comment #1

Chicago48 says ...

It means the Dems didn't back him and deliver, and they will lose a lot of party members. This is a very important election. It's time for a change in Washington, I'm not sure Obama is up to it, because he's got the great wall of Washington to climb. But there's a new generation coming up, younger people and they want someone other than a "grandpa" in the White house. If Obama doesn't make it, there will be disillusionment and the oldsters would have won again.

comment #2

MovieBob says ...

"I wonder what he meant by kissing the Democrats goodbye? I would have said before you can kiss the Democrats goodbye if Obama hadn't been nominated. That would have been valid. if Hillary had triumphed it would have been....forget it. It'll just rile the PUMAs."

If Hillary'd have won, the only downside for you would be boredom (with no one "exciting" in the race, I mean.)

The notion that Obama's base (a different group entirely from the broader Democrat base) would've or WILL break off and do the third-party thing is preposterous. Obama's primary support-bubble, the swell that put him over the top, is comprised of college kids (and adults still in that relative mindset) who loved him for A.) his idealistic (yet now-being-jettisoned) unapologetically-leftward positions and B.) the chance to vote for a candidate who was cool, hip, positive and made them feel cool, hip and positive by reflection (i.e. the "oooh! A black president! I'd be voting for HISTORY!!" vote.) If he hadn't won, they wouldn't have revolted - they'd just have gone back to "not caring" about politics.

And before everyone jumps on me for "B," please... you're really going to deny that the historic possibility represented by his being black has ANYTHING to do with his popularity? C'mon, we both know that's nonsense. Barack Obama as a white guy is John Edwards - remember him? Not only will I ACKNOWLEDGE this, I don't happen to think there's anything WRONG with it. Why is it a bad thing for wanting to see a black president to influence your decision? I'd say it's one of the best "big picture" reasons to vote for him: Think of what it would represent in terms of a new image for the country, what it would mean for hundreds of minority children to FINALLY get four years of concrete, absolute proof that they CAN in fact get that far. There are few laws he could pass that would have a more overall-positive effect on the culture than the simple act of being who he is as he says his "I solemnly swear..."

Ahem. In any case, Redford is oldschool and knows the game - but get real: He wants to see a Democrat win, period. If Hillary was the candidate, he and 90% of the "anyone but the Republican" Democrat base would be doing the same song and dance except "change" would be a wink-wink metaphor for being non-male instead of non-white.

comment #3

D.Z. says ...

Bob: "If Hillary'd have won, the only downside for you would be boredom"

The other downsides would include the country being further NAFTA-ized and a war on Iran...

"Obama's primary support-bubble, the swell that put him over the top, is comprised of college kids (and adults still in that relative mindset) who loved him for his idealistic (yet now-being-jettisoned) unapologetically-leftward positions "

So ending the war is no longer leftist?

"B.) the chance to vote for a candidate who was cool, hip, positive and made them feel cool, hip and positive by reflection (i.e. the "oooh! A black president! I'd be voting for HISTORY!!" vote.)"

Yes, we just like him because he's black. We don't care about the fact that he actually addresses our problems, such as price-gouging from universities, or the lack of long-term professional jobs, because they've been sold to the lowest bidders.

"If he hadn't won, they wouldn't have revolted - they'd just have gone back to "not caring" about politics."

No, we'd vote for whoever was left, because we're not stupid. It's the boomers who threw us under the bus for tax breaks.

"Barack Obama as a white guy is John Edwards - remember him?"

What? Did Edwards suddenly vote and speak out against the war when he was running in 2004? Did he carry as many rural states as Obama?

comment #4

62Lincoln says ...

Suddenly, it's a statistical dead heat: http://www.newsweek.com/id/145737

WTF?

comment #5

MovieBob says ...

D.Z.
"Yes, we just like him because he's black. We don't care about the fact that he actually addresses our problems, such as price-gouging from universities, or the lack of long-term professional jobs, because they've been sold to the lowest bidders."

No, many more of you than will admit it like him PARTIALLY because he's black, and being able to say you cast a vote for the historical First Black President is appealing. Y'know what else? More of McCain's voters than will admit it like HIM partially because he's a tuff-old-guy type and they dig the idea of having "In The Line of Fire"-era Clint Eastwood as president. Y'know what else? TONS of people voted for Hillary primarily because she's a woman, SCADS of people voted for Bush because he wears a cowboy hat, and ethnic Irish and Italian Catholics on the east coast STILL worship the Kennedys in large part because JFK was the first Catholic president.

What's so taboo about just admiting this? One of the BEST arguments for Obama as president is that the presidency is at least in-part a figurehead position - a "mascot" for country, if you like - and the occupation of said mascot-spot by an African American would be a HUGE sea-changing moment: The man representing the U.S. at the Olympics, at international summits, all over the news for the next 4 to 8 years would be black... a living symbol of triumph over our dark racial history. No longer would it be merely a WISH when parents and teachers would tell minority children that they can grow up to president. What else can you GARAUNTEE that Obama or any other candidate would do once elected that'd be more positive than that?

comment #6

D.Z. says ...

Bob: "No, many more of you than will admit it like him PARTIALLY because he's black, and being able to say you cast a vote for the historical First Black President is appealing."

If that were the case, we would've voted for Jackson and Chisholm...

"More of McCain's voters than will admit it like HIM partially because he's a tuff-old-guy type and they dig the idea of having "In The Line of Fire"-era Clint Eastwood as president."

That's because they're in denial about the war being a mistake, and they think that McCain will somehow make up for Bush.

"TONS of people voted for Hillary primarily because she's a woman,"

I'm also guessing because they liked her husband...

"SCADS of people voted for Bush because he wears a cowboy hat,"

They voted for him, because they hate gays and Clinton having oral sex.

"and ethnic Irish and Italian Catholics on the east coast STILL worship the Kennedys in large part because JFK was the first Catholic president"

Or maybe it's because he made them more respectable and less hated by bigoted Protestants...

"What's so taboo about just admiting this? One of the BEST arguments for Obama as president is that the presidency is at least in-part a figurehead position - a "mascot" for country, if you like - and the occupation of said mascot-spot by an African American would be a HUGE sea-changing moment: The man representing the U.S. at the Olympics, at international summits, all over the news for the next 4 to 8 years would be black... a living symbol of triumph over our dark racial history. No longer would it be merely a WISH when parents and teachers would tell minority children that they can grow up to president. What else can you GARAUNTEE that Obama or any other candidate would do once elected that'd be more positive than that?"

I agree with you about the positive image thing, but it's not the reason we picked him. He speaks to certain segments of voters better than any other Dem candidate in recent years.

comment #7

tug says ...

"I wonder what he meant by kissing the Democrats goodbye?"

Actually, unless the left gets their open boarders and meets everyone crossing over from Mexico with IWW signup sheets, they're going away soon anyways. Red states are where the higher birthrates are. Your urban lefties aren't having kids at the same rate the Christian fundies are. Some even hold this up as a virtue, in that they aren't bringing another energy consuming poluter into the world. Live however makes you happy, but democracy is about mob rule, and the fundies are growing a bigger mob right now.

comment #8

D.Z. says ...

tug: I think it's the opposite situation, considering the fundies are losing financial support and credibility, every time they open their mouths.

comment #9

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comment #10

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