Boiled Down
I was talking with friends last night about the Russia-vs.-Georgia fighting, and I wasn't really up to speed on the basics. I'd like to find an abridged online version of "The Russia-Georgia-Abkhazia-South Ossetia Conflict for Dummies." Here's my own attempt in lieu of this, running a little less than 500 words.
Georgian soldiers ducking a bombardment in the Georgian city of Gori, 50 miles from Tblisi. (N.Y. Times photo by Reuter's Gleb Garanich.)
I know that Georgia, a democracy governed by 41 year-old president Mikheil Saakashvili (who speaks fluent English, French, Russian and Ukranian), has long been at odds with Russia, which seems to strongly resent Georgia's secularism and various western-leaning alliances, including its interest in joining NATO and, down the road, gradual access to the European Union.
And I understand that Russia supports/has supported Abkhazia and South Ossetia in their efforts to secede from Georgia. Abkhazia and South Ossetia "broke away" from Georgia in the early 90s and have been "de facto independent" ever since, and that this is more or less the central issue in Georgian-Russian relations.
Today's N.Y. Times story, written by Anne Barnard and reported by two others, says that the conflict between Russia and Georgia seems to "developing into the worst clash between Russia and a foreign military since the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979." And that at least 1500 people have been killed within the last 48 hours.
It's obviously not a mano e mano-stype situation -- it' s Russia, South Ossetia and Abkhazia vs. Georgia with western authorities stand off to the side and more or less saying, "Hey...not nice for people to die! Stop it!" I know that Georgian troops have killed some Russians, and that Russian troops have been pouring into South Ossetia and also that Russias have been shelling and bombing Georgia, including areas near its capital of Tibilisi.
Devastation and death in Gori, Georgia. (N.Y. Times photo by Reuter's Gleb Garanich.)
I know also that Georgia would like its presumed western allies to step in and do something in a vigorous diplomatic vein. I understand that two days ago Russian troops entered South Ossetia after Georgian troops attacked and killed 12 Russian peacemakers. But I don't really understand why Georgia troops were in Ossetia in the first place.
The Times story reports that "exhausted Georgian troops, their faces covered with stubble, said they were angry at the United States and EU for not coming to Georgia's aid. A Georgian major who was driving an armored truck out of South Ossetia and who gave his name as Georgy, said, 'Over the past few years I lived in a democratic country, and I was happy. Now America and the European Union spit on us.'"
I've also read in the Times that "neither side [has shown] any indication of backing down." And that Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has declared that "war has started," and that Saakashvili has accused Russia of a "well-planned invasion" and has mobilized Georgia's military reserves.
Posted by Jeffrey Wells on August 10, 2008 at 10:26 AM
comment #1
mutinyco says ...
Very simple. Russia built up its country's hatred of Georgia same as the US did with Iraq for a number of years, all the while preparing for a reason to invade.
Now, it's executing its plan.
Posted by mutinyco at August 10, 2008 12:26 PM
comment #2
Mgmax says ...
Seems to me you missed both the main points.
1) Russia wants all its old territories back. It's fomenting the breakup of countries that broke away from it, the better to take them back piece by piece, or at least weaken them to where they can't be rivals with, say, their own policies toward America and Europe.
2) Russia wants to dominate Europe by controlling its oil supply. The pipeline through Georgia and Turkey, which Russia tried to bomb yesterday, is a major impediment to that. If Russia controlled it by controlling the government in Georgia, it would be a major asset in that.
In other words, kiddies, THIS IS WHAT A FRICKIN' "WAR FOR OIL" LOOKS LIKE.
Posted by Mgmax at August 10, 2008 1:00 PM
comment #3
Teacher's Pets says ...
Certainly, Russia doesn't like Georgia's desire to enter NATO and expand a semi-hostile military alliance on its borders (which the US swore wouldn't happen)...
The question is what the Georgian president was thinking when he launched the attack on S. Ossetia in the first place, shelling the crap out of the regional capital and Russian peacekeepers, apparently hoping he could dominate quickly and the West would back Russia off. Sounds like a dumb gamble to me.
Posted by Teacher's Pets at August 10, 2008 1:14 PM
comment #4
BurmaShave says ...
At the risk of going DZ on the most serious thread possible, we lost another:
http://current.com/items/89188719_isaac_hayes_dies
Posted by BurmaShave at August 10, 2008 1:18 PM
comment #5
Teacher's Pets says ...
And to respond to Mgmax, while there are certainly elements of "great game"-smanship in play here, let's not make it sound like Russia's some Nazi-era Germany, spreading its inkblot across the globe (not that we shouldn't abhor the decline of their democracy and their other miltary misadventures).
Every time a country in the Western hemisphere seemed or could be accused of alignment with Russia in the last fifty years, we overthrew their government, so it's not surprising that Russia would do the same to a nation on its most chaotic borders.
Posted by Teacher's Pets at August 10, 2008 1:30 PM
comment #6
mutinyco says ...
Mgmax-
Were you addressing me or Wells?
Cause I very much understand that. I was boiling it down further. As in, Russia's actions have nothing to do with defense or retaliation. They're executing their strategy.
It should also be noted that this was, in part, provoked by US support for Kosovo's claim of independence, while Serbia proper is a Russian ally.
That said, I'm not sure Russia intends to simply annex Ossetia. They've already sent ground troops into Georgia itself.
Posted by mutinyco at August 10, 2008 1:30 PM
comment #7
BurmaShave says ...
I believe Suibne is one of the porn bots who has achieved consciousness.
Posted by BurmaShave at August 10, 2008 1:50 PM
comment #8
Mgmax says ...
"And to respond to Mgmax, while there are certainly elements of "great game"-smanship in play here, let's not make it sound like Russia's some Nazi-era Germany, spreading its inkblot across the globe "
Can we make it sound like they're some Stalin-era Soviet Union? Because they pretty much are.
Posted by Mgmax at August 10, 2008 1:57 PM
comment #9
C-PhreekIX says ...
Suibne? Is that you supertaster? Your father wants to know where you put the good scissors. And be home for dinner by six. Whe're having pork chops and Stove-top.
Posted by C-PhreekIX at August 10, 2008 2:05 PM
comment #10
Bonifer says ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/weekinreview/10traub.html
Posted by Bonifer at August 10, 2008 2:09 PM
comment #11
Suibne's mom says ...
Sometimes you have a feeling about a child. I did the best I could. But every once in a while I would do something deliberately cruel. Once he asked for money to buy ice cream from the ice cream man. I gave him Canadian coins. He came back crying. He was hysterical. I tried to stifle my giggles.
Posted by Suibne's mom at August 10, 2008 2:30 PM
comment #12
Mgmax says ...
Meanwhile...
Jim Geraghty notes that the current reality has an "odd similarity to Tom Clancy's original Ghost Recon game, which had U.S. special forces secretly going into... T'bilisi, Georgia to deal with Russian invasion forces backed by ultra-nationalist hardliners. The "future date" of the 2001 game was... August 2008."
Posted by Mgmax at August 10, 2008 2:35 PM
comment #13
quitstaringatme says ...
Is this some kind of internet performance art? You guys are no MilkMan.
Posted by quitstaringatme at August 10, 2008 2:53 PM
comment #14
AndrewOwens says ...
New Russian President = immediate war with relatively peaceful neighbour. Putin wiped out Chechnya, now the new guy hits Georgia. The Russian public loves it and it solidifies the power base, shows strength to foreign powers, ensures the obediance of the military, etc. Going back, I think Afghanistan was a new president, also; whoever it was back then.
Posted by AndrewOwens at August 10, 2008 3:15 PM
comment #15
mutinyco says ...
So why then is Putin very publicly in command of the Russian operation?...
Posted by mutinyco at August 10, 2008 4:44 PM
comment #16
D.Z. says ...
"Today's N.Y. Times story, written by Anne Barnard and reported by two others, says that the conflict between Russia and Georgia seems to "developing into the worst clash between Russia and a foreign military since the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979." And that at least 1500 people have been killed within the last 48 hours."
I'm betting Bosnia myself. But hey, we "won" the Cold War, and now everything's peachy-keen. So thanks for that wonderful Iraq war which could have put a lid on another conflict on the scale of India and Pakistan, neo-cons.
Mgmax: "2) Russia wants to dominate Europe by controlling its oil supply. The pipeline through Georgia and Turkey, which Russia tried to bomb yesterday, is a major impediment to that. If Russia controlled it by controlling the government in Georgia, it would be a major asset in that. In other words, kiddies, THIS IS WHAT A FRICKIN' "WAR FOR OIL" LOOKS LIKE."
You forgot about our pipeline in Afghanistan.
Posted by D.Z. at August 10, 2008 6:58 PM
comment #17
D.Z. says ...
Sorry, I meant, thanks for that wonderful Iraq War which, if we didn't start, could have been used to put a lid on another conflict.
Posted by D.Z. at August 10, 2008 7:00 PM
comment #18
AndrewOwens says ...
Putin is now Prime Minister (having run the maximum term as President), Dimitri Medvedev is the new President (although Putin still pulls the strings and calls the shots). Medvedev is Putin's man.
That was a very George Smiley paragraph I just wrote. I wonder what's going on in the Circus right now...
Posted by AndrewOwens at August 10, 2008 7:32 PM
comment #19
bb says ...
As said before, Russia is looking to reclaim lost territories and this was the excuse they needed. An Oil Pipeline is at stake but more access to the Black Sea doesn't hurt.
I'm sure plans for similar actions in Ukraine are already in waiting.
Russia has a history of making big, bold plays like this. Sometimes they work fantastically and sometimes they blow up in their face. But it is their favorite way to do these things.
And their troops aren't nice. Ask the germans.
Posted by bb at August 11, 2008 4:01 PM
comment #20
D.Z. says ...
bb: Fortunately, Russia hasn't a war in, what, 150 years?
Posted by D.Z. at August 11, 2008 8:11 PM
comment #21
bb says ...
D.Z., I guess that would pass as clever (not honest of course) since, as everybody knows, Russia spent so much time as the core of the USSR but you could check with Chechnia not too long ago and see how those people felt, or if you were looking for a proper war, Japan right before WW1 in which Russia lost its ass.
And if you really cared, you could count all the wars that the USSR started, encouraged, abetted, whatever. Are you interested in a discussion or being clever?
Posted by bb at August 12, 2008 6:16 AM