comment #1

Balthazar says ...

Simmons, maligned by many, is an insightful, funny and passionate writer when it comes to film. Maybe that can be his second career.

comment #2

Celebrity Werewolf Hunter says ...

Simmons is great, though a bit of a homer, and excels in mixing sports with pop-culture but loses steam when he tries to cover sports exclusively as witnessed by his recent NBA columns.

comment #3

Jay T. says ...

I was expecting this thread to be flooded with comments from Simmons haters. Anyway, he makes a solid point, and I agree that Rounders is the best "sports" movie of the past 10 to 15 years.

comment #4

Mr B says ...

Werewolf, are you a big NBA fan? I ask because while I dig his pop culture/sports columns, his straight NBA columns are my favorite. The man knows his sport.

Or are you from LA? He is tough on Kobe, as he should be.

comment #5

Balthazar says ...

The coolest were the columns from 6-7 years ago when he would, say, evaluate every NBA team at midseason by assigning a quote from, say, "Boogie Nights" or "The Shawshank Redemption" to it. Inspired stuff. Plus, he and I are almost the exact same age, so we grew up watching and rewatching Karate Kid, Victory, Hoosiers, etc., and then graduate to adult fare around the same time.

comment #6

Geoff says ...

I reallyl enjoyed reading that - I was sure that my father and I were the only ones who enjoyed American Flyer - the scorching chemistry between Kevin Costner and Rae Dawn Chong.

Also COMPLETELY agree about Rounders - I can just watch that film again and again and again - it has a cast that is just picture-perfect for this type of movie - Norton, Malkovich, Turturro, Landua. Love the film. I thought that my love of poker was a big reason, but I just saw Lucky You and......nope, will not be watching that movie, again.

There are a couple of other, from recent years, that I would add. Dodgeball is just flat-out funny, I don't care what Simmons says. And Bend it Like Beckham is damn fun.

I would add one more film to the list, though I am not sure it qualifies as a sport movie. What about the original Fast & the Furious? It really is quite a charming dumbfun kind of gem that is truly rewatchable. Is streetracing a sport?

comment #7

Geoff says ...

Oh, forgot one more, but it is like 14 years ago and I am not usually big on basketball movies.

Blue Chip - Nick Nolte is just a kick to watch in that movie and the cameo's from the likes of Bob Cousy, Rick Pitino, and Jerry Tarkanian are pure fun.

comment #8

Josh Massey says ...

As I said in an earlier thread, I think Rocky Balboa was the best sports movie in recent years. I rewatched it recently, and thought it was just as good as when I cheered in the theaters.

Oh, and I guess I'm partly to blame for all this. That's me on the right in Remember the Titans. If only they gave Oscars for extras...

comment #9

soap-and-water says ...

There's a shot at the end of the Michael Mann's Ali that's the single greatest fight scene shot and the single greatest sports movie shot OF ALL TIME!

It’s one of the finest shot I’ve ever seen. Cue it up, you’ll be AMAZED.

It’s the slo-mo right that Ali knocks Foreman down with. The last punch from the Rumble in the Jungle. Does anyone remember it?

Won’t bore you with the details, but it dollies slight to the left behind Smith’s as he uncoils the punch and ‘reveals’ foreman’s face over Smith’s shoulder as it connects. Foreman’s jowls wobble, sweat flies and the shot ends on perfect frame of the two fighters – ali’s extended right and foreman stumbling.

The whole shot runs about six seconds and will knock you right on your ass… cue it up and I promise you’ll run it back maybe 10 times, spotting a new detail in the choreography or sound design each time. (a low rumble plays BEFORE the hit lands and BOOMS when it connects).

As a money shot, it’s fucking unbeatable. A Nike ad raised to some beatific state of perfection.

if someone's reading this and has the disc handy, CUE IT UP RIGHT NOW!

There’s another amazing moment earlier in the fight when Ali takes a big hit, staggers and has to spur himself on with a little internal monologue about being in a ‘dream room’. You’ll need to click the subtitles on though, because it sounds like it was recorded with a mouthguard in or maybe cheeks full of cotton wool.

comment #10

Craptastic says ...

Right on, Josh... Rocky Balboa stunned me completely. Absolutely loved it.

The elephant in the room for most people was Stallone's age but it's my opinion that the ballsiest move he made was killing off Adrian. It gave a solid feeling of somberness to story...which made me want to see him fight even more.

comment #11

MiraJeffAICN says ...

Yikes! Clearly the readers of this blog are not Sports Guy's target audience. Though he's far too modest to admit it, Simmons is the single best sportswriter alive right now, simply because he's the most culturally relevant. I grew up in Boston, reading the all the same greats as he did, and I do miss the Globe's sports section, but Simmons's Boston bias is perfect for my sports news consumption. The man knows his shit in every sport, though basketball is his strongest area of expertise, and while he's also a pop culture savant of sorts, his taste in movies isn't always where I'd like to be. I took a class in sports films at NYU, taught be the foremost expert on the subject, and I now feel as qualified as anyone to expound on the genre. So believe me when I say, Josh Massey, that the greatest sports movie of the last ten years is not Rocky Balboa (a truly embarassing pick) but drumroll please... Murderball! Maybe Simmons doesn't count it because it's a documentary but that's really besides the point. The athletes and competitive spirit on display in Murderball are what sports are all about. Remember the Titans is fucking Disney garbage. Rounders, while entertaining, is significantly flawed and Gretchen Mol sucks. And Blue Chips was wayyy ahead of its time.

comment #12

Breedlove says ...

Simmons is a brilliant writer, very funny and very sharp when it comes to sports. I never miss a column. He doesn't know shit about movies, though.

I thought 'Friday Night Lights' was the best football movie I'd ever seen. That's about the only really great sports movie I can think of, off the top of my head, in the past ten tears or so.

comment #13

Breedlove says ...

And Josh Massey, you look just like Joshua Jackson.

comment #14

rr3333 says ...

He forgot to mention 'Fast Break' with Mr. Kotter himself and a young Bernard King.

He LOVES this movie, as do I. Funny he forgot to mention it.

Also, does anyone remember 'The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh' (With Dr. J) ? Bad movie. Fun to remember it though.

comment #15

rr3333 says ...

Oh, and one other thing ...

If he mentions American Flyers, he should DEFINITELY mention my favorite film of all time ... 'BREAKING AWAY'!

comment #16

Josh Massey says ...

Breedlove: You're not the first to say that. The first in eight or nine years, but not the first.

Mirajeff: You're the one with "AICN" in your name, and my taste is embarrassing?

comment #17

Mr B says ...

we should also comment that Bill is a huge Wire fan (although fairly recent convert). Jeff, we are still waiting for you to watch for the love of god.

comment #18

soap-and-water says ...

holy smokes guys, Bill Simon is cute and all, but shouldn't we really be talking about THE SINGLE GREATEST FIGHT SCENE SHOT AND THE SINGLE GREATEST SPORTS MOVIE SHOT OF ALL TIME?!

"It means "Ali, Kill Him!"

check my previous post if you're baffled.

comment #19

Balthazar says ...

Interestingly, you could argue that Chuck Klosterman is better far better at being Bill Simmons than Simmons himself is.

comment #20

Balthazar says ...

Here was Simmons' somewhat painful attempt at writing about a serious issue: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080312

comment #21

rr3333 says ...

Jeff:

I will THIRD the opinion that you have to catch up and watch 'The Wire'. Better than 99.9% of MOVIES made today. Way different than the Sopranos, but in its consistency of excellence, better than Tony and Company.

Mr. B says so as does BILL SIMON (hee hee .... its Bill Simmons, Jeff!).

comment #22

soap-and-water says ...

this ain't over.
not by a long shot.

comment #23

Craptastic says ...

MiraJeff, I once took a paiting class that was taught by Bob Ross. If you'd ever like to discuss painting, let me know because the buck stops here, kister.

Mol does not suck. Check out Betty Page. She's not just a pretty face. She just has a bad agent.

comment #24

BurmaShave says ...

I thought THE ROOKIE was pretty excellent, though admittedly I haven't watched it since theatres in '02. I had big hopes for Hancock, dashed by THE ALAMO, though that's not quite as bad as people say.

comment #25

buckzollo says ...

The next greatest ski movie ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR6ntGJllNc

Fast Break (as mentioned), North Dallas Forty, Slapshot...anyone?

comment #26

Josh Massey says ...

Oh, and sadly Remember the Titans isn't my only foray into bad sports movies. My other extra job: 1989's Oscar-winning classic No Holds Barred, starring Hulk Hogan.

I'm the 12-year-old to the right of Hogan, with my mouth covered up by the kid in front. See that piercing gaze. Brando can suck it.

comment #27

Malone says ...

How can any discussion of 21st century sports films not include MIRACLE?

An excellent movie on virtually every level and eminently rewatchable.

comment #28

Craptastic says ...

Lest we forget.... Hoosiers, Rudy. Great films both.

Would Teen Wolf count? The last game with "Win In The End" playing, shots of fists being pumped and high fives slapped on making baskets = pure cinema glory.

Isn't there even a shot that includes an extra taking his dick out in the stands?

If so... ultimate sports movie! (insert sound of chests bumping)

comment #29

D.Z. says ...

Jeff: You're missing a "t" in "written".

Anyway, I don't keep up with sports movies, but football fans should check out a related manga series called Eyeshield 21.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Eyeshield-21-Volume-1/Riichiro-Inagaki/e/9781591167525/?itm=15

comment #30

dangovich says ...

Regarding Teen Wolf, Michael J. Fox may have been the worst basketball player ever put in a basketball-related movie. Worse than Robby Benson, worse than Adrian Grenier.

comment #31

Craptastic says ...

Dangovich,

That was the point of the movie.

It boggles my mind that I just had to correct someone on Teen Wolf.

The future is fucked.

comment #32

Rich S. says ...

To a certain extent, I think that Simmons looks at these movies through the rose-colored glasses of his youth. I don't necessarily disagree with his thesis, but I think that a kid of the right age might hold Miracle as close to his heart as Simmons holds Hoosiers.

And if we're going to include Rounders, you have to include Searching for Bobby Fischer. Not in the last 10 years, I know, but still a great film about competition and fathers living vicariously through the talents of their sons.

comment #33

bents75 says ...

Allow me to chime in with 'The King of Kong' as a contender for one of the best sports movies of the last 10 years, and one of the best documentaries.

You're goddamn right I said it.

And before anyone disagrees with me, yes, it is a sports movie. It might be about classic arcade game playing but it accurately captures the fierce, passionate, competitiveness and all important record keeping that makes sports great. Plus it's all about hand-eye coordination.

All it's really missing is the teamwork aspect, and that's debatable.

comment #34

DavidF says ...

I don't know if there is a POINT to Teen Wolf but, yeah, casting the petite Mr. Fox as the bball player in question was a bit of a clue to the, um, thematic arc.

And Simmons is a genius. I'd kill for his job. His columns on the Holy Trilogy of the Karate Kid and ranking the Rocky movies are absolute must reads. You'll never think of Zabka the same way again, that's for sure.

Karate Kid
http://espn.go.com/page2/movies/s/simmons/020830.html

Rocky
http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/011207

Rocky

comment #35

JapAdapters says ...

I've been reading SImmons since his Digital City days and the guy's a talented and funny sports writer, who's experience growing up as a sports fan in Boston almost exactly mirrors my own.

His taste in movies, however, is in his ass. The constant Rocky 3 and Karate Kid references (which he applies not just to sports, or movies, but to ... life?) are a clue to what kind of cinematic mind you're dealing with. This is a man who hated No Country For Old Men because it was for 'English majors' or some such bullshit. Translation: he's not smart enough to get it (I guess) and anyone who is is an egghead. Of course he likes Rounders ... he's headed to Gambler's Annoynmous like a mo' fo' -- I'll give odds on that.

Oh yeah, him being the ONLY writer on ESPN that doesn't allow a 'readers talk back' feature is also the least Boston thing I've ever seen. Pussy.

comment #36

gansibele says ...

Wow, I didn't know so many fey HE readers also read Page 2. Anyway, Simmons: overrated, Klosterman-lite (and I'm being offensive to Klosterman) and the worst sportswriter there is because he commits the worst sin for a sportswriter: BEING A GRADE-A HOMER! How can you take Simmons seriously when all his analysis revolves around Boston teams?

His taste in movies is horrible and his taste in music is a close second. The NBA columns were ok until he got on that trip about being a GM and playing with the Trade Machine.

comment #37

The Winchester says ...

Craptastic- you bring up Teen Wolf without mentioning it's brainier cousin, Teen Wolf Too! Bateman in a unitard. If ever there were a better sports moment.

And I'd like to throw in Tin Cup as one of the greatest sports movies. Nobody will remember who won the match, but they'll remember the guy who tried 18 times to get to the green.

comment #38

JapAdapters says ...

gansibele, Simmons isn't a journalist, he's a blogger, so he's not held to the standards of other sportswriters. He is what he is, and he admits it ... which is a path a lot of sportswriters who are supposed to be journalists would do well to follow.

comment #39

christian says ...

Chuck Klosterman is a smug tool. FARGO ROCK CITY is one of the least insightful cultural analysis I've ever read.

Best sports films:

ROCKY
BAD NEWS BEARS
SLAP SHOT
ROLLERBALL
LONGEST YARD
BREAKING AWAY

comment #40

Jay T. says ...

Everyone always calls Simmons a homer, but he's less sold on the Celtics going to the finals this season than most sportswriters across the country (he has said more than once that LeBron would put the Cavs over the top in a 7 game series).

comment #41

gansibele says ...

He's a columnist, not a blogger. As such, his opinion can be considere suspect. And I haven't seen one column where he acknowledges being a HOMER, which is not the same as being a fan. In fact, he's written a few where he pretends he can be objective.

Yes, he has a chubby for LeBron. But nobody believes the Cavs can reach the conference finals.

comment #42

JapAdapters says ...

He's a blogger cum Page 2 writer, which makes him essentially ... a blogger. He doesn't write a column for a a newspaper, he doesn't claim to be a journalist, he doesn't go into locker rooms, and -- more importantly -- doesn't want any of those things.

If you've never read him say these things (or pick the Cavs over the Cs to represent the East in the NBA Finals) then read more. He's addressed them all. In fact, he claims to be a homer ALL THE TIME, and has never denied being one.

I agree that his opinions are suspect, though, especially when it comes to movies.

comment #43

tank33 says ...

So I scanned the comments and can't believe it hasn't been mentioned. But the greatest sports ever produced is Hoop Dreams. An arc to die for, tragic and hopeful. I could watch it daily.

comment #44

gansibele says ...

He DOES write a column for ESPN magazine and carries press credentials. I don't know where you get the doesn't go on locker rooms part, the guy KILLS for access to athletes. He writes all of his own material and seldom comments or links to others (unlike Easterbrook, for example). He's a journalist, like it or not.

ESPN tolerates his homer act because of readership and most of his readership comes from haters. A trick our own Jeff has discovered. Antagonize your audience and they'll tun out in droves to tell you how wrong you are.

comment #45

JapAdapters says ...

Bill Simmons does not go into locker rooms and you'd have to point out how he KILLS for access to athletes. Like who? Like when? Like ... do you even read Bill Simmons?

Like Bill Simmons or not (and I do most of the time) but to say his readership is based on haters is just downright stupid. He's practically their whole website (and IS Page 2) and when his deal was up last Spring he got a killer deal from ESPN, which was desperate to keep him.

comment #46

gansibele says ...

Like when he creamed all over his pants when he shot hoops with Shaq or when he played Madden with a bunch of second tier NFL players. That's just off the top of my head Mr "Like, like, like" What a tool. A Boston fan?

That his audience is mosty haters comes from Simmons himself. He has acknowledged 90% of his mailbox is hate mail. He wrote getting so much hate was like being the Pats. I wonder if YOU read him. And yeah he is page 2. He writes twice a week, half the time he mails it in with a half-hearted rewrite of his tired old themes, and he's the whole website. Now that's downright stupid. Maybe you have the site stats?

comment #47

JapAdapters says ...

Oh my God, you're stupid.

See, playing games with athletes and "creaming" over it is exactly the kind of thing journalists DON'T DO. It's exactly the kind of thing a sports fan DOES DO. That's what he is, a sports fan ... who writes a blog. He is NOT a reporter, as you claim. He isn't held to journalistic standards, and doesn't want to be. He doesn't go in the locker room after games and get quotes, he doesn't cultivate sources, he doesn't talk to coaches, etc. In other words, he isn't expected to be unbiased and has NEVER claimed otherwise. You were wrong, so stop talking about it.

That you would even dispute his worth to ESPN is ridiculous. I guess all those people who listen to his podcast hate him as well, right?

Fact is, I'm not here to defend Bill Simmons. If you want to hate on him, continue on. A lot of people hate him, because he's got the life they want. I like him a lot of the time, but think he's pretty juvenile in general and has horrible taste in movies specifically. If you say you don;t like him, fine, but don't pretend he's a failure ('he goes against a tenant of journalism!'; people only read him because hey hate him! EWtc.) because you're jealous of him.

comment #48

gansibele says ...

Let's see:

You said he doesn't write a column. He does. On ESPN magazine.

You said he's a blogger. He is not. That's not a blog no matter how often you say it.

You say sportswriters don't play games with athletes. Plenty sportswriters participate in charity funtions with athletes like the two I mentioned. What they don't do is cream on their pants over them like Simmons does.

(BTW, "journalistic standards" and sportswriting aren't on the same planet. Don't make me laugh more than you already do).

You say he's not a journalist. He carries ESPN press credentials. I guess they give those to janitors.

You say there are no haters in his readership. Simmons himself delights in his hate mail, so I guess you are arguing with him. I don't know how many people listen to his podcasts or read his column and neither does you.

You say he IS Page 2. He's one of about twenty contibutors to Page 2 and writes twice a week. A while ago he took off to write a book. Page 2 didn't close.

You say he doesn't talk to players, coaches etc. He has interviews in Page 2 with players and coaches. He even interviewed David Stern.

You say I'm pretending he's a failure. I haven't said that. Overrated, unfunny and a homer, yes.

Finally, you say I'm jealous. This is particulary funny, because Simmons schtick is that he's a regular fan who just happen to have a contract, a column and a website section on ESPN. Which I don't believe, but you do. I can't be any more jealous of Simmons than I can be of Bob Costas.

So, it is funny because people like you swallow that schtick hook line and sinker precisely because he's got the "life they want" and you want to believe that you could do it too. He's the sublimation of the commmon fan. So you are the one that's jealous of him, not me.

comment #49

JapAdapters says ...

Lets' see:

I said you're stupid.

You are.

comment #50

gansibele says ...

Ah, I'm arguing with a 13 year old. My bad.

comment #51

JapAdapters says ...

No, you're arguing with yourself (your bad), but -- given your propensity for masturbation -- you probably are arguing with a thirteen year old.

This is going to be tiresome but I'll give it a whirl.

I said in my initial post that Bill Simmons is a talented and sometimes funny sportswriter who has zero taste in movies. I've gone on to say that I understand why some would not like him, but that I myself do (mostly). I've also said that he's often juvenile and has a serious gambling problem. See, I don't want to be Bill Simmons because he'll probably be divorced and in Gambler's Anonymous in five years. A person doesn't have to want Bill Simmons' life to see that you're one of the many haters you speak of.

I never said he wasn't a columnist, I said he wasn't a newspaper columnist because HE WASN'T and ISN'T. I said this because your beef with him is that he shouldn't be a homer due to his status as a columnist, which -- in and of itself -- is a stupid thing to say, because sports columnists are all homers, given they predominantly write about their home paper's teams. (And, if I may, if you have such a disregard for sports reporters, then why does Bill Simmons being a homer bother you so much?)

My point was that Bill Simmons does not work for a newspaper, he never worked a beat, he's NEVER been someone people relied on for unbiased information, because he essentially writes a blog. All those things are true. He came to ESPN not from the Boston Globe or Boston Herald, but from a blog. He continues to write predominantly in a blog style (he posts entire "columns" of links, he writes irreverently about whatever he wants, and he's considered -- by most, if not all -- to be the most successful sports bloggers of all time).

I said these things because your beef with Bill Simmons is that he's not unbiased, and I assumed it was a beef born of the expectation that our news people give us unbiased information. Of course, this was probably assuming way too much of you, but let's go with it anyway: Bill Simmons is not in the business of delivering news (like a sports reporter would) he's in the business of delivering opinion (like bloggers do). He is, as I stated, essentially a blogger, and the fact that he writes for ESPN the magazine or their website doesn't change that.

Now, if you want to hang your stupid ass argument on "he has spoken to athletes!" go ahead, argue to letter of my argument over the spirit (read: masturbate) all day. But, please, also read up on Bill Simmons and see what he has to say about his role in the sports world, about how he doesn't want to enter locker rooms and foster relationships, how he wants to remain a fan, who writes about sports (or... a blogger).

As for you other utterly stupid points: Warren Saap has been given press credentials by ESPN ... and that don't make him a reporter, ya dumb ass (the E is for Entertainment, ya know). Oh, and I'm glad Page 2 didn't shut down the month Simmons was gone (way to argue to your 8th grade level, retard) but he's for damn sure the reason it's successful, and that's why ESPN paid him a TON of money to stay. Or, to put it in the sports world context: The Cleveland Cavaliers won't fold if LeBron leaves, but that doesn't mean he isn't the franchise, asshole. Oh yeah, and Bill Simmons is such a fan of his own critics he's the only ESPN writer that doesn't allow comments of his work on the website.

I don't know what you "believe" about Bill SImmons and, frankly, I don't give a shit (about you or him, really) but I know how you come off; and that's as a hater. i don;t know why he bothers you but I can guess why someone disagreeing with you does: because your an insecure little man who looks down on the "common" man, whatever that means. Fucking tool.

comment #52

gansibele says ...

Ok, 12.

comment #53

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