comment #1

Indeed says ...

So, Jon Voight is not to be trusted (and potentially strung up by his genitals whilst being beaten with a crowbar)...yet Barbara Streisand is a pure oasis of shrewd political commentary?

comment #2

Indeed says ...

Oh, and hopefully the powers that be will grant Streisand with numerous Oscar caliber movie roles as a thanks for being in Obama's corner.

comment #3

The InSneider says ...

Jeff, I'm sorry, but this post shows how out of touch you really are. I haven't seen American Teen yet but just because those kids aren't voting doesn't mean they are donkeys. I am not voting and do not plan on ever voting. Maybe one day when I'm your age but right now, and for the foreseeable future, no way. And just so you know, I'm 24, white, Jewish, from an upper middle class East Coast family, educated at NYU (the most liberal, full of activists/protesters college in the world) and now an editor at one of the trades. I am exactly the sort of person who is expected to want to vote but I couldn't give a shit. I read you blog every day but I never read any post of yours that concerns politics because it bores the shit out of me. Politicians are all out for themselves. The mud-slinging process leading up to the actual election is sickening. I prefer to stay out of it entirely and wash my hands of the whole dirty affair. Anyone who gets riled up about politics is frankly, an idiot, because there is nothing you can do about anything. Your singular vote means absolutely jack shit. It's a waste of time to go to the polls. And that's how I feel at 24. Call me ignorant or naive or stupid or crazy but just because I have the privilege to vote doesn't mean I have to do it everytime the opportunity comes along. Sometimes abstaining silence is the best way to exercise your opinion.

comment #4

Matthew Lucas says ...

Don't worry...I'm at least one Gen-Yer who will be at the polls with bells on to cast my vote for Barack Obama. I've already done it once in the NC primary, can't wait to do it again.

comment #5

LauraReeling says ...

So Barbra (and yes, that's how she spells it) is aging, born in 1942, but Voight, born in '38 doesn't get an age mention?

comment #6

LYT says ...

"Sometimes abstaining silence is the best way to exercise your opinion."

Why not vote third-party?

If everyone who didn't vote were to vote for the same independent candidate, that person could win. Ask Jesse Ventura.

Also, InSneider, your vote very much does matter in local elections and on propositions -- the Christian Right figured that out a long time ago, which is why evolution in schools is still controversial.

comment #7

Mgmax says ...

This is like a Monty Python sketch in which the expert talking heads are labeled on screen as "Dr. Barbra Streisand," "Dr. Mitzi Gaynor," etc.

comment #8

Walter Sobchak says ...

From that same Politico interview came this nugget of wisdom from the esteemed brain of Babwah:

(Question): "How do you think the election will play itself out over the next four months? Do you think the subject of race will continue to be a factor?"

(Her Answer): "As we head toward November, I think the race will continue to be close — although I hope I am wrong. But this country likes tight races and I am afraid it will ultimately come down to which campaign turns out the most voters on Election Day."

Brilliant. Just....brilliant.

comment #9

Muttley Laugh says ...

"So Barbra (and yes, that's how she spells it) is aging, born in 1942, but Voight, born in '38 doesn't get an age mention?"

I take it you're new here.

comment #10

BurmaShave says ...

Say what you will about its merits, but I picked it up this morning, and Voight's Op-Ed is a tight piece of writing.

comment #11

Michael says ...

Wells,

A non-vote isn't a counter-balance to a vote for Obama. Would you rather have the rural under 25s not voting, or 'votin' fer McCain cuz they don't want no Negro President'? Obama will win in a walk...and people will have to confront just how far we've come in race relations as a country. No thanks to the boomers, et al.

comment #12

frankbooth says ...

Mirajeff,

You're ignorant, naive, stupid and crazy.

But most of us already knew that.

comment #13

ryanv says ...

ugh. I'll just be glad to get all of these ridiculous aging Boomers pushed aside.

comment #14

Schmoozer says ...

Wow! Poor Insneider, who hasn't seen Swing Vote and understood the IMPORTANCE of VOTING and of voting as an INFORMED voter...Actually, film ain't so bad! Stole from Face in the Crowd and is lowbrow as hell but fun. And that message -- EVERY VOTE COUNTS! O.K. Just give me Obama with Hil and ya got me!

comment #15

MDOC says ...

Everyone knows that the under 25 set leans left. The bean counters always tell you if they come out, they can mean the difference, yet they never do. It's comical. I guess Vote or Die doesn't have as much ring to it as Engaged and Underaged.

Is it official that a vote for McCain is a vote for racism yet? Or are we still a few months away from that? Keep me posted...

comment #16

Joshua Mooney says ...

"Upper middle class"? Wow, I haven't seen that as a self-description in some time. PLU just say "middle class."

comment #17

C-PhreekII says ...

The InSneider - the irony is that you have been manipulated into thinking that way by the Right and instead of making some comment about the process, you are instead doing EXACTLY what they wanted you to do all along.

Walter Sobchak thing is, what she is saying is not as obvious as it sounds. She's talking about base versus general, undecided voters. Reagan was not elected by the base, George W. Bush was. When she says "I'm afraid it will ultimately come down to.." she is talking about the idea that there is defeat in the idea that your guy (we assume for her Obama) won simply because you turned out your base.

As opposed to someone winning because they appealed to larger chunk of those voters that aren't registered with either party. A view that I share, because it makes it more likely that new policies and changes can come about.

comment #18

quitstaringatme says ...

I'm more or less with InSneider, but agree that you should vote for a third party candidate or something. More than half the country doesn't vote, apathy is not a voice that's being heard. I'm 25 and I've voted for Nader the last two elections, and love how angry that makes democrats. I just wanted decriminalized pot.

comment #19

Chicago48 says ...

What will save Obama is getting out the Black, Hispanic, young and hip white vote. If he has to depend on the majority white to vote for him, he's out of luck. He's going to need the African immigrant, the Caribbean immigrant, the Latino immigrant, the inner city Black young and old, and the young hip white voter to make it. Because believe me when that curtain is pulled, established White America is voting for McCain. Regardless of what his position is or where the country is or how he bumbles through the debates. And believe me he will bumble through the debates. But no matter, look who they voted in two times before.

comment #20

Mgmax says ...

"What will save Obama is getting out the Black, Hispanic, young and hip white vote."

Then he's doomed. Those are the top non-voting groups. As John Kerry recently proved.

comment #21

chappiesan says ...

>>>I was hoping I'd never have to use the term "Generation of Shame" ever again. GenY had better watch its ass.

When was the first time? I'm assuming you used it on the Baby Boomers.

comment #22

Richardson says ...

"Sometimes abstaining silence is the best way to exercise your opinion."

I'm not going to go after your redundant language, or your possible misuse of words... I understand the point you're trying to make, so I'd rather respond to that.

Not voting is the best way to make sure that your displeasure with the choices you are given will never be heard. Since you've never voted, you obviously don't realize that "None of the above" does not register. The only way that you *can* express displeasure with the choices of the Big Two is to vote for a third party.

If enough people who feel the way you do vote for the third party that comes the closest to your values, then the Big Two would realize, "hey, there's an untapped vein of voters that we can get to if we just re-align our positions to be in line with them." Because, for all intents and purposes, there are no politicians who are truly out for the greater good. They all do whatever they can to get votes.

Therefore, if you do not vote, they have no reason to care about what you think. If you automatically vote for one party or the other, they also don't care what you think, because you're not going to change anyway. They court "swing" voters who might go either way, or might go third party.

Think about it. The only chance that a politician will ever do anything to address what you want the politician to address is if you take a half hour and vote for somebody who says things that you would like to have happen. If that person can get a decent percentage of the vote -- hell, even 2% of the nationwide vote could have a major impact on an election -- then do it again in four years.

comment #23

The InSneider says ...

Honestly, I'm not even sure what the fuck right and left means. I know I drink and drive (not together mind you) with my left hand, and I jerk off and wipe my ass with the right. I know crazy people are right-wing so I guess I'm on the left??

LYT, who cares about local elections? Are you fucking kidding me? By the way, great job covering the Con for DHD. Nicely done.

Frank Booth, you're hilarious. Please continue to breathe.

Schmoozer, every vote doesn't count. When a national election comes down to one vote you let me know. Outside of Swing Vote, of course.

Mooney, what do you want me to say, I'm filthy rich? My parents aren't millionnaires but I'd say mid-six figures is upper middle class.

C-Phreek, clearly you are fucking insane.

QuitStaring at Me, EXACTLY! The only way I'd get off my ass to vote is if one of the two major candidates (it's completely pointless voting 3rcd party) endorsed pot legalization. That way I don't have to be all paranoid if I'm driving around with it. Then again, I live in W. Hollywood so it's not like that's a crime or anything.

Bottom line: Politics are for morons. I am proud of not giving half a shit. Just like Andrew Garfield in Lions for Lambs. Voting is a waste of time. Fuck MTV and rocking the vote. Screw all the other nonsense of people telling you oh, we don't care who you vote for, as long as you do it. My one vote DOES NOT MATTER and you're crazy if you think it really does. I'd be better off spending that hour it takes to vote passing out spare change to the bums in front of the 7/11 near my apartment. That is what would make me a better person, not voting for a guy I'll never meet or have anything to do with. And no I don't know anyone who has died in Iraq. Maybe if I did I'd think differently but to me it's no different than a disaster in another part of the world. Tragic sure. I'll give it a sad thought while I'm reading the paper with my Apple Jacks. Beyond that, it doesn't affect me so I don't really care. I have more passion (and venom, in this case) in my body for the Beverly Hills Chihuahua trailer. What do you want me to do? Apologize? I think not. Stick to movies Wells and leave the politicking to Politico, whatever the fuck that shit is.

comment #24

The InSneider says ...

There will never be "Enough people" however many that may be, for 3rd party to win. Not in my lifetime anyway. If it makes you feel better though Jeff, if I had to vote, if there was a gun to my head, I'd vote Obama. I am from Massachusetts after all.

comment #25

chappiesan says ...

>>>Beyond that, it doesn't affect me so I don't really care.

That's a big fucking problem. Drop the ego and start thinking how the situation in thie country is affecting other people who are in positions you may be in at some point. Cost of college tuition? Who care you already graduted. Just wait till your daughter goes. No health care? Doesn't matter, you're healthy. Just wait till you feel a pain in your side, you get rushed to the hospital in an ambulance, and an er doc that tells you you have early stage liver cancekidney stonesr, something very common and easily treatable at the cost of $3,000. No public transportation? Who cares, you drive. That's fine, but will you when gas reaches $8 a gallon and it costs you three hours of your daily salary just to drive to work each day.

Get a grip, dude. I'm really sorry that pot legalization isn't on the agenda, but look past yourself and find another issue that means something to someone else, something you can feel passionate about. If you can't think of one, then all that good pot youre smoking is going to waste.

comment #26

Mgmax says ...

And remember, he edits other writers.

Walter Sobchak, don't you realize that she was in fact offering a state by state analysis based on past voting trends? They don't call her the Michael Barone of Malibu for nothing.

comment #27

D.Z. says ...

Sneider: "And just so you know, I'm 24, white, Jewish, from an upper middle class East Coast family, educated at NYU (the most liberal, full of activists/protesters college in the world) and now an editor at one of the trades. I am exactly the sort of person who is expected to want to vote but I couldn't give a shit."

NY's a blue state, so you're not really special, to be honest. But hey, if you enjoy toxic air from the WTC, that's your problem.

"I prefer to stay out of it entirely and wash my hands of the whole dirty affair."

Not being active is construed as a form of consent.

"Anyone who gets riled up about politics is frankly, an idiot, because there is nothing you can do about anything."

So those civil rights and female protesters who demanded the right to vote are idiots, too?

"LYT, who cares about local elections?"

Given that they tried to screw us out of rent control in our state, I'd say enough people, if the issue's relevant.

"Schmoozer, every vote doesn't count. When a national election comes down to one vote you let me know. "

How about 2,000 in Florida?

"The only way I'd get off my ass to vote is if one of the two major candidates (it's completely pointless voting 3rcd party) endorsed pot legalization."

You can't expect to legalize pot if you let people who think it's ok to ban birth control win.

"I'd be better off spending that hour it takes to vote passing out spare change to the bums in front of the 7/11 near my apartment. That is what would make me a better person, not voting for a guy I'll never meet or have anything to do with."

Voting for someone who can do more than just give them change is what makes you a better person.

Michael: "Would you rather have the rural under 25s not voting, or 'votin' fer McCain cuz they don't want no Negro President'?"

Anyone in that age range more likely to vote for McCain or Obama pr1obably has a similar intolerance to rap as that guy from Oasis or is an elitist like Alanis.

quit: I don't blame you for voting Nader, since I did at least once, but this one actually matters.

Chicago: I think the white people who still have homes in November will vote McCain, while everyone else will vote Obama.

Mgmax: Kerry was ineffectual in general.

comment #28

D.Z. says ...

chappie: "Cost of college tuition? Who care you already graduted. "

Forget cost. How about lack of availability of jobs to pay off the cost?!

comment #29

The InSneider says ...

Gang, all I was trying to do is illuminate to Mr. Wells that it's not just Midwest teenagers in documentaries who don't care about politics. There are well-educated young people, people with good jobs making decent money, who also don't care enough to get involved. I'm not saying you shouldn't get involved cuz it's a waste of time in general. I'm saying, personally, I don't see the point. I don't see why people, including Gruver, get so riled up about politics. It just doesn't make sense to me. The only things I care intensely about are movies and sports and friends and family. I could lead a content life never knowing who my President is or what he/she stands for. I mean, as long as Adolf Hitler doesn't take over the country, I just try and sit back and enjoy the ride. And maybe, just maybe, I was a little offended at Jeff calling people donkeys if they don't care enough to vote. And so as not to be a hypocrite, I apologize for calling people who do care about politics morons. Cuz you're not. They're all actually highly intelligent people. But I'm not seeing how all this collective intelligence is actually helping people. I just see both sides calling each other names and slinging dirt and I find it sad and pathetic that thesre are our country's leaders, or the people supporting the leaders. Why can't David Palmer be real?

comment #30

Mgmax says ...

David Palmer was a terrible president. Always did the most highminded thing that allowed him to be the most pompous blowhard-- and it nearly always brought the world to the brink of destruction.

Logan in '08!

comment #31

D.Z. says ...

Sneider: "There are well-educated young people, people with good jobs making decent money, who also don't care enough to get involved."

And they're usually the ones who end up avoiding drafts.

"I mean, as long as Adolf Hitler doesn't take over the country, I just try and sit back and enjoy the ride."

How about the grandson of one of his followers?

comment #32

Dave Polands Gut says ...

I hope Babs comes out and campaigns everyday. loud and clear. Shouting to the rafters.

Shes good for 10% points the other way

comment #33

Mgmax says ...

Obama's flirting with slavery reparations. Know what that would accomplish?

"I, John McCain, solemnly swear..."

comment #34

bluefugue says ...

>I prefer to stay out of it entirely and wash my hands of the whole dirty affair.

As you like, but don't expect to be unaffected by it. Politics can come around to bite people in the ass whether or not they are interested in it.

comment #35

ketut says ...

>

Spoken like a true 20something American. When do plan on growing up?

Does your family that you care for ever talk about how the economy affects them? Do your friends have the high paying jobs like you to be able to afford the big screen TV and the PS3?

Saying politics doesn't affect you is really being an ostrich. You aren't looking close enough, but that's fine you are not alone. Many people choose to keep their head in the sand, it's easier. We have complicated lives, we work hard and staying informed takes work. I understand that, but at some point you need to realize what you do makes a difference ( Wow, I just became an old fart) and I know I can't change your opinion, but believe me I was once there too.

*getting off soapbox*
Thanks for letting me vent.

comment #36

ketut says ...

The only things I care intensely about are movies and sports and friends and family. I could lead a content life never knowing who my President is or what he/she stands for.

Crap, my quotes from InSchnieder didn't come through in that last post.

comment #37

Richardson says ...

"not voting for a guy I'll never meet or have anything to do with."

The argument that the person who runs the government, writes the laws, controls the country, etc., has nothing to do with you is beyond specious and into the realm of pure stupidity. I can't argue with "one vote doesn't matter". But "The president has no connection to me" is stupid stupid stupid.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though, because you're young enough that you've only been an adult under one president. Wait until there's a new one, give it a year, and see how much has changed. (For instance, in the first year, Bush initiated massive federal tax cuts. In order to pay for them, he cut a lot of spending, so the state and local taxes had to be raised to make up for it. So, after a year of Bush and his "tax cuts", I was paying more out of my paycheck week to week.)

You really shouldn't be proud of being ignorant of how things affect you.

"There will never be "Enough people" however many that may be, for 3rd party to win."

Well, duh. If a third party had enough support to win, then, by definition, they would not be a third party. Whichever party they had eroded would be. That's just common sense.

But the point of voting 3rd party should not be to win. The problem is, too many third party supporters don't get that; they just want to win, and when they not only don't win but don't come close, they become disillusioned. So no third party has long-term support over multiple elections. And that's the problem.

Voting third party is the *only* way to register your distaste with the two candidates you are offered. I know you want to believe (as you stated) that not voting sends a powerful message but, the truth is, they don't give a shit. But if a large group of people pick a third party -- say, a pro-pot legalization party -- and vote for that candidate in one election... well, nothing happens. The Big Two dismiss that as a fluke, because they have so much entrenched "wisdom" about what voters want. But if all that support can stick with the candidate or the party for a second election, suddenly there's a "movement", and they look into the movement and try to figure out how little they would have to do to be able to exploit the movement for votes.

For instance, this is how abortion became such a big wedge issue. at first, abortion was a crazy demand radical feminists had. Then, it got gradually normalized, and had more and more support, until the politicians couldn't ignore it. This took at least a decade of concentrated effort, with several decades of work building up to it. (It don't happen overnight, Junior.) But, eventually, it was legalized, because legalization had such strong support.

And then, the backlash movement started. Suddenly, pro-life people had something to rally behind. And a lot of uber-religious people ran for office and garnered relatively massive support based solely on being "pro-life". So, again, politicians looked into it, found a contingent of voters who would vote purely based on that issue, and they adjusted their strategies accordingly.

The vast majority of politicians don't care *what* policies they enact. If enough people are pushing for something, they'll enact it just to get the extra support.

If you want pot legalization, don't complain about the fact that no Democrat of Republican will come out in favor of it; explore the situation a little bit, and figure out a way to make it happen. The more you do that, the more you realize how many ways politics does affect you, even with your head buried way down deep in the sand.

comment #38

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "Obama's flirting with slavery reparations. Know what that would accomplish?"

Clinton apologized for slavery, and still managed to have a good approval rating, so...

comment #39

bb says ...

"What will save Obama is getting out the Black, Hispanic, young and hip white vote"

What if they are only acting hip? What if they are only leading seemingly hip lives, not wearing crocks etc?

What if in reality they aren't really hip and don't vote the way they are supposed to?

What if the hipsters are in reality "The Man"?

comment #40

D.Z. says ...

bb: "What if in reality they aren't really hip and don't vote the way they are supposed to?"

Then they're no worse than fiscal conservatives who vote for trillion dollars in debt.