comment #1

btwnproductions says ...

I'd say QUO VADIS, GYPSY, MISTER ROBERTS and THE FBI STORY still have their fans, even among tougher critics who somehow have to find room for him in the auteurist pantheon. And others: THE BAD SEED, LITTLE WOMEN (1949), etc.

But Spielberg is well out of his craftsman league. And Bay well under the bar. There is no studio system to support the middle ground he worked, so the question is in some way moot. A Ron Howard, Spielberg, or Bay can pursue their own interests, for better or for worse.

comment #2

BurmaShave says ...

FBI STORY is one of my least favorite movies of all time, for it's childlike acceptance of the Red Menace, and it's suffocating half-assed domestic drama. Really dreadful, worst thing Jimmy Stewart ever did.

comment #3

wakefield says ...

Right off the top I can think of two LeRoy pictures which are about as good as anything made during the so-called golden age: "I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang" and "Waterloo Bridge." The latter is just about the most effective tear-jerker I've ever seen (and a Vivien Leigh performance to match Scarlet O'Hara and Blanche DuBois) and the former is a still very potent issue movie with my favorite final scene in movie history. ("I steal...")

comment #4

BurmaShave says ...

I AM A FUGITIVE FROM A CHAIN GANG is a drop dead classic. Damn, forgot that was him.

comment #5

Undercover Brother says ...

I guess Zemekis. Best answer I can think of. Despite great success he never seemed to crawl out from under Spielberg's shadow. I really like his movies but his obsession with technology slowed him down. Beowulf was fine but Polar Express was 'poke in the eye' bad. He's getting older. He really needs to make a non-CGI movie again. Which he's not doing. He's going to go at least a decade without putting a real actor on real film. He's becoming more a technician than a director. He has a lot of huge hits but no one seems slavishly devouted to any of them. Forrest Gump may have won plenty of Oscars but you don't have to go to far to find someone who hates it, with a passion. His book isn't finished yet and he may eventually be held up as a visionary. But something tells me he's going to be cast off to the side as a guy who made successful films that couldn't quite endure. That being said "Roger Rabbit" is brilliant.

comment #6

Brian says ...

What about someone like Jon Turteltaub? He's had significant box-office success in WHILE YOU WERE SLEEPING, PHENOMENON, and the NATIONAL TREASURE films, all of which have had some support for the go-alongs but which have no chance of being remembered for much in the medium- to long-term future.

Or even better, Barry Levinson. I love WAG THE DOG and all but there's a guy with more famous movies than good ones.

comment #7

I,Claudius says ...

As Wakefield stated in a previous post, Le Roy's 1940 remake of Waterloo Bridge is a quintessential Golden Age weepie, very effective and Vivien Leigh is not only ethereally beautiful, but turns in an excellent performance. It's also has a huge cult following in China, of all places, where it is considered one of the all time great films.

comment #8

MovieBob says ...

Dude, with respect... I've been working (to one degree or another) in film retail for the better part of nine years now, and people are ALWAYS looking for Mister Roberts. It's an extremely well-remembered, well-regarded film.

Here's the thing, man: You're basically right that the arts need critics outside the mainstream. Thing is, we've GOT those - it just ain't you, and it ain't 99% of the critical press right now. The second (third?) coming of Truffaut and Goddard ARE out there, doing their thing on Film Geek "gossip"-sites (i.e. the second-coming of Caheirs, for better or for worse.) Remember leading the charge against LOTR, bra? Yeah, that was you and what-will-be-remembered-as-a-suprisingly-large-number of others playing the role of the first critic who looked at a Picasso and said "pssh! the eyes don't even line up!" ;)

comment #9

Richardson says ...

There are several people Jeff has bragged about chatting with or being friendly with that I would consider far closer to latter-day Mervyn Douglases than Steven Spielberg.

But I was surprised Wells showed restraint and didn't list Jackson on his list, but now Bob brought it up.

comment #10

PerfectTommy says ...

Something tells me that when the American Film Institute does its Ten Best of Ten Genres in a couple of weeks, Speilberg's name will come up more than once. There has been plenty of time for critical and popular reassessment and "Jaws" and "Raiders" among others have stood the test of time. I know Welles is just throwing it out as bait, but that doesn't make the comparison any less silly.

comment #11

Walter Sobchak says ...

He made "Three On A Match" so he's a-okay with me. Know what I'm saying?

And don't none of you mugs get wise, see?

comment #12

CinemaPhreek says ...

You need to drop MISTER ROBERTS from that list if you want your point to be valid. Among critics it is still respected and among general public it still has fans.

The most obvious answer for modern day LeRoy is Brett Ratner. As far as those whose careers go back a few more decades, how about Joel Schmuchmacher?

comment #13

PerfectTommy says ...

MovieBob, I agree that the popularity of "Mister Roberts" endures, but how much credit goes to LeRoy and how much to a cast with Fonda, Cagney, Lemmon and Powell, let alone shared directors John Ford and Josh Logan?
That said, I do think Wells is too tough on LeRoy. "Little Ceasar" and "Gold Diggers of 1933" are a couple of his other worthy efforts. And IMDB says he worked on "Wizard of Oz" which holds up pretty well, I think.
I get a kind of MiraJeff vibe with this post, "Why bother with these old films when none of the cool kids watch them anymore?"

comment #14

Wrecktum says ...

Yeah, Mister Roberts is hardly a LeRoy film. There are many hands in that glorious pot.

I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang was already mentioned (the final shot of Muni still haunts me after all these years), but what about the archtype pre-code Warners crime opus: Little Caesar?

Give some praise to the great Mervyn LeRoy.

comment #15

bryce_david says ...

Aside from the typical poky religious elements, QUO VADIS is one of the grandest films ever made. It alone started or reignited the whole Biblical/Sword & Sandal/Peplum trend that lasted 15 years after it was made. Visually, QUO VADIS is stunning. I don't think there's ever been such an eye filling epic, even greater than BEN-HUR. The amount of details you see in that 4:3 screen beats any CGI visuals made today. The burning of Rome is unforgettable and Peter Ustinov was brilliant in his role. And Taylor & Kerr are gorgeous together. What's not to like?

comment #16

Dellos says ...

Noel Coward once asked Mervyn LeRoy if he could kiss him on lips. So I guess he like his films

comment #17

PerfectTommy says ...

To quote the great Anton Ego, “But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.”

comment #18

D.Z. says ...

Looks like Stevie's still leaving the nest. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3id8bab6c55c504103515b6eaf24c75ea8
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3id8bab6c55c504103b90c088c8e5425bc

comment #19

Rich S. says ...

I was going to post a critique of Wells' thesis, but upon reflection, I think he's right to a certain extent, at least about the championing of old films by some critics. Ebert's Great Movies series has done a lot to open up the cinematic past to today's audiences. Roger's dead-on about his latest choice, My Man Godfrey. I actually found that one on my own, but only after I started tracking down every film William Powell ever made after Ebert raved about The Thin Man series.

That said, I don't think LeRoy really qualifies. He was a worst a talented journeyman and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

comment #20

erniesouchak says ...

Richard Donner, Gary Ross and Curtis Hanson come to mind. Brett Ratner can only wish he were in a similar league.

comment #21

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

"Forrest Gump may have won plenty of Oscars but you don't have to go to far to find someone who hates it, with a passion."

Me! Me! Over here!

"QUO VADIS is one of the grandest films ever made. It alone started or reignited the whole Biblical/Sword & Sandal/Peplum trend that lasted 15 years after it was made. "

Well, I wouldn't say alone. DeMille's Samson and Delilah (which is oddly small-looking now, next to Ten Commandments) was also a huge, huge hit. But Quo Vadis is an underrated movie, an easier sit than Ben-Hur, I think, and far better than The Robe and some of those others.

I remember digging through old Varietys from during WWII and the studios had it all planned out-- as soon as the war was over and the European market was healthy again, they were ready to remake Quo Vadis, Ben-Hur, a lot of those silent-era epic hits. And sure enough they did, and they all made truckloads of money (and cost it too, but mostly they paid off). In a lot of ways we probably owe film noir to costcutting measures of the wartime era, because they sure had their hearts set on spending $10 million on lavish color Biblical epics.

Back to LeRoy-- let's not forget that he produced The Wizard of Oz! Let's also not forget that when MGM dispatched Victor Fleming to help save their investment in Gone With the Wind, LeRoy knew better than to take over directing the Kansas scenes himself, and recruited King Vidor, who knew how to find the emotional heart of those scenes, on which all the fantasy depends. So LeRoy seems to have been a very smart producer... smart enough to know his own limitations as a director.

comment #22

Spacesheik says ...

LeRoy's THE BAD SEED is also a findly remembered classic, and MR ROBERTS of course is a bona fide classic comedy of the 50s.

Don't underestimate him, he could do all genres, from comedy to drama to romance to action to war (he was uncredited on THE GREEN BERETS, I found his involvement in that puzzling)

comment #23

moviemaniac2002 says ...

The Bad Seed - pure Leroy genius.
He hired mostly veterans of the stage play and
let them shout their lines at each other as if they
were playing for a Wednesday matinee filled with hard-of-hearing theater party ladies.
And then the crazy multiple endings!
(dreaded old-timey SPOILERS)
Rhoda hit by lightning!
The cast comes out to take its bows! (See,
you really WERE at a Wednesday matinee)
Nancy Kelly spanks Patty McCormick!

The only thing missing was Jack Warner and
Leroy coming out and crying to the audience
"Please...we were just f***ing kidding! Kids
wouldn't really kill people...honest!"

comment #24

p.Vice says ...

Burma, we actually agree on something! FBI Story is indeed one of the worst movies I've seen as well... just completely clueless.

And Wells, once again your comparison points are ridiculous and demonstrate that your understanding of film language is rudimentary at best... Spielberg and Bay have such singularly defined aesthetics that you can't compare them to someone like LeRoy. Howard is an easy one... but you might have included James Mangold and Paul Haggis as well.

comment #25

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

Oh, and everybody who found The FBI Story lame and wished it had been better should go see Call Northside 777, which is.

comment #26

Edward says ...

When I was 12 The FBI Story was one of the greatest movies I ever saw. But so was the Praying Mantis. What the hell did I know.

comment #27

Undercover Brother says ...

Richard Donner - Already well on his way to being forgotten. Superman may wind up being the only film he made to survive.

Gary Ross - Hasn't he only made 2 films in the last 10 years anyway?

Curtis Hanson - He may be fading into obscurity as we speak, but LA Confidential is and forever will be a masterwork.

comment #28

Fien Print says ...

I'd put Mervyn LeRoy very much in a class with a Henry Hathaway, in terms of directors from the Studio Age whose names you *never* hear mentioned among the "Great Ones," but who still accumulated a slew of great or near-great movies.

Hathaway's got "The Lives of a Bengal Lancer," "Kiss of Death," "Call Northside 777" and "True Grit" on his resume.

Somebody like a George Seaton might also be in that category.

LeRoy and Hathaway picked up exactly one Oscar nomination apiece, while Seaton seems to have one a pair of Oscars.

But I think that might be a good cut-off line to the question of who the contemporary equivalents are. I think Ron Howard may be too decorated and successful in his own time to make the cut. Spielberg is obviously too decorated and successful, but Wells was makin' his little joke there.

Hanson's probably a good pick. He's got one or two real classics, two or three very good movies and then some other stuff. James Mangold would be there if he made a few more movies.

Maybe an Ed Zwick? A Garry Marshall? A Taylor Hackford? A Mark Waters?

Marc Forester is too early in his career, but he may be on his way. Peter Berg also seems to have a decent chance to be one of those guys capable of doing solid movies across all genres without actual greatness?

comment #29

johnc says ...

LeRoy was a hack who often had the fortune to work with good actors. His best movies are early 1930s Warners jobs like Five Star Final, Three on a Match, and especially I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang. His work at MGM with the dreaded Greer Garson is really insufferable, and most of his 1950s-60s credits are overblown and lumbering. He should have been the last director anyone let near the film version of Gypsy, for example.

comment #30

TheJeff says ...

All of these point have been made, but they're all worth making again

1. I AM A FUGITIVE FROM A CHAIN GANG is a flat out masterpiece. LeRoy deserves some acclaim for that alone.

2. The "LeRoys" of today (craftsmen for hire who can be counted on to competently helm a middlebrow audience-pleaser with little-to-no personal vision.) are Taylor Hackford, James Mangold, Garry Marshall, Nancy Meyers, Tom Shadyac, Chris Columbus, et. al.

3. Spielberg has no place on such a list. The notion that he will be "forgotton" like LeRoy is ridiculous:

- He is the most recognizable director to the American public outside of Hitchcock.

- He directed nine of the top 100 highest grossing films of all time. Most of which were sold based on his name alone. Nobody in the '40s said "Hey! Do you want to go see the new LeRoy picture?"

- He is loved by his fellow directors. He has been nominated for the DGA award ten times, and took home their lifetime achievement honor.

- His films receive far more critical acclaim than they do scorn.

- Whether you like or agree with his themes or personal vision or not, they are certainly there. Spielberg is the very definition of the word "auteur." Even a casual film buff could pick out his films without ever seeing his credit.

I can't believe I've been reduced to "Spielberg Apologist," but there it is. We know that he slighted you somehow, Wells. He hurt your feelings, won't return your calls, whatever. This silly campaign of yours is bordering on the absurd now though. It's fine to say, "I don't like Spielberg movies. Most of them don't work for me, etc." To suggest, however, that at some point in the future that Spielberg, like LeRoy, will be in a situation where "no one today even speaks of these films, much less admiringly," is just plain stupid.

comment #31

johnc says ...

Oh, and I think Ron Howard might be an apt comparison. Spielberg is way off the beam, because you can always recognize a Spielberg film and LeRoy had no definable style from movie to movie. As for Michael Bay, I don't think has the brains to attempt even the semi-literate stuff LeRoy produced.

I find "Mister Roberts" to be a pretty leaden movie, certainly nothing to speak of from a cinematic point of view. If people remember it fondly, it has absolutely nothing to do with Mervyn LeRoy and everything to do with the cast and original material.

comment #32

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

Spielberg is Capra, if we must.

comment #33

dixiedugan says ...

I think with someone who directed films as long as LeRoy did we must take in the fact that this was a studio system, and hardly the way Spielberg or Bay operate today.

Five Star Final, Tugboat Annie, Hard To Handle...maybe not seen so much but all great films. If he was doing a shit job and shit box office the studios would have cut him loose and he would have ended up on Poverty Row flicks...though admittedly some of those are really fun.

Comparisons are fine, but the director and his work should be able to stand alone.

comment #34

dixiedugan says ...

Now that I reflect further, if you want comparisons I'm sure Spielberg thinks he's Wellman, but is really DeMillle.

comment #35

vp19 says ...

LeRoy had an intriguing career, but it seems to me his artistic peak came during the Warners pre-Code era, when the studio had a definite style -- and he contributed to it. "Little Caesar," "Gold Diggers Of 1933" and "I Am A Fugitive From A Chain Gang" are unquestioned classics, and "Five-Star Final" and "Hard To Handle" (the latter a splendid Cagney comedy in which he sends up his tough-guy image) are nearly as good and deserve more exposure. If he had an equivalent at another studio in terms of versatility, it might be Jack Conway at MGM (although his style was nowhere as distinctive). And let's not forget LeRoy's moving Frank Sinatra short, "The House I Live In," made when Sinatra was a crusading liberal fighting for racial and ethnic tolerance.

That said, LeRoy had some misfires. "Fools For Scandal" was made when Carole Lombard was the hottest female comedic star in the industry, and it bombed so badly that Carole went into dramatic roles for a year or two. (To be fair to LeRoy, it might not have been his fault; Warners never had a genuine feel for the screwball genre.) "Without Reservations," a scary signpost for postwar comedy, never takes off, either, but it may be more the fault of pairing Claubette Colbert with John Wayne -- there's simply no chemistry between them -- than anything LeRoy did...although at least in this film, unlike "The Green Berets," the sun still sets in the west.