, April 29, 1945
Posted by le corbeau
at March 6, 2008 6:14 PM
comment #13
D.Z.
says ...
"No, the judge vacated his conviction due to his being as dead as a goddam doorknob, which is not the same thing as setting an innocent man free to live out his life,"
Just an innocent dead man.
"What punishment exactly were you hoping for?"
That the punishment would stick, so the employees who were screwed by him could get the money they were owed through his estate...
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 6:15 PM
comment #14
D.Z.
says ...
Mgmax: Shitty analogy, since justice was served in Nazi Germany with us winning, while Enron still managed to keep its stolen money.
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 6:20 PM
comment #15
le corbeau
says ...
What Enron kept what money? Wikipedia sums up: "Enron still exists as an asset-less shell corporation, emerging from bankruptcy in November of 2004 after one of the biggest and most complex bankruptcy cases in U.S. history. On September 7, 2006, Enron sold Prisma Energy International Inc., its last remaining business, to Ashmore Energy International Ltd. Following the scandal, lawsuits against Enron's directors were notable because the directors settled the suits by paying very significant sums of money personally."
In short, you don't know what you're talking about here.
Just an innocent dead man.
I'm pretty sure "dead" is the word in that sentence that matters most to him right now.
Posted by le corbeau
at March 6, 2008 6:28 PM
comment #16
OddDuck
says ...
Mgmax you know you are committing the cyber-equivalent of giving D.Z. a handjob.
You're smarter than this, cut it out!
Posted by OddDuck
at March 6, 2008 6:30 PM
comment #17
gruver1
says ...
Wells to Odd Duck: Yes. Blind loyalty that ignores the greater downside is essentially the same thing the world over, under any circumstances you might care to mention. So my answer is "yes."
Posted by gruver1
at March 6, 2008 6:35 PM
comment #18
D.Z.
says ...
"Following the scandal, lawsuits against Enron's directors were notable because the directors settled the suits by paying very significant sums of money personally"
It doesn't say who got paid, and how it was split.
"I'm pretty sure "dead" is the word in that sentence that matters most to him right now."
It mattered to the judge more than the people who got screwed by him, anyway.
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 6:37 PM
comment #19
OddDuck
says ...
Wells, your problem is that you think anyone who doesn't see it your way must be blind.
Posted by OddDuck
at March 6, 2008 6:46 PM
comment #20
le corbeau
says ...
It doesn't say who got paid, and how it was split.
Say goodnight, Gracie.
Posted by le corbeau
at March 6, 2008 6:47 PM
comment #21
TL
says ...
Seriously, Jeff, buck up.
Hillary can win ALL the remaining contests by 20 POINTS and she's still behind in delegates.
You really think she can convince the supers (who'd rather have Obama anyway, because he's got better nationwide coattails for down-ticket races) to shut out the first African American nominee when he has popular support?
Steel your spine.
Posted by TL
at March 6, 2008 6:58 PM
comment #22
Michael
says ...
"where are her tax returns?"
Are you serious? You think that's a good question? If you get into her tax returns, then you get into Tony Rezko and all of the glory and scum that comes along with old time Chicago politics and turning over the rock its hidden under. You don't want that for your man, Wells.
Posted by Michael
at March 6, 2008 6:58 PM
comment #23
nemo
says ...
"This situation that now exists is because of what I view as naivete and arrogance on Obama's part. You only mount a campaign this serious and ruthless if you can win outright. And he was unable to do that. He completely miscalculated."
If you're going to kill the king (or queen), you'd better make sure you kill him (or her) dead.
She's not dead, so why should she give up?
Posted by nemo
at March 6, 2008 7:03 PM
comment #24
kellyshang
says ...
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Posted by kellyshang
at March 6, 2008 7:18 PM
comment #25
D.Z.
says ...
Michael: How is Rezko any worse than Marc Rich?
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 7:56 PM
comment #26
BurmaShave
says ...
How much you wanna bet Florida and Michigan get their do-overs on April 22nd and it's billed as 'Super Tuesday III'. Could be the end of him, sad to say.
Posted by BurmaShave
at March 6, 2008 8:00 PM
comment #27
christian
says ...
"Is there not a certain analogy between the older white women who are standing by Hillary and the "downtown" jury that found O.J. Simpson not guilty in his 1994 murder trial?"
Awful analogy. What if that "downtown" jury were now Obama supporters? Meaningless. Especially after Lurie's plea to Vote for Obama because he's black...
Can't wait for this to be over.
Posted by christian
at March 6, 2008 8:16 PM
comment #28
SpinDozer
says ...
'Can't wait for this to be over.'
Funny thing is, with the bickerimg/squabbling, etc. all NEWSWORTHY, McCain is worried about being forgotten and disappearing. So, for two, frankly, mediocre candidates, these two may be on to something after all. I quit caring some time ago and, unless either lurches farther to the right, will vote for whomever comes out of Denver with the nod, though its not too easy to do so with anything like enthusiasm.
Posted by SpinDozer
at March 6, 2008 9:49 PM
comment #29
D.Z.
says ...
Actually, McCain's already irrelevant. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080306/pl_nm/usa_politics_poll_dc
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_el_pr/bush_congress_ap_poll
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 10:20 PM
comment #30
le corbeau
says ...
I didn't realize the election was tomorrow!
Posted by le corbeau
at March 6, 2008 10:36 PM
comment #31
D.Z.
says ...
Mgmax: It was two years ago, actually, and the Repugs still don't get they're not wanted.
Posted by D.Z.
at March 6, 2008 11:02 PM
comment #32
D.Z.
says ...
http://www.bushflash.com/jpg/!cid_C37109FD-2727-4E05-8234-6EAC7E231A5C.jpg
Posted by D.Z.
at March 7, 2008 12:38 AM
comment #33
le corbeau
says ...
D.Z., let me remind you of one thing: Dukakis' 17-point lead, summer 1988.
If this political season hasn't proven anything can happen and nothing's settled, I'd like to see the one that would.
Posted by le corbeau
at March 7, 2008 5:15 AM
comment #34
Zimmergirl
says ...
I voted for Obama in the primaries but the hatred of Hillary on this site has been so absurd I'm secretly hoping she not only wins the nomination but wins the presidency. It's enough already. Yuck.
Posted by Zimmergirl
at March 7, 2008 6:42 AM
comment #35
GonePostal
says ...
"The zombies in Hillary's camp," - DZ
This is the kind of statement from Obama supporters that makes me chuckle. Hardcore Obamamaniacs are just as blindly loyal and zombie-like as Hillary supporters and hard-core Republicans. And the best part is that neither side sees just how similar they are. Partisan politics at it's most entertaining.
Posted by GonePostal
at March 7, 2008 7:47 AM
comment #36
D.Z.
says ...
Mgmax: "D.Z., let me remind you of one thing: Dukakis' 17-point lead, summer 1988."
The economy wasn't as awful as it is now. [Not to say that Reaganomics wasn't taking its toll by then, but at least there were still job opportunities for Americans before we got turned into a service economy.] Nor did we have an unpopular war going on then.
Postal: It ain't blind loyalty as much as common sense. The Hillary and McCain whores are just relying on empty slogans which are meant to ignore any responsibility they had for getting us in this mess in the first place.
Posted by D.Z.
at March 7, 2008 9:37 AM
comment #37
mosesjhn
says ...
Seems saw him on a celebrity and millionaire dating site called seekamillionaire.com. I'll help you guys check it out. What if it is true. That would be great.
Posted by mosesjhn
at March 11, 2008 12:25 AM