comment #1

JChasse says ...

Great idea to walk away. It'll never happen.

comment #2

Balthazar says ...

Very nice said, Wells.

But, of course, a futile argument regarding the sequel. Nolan will have to do this one more time, with cats and penguins and some such creatures.

comment #3

JChasse says ...

What annoys me is the people who praise the realism of the films, and then turn around and say "They should do Killer Croc" or "They should do Man-Bat". Why not Egghead, then, for God's sake? Or King Tut.

comment #4

Thrudvangar says ...

Jo Mo "gave" it a 60/100 at Metacritic. He rated Mamma Mia higher.

He probably didn't indulge in the Red Bull though.

comment #5

MikeLenahan says ...

That's nice and all... but what did you think of the WATCHMEN trailer?

comment #6

Howlingman says ...

Aliens begat Alien 3; Spiderman 2 - Spiderman 3; Empire to Jedi ... a fantastic sequel is rare, a third installment is rarely good. At all.

If Nolan's smart, he'll walk away from the third installment Warners will be itching for. And when they hire Brett Ratner or Rob Cohen, Chris will look more and more like a genius. But The Dark Knight and Batman Begins won't have their reps burned by one too many trips to the well ...

comment #7

Balthazar says ...

Unless Nolan gets it in his head that HE'S the guy who can break the "third movie sucks" jinx, because he's brilliant and has a master plan.

comment #8

Undercover Brother says ...

I agree with much of what Jeff says, the pros and cons of the film and all as such. I think he's pretty on the money. I think it's a film that will get a little better with a second viewing in six months or so. After it's gone away and everyone has moved onto the next thing. Right now it's all a little overbearing.

As much as I think this was a top tier production I think backlash is inevitable to some degree. I think the audience was geared for one thing and got something just a little different. The runtime, the spaghetti like plot, the open ending, are all going to irk a lot of Jane and John Doe's. I could feel it in the audience last night. You could feel everyone was held with rapt attention for about two hours. And then I noticed a few people starting to wiggle in their seats. Then there was the diligent checking of cell phones for the time. There was some clapping at the end and a lot of people clearly loved it, but as I left I distinctly heard someone on the phone say "It went on forever." I think that sentiment is going to carry over to more than a few people. There's too much to admire about the movie and I don't think it'll experience the kind of 180 that happened to "Superman Returns", but the mass adoration it's experiencing will certainly lessen.

comment #9

vulgar71 says ...

I want to see another immediately, but I am more than willingly to live a ascetic-Batman lifestyle for five (5) years or more if that's what it takes to come up with a great film. As someone pointed out above, the third in series like these always seem to be the problem child. Everyone (studios, writers, directors, etc.) gets too excited and throws everything at the screen forgetting what made the good movies good.

comment #10

EOTW says ...

Sorry fellas, the 3rd Bourne movie rocked. Period. And Wells, you're right, in a perfect world, they'd walk away and never make another one (Hello Mr. Coppola) but yeah, perfect this world ain't.

comment #11

Celebrity Werewolf Hunter says ...

I sort of agree with Wells on the point that has also been championed in several other comments. There is no way Nolan can top this film at least in the very immediate future. I would love to see him take 7-8 years off and revisit the character with Bale as hes approaching 40. Following Ledger's Joker with the Riddler too quickly could be a mistake and the obvious groundwork has been laid for Catwoman.

However then I take a step back and realize that Nolan is a brilliant man and Im quite sure he already has something planned that is outside of my imagination. I would expect another film in 2011 or 2012. Though if it wasn't clear already, there is now absolutely no way to ever merge the Nolan Batman with an eventual JLA continuity wise, superpowers would be ridiculous in this world and would destroy the wonderful tone Nolan established in these two films.

comment #12

Balthazar says ...

True, EOTW. ... That series didn't lose an ounce of momentum through the first three films.

comment #13

Nick Plowman says ...

That's an amazing post. And so spot on.

comment #14

Luke Y. Thompson says ...

"Threads are always hanging in movies. Nothing is ever resolved. My life is hanging by a thread."

I'm trying to make a "thread count" joke here, but can't quite come up with the perfect phraseology.

comment #15

mutinyco says ...

Coppola made the third Godfather for the same reason he made the first two: The money.

comment #16

Rod32303 says ...

You may have covered this in past posts, Jeff, but I don't remember - and this is a different thread than this astonishing film that fucked me up today (12:30pm showing). I haven't seen a movie that has consumed me this much since "There Will Be Blood," and even that one isn't like this.

What did you think of Burton's two films? You know, I recently rented and watched them back to back. The first one is a visual treat, but almost silly - the SECOND one is full of dread and malice - much closer to both of Nolan's. Plus, in a correct universe, it would be heaven to watch Pfeiffer in Nolan's vision. She still owns much of Batman Returns.

Just wondered what you thought.

comment #17

EOTW says ...

CWH is spot on. It would BE good to take like 10 years off and wait till Bruce Wayne could be played as older (though Sir Michael Caine might not be, um, available). That's a fascinating idea.

comment #18

Adonis says ...

"the best villain we've ever seen in a movie like this has been captured for all eternity.'

Does this mean we can start talking about Ledger for an Oscar without drawing Wells' ire?

comment #19

Richard_Stone says ...

What about Batman Vs. Superman? Supes probably doesn't fit in Nolan's realist vision, but it really seems like it could be the only ambitious fresh to path to take for Nolan and could be a pretext for some interesting ideological confrontations suggested by the end of Dark Knight. It could also catastrophically misfire.

comment #20

twicks says ...

Return of the Jedi is a good third movie. Not great, but it ties up all the threads well enough, and is still pretty satisfying.

comment #21

evil_robot_ted says ...

I thought Nolan was committed to 3 films, and had even scripted out an outline up to that point. Of course, thay may have changed with the Joker character in question now. (And it may be 30 years before anyone dares follow Ledger, if at all.)

In any case, I think if Nolan positioned the third movie with a bit of a conclusion to things, that alone could be a draw to casual moviegoers. Nobody has ever seen any sort of a finale to the Batman movies, or even comic book movies in general. I'm not saying Batman has to die, but something that at least delivers an ounce of sunlight to Gotham at the end or something. Maybe too corny though.

comment #22

Howlingman says ...

THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, Summer 2018

comment #23

giantman says ...

The thing that always kills trilogies is the idea that each one has to "top" the last one, by the time you get to the third film it has become so large and ponderous that the story gets lost under its own self-importance. I agree, it would be great if they stopped, but they won't. So, if a third film is going to happen anyway, how about doing the opposite? How about making a smaller, more intimate Batman movie? One based on emotional elements, personal conflicts and resolutions - rather than throw three villians into the mix?

comment #24

JapAdapters says ...

Good movie, but all this talk of it being a great crime movie is too much. This, like all super hero movies is too bloated and has too much exposition (way too much, in fact).

For instance (SPOILER BELOW):

At the end, just have Batman say "I'll take the rap" and run off. Have Gordan's kid say "Why is he running," Gordan says "Because we're chasing him," they release the dogs, the kid says "But why, he didn't do anything wrong?", Gordan says "Because he can take it," Batman ditches the dogs, end of movie.

Frankly, I don't need all the speeches to explain what's going on. It takes away from the movie's gritiness, and really, devalues the material.

Still, good shit overall.

comment #25

twicks says ...

Seriously. I would take a faithful adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns over a Watchmen movie any day of the week.

comment #26

Richard_Stone says ...

Yeah, if they wait 7, 8 or more years for the sequel, they'll be able to cast a new Joker who'll serve the story, and enough time will have passed so that the new actor can work freely and create something without mimicking Ledger's take. Who knows what 10 years in Arkham will do to the Joker.

comment #27

Amazing Larry says ...

Rod, just watched RETURNS last night. Agree with you that Michelle Pf. owns that flick, but I actually found myself more of a fan of the Penguin and Max Schreck stuff than I was years ago. It's the best of the original 4 far and away, mostly because Tim Burton's weirdness was fully unleashed, and he was about to make ED WOOD.


But man, the first BATMAN is really difficult to handle today. Between Kim B and her non-magnetic scene presence, the Prince songs, and Jack chewing his way thru the sets like it's his last bloody meal, I don't really care for it at all now.


Everybody, just sedda don nah. Nolan's gotta plan for #3, and it's gonna own all of your asses. He oughta do MANBAT, as long as he's riding the creepy, scary shit train on this series. Let it roll, mang!


Any word on the street yet on the "unrated" cut of DARK KNIGHT for DVD?

comment #28

Kristopher Tapley says ...

Must be getting old, Jeff.

comment #29

Dr. Smith says ...

Just returned from the 12:30 in union sq in NYC. Movie was kinda boring. WAAAY to long. Too much fucking plot. Ledger WAS electric, but everyone else was no big deal. I just sat there waiting for The Joker to come back on screen. Not a bad movie, but not so great. Rating: 5 out of 10

comment #30

Kristopher Tapley says ...

JChasse: Uh, Killer Croc could easily be worked into a realistic setting.

comment #31

Dr. Smith says ...

Also, the Growling Batman thing got annoying after a while.

comment #32

Chapman Carruthers says ...

I may be in the minority, but I was hoping the movie would go on for another half an hour or so. Not because I was enthralled by it; rather, the ending seemed to be a little bit rushed, especially considering the length of the chase, and may have benefited from having more room to breathe.

JapAdapters: I'm with you. The movie should have taken a Wall*E approach to the dialogue, and simply done less of it, especially with the stuff that was so heavy handed. More body language/physical communication would have been nice... well, aside from Ledger. He had that down to a tee.

comment #33

Chapman Carruthers says ...

Yeah, Christian Bale's gutteral growl was definitely too much. He looked and sounded like a morbidly obese kid who just had a trachiotomy.

comment #34

JChasse says ...

Kristopher Tapley: Explain how, keeping in mind that just because you can doesn't mean you should.

comment #35

Majorian99 says ...

Hey, I'm very sorry my comment doesn't have anything to do with THE DARK KNIGHT -- other than maybe quality level.

Me being from cold, old Sweden and all I must give credit were credit is due. And concur with others on this site who's lavishing praise on the the TV-show THE WIRE.

Arguably the best TV-show ever when it comes to realism, wit, character and plot. It's like THE SOPRANOS -- but better...

I started watching the whole deal from season one onwards -- chronologically as per recommendation -- and it has taken my breath away. You quality-hounds out there who's not seen this yet -- you owe this jewel of a drama to yourselves -- Wells definitely included.

To portray social criticism with such and entertaining flair is setting a new standard. I always appreciate polite but incisive criticism and the USA should all be very proud of that show -- forever.

Where is the weak point of THE WIRE? I can't see it.

All I'm saying...

comment #36

Chapman Carruthers says ...

If the first three seasons of the Wire are looked at as a trilogy (The Barksdale trilogoy), it's one series where the final installment may be the best of the lot. Perhaps because what it did (introduce Hamsterdam) was so unconventional, and would have seemed like a joke in the hands of lesser artists.

comment #37

K. Bowen says ...

Nice post, Jeff. And I generally agree.

comment #38

Majorian99 says ...

CHAPPESIAN, thanks for your comment, although I will force my expectations down, it works better to try and come in fresh with these things (and I'm still only on episode 7 in season 2).

I got a great few weeks ahead of me. A lot of wonderful thought processing and a wide grin splashed on my face.

And kudos for Kistopher Tapley, who's views on THE ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES was right on the money, in my book at least...

comment #39

Kristopher Tapley says ...

Ultimately, Chase, Croc has a simple skin disease. I'm not talking the Croc from "Hush" here, mind you (though his disintegration to that state is explained rather well in the comics), but he is a mafia figure after all. Just like Penguin. How hard is it to believe there could be this giant thug with a fucked up skin condition that makes it look scaly walking around breaking heads? I mean, we just saw Harvey Dent's fucking CHEEK BONE sticking through his face. That, to me, is more unrealistic than what might be done with Croc (or even Black Mask, for that matter).

comment #40

Craptastic says ...

A telling thing for me as to how much I loved this film was the fact that I was dead tired walking into it (the show started late at the Vista-- somewhere between 12:15-12:30) but suddenly became WIRED as I got sucked into the story and the performances.

Something that's been on my mind all day is that this movie should be used as proof that the MPAA is on the take. How the holy hell was that film PG-13? Kirby Dick should do a follow-up doc based on an investigation into their "process" on this film alone.

comment #41

Mark G. says ...

Jeff, by your logic we would have never gotten BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT if the studio had decided after BATMAN & ROBIN that they went to the well one too many times...

comment #42

Movie fan09 says ...

I'm in full agreement.
at times last night though I felt that this was a little corny..the whole "man dresses up as a bat to be taken seriously" but then my fan side kicked in and said "finally, an actual batman movie."

the only villians I could see and that would asking for much-
give the guy a break!
after that mess, it has to get better not worse.

the only two villians that would make sense-
the penguin-corporate evil in all its form.
and the riddler in a zodiac type way.
other than that I wouldn't see how they might make more realistically.

comment #43

ElstonGunnAICN says ...

"the penguin-corporate evil in all its form."

I was totally against the idea of introducing The Penguin into this universe until I saw someone suggest James Gandolfini.

comment #44

Chapman Carruthers says ...

The Catwoman storyline could be interesting. After all, some owners keep cats on hand to track down and kill creatures of the night that are plaguing their homes. It would be a nice twist if Gordon enlists the aid of Catwoman to track down Batman, and then somehow the tables turn.

comment #45

Kristopher Tapley says ...

Jeff also hasn't learned his lesson from the LAST time he decided this series should truncate its ambitions.

From his "Batman Begins" review:

"But then at the very end, after the bad guys have been wasted, Batman is told by his plainclothes detective ally, Lt. Gordon (Gary Oldman), that there's a new troublemaker on the horizon, a guy with a flair for the theatrical...

And Gordon hands Batman a business card that says "Joker" on it, and my heart sank.

Nolan has saved the Batman franchise by taking it seriously and treating every aspect and line of dialogue and character like they really and truly matter without any Joel Schumacher attitude mucking things up, and for his Big Follow-up he's going back to the old Batman vs. Joker routine?

Screw that, Chris. Create new villains, new perils...the hell with the damn comic book.

I thought this was going to be the Nolan Way when I realized the big threat to Gotham in Batman Begins is, believe it or not, mass psychedelic insanity...a gas that sends people into a state of instant hallucinatory psychological torment. This is way darker and stranger than the kind of material that Bob Kane, the original Batman comic-book guy, used in the '40s and '50s.

Well, enjoy this installment anyway. Batman Begins is the only comic-book superhero movie I've ever truly admired and enjoyed. And for a crabhead like myself, that's saying something. I know a tiny bit about the original Batman comics, and that they never smirked or screwed around or cracked wise. This movie gets that, honors that."

Good thing he didn't go out of his way to "create new villains," or you wouldn't have ole' Ledger's performance to go into your personal pantheon.

Link:

http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/2005/06/best_batman_chr.php#COLUMN2

comment #46

StoneFan1 says ...

Kristopher Tapley - Killer Croc, huh...Lets see some
sort of half-human, half-fish creature who also
happens to be a former pro wrestler! Yep, that
fits into Mr. Nolan's world perfectly.

They're going to continue this series for many
years to come, with or without Nolan, Bale, et. al.
You people might as well realize that now and
get over it. Personally, Bale could be replaced
very easily. The general public is pretty indifferent
to his Batman based on comments I've heard by
regular Joe's.

Why wasn't there a scene in "The Dark Knight"
where Bruce Wayne / Batman mourns the loss
of Rachel Dawes? Wasn't that a big mistake given
all the stuff that happened between those two
in the first film and to a lesser degree the second
one? I was shocked there wasn't a scene. The
film was over plotted in the same way more "24"
episodes are and I guess they didn't have time
for items like that. Still, I greatly enjoyed it. A- grade.

comment #47

Craptastic says ...

Elston,

I agree with you on Gandolfini! Can completely see him ruling that role and that might be th eonly thing that would get me excited for a part 3.

By the way, I think I saw you at Universal a few weeks back. You were walking with a really handsome guy through the theme park. Think you can hook me up with him?

comment #48

D.Z. says ...

"No Bat franchise super-villain is ever going to top Heath Ledger's Joker so forget it."

Gonna disagree. Eckhart stole the show as Two-Face.

"Bale is fine but on the dull side."

The problem is that Bale's been side-lined in favor of the supporting cast.

JC: "What annoys me is the people who praise the realism of the films, and then turn around and say "They should do Killer Croc" or "They should do Man-Bat". Why not Egghead, then, for God's sake? Or King Tut."

If Lynch can make a movie about the Elephant Man, why not Killer Croc?

Undercover: I still don't see why Commissioner Gordon's family needed to be in the film.

twicks: Watchmen looks kind of like what I expected out of TDK.

comment #49

ElstonGunnAICN says ...

Craptastic, indeed I can. He's lonely, eager and full of Oliver Stone-and-pizza anecdotes.

Actually, I'll only see a part 3 if the villain is The Bookworm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTiFuw9lwss&feature=related

comment #50

Count Thread says ...

Just got back. Outstanding in every way. I've hated so many movies lately, and flat-out skipped plenty, but was waiting and hoping this would pay off.

Excellence. Not just excellent-- excellence.

Ledger is a lock, and deservedly so. The GF walked out and turned to me to say how much of a damn shame he's dead. I always liked the guy, but TDK shows what kind of trajectory he was on-- with that talent, he would have been a force to reckon with for decades to come.

BTW, I loved Batman Begins, but this was an improvement in every way. LOVED the use of Chicago-- to have a real city, without CGI clocktowers and spires and all that crap, made this movie. The truck chase on Lower Wacker was one of the best action sequences in years (and watching Ledger cad it up is a treat).

And thank you to Chris Nolan for that direction. We're all losing ourselves over Ledger, but really, credit where credit is due-- that's damn fine direction going on. The movie is a sumptuous feast.

My only complaints? Either I had lousy sound in my very high-end theater, or the mixing was off. It was very hard to hear a lot of the dialogue in the beginning and in the end of the film. Guess I'll have to catch it somewhere else and cross-reference it.

Wow. Just surprised they knocked out of the park.

(One last bit-- who *doesn't* like Aaron Eckhart? The guy's had some shitty casting luck-- "The Core", ugh-- but he's increasingly a welcome presence. Hope he gets better and better work).

comment #51

Count Thread says ...

Oh, and I agree 100% with the suggestion for Nolan and company to walk away for a good long while. I *do* want to see an "older Batman" movie, and I think that letting this one stew for about a decade would be an excellent idea. I think Nolan, Bale and co. have the integrity to do that, but like Jeff, I think the studio will pressure them.

Because this movie is going to be huge, and deservedly so.

comment #52

JVD says ...

"Eckhart stole the show as Two Face"

DZ, are you on fucking crack? Solid performance, sure. But that's like saying Robert Duvall stole "The Godfather" from Marlon Brando.

Either you're a dickhead contrarian or you have some type of cognitive disorder. Maybe both. Either way, seek help.

comment #53

D.Z. says ...

JVD: The thing about Brando's character is that he was multi-faceted, and you could relate to him, while you really can't feel for Ledger's Joker, since the emphasis is on the caricature of him.

comment #54

Walter says ...

I have to say... Heath Ledger's Joker was top-notch, immortal, amazing. But when I left the theater, it was Aaron Eckhart's performance I was thinking about. Dent's short fuse, his sense of justice, the Two-Face character, that final scene--tragic stuff, and Eckhart knocked it out of the park.

Wasn't this planned as a trilogy anyway?

comment #55

D.Z. says ...

Walter: I really hate to say it, but I have a feeling it's gonna be an upset at the Oscars, with Eckhart getting the gold.

comment #56

BNick says ...

Just got back. I have to say I read this post before I saw TDK and thought Jeff was crazy, but it turns out he's not. They should end this rendition right here. It's come full circle and the third one would have to reinvent the wheel. Also, without saying too much, the public vs. private relationship between Batman and another major character would be too weird to build a plot around.

One other thing. All the complaints about it being too long. If TDK had ended things around the 1:50 mark, which would have been pretty cool as an Empire Strikes Back kind of deal, you would have left a lot of the third act, including a lot of Joker material, for the next film. And, sadly now that we've lost Heath Ledger, that would have been a total disaster.

comment #57

Jack Price says ...

I agree with D.Z. on this one. Not to place either performance into some sort of hierarchy, but Eckhart cannot be overlooked for what he was able to bring to Harvey Dent.

In a worse case scenario, had Eckart not sold the determination of the character and shown why people believed in him... while additionally giving him enough of an edge so we can see the darkness simmering from within... we'd all be fidgeting in our seats waiting for "Gotham's White Knight" to finally get disfigured so we could get to the good stuff.

To put it in clearer terms, we'd essentially be trapped rewatching Revenge of the Sith.

Also, StoneFan1, I'm a little confused how you missed the scene of mourning. It's definitely there. Maybe you zoned out?

(I guess it's no-holds-barred spoiler time? Right? I'll keep it vague for now...)

comment #58

Jack Price says ...

Also, when do you think the "NO COUNTRY FOR OLD BATMAN" comparisons going to start popping up?

comment #59

PoisonSkin says ...

nah. I think the third one was planned to have to Joker's trial and whatever else.

fuck it sucks he died.

comment #60

PoisonSkin says ...

then some weird warp..... ~Blong~ oh! now johnny depp is the joker.

comment #61

D.Z. says ...

Depp would be the Mad Hatter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Hatter_%28comics%29
Or maybe John C. Reilly or Philip Seymour Hoffman...

comment #62

D.Z. says ...

Actually, now that I think about it, Depp would work best as Clock King.

comment #63

JChasse says ...

I suppose Killer Croc could be a guy with a real bad skin condition, and Egghead could be a really smart guy who likes eggs three meals a day plus snacks, and Clock King could be some compulsive guy who is always early for appointments... but I suppose it could also turn into the rogues gallery of Dick Tracy, too (Holy Stunt Casting, Batman... let's get Dustin Hoffman to play Clock King! He was brilliant as Mumbles in "Dick Tracy'). These are not worthy protagonists, these are guys for Batman to capture during the credit sequence, if it were "that" kind of movie. (Always thought it would be cool if Spider-Man 3 had Spider-Man fight and capture the Rhino during the credit sequence)

And, DZ? Comparing "Elephant Man'" to Killer Croc is like comparing apples to... something that is the polar opposite of apples.

comment #64

StoneFan1 says ...

Jack Price - Yes,I remember the scene of Batman /
Bruce Wayne sitting in his penthouse, but I didn't
get that he was upset about Rachel's death, just
the overall situation. They needed to personalize
that scene FAR MORE. I still think it was a big time
mistake.

Now, I think the Clock King of "Batman : The
Animated Series" fame would be a good choice.
A guy who's sick of being walked on, sick of his
bad luck, tired of men he views as being below
himself in intelligence, moral standing, and ethics
getting ahead while he suffers as some low level
lawyer or bureaucrat. You could also bring in all the
corruption on Gotham City too. Mr. Nolan seems to
enjoy messing with time as well. I think it could be very interesting.

comment #65

MovieBob says ...

It's not so much the corporate mentality that drives franchises in this way, at least not exclusively - it's the nature of the material. Superhero comics aren't like books or history as movie-basis because they DON'T end. Novels have an ending, real-life people age and die. Superheroes are serialized - they go on forever, and the bad guys are always coming back.

MASSIVE, MASSIVE, MASSIVE SPOILER

That's why, when the dust clears about six months from now and the fans have had time to calm down, the NUMBER ONE reluctant complaint is going to be: "Damn it! They killed _______! Why do they always kill the bad guys!!??" Just watch. Most of them (I'm counting mystelf) will understand in the broad-strokes that it makes for a MUCH more satisfying movie-proper, but a big part of them wants to see Arkham Asylum perpetually full of captured bad guys who can always come back a few movies down the line.

That's why my audience (and others, I'm sure) went NUTS when Scarecrow turned up at the very start of this - because it's something they always wanted to see in a Batman movie (prior baddies still hanging around the margins) and so-far haven't. Break out the truth-serum, and what the fans REALLY want out of all this is, ten years from now, to be watching the sixth or seventh in-continuity Batman movie, with most of the bad guys still alive able to make trouble, with the continuity by now so thick you have to have near-memorized #1-5 to keep up (and for the 'current' Batman to be appearing in Justice League movies alongside the 'current' Superman, Wonder-Woman, etc.)

As for the "realism" of villians like Killer Croc or Man Bat (Man Bat would make a FANTASTIC movie, it writes itself: "bat-human hybrid monster killing people, who are they gonna blame?") remember: the previous movie had a psuedo-immortal Arab mystic and his army of ninjas, so the "acceptable" scale should be pretty damn high already.

comment #66

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

D.Z.,

On another thread you say TDK is a disappointment and you like Begins better, then here you say Eckhart should get the Best Supporting Oscar (don't even get me started on how insanely improbable that is...a Ledger nomination is 100x more likely and would still be a minor miracle), right after claiming that you preferred the Watchmen trailer to TDK (wha?)?

Either you have an entire frat house of people using your log-on here, or you have about four times as many personalities as Harvey Dent....

comment #67

Mumbleboy says ...

As far as a villian for the third installment, why has no one brought Bane? Is he, unbeknownst to me, reviled by the internet community or is it the unwieldy storyline of the breaking of batman and the rise of Azrael. Bane was the mental equal of batman but with the strength of a steroid fueled freak.

I would appreciate a response from anybody but, with all due respect D.Z..

comment #68

D.Z. says ...

Kane: Eckhart's the only reason I enjoyed the film, to be honest. Everyone and everything else fell flat. Also, I'm not sure how improbable a nomination is, considering the good will for "Thank You For Smoking".

Mumbleboy: Sorry, but I needed to respond. They brought Bane in Batman and Robin. He's a dumb plot device to get people to buy more comics, and nothing more. He's probably partly why that movie disappointed.

comment #69

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

D.Z. - TYFS received 0 Oscar nominations when it was released, and that was three years ago. No good will there.

Mumble - Bane sounds good to me, as I'm always in favor of introducing a villain (Bane, Catwoman) or two, if you must, that wouldn't repeat some of the "feel" (Riddler, Mad Hatter) of the Joker in TDK.

Someone mentioned Man-Bat earlier, and it's intriguing, but it would be a bit of a struggle to fit that into Nolan's "realistic" approach to the series thus far. But I'm not going to say it can't be done. I already learned that lesson when he improved on "Begins".

comment #70

Joel says ...

I hope they make at least one more of these. I mean, the first two have been great so why stop? Nolan & Company are on the right track - they're not thinking, "well, we need bigger and badder special f/x." I trust they can put together a very worthwhile third installment; even if it's not TDK, it can still be a great film. There's no shame in that.

comment #71

D.Z. says ...

Kane: True, but he did get more name recognition out of it. And that's usually the first step.

comment #72

Terry McCarty says ...

Craptastic wrote:
Something that's been on my mind all day is that this movie should be used as proof that the MPAA is on the take. How the holy hell was that film PG-13? Kirby Dick should do a follow-up doc based on an investigation into their "process" on this film alone.

As long as there's no bloodshed and the editing cuts away quickly, a lot of onscreen violence can fit within the confines of the PG-13 rating.

comment #73

D.Z. says ...

Terry: The only reason it's PG-13 is because there are no close-up shots of attacks connecting. Though the same can be said about most awful R-rated wire-fu wannabes nowadays, so I guess you have a point. I'm going to bet that if it glorified crime, then the MPAA would get moralistic and demand it be given an R.

comment #74

EOTW says ...

James Gandolfini for Penguin in the next film (but don't call him that, and no funny clothes or eyepiece, etc).

comment #75

D.Z. says ...

Terry: Speaking of barely squeaking by PG-13, I'm surprised what they got away with in one of the segments for Gotham Knight.

comment #76

Josh says ...

Why wouldn't you want this creative team to do it again or at least try?

Who are you to say stop?

comment #77

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comment #78

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