comment #1

BurmaShave says ...

I knew she was counting on the bigot vote, but for her to actually admit it- wow. I wonder if this will actually cause any kind of shitstorm. I'm sure Olbermann won't be pleased.

comment #2

MASON says ...

She is looking more desperate and awful by the day. And Obama, simply by ignoring her, is going to look better by the day.

And the rumor is Jim Webb for VP.

comment #3

vansmith says ...

never underestimate the bigot vote. 'he just doesn't share our values." is how it will sound..

comment #4

dangovich says ...

It's like watching a fish flop around on a boat.

comment #5

MovieBob says ...

It's ugly business, but she's mathematically 100% correct: Obama can (and will) take the black vote and the white-college-kids vote by STUNNING margins and STILL lose. Neither group is a majority, AND they statistically don't vote in numbers even matching their own potential power. Hillary knows this. People who know politics know this.

If this breaks the way it's shaping up to, you will see something approaching - at least verbally - a minor "civil war" in this country the likes of which weren't seen since the O.J. verdict or Rodney King: Obama will win 90% of what will be called "the black vote" (though it'll more accurately be a black/hispanic/young bloc) and STILL lose 40+ states, and his core constituency will be faced with the disgusting truth that, statistically, they weren't strong enough to "matter" electorally even if they DO organize and coalesce. You think Florida 2000 was ugly? You don't know the meaning of the word.

That said, Jim Webb is (and has been for awhile) the best VP choice any Democrat could make - he's basically a younger McCain (centrist ex-military hardcase.)

comment #6

Krazy Eyes says ...

She's really can't seem to win but she should really know better. Her actual statement makes it sound like she's say black americans are *not* working or hard-working. She also sounds like she's actively courting the uneducated asshat vote.

Of course, the alternative is to just refer to these "white Americans" as "the poor" (as many already have) because then it seems to ignore the fact that many of the blacks voting for Obama are indeed poor as well.

comment #7

BurmaShave says ...

Jim Webb would be fantastic. He's really redeemed his initial underwhelming service with this GI Bill and with the tenacity with which he went after McCain. Plus a progressive Vice Presient would be a big step for my great state of Virginia.

comment #8

vansmith says ...

she is right about the numbers. Good white folk wont fall for this latte sipping negro, its up to the superdelegates to throw obama under the bus or to the back of the bus, but they wont because of their own interest in staying in good graces with their constituents..

comment #9

Midwest Doug says ...

I'm not as cynical about the prospects of a McCain-Obama campaign as Movie Bob. But he's right -- it will all come down to mobilization. Can Obama get those who like him to actually vote? Based on his sucess in the primaries, I think he can.

The other part of the equation is de-mobilizing McCain supporters. And here I think Obama has the big advantage over Clinton -- I believe that more lukewarm McCain supporters would be encouraged to cast an anti-Clinton vote than would cast an anti-Obama vote. Because, deep-down, they feel like they have a reason to hate Hillary. Do they have that reason to hate Obama? They'll try, with Osama associations, Wright mentions, and pin questions, but when it comes right down to it when you hear the man speak, you can't hate him.

comment #10

CinemaPhreek says ...

Folks, you have no fucking idea exactly what was discussed just prior to this statement. I doubt she simply launched into it without some prodding by the reporter along the lines of "You don't seem to be making any headway with blacks or young, college educated" etc.

Or even if she did, are you not watching or reading the election coverage. MUCH is being made about just how much of the important white vote Obama is getting. She's simply pointing out what others have been pointing out for months now.

It's knee-jerk sophomoric observations like this that are my biggest reasons that Wells should not be attempting areas outside of his expertise with such frequency.

And I say this as an Obama voter who has plenty of other reasons to dislike Clinton thoroughly at this point.

comment #11

storymark says ...

And today's Grand Wizard award goes to: vansmith!

Congradulations...

comment #12

Redmond says ...

So, basically, Hillary is saying give me the nomination because I'm white and the hicks will vote for me. Wow, now those are cajones.

Though sadly, this reinforces my increasing belief that Obama needs to make Hillary his VP. Offer to pay her campaign debt which talks are already under way for and let her run with him. If not, I think Obama will get a decent chunk of her white vote who will still vote the party line. Enough of these people wanted her to prevent another Bush 3, they will vote for Obama on those principles.

comment #13

vansmith says ...

I kid because i care, but bringing on hillary as vp could be an interesting move but i doubt he'll do it, you know its turning out like Geffen said, she's so divisive, the clintons in general. Geffen for VP! ha.

comment #14

Movie Watcher says ...

BurmaShave, you're right, Webb would be a great choice for vp. He looks like he'd reach out and punch someone in the mouth. Didn't he say something to Bush about his son in the military? I can't remember exactly what, but man, he looks like he doesn't put up with any bullshit.

comment #15

Josh says ...

Shes not getting out til Denver and why should she? Obama has proven over the past month he could implode ie Wright.

Why quit now?

comment #16

Filthy Rich says ...

It's not racist to be white or talk about the white vote anymore than people talking about the black vote for Obama.

It's a strange choice of words and I'd be willing to bet she's just playing at some stupid political stunt meant to get people to question why white people aren't voting for Obama. Her campaign has been overwhelmingly negative, petty and dirty and that aspect has been gaining more and more speed the further this has been dragging out.

I wouldn't be bragging that college dropouts are overwhelmingly on my side either. But she doesn't have much left to boast about does she?

comment #17

D.Z. says ...

MovieBob: "It's ugly business, but she's mathematically 100% correct: Obama can (and will) take the black vote and the white-college-kids vote by STUNNING margins and STILL lose."

He can and will, and won't lose.

"Neither group is a majority,"

Only when their votes are being suppressed.

"AND they statistically don't vote in numbers even matching their own potential power. "

They did this year.

"If this breaks the way it's shaping up to, you will see something approaching - at least verbally - a minor "civil war" in this country the likes of which weren't seen since the O.J. verdict or Rodney King"

There was no civil war after the O.J. verdict. White people who never had to go to jail for being black were offended, and tried to use it as an excuse to end [non-rich and white] affirmative action, but they eventually chose to shift their outrage to the Lewinsky affair.

"Obama will win 90% of what will be called "the black vote" (though it'll more accurately be a black/hispanic/young bloc) and STILL lose 40+ states, and his core constituency will be faced with the disgusting truth that, statistically, they weren't strong enough to "matter" electorally even if they DO organize and coalesce. You think Florida 2000 was ugly? You don't know the meaning of the word."

Florida 2000 was rigged by Bush's brother and Bush's father's judges. Obama is also not a push-over like Gore.

vansmith: "Good white folk wont fall for this latte sipping negro,"

I'm not sure why being a black man with a latte makes you "bad", but "good" white folk have been voting black for a while now. That's the wave of the future.

Cinemaphreek: "MUCH is being made about just how much of the important white vote Obama is getting. She's simply pointing out what others have been pointing out for months now."

She's pointing it out in a way which is divisive.

"It's knee-jerk sophomoric observations like this that are my biggest reasons that Wells should not be attempting areas outside of his expertise with such frequency."

Dude, no one makes comments like that, unless they're hoping for Willie Horton-like results.

Josh: "Obama has proven over the past month he could implode ie Wright."

He's managed to keep most of his vote, in spite of Wright.

comment #18

bb says ...

I'm not sure Hillary bolded the word white when she said it but she obviously forgot that referring to WHITE people in this election is only ok when the topic is racism.

Maybe we should start calling white people "others" for now on. For instance,"Obama is doing well with blacks and college students while Clinton is doing well with the others." Would that be considered offensive?

But then this Democratic nomination seems to be hinging on who can express offense most often and effectively.

comment #19

JeffTo says ...

I still think her remark is meant to convey a feeling that a black man can't win. And I think it's one more act of desperation. Sorry to tell the "Comeback Kid" but his little wifey won't. What scumbags they are.

This is shaping up to be the most interesting election in my lifetime - even more than '68. Black Man vs. Old Man, Senator vs Senator (the last Senator to win was Kennedy), a very unpopular Republican president, a war. Wow!

More so than any other election the VP choices are critical for both parties. The GOP must go young, but do they go moderate or very conservative? Obviously the donkeys will go white and probably Southern male.

comment #20

cobhome says ...

and while evryone discusses Hillary's less than sensitive remarks - McCain goes major league zenophobic and says "Hamas wants Obama elected" and no one gets excited bout that -

comment #21

D.Z. says ...

cob: No one takes McCain seriously. Hillary's the one who can hurt Obama in the race, though.

comment #22

gruver1 says ...

Wells to CinemaPhreek: So my writing about Clinton's Grand Wizard moment in that USA Today interview was a "knee-jerk sophomoric observation" and typical example of why "Wells should not be attempting areas outside of his expertise with such frequency," eh?

From the 5.9 New York Times editorial page: "We endorsed Mrs. Clinton, and we know that she has a major contribution to make. But instead of discussing her strong ideas, Mrs. Clinton claimed in an interview with USA Today that she would be the better nominee because a recent poll showed that 'Senator Obama�s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again.� She added: 'There�s a pattern emerging here.'

"Yes, there is a pattern -- a familiar and unpleasant one. It is up to Mrs. Clinton to change it if she hopes to have any shot at winning the nomination or preserving her integrity and her influence if she loses."

You have a choice -- one, get down on your knees right now and profusely apologize and beg for my forgiveness, which I may or may not grant, or two, do nothing and live with yourself and the regard that you're going to have to live with for the rest of your life among those who read your stupid-ass remark.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/09/opinion/09fri1.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

comment #23

Mr. Buckles says ...

Like it or not, MovieBob has a point, but how on point is still a developing story.

Here are three good links regarding general electability according to things now (and it is hard to say where O's namebrand will go once all the PACs start their engines)

One Getting Enough of the White Vote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/art-levine/will-obama-win-enough-whi_b_100890.html

On Electoral Math - Obama
http://www.mydd.com/evobama

On Electoral Math - Clinton:
http://www.mydd.com/evclinton

Again, it boils down to OH, PA, FL and perhaps VA and WI.

comment #24

bb says ...

"You have a choice -- one, get down on your knees right now and profusely apologize and beg for my forgiveness, which I may or may not grant, or two, do nothing and live with yourself and the regard that you're going to have to live with for the rest of your life among those who read your stupid-ass remark."

Words fail me.

comment #25

MovieBob says ...

It has nothing to do with voter suppression. It sucks, but African-Americans make up something like 10-15% of the total U.S. population. That's NOT a majority, even if they (as a group) were to vote in numbers truly reflecting their power which they (as a group) historically almost never do. Obama is riding a wave of currently-excited voters from the two LEAST reliable camps in the Democrat base: Minorities who generally under-vote and College Kids who could have moved on to some other fad by November.

This is the only math anyone needs in the current climate: 80% of the TOTAL votes among likely-voters is already more-or-less cast either with "whichever Democrat" or "whichever Republican" because the most reliable voters are the ones who vote FOR THE PARTY. This was true in 2000, true in 04 and is true now.

That leaves 20% of likely voters "up for grabs," and whoever gets a majority of them wins. That 20% is NOT an even mix of people, it's dominated by a single demographic: White upper-middle class college-educated women over 30. Socially live-and-let-live, fiscally conservative, primarily concerned about economy (i.e. how expensive what they need to buy is) and security. Hillary Clinton is going to stay in this race to the convention so that all these women see their chance to show their daughters a female president "taken away" and GIVEN (since this will have to be a brokered convention at this point) to a guy who reminds them of the smug "kid" who outranks them at work.

20%. And all McCain needs is for 11 of that 20 to vote for him instead of their first-choice Hillary. Unlikely? Ask yourself this question: Who has been nearly every Democrat's favorite Republican for the last decade?

comment #26

D.Z. says ...

Bob: "It sucks, but African-Americans make up something like 10-15% of the total U.S. population. That's NOT a majority, even if they (as a group) were to vote in numbers truly reflecting their power which they (as a group) historically almost never do. Obama is riding a wave of currently-excited voters from the two LEAST reliable camps in the Democrat base: Minorities who generally under-vote and College Kids who could have moved on to some other fad by November."

You seem to forget anti-war and anti-Bush voters.

"This is the only math anyone needs in the current climate: 80% of the TOTAL votes among likely-voters is already more-or-less cast either with "whichever Democrat" or "whichever Republican" because the most reliable voters are the ones who vote FOR THE PARTY. This was true in 2000, true in 04 and is true now."

I don't see many people decided on McCain, though.

"Ask yourself this question: Who has been nearly every Democrat's favorite Republican for the last decade?"

Um, Dems don't know who McCain is; the last Republican they respected was Reagan. And, other than being too old for the job, McCain is no Reagan.