comment #1

Richardson says ...

Also, Hillary Clinton was the hands down favorite to win the Democratic nomination for the presidency.... before the playing field had been fully established (or even at all).

comment #2

Rich S. says ...

Some guy named David Germain with the AP has posted similar comments on Yahoo! entertainment news. It is heartening to see that WB thinks enough of the film to be showing it this far in advance.

As to the Oscar, there was similar buzz around Nicholson's performance, so let's not start sucking each other's [Popsicles] quite yet.

comment #3

giantman says ...

Rich stole my thunder, but I agree. This is hot right now but it is just June/July and a lot has yet to happen and it IS a super-hero movie... not exactly the bastion of respect in the industry.

Still, it would be cool if it happened for the right reasons. Reserving judgement until I can see this thing for myself.

Next week I think, WB just sent me an invitation. I think the sanitation worker at the office got one as well.

comment #4

Sean M says ...

Re: Rich S. I am sure it is another string for another time but,

"so let's not start sucking each other's [Popsicles] quite yet"

may very well be the greatest TV ADR-replacement ever.

comment #5

joncro says ...

"You see what happens when you find a stranger in the alps?"

comment #6

Rich S. says ...

I'll give credit where credit is due. Bill Simmons at ESPN uses that euphemism for the line from Reservoir Dogs all the time.

comment #7

Rich S. says ...

I'll give credit where credit is due. Bill Simmons at ESPN uses that euphemism for the line from Pulp Fiction all the time.

comment #8

Rich S. says ...

Sorry, didn't catch it in time.

comment #9

hollyman says ...

I was the screening as well last night. The only way to see Dark Knight is on the IMAX Screen.

comment #10

munson says ...

How ironic that HE's two resident Dark Knight buzz-killers are the first two to post on this thread. May I say that you are positively fanboyish in your [un]excitement for this movie?

Also, Rich S., thank you for trying to save us from actually [gasp] being excited for a summer movie. That was a close one. I owe you my life, man.

You're as inflexible about the Dark Knight as you accuse us of being, the only difference is your point of view.

comment #11

iamjoe says ...

I'll say it again: I saw him on set, and he was transformed in his performance...one momennt her was Heath, then his entire being changed. His acting is as complete here as he did in Brokeback Mountain. He deserve an Oscar for this, whether is his with us or not.

comment #12

Fien Print says ...

Heck... I'll chime in with general agreement. Ledger is, indeed, spectacular. The most fascinating thing about the performance is that on one hand, it's absolutely a calculated and calibrated actor's performance. The voice, the licking of the lips, the slouch of the shoulder. These are all pieces of mania that presumably were prepped long in advance and that remain consistent throughout. But with every line reading you get the sense of spontaneity, as if he probably gave Nolan 10 or 15 different variations on each line and the director never knew what was coming at any point. And that's a perfect combination for a character who's simultaneously rational and irrational. The performance is both id and ego.

Don't get me wrong. I loved Jack Nicholson's Joker back when I was young, but that was almost all wackiness for the purpose of comedy. It played well, but without very much menace, largely because of how suave and smooth Nicholson made the character. Ledger's Joker is all rough edges and rudely serrated flesh. And that makes him a great foil for Christian Bale.

And the character's best scenes haven't been spoiled in the trailers yet.

Is that more colorful description, Jeff?

Oh and I agree with hollyman -- This one's GOTTA be seen on the IMAX screen. Just as Ledger is Oscar-worthy, so is Wally Pfister's cinematography...

comment #13

iamjoe says ...

I'll say it again: I saw him on set, and he was transformed in his performance...one moment he was Heath, then the entire fabric of his being changed when the cameras rolled. His acting is as complete here as he what did in Brokeback Mountain. He deserve an Oscar for this, whether he is his with us or not.

comment #14

Richardson says ...

"How ironic that HE's two resident Dark Knight buzz-killers are the first two to post on this thread. May I say that you are positively fanboyish in your [un]excitement for this movie?"

Yeah, you're right, of *course* he's going to win. Of course it's not COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS OVER-HYPED INTERNET NONSENSE to suggest that he's the front-runner in a contest which has, to date, nobody else in the running. Of course it's not in anyway comprable to the way that the media decided two years ago that Hillary Clinton was the shoo-in front-runner for a contest that hadn't started yet.

Thanks for setting me straight.

comment #15

Redmond says ...

Why isn't this movie opening July 4th weekend? That's what I don't understand. Warner is obviously proud of the film, it has a performance in it that people want to see (in some cases for the wrong reason), but nevertheless, why don't launch this thing over the 3-4 day weekend? It would DOMINATE.

I'm afraid I've fallen into the trap of being ridiculously excited for this film. I enjoyed Hulk and Iron Man as mindless entertainment, but I know Dark Knight is going to deliver the real goods.

comment #16

Richardson says ...

Also, Rich, notice how i'm now a buzzkill based solely on the fact that I said, in a previous thread, that Nolan's take on the Batman/villain relationship is not particularly original and certainly has not "never been done before".

I didn't even realize I *was* negative on the movie until people told me so. Apparently, if you don't blindly accept that everything Nolan does is brilliant and perfect, you're a buzzkill.

comment #17

corey3rd says ...

he's a lock if we're talking Best Supporting Oscar.

comment #18

Rich S. says ...

Richardson,

I warned you.

comment #19

Richardson says ...

I'm from New York. Even though I don't like baseball much anymore, I'm used to having -- or at least overhearing -- conversations about sports. So let me just say that listening to people talk about Ledger's guaranteed Oscar reminds me of talking to a Mets fan in April, and that's my final word on the subject.

comment #20

Richardson says ...

Rich S. - I hope you're as amused by it as me. "Maybe Andy Serkis won't be nominated for an Oscar for Gollum." "ARE YOU KIDDING???? HE'S GOING TO WIN!!!!!"

comment #21

scooterzz says ...

my two cents: i enjoyed this movie as much as anything i've seen all year and ledger's performance is, hands down, the most impressive piece of work on screen so far this year....
agree with hollyman that it really should be seen in imax and with fein's perfect analysis of ledger's joker.....

comment #22

Rich S. says ...

HAYDEN CHRISTENSEN WILL OWN YOUR ASS!

comment #23

Joshua Mooney says ...

If I remember KTLA's Sam Rubin correctly from my time in L.A., then "perfect" and "right" are about par for the course. I remain excited about this movie, somewhat to my surprise, and despite what the Stone's Pat Travers and KTLA's Sam Rubin have written.

comment #24

Richardson says ...

scooterzz - I want to be clear; I am not knocking Ledger, nor his performance, in any way. I haven't seen the movie, so I can't have an opinion about the performance. I am willing to accept (and hope to agree with) the sentiment that it will be the best performance of the year and, on merits alone, could genuinely deserve to win the Oscar.

But I'm mocking the sentiment which seems prevalent, that it's not enough to have a movie which you're excited for, not enough to have a movie you have already decided will be great, but to need the sort of validation that an Oscar represents, as if it's some "objective" form of measuring quality, and the approval of the Academy means anything as far as the movie goes.

I can tell you right now, he has a LOT to overcome in order to get an Oscar nomination for this type of movie, no matter how good he is, and he won't be there to push hard in an Oscar campaign. It seems like people aren't satisfied enough to enjoy a movie anymore, it has to be the best thing ever, and if you don't agree that it's the best thing ever (preferably before you've even seen it), then you're a hata.

comment #25

T. S. Idiot says ...

Actually describing performances in meaningful terms is too difficult for most movie reviewers.

comment #26

giantman says ...

Richardson - honestly i think that is the smartest thing i've read in one of these threads for a very long time and i couldn't agree more.

no one would like to see an actor in a great super-hero movie win an oscar more than me, but to be giving awards out this early in the year just seems... superfluous.

comment #27

theultimatebiu says ...

TDK better be one of the best movie's ever made as the hype is gone beyond breaking point. I really do hope it lives up to expectations.

comment #28

CinemaPhreek says ...

I shudder to think that this will probably come true, that after getting his best reviews and being taken seriously as an actor for an ability to portray characters in a raw yet understated way (MONSTER'S BALL, BROKEBACK, I'M NOT THERE) he will end up being rewarded for a role like this. In other words, another Scorsese for THE DEPARTED, "Damn, sorry we missed the better role," award.

And I say this as someone on record for awaiting DARK KNIGHT as the top choice for the summer.

comment #29

adorian says ...

Last year at this time, weren't people saying that Julie Christie and Marion Cotillard were the frontrunners to win Best Actress? And didn't that hold true throughout the remainder of the awards season?

comment #30

scooterzz says ...

richardson -- i think you misunderstood me... nowhere in my post did i suggest that ledger would be nominated (or win) an oscar.... i'm fully aware of the uphill battle THAT'S going to be.....
i simply stated my opinion that it was 'the most impressive work i've seen all year' (because, well....it was)...
also, i didn't walk into the film particularly 'excited' nor had i 'already decided it would be great'.......
so i'm not sure why your little lecture was directed at me.....

comment #31

Richardson says ...

In June of last year, the buzz was "Oh, that Coen brothers movie sounds pretty good, but of course it won't win any Oscars because it's the Coen brothers and 'The Departed' won last year" and "I wonder if that new PTA movie nobody knows anything about will be any good" and "David Fincher is a shoo-in to be nominated for Best Director" and "WHO-no?" and "Watch out for that Paul Haggis movie to get a lot of nominations."

Similar buzz -- "Gangs of New York" was the presumptive best director winner (if not picture and actor) in June... until people saw it. Nobody had heard of "Million Dollar Baby" in June. In June, before "The Departed" came out, the only person who had less buzz than Mark Wahlberg was Martin Sheen.

I don't remember Best Actress, and definitely don't remember anybody saying "Julie Christie will win hands down" (I actually remember the buzz being "Marion Cotillard will be the small performance that deserves to win but has no shot at winning") but you have to admit that Best Actress is generally a far less competitive category than Best Supporting Actor. And that the vast majority of nominated performances for all categories come from movies released in September or later.

comment #32

Richardson says ...

scooter -- sorry, it wasn't "directed" at you. I saw your post and thought I was coming off as negative towards Ledger. Your post prompted the first paragraph, which then led into the other thoughts which weren't particularly a response to you.

comment #33

scooterzz says ...

no prob...i was just a bit mystified....

comment #34

p.Vice says ...

This kind of nonsense talk is only popping up because 1) Ledger's dead, and 2) there hasn't been a film released yet this year with any kind of award worthiness for the Oscar buzz leeches to pontificate about.

When you've got some actual Academy voters on record talking about how much they love his performance, let me know.

comment #35

Rich S. says ...

I've actually thought since the day he died that Ledger was a mortal lock for, at the very least, a nomination for supporting actor. It had little to do with his performance, however. Ledger was a respected young actor that had produced a couple of excellent performances and was rumored to have given another one in a big tentpole film. His death made Heath like catnip to the Academy.

If he's as good as advertised, I think an Oscar win is likely. Remember, supporting actor is where the Academy likes to reward "riskier" performances in "Non-Academy-Type" films. Martin Landau in Ed Wood and Kevin Kline in A Fish Called Wanda spring to mind. Unless something unforeseen comes down the pike this fall, I think it's Heath's to lose.

comment #36

jockgroove says ...

Me thinks those who complain and ridicule are a bit jealous they haven't gotten to see it yet...

...Rubin's enthusiasm got the best of him, no doubt, but Ledger's got a LEGITIMATE and pretty strong chance of getting nominated for best supporting actor. It's a startling performance that lives up to the hype. Guarantee he'll win it? Way, way, way too early for that.

Unlike the Wall E "real" best picture talk, which is somewhat ludicrous...

comment #37

Richardson says ...

"Me thinks those who complain and ridicule are a bit jealous they haven't gotten to see it yet"

Don't worry, I anticipate I'll be making fun of the sentiment for months to come, well after I see it. Talking seriously about Oscar nominations in June is inherently ridiculous.

"Unless something unforeseen comes down the pike this fall, I think it's Heath's to lose."

That's a reasonable statement. The thing is, something unforeseen *always* comes down the line and, usually, if something is getting Oscar-hype in July, people have gotten sick of the hype by the time the actual nominations come around. They usually just remember the five most recent best supporting performances (scanning the list of the past decade quickly, I only see two performances earlier than August, Jude Law and Paul Giamatti).

comment #38

jockgroove says ...

Oscar trends are not as scientific as many would like them to be Richardson. Why don't you keep an open mind until you see the movie (heaven forbid).

Then rip everyone apart...

comment #39

Richardson says ...

"Oscar trends are not as scientific as many would like them to be Richardson."

I always hear that from people who go on to lose their Oscar pools. the fact is, the Oscars are remarkably predictable, but you have to ignore precisely this kind of hype.

"Why don't you keep an open mind until you see the movie (heaven forbid)."

Because I'm not talking about the movie itself, I'm talking about the awards. Awards are practically never given out based solely on merit, solely on the performance.

If you think Internet buzz is such a great indicator of Oscar merit, then surely you also agree that, right now, Robert Downey Junior is a shoo-in to be nominated for supporting actor and win Best actor, right? I mean, nobody else has put in a more acclaimed leading performance, and the Internet loves him, so he's a LOCK.

comment #40

Devin Faraci says ...

It's a good film, Ledger's great in it, but nobody except fanboys would be talking Oscar if the guy hadn't killed himself.

comment #41

Fien Print says ...

Richardson -- You're missing Matt Dillon ("Crash"), Ben Kingsley ("Sexy Beast"), Albert Finney ("Erin Brockovich"), Joaquin Phoenix ("Gladiator"). I'd also include Jaime Foxx for "Collateral," which was an August release, but was still essentially a summer action movie.

Now, of course, Dillon, Finney and Phoenix were all able to ride on the coattails of films that received copious Oscar nominations, while Foxx was able to ride on his own coattails from "Ray."

Still, I only looked at best supporting actor Oscar nominees from films released in 2000 and afterwards. But including your two, that's six or seven examples in the past seven or eight years, which means that nearly every year it happens at least once.

Just going with the statistical probability that, like most years, at least one supporting actor nomination will come from a film released before August, who is it gonna be if it *isn't* Heath Ledger?

comment #42

Richardson says ...

You're right, I forgot about Dillon. I didn't go back to the beginning of the decade, so it wasn't that I "forgot" Finney, et al, I just didn't go back that far. And I would disagree that 'Collateral' is a summer action movie -- that had a big Oscar push, but then it had such a middling response that it was hung out to dry. (Deservedly, in my opinion, but I don't want to bring out the hate from the Mannites.)

"who is it gonna be if it *isn't* Heath Ledger?"

I think you're missing the part where I said that trying to have a serious conversation about potential Oscar nominations in June is inherently ridiculous.

But, speaking strictly hypothetically, since you asked, I think that, if 'Tropic Thunder' hits, Downey has a very strong shot at a nomination, because Hollywood loves a comeback (and because I anticipate that it will lighten up this year after the buzz last year was "All these movies are so dour!"). I would love to see a push for Russell Brand, who carried 'Sarah Marshall' over the middle, where Apatow movies usually sag the worst, but I know it has zero shot, that it's just my personal bias. I'm quite sure there will be a push from Sony Picture Classics to get Ben Kingsley nominated for "The Wackness". And I think Colin Farrell, whom I generally hate, could easily deserve a nomination at the end of the year for 'Cassandra's Dream'.

comment #43

Fien Print says ...

Richardson -- I don't disagree with you at all that it's too early to get into the Oscar speculating business in late June. So I'm not gonna say, "Ledger's a Lock!" or "If Ledger Doesn't Win, I'll Chop Off My Toe."

All I'd say is, "When it becomes reasonable to debate such things and there are enough performances out there to properly weigh one against another, having seen 'The Dark Knight,' I believe that Ledger will deserve to be a part of that discussion." And in that sense I disagree with Devin that if he hadn't died, nobody would be talking Oscar for Ledger. It wasn't ridiculous to talk Oscar for Nicholson, who got a Golden Globe nomination for playing The Joker.

The performance is good enough that tragedy or no tragedy, it would earn high praise. I can leave it at that. No additional hyperbole needed.

comment #44

Richardson says ...

Yeah, I'm with you there. I mean, I haven't seen it, but I don't even dispute that it's Oscar-worthy, or might get nominated.

I really don't think he'll win, but I probably would've said the same thing in June of '91 about Jack Palance.

comment #45

Filmsnob says ...

It's a good film, Ledger's great in it, but nobody except fanboys would be talking Oscar if the guy hadn't killed himself.

Actually the Oscar buzz started before he died.
Since you're a hater I'm not surprised by your negative spin. Your article comparing Ledger to Spears was LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like anyone can take you seriously after that?

comment #46

Mjs says ...

"It's a good film, Ledger's great in it, but nobody except fanboys would be talking Oscar if the guy hadn't killed himself.

I don't remember the official cause of death as suicide. Or were you just being a prick? That's what I thought.

comment #47

iamjoe says ...

Faraci: Two points to your sad uninformed post:
Both cast and crew were talking an Oscar for Ledger on the set last July/August. This is where the Oscar talk began; I was there.
Ledger's death was not a suicide.

comment #48

Richardson says ...

"Both cast and crew were talking an Oscar for Ledger on the set last July/August."

Insert 'For Your Consideration' reference right about.... here.

comment #49

Richardson says ...

"Ledger's death was not a suicide."

Also, for whatever it's worth (to both of you) "killing yourself" is not limited to suicide. "suicide" implies (if not outright means) that it was deliberate. You can "kill yourself" by accident, as Ledger apparently did. Some people would say that if you smoke, you are "killing yourself slowly", but few people would argue that it is really a form of suicide.

comment #50

Mjs says ...

"Also, for whatever it's worth (to both of you) "killing yourself" is not limited to suicide. "suicide" implies (if not outright means) that it was deliberate. You can "kill yourself" by accident, as Ledger apparently did. Some people would say that if you smoke, you are "killing yourself slowly", but few people would argue that it is really a form of suicide."

If you're dumb enough to think Faraci wasn't implying a suicide, then good luck to you. You can try and change the accepted definition all you want. Faraci's intent was clear.

Most people kill themselves. If you eat too much fast food, that can kill you. If you allow yourself to stress out too much, that can kill you.

Stupidest fucking thing I've heard in awhile.

And Richardson, stop trying to act as though your views on The Dark Knight aren't biased toward the negative. Everything you write about it is negative. Have some balls, say what you mean.