comment #1

christian says ...

There goes that Audacity of Hope...

comment #2

Indeed says ...

Well, he is telling the truth.

Anyone who honestly believes Obama isnt like every other politician in the fact that everything he says and/or does is simply to advance his political career really has their head in the sand.

comment #3

mutinyco says ...

Who out there actually thought Hillary was attacking Obama worse than the GOP will?...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXxkctYRAZQ

comment #4

gruver1 says ...

Wells to Indeed: Of course he's a politician and all that entails. Everyone knows that. The point is that Wright has all but called Obama a liar and a spinner in terms of his historic Philadelphia speech. That speech came from the heart, and was brilliant. It spoke to multitudes, to the truth of things, to our shared history. It rang with profound truth. I believe this in my heart and my head. But Wright has given Obama's enemies the ammo to call him a cynical politician who says whatever -- who uses great words and a powerhouse delivery -- to get what he wants. I don't believe this about Barack, but the monsters out there now have a new club to beat him down with -- a club that Wright gave them as a gift! On a plate!

comment #5

Josh Massey says ...

Wright is also speaking before a Washington press club and the NAACP next week.

comment #6

Rob says ...

It took this for you to figure out that Wright is a menace? Not the AIDS conspiracies, homophobia or seven-figure mansion paid for by "tithes?"

comment #7

Indeed says ...

Indeed to Wells: I see what youre saying and I agree. For Wright to come out blazing like he did, it is indeed obvious he doesnt care about Obama's political career as some may want him to. Or as much as a previous "advisor" should.

I have to disagree, however, that Obama is some sort of revelation...a new type of politician. He's the same as McCain...the same as Hillary...just different views and different policies he wants to put into place. They are all going to try to get there the exact same way.

Say what you want about the man's policies, but the only candidate who fits the bill your described is Ron Paul. Thats probably a big reason why he has no chance in hell of winning.

P.S. This snippet by Wright wont have any major impact on him as his opposition has been painting him as a cynical politician who says whatever the moment that his history with Wright became apparent.

comment #8

Wrecktum says ...

I think Wells' definition of politician is different than Wright's. Wells believes that the word "politician" implies subterfuge and phoniness. Wright said "He said what he had to say as a politician, I say what I have to say as a pastor. [We're speaking to] two different worlds." Seems to me he's saying something that Wells isn't understanding.

comment #9

admiralmpj says ...

Jeffrey, you claim to hold higher standards than the great unwashed out there who wouldn't vote for a black man in a million years. I've read your stuff, and you do. But, you are, right here and right now, falling for the exact same thing that pushed Rev. Wright out into the public sphere in the first place. You are reacting to a sound bite, and NOT the whole interview. Watch the whole interview first, and if you have the same reaction come out blazing. But do what everyone else isn't...watch the whole thing first.

comment #10

gruver1 says ...

Wells to Admiralmpj: I watched four YouTube segments. Wright is a brilliant man who says many truthful, perceptive things to Moyers, but he torpedoed one of his own, caring not for discretion or any concept of true loyalty or support, delighting in the attention he got from Moyers and caring more about being the hot-shot on a PBS show than about realizing the necessity of not hurting a friend. In personal terms he's absolute poison, and there's only way to deal with that.

comment #11

Wrecktum says ...

In other words, he's not a politician.

comment #12

dangovich says ...

I have to disagree, however, that Obama is some sort of revelation...a new type of politician. He's the same as McCain...the same as Hillary...just different views and different policies he wants to put into place.

He's the same as McCain...just different views and policies? So then, he's not the same. While I would agree with you that Obama is not a revelation, his differences with McCain (particularly on Iraq) are significant and important; far more important than his association with Reverend Wright.

comment #13

mrmystery says ...

That speech came from the heart, and was brilliant. It spoke to multitudes, to the truth of things, to our shared history. It rang with profound truth. I believe this in my heart and my head.

O Jeff, poor Jeff, its sad to see you cling to your delusions like those bitter crackers cling to their guns and god. you truely are the archtypal obama fanboy, you want to believe so very badly, in spite of all the evidence. Hold on to that dream, we can all use a laugh.

comment #14

CharlieDontSurf says ...

What was always going to happen was this. Obama would win the nomination after a long dragged out fight and then he would lose in Nov to McCain.

A lot of the luster of Obama has vanished and he has been a lousy politician when it comes to dealing with the scandals.
Its sad to say but he has been very George Bush like in his handling of the Wright controversy. He could have nipped it in the bud quite quickly and detached himself from the man but instead he choice to be loyal and not disavow him.

He will lose in Nov because of this. Obama already has the problem of a segment of the population 15-20% simply being un willing to vote for a black president. But with the crazy black pastor issue a lot of the people who were on the fence will go the safe route and do what America has been doing for the last 100 years...vote for the rich old white guy.

To be honest...if Obama had any balls I think he should go on O'Reilly and do a 1 hour interview with him...anything goes. and when the touchy subjects come up..simply be truthful. Explain how he came to join the church(he saw how powerful it was in the community he worked in) and why he stayed (political reasons but also he found God while there and felt like he owed a lot of that in part to both the church and Wright).

He would be reaching a large segment of the voting population which doesn't really want to vote for McCain but have become convinced that Obama/HRC are not viable options.

comment #15

Geoff says ...

As an OBAMA supporter I completely agree. He has to smite him. So much ammunition for Sean Hannity and talk radio. FUCK.

comment #16

D.Z. says ...

If Obama goes up against McCain, Johnny will lose, because he's out of touch with the rest of us. How's he going to explain being against equal pay for women, health care for poor children, the Martin Luther King holiday, and supporting torture?

comment #17

bb says ...

Wright is the same man who's words were so insightful and honest last month. Just because they don't serve your purpose right now, doesn't mean they are less honest.

All of this is becoming just sad. Keep the faith Jeff, you've already vilified Clinton to the point that you have nobody else to turn to. Except Nader of course.

comment #18

Indeed says ...

dangovich...read the entire post of mine.

They are the same in the way they do business as politicians...saying whatever they need to say to get votes.

comment #19

truefaith says ...

Americans will soon discover--if they haven't already--that Obama's ethics and morality is no different than Clinton and McCain. The difference is is that Clinton and McCain have political experience and connections which will make them a better leader than Obama.

comment #20

D.Z. says ...

truefaith: I'm not sure how lying about sniper fire and losing the 2000 Republican nomination against Bush count as experience.

comment #21

Nate West says ...

Everyone misses the point. Whether wittingly or not, Wright, with his Moyers appearance and his insinuation that Obama is a "politician" (i.e., two-faced), has just given license to Obama to smack him (Wright) down. Obama's race speech, however inspirational, did not settle the matter; he now has an opportunity, courtesy of Rev. Wright, to construct his own "Sister Souljah moment."

comment #22

Sweetbubba says ...

I can't believe it's taken this long for you and his supporters to realize how poisonous Obama's relationship and tolerance of Wright's vicious, racist, insanity really is -- this point will never go away, and it will be hammered home, again and again, in the general election, because at the end of the day very few people find Wright's racisim and fanaticism tolerable.

It's disturbing, and it's just plain crazy, and by not distancing himself from it by criticizing the source, it'll continue to raise questions of judgment. Victor Davis Hanson said it best: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGFmYjhjYmM0MzUwOGJlOWVhNDBkNzBiMTFjMmZiOWQ=

'Had Sen. Barack Obama (D., Ill.) said the following words in his speech last week on race in America, his problems with his former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, would probably now be over:

“You have all heard the racist and anti-American outbursts of my pastor Rev. Wright. They are all inexcusable. His speeches have forced me to reexamine my long association with Trinity United Church of Christ. And so it is with regret that I must now leave that church.

“I had heard similar extremist language of Rev. Wright in the past, and now apologize that I did not earlier end my attendance and contributions. Had I long ago expressed my strong objections to Rev. Wright’s views, such opposition might have suggested to him a more moderate path.

“But any good that now might come by remaining steadfast to Rev. Wright in consideration of our long past friendship is outweighed by the damage that would accrue from the sanction of his extremism that my continued attendance at his church might convey"

comment #23

christian says ...

For God's sake it's the height of hypocrisy for the GOP to demand anything from Wright or Obama. The Republicans have coasted for decades on the wide support of Looney Tunes who think Armageddon is nigh brought on by fags and Hollywood. Falwell and Robertson have made numerous outrageous, moronic and hateful comments but they get deified by the likes of Sean Hannity, whose own associations with nuts is manifest.

Victor Hanson and the National Review are outraged? Please.
They also wanted Mitt Romney to be president. And nobody asked him to step down from a religion that only recently decreed that blacks could minister. Puh-lease.

But hey, this is what happens when you tangle church and state. It's just expected from the GOP, I guess.

comment #24

Todd says ...

DZ you are "out of touch with the rest of us". Let me try to figure this out for the past few months because Barak has been able to win small states and manipulate caucuses with college students. Hillary who has won every major state primary where each vote counts unlike the questionable caucuses should give in to a candidate who will most likely loose the presidential race. I say this based on the fact he has to much things that are just coming out making him more vulnerable. Not to mention the latest joking I'm hearing about him that they don't play fair in reference to Mccain and Clinton. Wake up the rest of the world governments also don't play fair that's why someone who is a tough Bitch like Clinton would be better as the US President.

comment #25

D.Z. says ...

Todd: Hillary's just won the same states as Gore and Kerry did, when nominated; so that really doesn't mean squat when it comes to the Presidential race. And her so-called toughness got us into this failure of a war in the first place.

comment #26

bb says ...

nate, you make the most compelling case for how this could work out for Obama. It seems so clear after you lay it out. Yet, it is too sleazy to even consider. if that happens, a beer on me.

Christian, your mistake is to think that this is an issue that only the republican party cares about. Obama's problems won't be with the republican party. They will be with average voters. Hard to believe but true.

comment #27

MovieBob says ...

Jeff, the time to throw Wright under the bus was about TWO YEARS BEFORE OBAMA STARTED CAMPAIGNING FOR PRESIDENT.

Of all the things that are infuriating about Obama, his naivete takes the cake. Did he REALLY think this guy would never come up? Just like he REALLY thought no one could've had a tape recorder running in San Fransisco? He's an amateur.

comment #28

swordandpen says ...

It never fails when it comes time to make an important decision as voting for the leader of a country that the media and, in turn, the voting public get worked up over the stupidest, most trivial shit in an election. Look what we wound up with the last two times we focused on gotcha issues as opposed to real ones: a foreign policy dunce who wasn't asked one serious question on the matter during the campaign. Both times!

John McCain's crazy reverend just blamed Hurricane Katrina on gays having parades. Maybe we should devote time to that, since crazy reverends are related to the war, economy, food shortages and the mortgage crisis.

It's easy to blame the media for focusing on this bullshit because it's in their best interests to dumb down the electoral process. But, any voters who are stupid enough to fall for this game the third time around are going to, once again, deserve the candidate who gets elected in November.

comment #29

Mgmax says ...

"Hillary's just won the same states as Gore and Kerry did, when nominated; so that really doesn't mean squat when it comes to the Presidential race"

It doesn't mean squat that he didn't win in the states Dems HAVE to win? It meant squat to George McGovern or Walter Mondale when they lost them in the general.

comment #30

Mgmax says ...

"Jeff, the time to throw Wright under the bus was about TWO YEARS BEFORE OBAMA STARTED CAMPAIGNING FOR PRESIDENT."

Exactly.

I'm amazed at people who think it's a trivial issue. We're electing someone in no small part to fight terrorists, and he goes to a church that believes terror attacks on us are just, and serves on a board with an admitted, unrepentant terrorist. And the people who (rightly) hounded Trent Lott for equally anecdotal connections to white-supremacist groups, and ended careers right and left for the wrong words, now say that sort of thing doesn't matter. I suspect it will matter a great deal to exactly the voters Obama needs, and if it's trivial, than all the identity and gotcha politics the modern left is built on are trivial.

comment #31

MattyCurtis says ...

Intellectual honesty is obviously a hallmark of Hollywood Elsewhere's political "analysis."

Or maybe it's a fanatical devotion to the principle that anyone or anything that doesn't help Obama become president is evil and must be destroyed, including former pastors. So is Wright now one of Hillary's "hounds of hell?"

If Jeff plied this level of tradecraft to his movie biz analysis I wonder what his readership would be like...

comment #32

Mr. Buckles says ...

While I can understand why people would be shocked at some of the comments (the AIDS thing in particular) and the force of the language, I still think too many people act like children with respect to criticism.

Questions:
1. Are not sermons often severe in many churches in terms of addressing sin and injustice?

My understanding in hearing pastor comment on the sermons that lots of his language is couched in the good book and a general preaching style.

2. While there is no reason to ever think we deserved 9/11, isn't there room to consider what the CIA calls Blowback?

We don't live in a vacuum and there have been many regrettable or hard to explain foreign policy positions and actions we have taken as a nation.

3. Can't we put down the pointless and callow high school antics of waiving the #1 signs and look at criticism of America with a little more circumspection?

4. If the media is going to cover this continually, can't we look more at the issue of Blowback (see Chalmers Johnson)?

Surely some of his content can be understood as a critical analysis, right or wrong, of someone who loves his country but not everything it does?

Also, Barry didn't drop him, I think that speaks in some ways speaks to character. Wright does note equal Obama. It would have been easiest for him just to sever ties and he didn't for what I think are complicated reasons.

I repurpose Scent of a Women:

Be careful what kind of leaders you're producin' here. I don't know if Barry's refusal to reject his church and pastor... is right or wrong; I'm not a judge or jury. But I can tell you this: he won't sell anybody out... to buy his future !

And that, my friends, is called integrity. That's called courage. Now that's the stuff leaders should be made of.

Now I have come to the crossroads in my life. I always knew what the right path was. Without exception, I knew, but I never took it. You know why ? It was too damn hard.

Now here's Barry. He's come to the crossroads. He has chosen a path. It's the right path. It's a path made of principle... that leads to character. Let him continue on his journey. You hold this boy's future in your hands, Committee. It's a valuable future, believe me. Don't destroy it. Protect it. Embrace it.

comment #33

Mgmax says ...

Mr. Buckles, I could justify anybody like that. Can we deny that young black men commit too many of the crimes in this country? Can we deny that illegitimacy is a problem in black America and white America as well? Maybe if we'd elected Strom Thurmond, we wouldn't have had all those problems.

No, you can bend over backwards to find good in that kind of talk, I won't.

"Wright is an arrogant egotist and -- I'm sorry but it's true -- a major asshole who doesn't give a damn about Obama's presidential candidacy."

Bingo, Jeff. Congrats. Wright, like Sharpton or Jackson or all that crowd, doesn;t want a black president because it would be bad for them as the leaders of the perpetual grievance movement. That's the real tragedy of Obama-- he was white and black America's chance to escape that and find a new post-racial politics, and then it turned out he went to the Church of Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers just like them.

comment #34

Mr. Buckles says ...

I'm not trying to justify it, but all anyone seems to address are 30 second sound bites anymore.

Our foreign policy is slightly schizo and that is all I am saying. I'm not an expert on the guy nor are you. Lots of people have come out saying he is not what you are saying he is.

That said, I think Bill Cosby has the voice you want to hear. I agree with it. I don't think anyone can deny that aspect of the equation.

comment #35

Dave Polands Gut says ...

Obama is going to lose 47 states in November.

Its going to be fun.

comment #36

Mgmax says ...

"Lots of people have come out saying he is not what you are saying he is."

I'm still waiting to hear the context in which "the government created AIDS," like "flouridation is a commie plot," is not nuts.

Wright's well-dressed congregation is actually doing pretty well, overall, these days, anyone who knows the history of blacks in Chicago can see that, and they listen to this stuff to stoke a sense of victimhood that's unhealthy-- and not, frankly, all that different from white suburban kids listening to rap to feel all ghetto. People who honestly compare Wright to MLK have lost the ability to distinguish between the phrases "I have seen the promised land" and "You'll never get to the promised land."

So I take it you read the Cosby piece at The Atlantic? I think the guy is too determined to dismiss the relevance of Cosby's points, but he certainly gives him ample room to make his point-- and deals with it fairly seriously. It's well worth reading.

comment #37

Mgmax says ...

Oops, meant to link:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200805/cosby

comment #38

christian says ...

Mgmax's intellectual honesty at full speed:

"and he goes to a church that believes terror attacks on us are just"

Where did Wright say that? And why do your fellow right-wingers still honor haters like Falwell, Robertson, Hagee or the racists at Bob Jones University? Just for one second Mgmax, try to be honest about your team. Now tell me, why weren't you ever so outraged by those men of God?

comment #39

Mgmax says ...

I suppose you're going to parse whether the following counts as saying they're "just," in which case, I know what I think of your honesty.

"We took this country, by terror, away from the Sioux, the Apache, the Arrowak, the Comanche, the Arapajo, the Navajo. Terrorism--we took Africans from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism. We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians -- babies, non-military personnel. We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with Stealth Bombers and killed unarmed teenagers, and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working father. We bombed Khadafi, his home and killed his child. Blessed be they who bash your children's head agains the rocks."

"We bombed Iraq, we killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed the plant in Sudan to payback for the attack on our embassy -- killed hundreds of hard working people --mothers and fathers, who left home to go that day, not knowing they'd never get back home. [Even fuller voice] We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye. Kids playing in the playground, mothers picking up children after school -- civilians not soldiers. People just trying to make it day by day. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and South Africa and now we are indignant? Because the stuff we have done overseas is brought back into our own front yard."

"America's chickens are coming home, to roost."

* * *

So by "honor," do you mean "forced to apologize," "ostracized," "lost influence within the Republican party," forced to resign from his ministry"?

Because that's pretty much what happened to those guys you mention. If you're honest about it.

comment #40

bb says ...

"And why do your fellow right-wingers still honor haters like Falwell, Robertson, Hagee or the racists at Bob Jones University?"

I don't belong to a club so I don't have any fellow anythings. And, as an agnostic, I am not informed by the words of any of those guys (although I do remember thinking that Robertson was a nut when he mentioned his power over hurricanes). And, I don't really see them as having a great deal of influence on the people I listen to. McCain has repudiated Hagee in so many different and adamant ways that if you haven't recognized any of those repudiations for what they clearly are then your tv needs adjusting.

Maybe you're referring to Robertson's nutty commercial with Sharpton? Can we both agree about that idiocy?

comment #41

Dsizzle says ...

Wright is in NO way a major asshole. Watch the entirety of the speeches that were sound-bited out. He, like Obama, cares about truth and subtlety and not pandering to idiots. Jeff, you've just proven yourself an idiot who doesn't care about America... not the America of freedom and integrity. You just lost a reader with this post.

Bye.

comment #42

christian says ...

"And, I don't really see them as having a great deal of influence on the people I listen to."

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

Then listen to George Bush claim God wanted him to invade Iraq, or the administration calling the war a "crusade" or look into the overwhelming Christian indoctrination in the military, etc. Or look at Bush convening with Ted Haggard. Of course those religious folk influence people like Bush. They vote for him, they give him money and they give him counsel. And their collected outrages have never sent them to the pastures.

comment #43

christian says ...

But yes, Robertson and Sharpton are pompous fools.

comment #44

bb says ...

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

Oh Jeez Christian, your quoting palestinian sources on something that has been discredited? Is that what you are reduced to?

When you are willing to believe anything about a person, you lose the god given bs detector that tells you when something is blatantly ridiculous. Try harder or carry that tired story back to DailyKos.

comment #45

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "It doesn't mean squat that he didn't win in the states Dems HAVE to win?"

They usually win them, anyway.

"It meant squat to George McGovern or Walter Mondale when they lost them in the general."

McGovern and Mondale were dullards.

"We're electing someone in no small part to fight terrorists, and he goes to a church that believes terror attacks on us are just, and serves on a board with an admitted, unrepentant terrorist."

And you elected a guy who decided to renew business with a dictator who blew up a plane, so...

"And the people who (rightly) hounded Trent Lott for equally anecdotal connections to white-supremacist groups, and ended careers right and left for the wrong words, now say that sort of thing doesn't matter."

Wright didn't advocate racist institutions.

"Can we deny that young black men commit too many of the crimes in this country?"

You mean we deny that white men commit as many crimes, because the prison industrial complex needs its quota. (Google crack/cocaine jail sentence disparity.)

"Can we deny that illegitimacy is a problem in black America and white America as well?"

Of course, the irony is that it's increased more with Republican "abstinence" programs than under sex-ed programs.

"Maybe if we'd elected Strom Thurmond, we wouldn't have had all those problems."

Nelson Mandela did it. You can, too!

"Wright, like Sharpton or Jackson or all that crowd, doesn;t want a black president because it would be bad for them as the leaders of the perpetual grievance movement. That's the real tragedy of Obama-- he was white and black America's chance to escape that and find a new post-racial politics, and then it turned out he went to the Church of Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers just like them."

Yes, and Bush went to Bob Jones. What's your point?

"I'm still waiting to hear the context in which "the government created AIDS," like "flouridation is a commie plot," is not nuts."

Considering they gave us the Tuskegee Experiment, LSD, and Agent Orange, it's not improbable.

"and they listen to this stuff to stoke a sense of victimhood that's unhealthy"

They should embrace white role models like Tim McVeigh and the Trench Coat Mafia....

"and not, frankly, all that different from white suburban kids listening to rap to feel all ghetto."

They listen to rap for the same reason white suburban kids listened to "race" music(jazz and R+B) in the 20s and the 50s: to be entertained.

"People who honestly compare Wright to MLK have lost the ability to distinguish between the phrases "I have seen the promised land" and "You'll never get to the promised land."'

You also seem to forget that MLK spoke out against the war and the inequitable distribution of wealth.

"I suppose you're going to parse whether the following counts as saying they're "just," in which case, I know what I think of your honesty."

The point is that Wright is criticizing our government, not arguing that Jesus loves killing fags and minorities, and anyone who lives near them.

"So by "honor," do you mean "forced to apologize," "ostracized," "lost influence within the Republican party," forced to resign from his ministry"?"

Did Falwell lose his job or get ostracized?

bb: "And, I don't really see them as having a great deal of influence on the people I listen to. McCain has repudiated Hagee in so many different and adamant ways"

And yet he still embraces Hagee, even as he visits New Orleans, which Hagee claimed deserved to be flooded...

"Oh Jeez Christian, your quoting palestinian sources on something that has been discredited?"

It's technically been denied, not discredited.

"When you are willing to believe anything about a person, you lose the god given bs detector that tells you when something is blatantly ridiculous."

So how about those WMDs in Iraq, Iran, and Syria?

Dave: "Obama is going to lose 47 states in November."

Yes, because everyone loves the Republican answer to Carter.

comment #46

Mgmax says ...

D.Z. I love that you expended effort on refuting something that I brought up as an example of a spurious argument.

comment #47

christian says ...

And even tho Bill "Vampire" Kristol declared that America needs no more discussion of race, it's another day in the police state of America after three officers get acquitted of pumping 50 bullets at an unarmed man. I hope Obama has something to say about this.

comment #48

D.Z. says ...

christian: I imagine someone will counter with some rant about O.J.