comment #1

York "Budd" Durden says ...

The long cut is a flawed masterpiece--fatally flawed, unfortunately. Beautiful looking, though.

comment #2

Edward says ...

Count me in on liking the film when I it when it was first released. I'd love to see it again on the big screen to gage what my reaction today would be.

comment #3

Edward says ...

So much for proof-reading. Must be distracted by "I Puritani" on OPB HD.

comment #4

actionman says ...

I would love to check this out but I won't be in town...typical...

I have always wanted to see Cimino's The Sunchaser with Woody Harrelson; sadly it's never gotten a DVD release...

comment #5

p.Vice says ...

I saw this at the FIlm Forum a few years ago... even on their smallish screen it was a memorable experience. It is absolutely flawed but I've never understood why the film has been so reviled other than after the production mess and Deer Hunter Oscars, there was no way it could meet expectations. Another case of the surrounding hype sinking a movie that's a lot more interesting than was initially given credit for.

That said, I'm still waiting for the revival of Cimino's true masterpiece, Year of the Dragon...

comment #6

R. Hunt says ...

I'd credit Robin Wood's essay on the film in "Hollywood from Vietnam to Reagan" as being as significant to the film's reputation as Feeney. And by the way, "Sunchaser" is Cimino's worst film, the only one I'd write off as a complete disaster (I'm being charitable and not counting his bizarre contribution to "To Each His Cinema" ...)

comment #7

btwnproductions says ...

It was Wood's essay that got the ball rolling on the rethink of HEAVEN'S GATE, which impressed me greatly on laserdisc when it reached the format, letterboxed, in the early 90s. Its failures were magnified on the bigger Film Forum screen but so were its virtues. There are worse pictures.

comment #8

btwnproductions says ...

I would add that if you have the patience for THE ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES..., you might give HEAVEN'S GATE a try.

comment #9

actionman says ...

Holy shit, my world is spinning...I actually agree with p.Vice on something!

Year of the Dragon is a terrific movie.

comment #10

CinemaPhreek says ...

Beyond the fact that the film is a miscast bore and wastes a great post--modern Western story of the Johnson County War, it is also seen as the death blow Cimino dealt to the cinema of the 70's. Studios might have been willing to risk films they didn't understand, but not if they might bankrupt the company. While there are others who had long antagonized their employers with unprofessional working habits (Ashby), Cimino became the last straw.

Again, this is only secondary to the fact that outside of Vilmos Zsigmond's pretty pictures, there is nothing to recommend this film. I envy younger film geeks who have grown up with this film as a forgotten footnote and aren't expected to suffer through it in order to feel "cinematically culturally aware" anymore.

FYI Wells, the "original" cut that Cimino turned into UA was not 219, but 325 minutes long. Those poor souls who had to sit through 5 and 1/2 hours of this thing...

comment #11

modernknife says ...

I saw HEAVEN'S GATE on the big screen at the Castro Theater in San Francisco back in 1996. Overture and Intermission. It was stunning to behold.

In a good way.

I've always championed the film -- even after reading Steven Bach's book which only cued my interest in the film more. Sure it's got flaws -- as do dozens of good and great films -- but there is just that "X" factor of seeing a moment in time recreated so realistically. The mood. The atmosphere. The dust!

For any fan of cinematography or pure filmmaking -- a beautiful 3 1/2 hour treat. Every shot of every camera set-up is just about perfectly composed. I really love anamorphic widescreen photography -- and this is almost an orgy. Vilmos Zsigmond's work on the film is worth the ticket price alone.

The waltz at graduation? Wow!

But hey, I'm also a big fan of BARRY LYNDON -- which the Castro has also played several times.

Also...I remember reading somewhere that Jeff Bridges is actually playing one of his own ancestors (named Bridges in the film) who actually did own a store in Johnson County (or whereabouts). If true, kinda cool in a subtle way.

David Mansfield's score is also quite beautiful.

comment #12

York "Budd" Durden says ...

I think it's reasonable to call the version that screened for critics to be the "original cut" since no one outside of UA (presumably) ever saw the 325 min version. Perhaps that was more of an assembly than an actual cut, rough or otherwise?

comment #13

York "Budd" Durden says ...

Oops, hit "post" a bit too soon--also meant to say that I'd like to see Criterion take a shot at this picture. Whatever its merits, it is a sort of cultural touchstone (for film geeks, anyway) that probably deserves a better transfer than the current MGM DVD, commentaries, etc.

comment #14

MickTravis says ...

Cimino's best movie is actually "Thunderbolt and Lightfoot."

What happened to the kid who made that?

It's smart, fast, funny; it contains wonderful moments, an inspired performance by Jeff Bridges and it occasionally breaks to show off some beautiful scenery. And, at under 2 hours, it's probably Cimino's shortest film. I'd look up the running time for "Desperate Hours" just to check but I don't want to get anywhere near that piece of shit again.

comment #15

Jeffrey Kunze says ...

There was an interesting article in the January edition of Total Film about Cimino's Heaven's Gate and how it destroyed the autonomy given to directors by studios during the 70s. I guess it was bound to happen. Oh well.

The article showed some recent, very feminine photos of Cimino and mentioned there is a good chance that he had sexual reassignment surgery.

Wow...

The lasting effects of Heaven's Gate...

comment #16

Richardson says ...

"I'd look up the running time for "Desperate Hours" just to check but I don't want to get anywhere near that piece of shit again."

I thought it was just over two hours, but apparently it's 1:45. It just feels longer. What a terrible, terrible movie.

I can see how it's an interesting idea in theory -- take a filmmaker who shoots amazing exterior footage and give him a movie where he's locked in a house for an hour and a half. It's even worse than that makes it sound.

comment #17

Aunt Sassy says ...

I attended a screening of this version at LACMA four or five years ago. I can't remember who the moderator was, but the evening itself was certainly one for the books.

The Q&A afterwords was exhilarating and raucous. People yelled at each other over the ending. Animal rights activists were outraged at the trip wires used on the horses. You felt as though a fistfight could happen at any moment. It was so exciting to see an audience break out of their passive-viewer mode.

Later, I met this handsome redhead near the front entrance as the guards were locking up the gates. We started to talk about what we had just seen. An hour went by and we were still talking; two strangers standing in the fog on Wilshire Boulevard. I ran into him this year at a screening of THE DEVILS at the Egyptian. I didn't have a cell phone, so we exchanged numbers on pieces of paper. Later, when I tried to call him, I discovered to my sorrow that we had given each other our own numbers. My great love had been thwarted again. I hope our paths will cross again some day. I wonder what movie will be playing?
BUT...I digress.

HEAVEN'S GATE has the potential to be a masterpiece. It has all the ingredients: the performances, the thematic elements, the visuals, etc. The film just needs a good editor to shape the material into something less unwieldy. The main stumbling block would be the sound. Most of the dialogue in the 219 min. version sounds like raw production audio. My guess is, that United Artists took the film away from Cimino before most of the ADR had been completed. Consequently, if a new cut were to be assembled, the original actors would have to rerecord their dialogue, and I doubt any studio is going to put up the money for that. Even if they did, there is the issue of people's voices changing over time and not matching their original performance (listen to some of Alec Guinness' dialogue in the restored LAWRENCE OF ARABIA).

Lastly, I completely agreen with btwnproductions. If you enjoyed JESSE JAMES, you should give HEAVEN'S GATE a try. Both a are leisurely, meandering and self-indulgent films. Should you be able to adapt to their peculiar and unique rhythms, they are also very rewarding ones, as well.

comment #18

JohnCope says ...

Heaven's Gate is a great film and flawed in only the eways great films can be: by over-reaching; an excess of unwieldy ambition. Still, it's far more than the power of the images. The images enhance Cimino's more abstract political purposes. The real agenda of the film is to chart the Kristofferson character's descent from idealism to social capitulation. Cimino wants to investigate whether men of privilege can ever actually have a legitimate impact on a different social class. The opening scenes at Harvard set this up and they are amongst my favorite of any film as they seem almost incidental in comparison to the rest until you realize that they tell us all we need to know about what we will see (i.e. the echo of the outdoor dance scene and the cavalry assault at the end, John Hurt's telling, smug pseudo-intellectual rebuff of Joseph Cotton at the commencement exercise, the way Cotton represents the original foundation of Harvard's "mission", etc.) At the very least HG is one of the very few American films to level a sustained, complex critique (that turns into almost a passionate screed by the end) in opposition to the heroic icons of the American West and the continued xenophobic reaction to immigrants. I liked Desperate Hours but I can't remember why exactly. That was also around the time Mickey Rourke flared out, but he was quite essential to that film's success.

Still, The Sicilian is probably Cimino's masterpiece to date. I just wish he could get his project about Pizarro off the ground.

comment #19

Edward says ...

Sassy, I hope you and your red head's paths meet. Great story, thanks for sharing.

comment #20

Joe Leydon says ...

I wish someone would issue the great Final Cut documentary on DVD.

comment #21

Terry McCarty says ...

York "Budd" Durden wrote:
Oops, hit "post" a bit too soon--also meant to say that I'd like to see Criterion take a shot at this picture. Whatever its merits, it is a sort of cultural touchstone (for film geeks, anyway) that probably deserves a better transfer than the current MGM DVD, commentaries, etc.

If Criterion did take on HEAVEN'S GATE, I'd like to see the package contain the long version, the short version that was briefly issued in the spring of 1981, the making-of documentary that appeared on cable years ago, plus commentaries and interviews.

comment #22

Richardson says ...

"I wish someone would issue the great Final Cut documentary on DVD."

I think it's caught in a sort of limbo. It's not good enough to be a stand alone movie, like 'Hearts of Darkness'. (it also looks to cheap to stand alone.) If the movie were more popular, it might be able to make it as a stand-alone. But it's basically a really, really good DVD extra.

Problem being, the movie is long enough that you can't throw on a long doc without major compression issues, and I doubt they want to make it a two- or three-disc set.

Hopefully, a Blu-Ray release will be able to spare some bits for the doc. it was pretty good, though nothing not covered in the book.

comment #23

LexG says ...

HEAVEN'S GATE is a MASTERPIECE.

I'm a huge Cimino fan... even (sort of) like the very strange and inert Desperate Hours.

Don't forget about the somewhat underrated The Sicilian. At least in its longer cut, that's another unfairly savaged curio for buffs.

FYI, the long existing DVD of Heaven's Gate (R1) is missing the burnt-in translations of all the immigrants' dialogue; Of course I bought it way back in the day and that may no longer be the case, but I doubt they ever corrected that on a relaitvely niche title.

THE GATES OWNS YOU.

comment #24

Jeffrey Kunze says ...

Cimino is now a transvestite.

comment #25

LexG says ...

Isn't the transvestite thing a ten-year-old rumor?

comment #26

Jeffrey Kunze says ...

Takes one to know one Jeff K.

comment #27

Mgmax says ...

I think the muddy sound mix is intentional.

Go watch the 1931 Cimarron, with its similar picture of an industrial-western boom town, which has one of those early sound era mixes where the effects are too loud (clomp clomp on the wooden sidewalks). It sounds a LOT like Heaven's Gate.

As it happens, I tried reediting Heaven's Gate. No, really. A friend was learning editing on her TV station's new computerized system in the mid-80s and we tried recutting Heaven's Gate to make sense out of it (and also to do some Napoleon-style rapid cutting-- we had all just seen the restoration with Carmine Coppola conducting). Trust me, it's beyond salvaging without reshoots. The material that gives it dramatic force is missing. It's too coked up and incoherent.

Yet the texture is terrific, the historical detail marvelous, David Mansfield's score haunting. Well worth seeing, for the ornate ruin it is and always must be.

comment #28

Legowombat says ...

I would add that if you have the patience for THE ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES..., you might give HEAVEN'S GATE a try.

I finally watched Assassination the other night. After all the people whining about how slow it was, I was prepared for an endless slog.

Instead, what I saw was a movie of hypnotic imagery and emotional intensity, that was anything but slow or boring. I actually got the feeling the ending had been cut down and hurried through, and wished it was longer.

I'd say i couldn't believe it wasn't nominated for best picture, but I stopped considering the Academy Awards in any way relevant after 'Chicago' won a few years ago.

comment #29

JosephB says ...

Interesting, seeing as how "Heaven's Gate" is the next film in my queue (unless this post creates a mad rush on the film.. bastards!). I'm ashamed to say I've never seen it. And since I thought "The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford" was the best film of last year and one of the best in recent memory, I'm guessing "Heaven's Gate" is right up my alley.

And actionman.. I've seen "Sunchaser" and it's not much to write home about- although that was a few years ago, when I was much younger, and carried a lesser appreciation of film... so don't hold me to that.